OK boys,
I know Striker knows, But for the rest of you I'm soon to be wed to an amazingly beautiful Canadian Princess.  I know for a few years we will be here in Texas, But we have talked about moving to the great frozen North, And I gotta know What kinda toys can a Guy get up there.  So far I have learned that Glocks up there have thumb safeties similar to the 1911, But what kinda good stuff can a guy get up there?? Just for Further info, I will be looking into Law Enforcement up there if we so decide to move, So if there is any Law Enforcement only mumbo jumbo like there is here let me know.  Thanks all
Mike

i dont understand why you cant talk her into living in the us of a. i wouldnt move up there myself for all the molsen beer and deer meat in the world. but i guess you have your reasons. good luck with the marriage, job, and owning firearms up north.

Anything cool is most likely a restricted or prohibited weapon in Canada (ie. Mini-14, Ar-15, etc).  You may be able to keep these if you fill out the papers but I'm not sure. Check out http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/....and remember Canada sucks if your a gun lover

This is a bit long but here goes....

Guns in Canada are divided into four major classes and a bewildering assortment of a legally indeterminate number of sub-classes - experts estimate up to 6,000.  The major groupings are prohibited, restricted, non-restricted, and guns which don't require a license.  Full autos and silencers aren't allowed though there are some highly difficult and/or impossible exceptions.  Prohibited firearms include things like short barreled handguns and military pattern semiautos.  Individuals are not allowed to hold a prohibited license unless they've already got one.  The restricted license is for kewl toys like handguns and AR-15s and also covers non-restricted firearms.  Non-restricted firearms include everything from single shot 22s to Garands but the lines are quite arbitrary and illogical. The fourth major class is 'not a firearm' and requires no license - it includes things like some - NOT all - antique guns, line launchers, deactivated guns etc. You MUST learn the firearm laws if you hope to avoid arrest and/or seizure of all your guns.  Best way to study these laws is to join the NFA then call 1800-731-4000 and order a copy of the Firearms Act and the March 1998 Firearms Regulations (it's free).  Tape all calls to the authorities so you have the legal defense of 'official misdirection' if you are told to do something illegal.  I've lost count of the number of illegal things I've been instructed to do by those supposedly enforcing this law.  I would say get your responses in writing, but our firearm bureaucrats usually refuse to put it in writing because they are often wrong about our complex firearm laws.

A license and a registration certificate is or will shortly be required for all 'firearms' in Canada - the timing of this depends upon the classification of your gun.  Failure to show your papers (actually plastic cards) upon command will result in arrest and confiscation.

To get the broadest license available ('Restricted') you need to take the Canadian Firearms Safety Course and the Canadian Firearms Safety Course for Restricted Firearms.  About CAN$80 for the two courses - call the 1 800 731 4000 # to be hooked up with the instructors in your area (possibly even in the US?) and to order application forms for an restricted firearms license.  Fill 'em out, send 'em in with a signed passport photo and another $80 or so, wait anywhere from 2 months to a year with about six months being average.  You need to supply 2 character references who have known you for several years - a bit of a problem if you've just moved here.  Making a statement that is false or misleading on a firearm form or verbally to a firearm officer up here is rewarded by up to 5 years in jail.

Importing firearms is a hassle even for dealers.  Knowingly possessing a firearm without a license appropriate to its class is up to 10 years in the slammer.  Giving ammo to someone without a license - also a serious crime.  Locking your ammo in the same safe as your handgun - also a serious crime.  Placing your gun on a tailgate without unloading it - also a serious crime.  You get the idea.  Somewhere between hundreds of thousands and millions of Canadians refused to apply for a license in a mass display of civil disobedience.  All legal guns must be registered by 2003.  Again, join the NFA for the best information.  I should probably also reveal that I'm an NFA provincial director... [:)]

The laws often contain silly and confusing exceptions.  For example, 12(6) handguns are prohibited - but SOME are also 'antique firearms' and do not require a license... though not all pre-1898 12(6) handguns are considered 'antique firearms.'  Predictably, this is based upon caliber.  So, a .22LR is still 12(6) prohibited but a 44 Russian or .455 Webley pre-1898 revolver is an 'antique firearm and requires no license, registration certifiate, transport or carry permits though special transport rules also apply.  Pre-1898 Webley RIC anyone? Lawyers frequently make mistakes on these laws - contact a laywer and the NFA immediately, and (most important) SHUT UP. - DON'T SAY A WORD if you are arrested or interviewed regarding firearms.  Often people think they have committed no crime when they actually have, or the reverse may also be true.

Where in Canada are you moving to?


Where in texas are you moving from?


WANNA TRADE!!!!!!!!

Oh and function has nothing to do with the classifications - a mini 14 is non-restricted, an AR-15 is restricted and an HK33 is prohibited.

What does it mean "restricted"?

I just love that part.  It is pretty much true here.  A Mini-14 is not considered an 'assault rifle' because of it's appearance even though function and ammo are the same as an AR.  Follows this type of thinking.



Banned because of it's looks.  How freaking ridiculous.

Striker - the FAL is prohibited by order in council while the AR is restricted by order in council.  That's the legal reason why they differ in classification.  The 'thinking' behind the difference has been theorized to be rooted on several factors:  1) safety sear 2) There is a large body of competitive shooters who use the AR - it might be politically nasty for the Liberals to be seen as directly harassing legitimate organized shooting activites.(personally I think this one is sorta weak considering the rest of C-68..) 3) as a 'wups, we missed that one - now that we've found that that one has been um missed, we should immediately review other restricted/non-restricted guns so we can restrict/prohibit a few more' political strategy to be used at some future date.

Oh, and you CAN shoot things outside a range with an AR in some rare circumstances... self defence (good luck in court) AND if you have a little-known, very rarely granted authorization that allows the holder of said authorization to carry one restricted OR prohibited firearm while engaged in trapping activities.  Ergo, get a $10 trapping license, apply for the authorization to carry while trapping, and you just might get it.  Bring some snare wire with you and go 'sighting in my gun while scouting for trapping areas officer - here's my authorization' and 'harvesting fur bearers' at your leisure. Though I confess I don't know anyone who has yet been granted that authorization.  If you are refused the authorization and then choose to appeal their refusal to issue, that's one more troublesome and expensive court case thrown into C-68's path.  [-!-!-]

my god... it's more confusing that italian law!!!

I understood what is a "restricted" kind of weapon.

What's a "prohibited"???

We have:

1)Bellic weapons (full auto, AP, and so on)
2)Bellic type weapons
3)Common weapons
4)Blade weapons

for the 1) is not allowed in any case private ownership.
for the 2) also
for 3) and 4) is with licencing, and for the 4) there is only registration.

The 3) has three sub-categories:

3.1) Hunting
3.2) Sport
3.3) Common (whatever can't be classified in the first two)

the 3.1 you can own WITHOUT LIMIT OF NUMBER...

the AR15 (like a lot of other rifles) are classified in the 3.1

She has got to be a REAL type of SPECIAL woman for you to endure the restrictive Canadian laws, weather etc.
Think on this one real hard, eh??

Well I will be marrying a Canadian in Sept. And I will be moving to Canada also. For all the people who say why are you moving to Canada. I will tell you I get a %50 percent increase in pay. But anyways there are 2 cool laws regarding firearms. I believe you are still allowed to a get a folding stock for you mini 14,  Also I have seen 25 round Butler creek mags for the 10/22 for the High price of $19 Canadian or about $12 american. Just my 2 cents.


Six

Where am I moving I am moving to Windsor. Where did I see the mags at a gun shop on Manatoulin Island.


Six

The NFA supports Black Rifle owners just like owners of any other firearm from flintlock to full auto.  The Firearms Act aims at us all.

There is no requirement for an owner of restricted firearms to be a member of a range - IF the government considers that owner to be a collector and the firearms are all for the primary purpose of forming a part of a gun collection.  There may be some sort of unofficial grandfathering here, I don't recall... but I can confirm that this is the case for at least some of us 'cuz I recently acquired a black rifle having never belonged to a range in my life.  There were definitely no range membership requirements before C-68 as you could simply specify that you wanted the gun as part of a collection.  [pistol]

Yeah and according to this sweet lil honey in B.C. "In the summer we Fish and F*ck. In the winter we don't Fish"

Send some of them fine ladies south Striker or risk an invasion from the U.S.

All of your Babes are belong to us!!!!!!!!!


Hunter kidding of course!

Do something IRL and miss a page and a half of postings... sheesh where to start...

Anyways, I was away attending a debate on the merits of the spring bear hunt in Manitoba featuring Ross Spagrud of Prarie Gun Works and COHA fame stomping all he-double toothpicks out of animal lover Vickie Burns, Executive Director of the Winnipeg Humane Society.  Our side won eloquently, fairly, and very decisively.

To address the recent postings in this thread:
[pistol]
Boland:
Glock 23, registered but not short barrelled grandfathered.  So destroy the prohibited device barrel, replace it with an restricted-length one, and it is a non-prohibited restricted firearm - unless there is more to the story.  Did you talk to Dave Tomlinson?

NFA support for objectionable court cases?  You sound as though you might be a LEO, so you would be familiar with the concept of legal precedents.  If the worst scumbag on earth gets arrested, goes to court with a crappy defence, and gets an antigun judge, that decision can now be quoted or used against other gun owners until this law is repealed.  The merits of each case notwithstanding - and I'm not a lawyer nor am I familiar with those specific cases you mention - the precedents established in those cases affect everyone.  While it would be nice to have the government in power just repeal the d@mn law, I don't see that happening just yet.  So it behooves us to establish favorable precedents to work under in the meanwhile.

Transporting FN to a non-DND range: agreed, no obvious provision to do so in the law - but you can transport your FN to a field/gravel pit for 'trapping.'  Get a cheap trapping license, a special trapper's authorization to carry a prohibited firearm, and legally head for the bush to go bang bang trapping.

NFA anti-LEO?  No.  Anti-C-68, yes.  Police governed by Peel's principles are a necessary part of society and we need more gun owners in that profession.  It's obvious that gun owners are not yet a large political force within the policing profession in Canada - how else would you explain the recent Canadian Police Association and Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police votes to continue supporting the Firearms Act?  The CPA vote to continue support was even passed despite the government failure to meet their previously expressed conditions.

BTW most gun owners, due to their law abiding nature, have little contact with mainstream police as compared to the reams of time and contact they have with the gun cops under C-68. Exposure to the same antigun authorities - mostly politically selected police - on a regular basis tends to obscure the many fine deeds of cops who don't enforce C-68 full time.  C-68 all by itself, due to its complex and confusing nature which has apparently ensnared you and me both, is sufficient to bring policing into somewhat of a bad light as officers are simply not able to answer questions about basic legalities.  This is not the cops' fault - some parts of C-68 are too vague to give a yes or no answer.  Those parts will remain that way until many cases have been heard at the Supreme Court level.

(cont)

With regards to Jim's legal situation, if you are familiar with our legal system you'll know that it's downright dumb for a defendant to explain things prior to his or her day in court.  Can and will be used against you in a court of law, etc.  Only one side of this story has been publicized so far.  Wait for the rest of the story and then make your judgement based upon more complete information.

Fiscal accountability?  The organization was launched with a handful of people.  As any organization grows and expands, new needs and wants will surface.  The NFA has grown sufficiently that its constitution is presently being worked on with an eye to introducing audited financial statements on a regular basis.  You are invited to participate in this rather dry but necessary process.

There ARE elections voted on by the members IF there are enough bodies running for positions to cause a vote, as per the NFA constitution. I know this because I just ran for reelection as NFA MB Director.  Ballots were to be mailed in no later than the close of last month - announcements should be made shortly.  NFA Alberta also had an election recently.  If there is no vote in your region, I urge you to become more involved.  We need every pissed off person in Canada who is committed to fighting this law within the system.

[pistol]
Striker: I too am asked what club I belong to each time I buy a restricted firearm.  I tell them the NFA.  They say Oh, then I explain that I'm a collector and do not feel the need to justify my ownership with a range membership. It's always worked for me. My reasoning behind this is that then my 'collector' status is perhaps independent of any possible lapsed range membership.  I can't speak for everyone, but it works for me.  I don't disagree with Boland that non-membership in a range might cause problems getting an ATT, but at any rate I am now a member of a range regardless so this is something of a moot point.

[pistol]
Boland: C-68 doesn't affect restricted firearm owners??? I don't go for that one at all.  Did you know that if FRAS wishes to revoke your restricted firearm registration certificate, it's as good as a done deal?  Yep - you can't win the appeal because FRAS can invisibly, without notice to you, revoke your registration certificate - and since there has been an interruption in the registration certificate for that firearm, and it's restricted, no new registration certificate can be issued.  Catch-22.  Reference: Brian Robert Drader (me) vs Her Majesty the Queen, May 23 2001, 408 York Street, Winnipeg, the Honourable Judge Norton.
And you've just pointed out that if you own an FAL or other non-12(6) prohibited, now you apparently can't legally take it to the range.  What, I wonder, is up with that??

No flame taken - we must all hang together on this one or we'll surely all hang separately.

I bought my FAL in '91 and I too was asked what range I belonged to.  I responded that I was going to collect the firearm rather than target shoot with it for the above reasons.
Actually the target/collector argument boils down to six of one and half a dozen of the other - it's just another wedge issue that the government of the day can use to divide legitimate firearm owners by using the target/collector responses to separate equally deserving firearm owners into two arbitrary groups which can then be treated differently under the law.

As I understand the US NRA position - and I'm not an expert on this by any means - they support our rkba but are limited by their constitution to using their funds to lobby within the US?  Help me understand what they do up here.  I understand that they are one of the few groups who lobby for firearm owners at the UN table as an NGO, which is good.  Heston spoke at the BCWF dinner a little while ago.  Their infomercials reach us here on cable.  But if you have a problem with our laws, do they help?  Why are there no NRA booths at my local gun shows and firearm events?

Wow Guys, Thanks for all the info.  Because I was asked, I am moving from Austin, Texas to (I never can spell this right) Missaigua Canada.  Its going to be a few years, But I think a move up north will be good.  Striker, Sherri (the bride to be) was a cop for Toronto PD for a few years and she told me about the thumb safety on the Glocks.  I'm going to do more research on all the info and see what I can do about getting some new toys, But it looks like my current collection is gonna stay here in Texas with dad.

Well I know when I make the move I am going to leave my current collection here with my brother. I will only be be about 30 minuted from him and an hour from my club. Maybe someday I will go thru the proper channel so I can legally own firearms in Canada. Maybe get a mini 14 or Remington 700 VS for use in Canada.


Six

I just want to make a note to all the people who are bashing your national firearms groups. Just because you don't like a point they may have it is not a reason to turn your back on them. I am not sure about the organization that are in your country but you need to make them as big and strong as possible. They and your few progun politians are they only people you have fighting for you rights. I hate people who rip on an organization and don't write letters to their elected official then complain about stupid laws that are passed. What exactly did you do to prevent it. I am a member of National Firearms Association and I don't even live in Canada yet. Gun Control is not a local or state or even national problem, its as international epidemic. I sure you all heard the lines if we don't all hang together then for sure will hang separately. So write you elected officials and join your national orginizations.


Six

Boland: I had a closer look at the act etc & found some clarifying references.  

First, prohibited FALs apparently aren't covered by the trapping exemption (lawful occupation under FA S.20 at http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/cfm/ENGLISH/LEG/FA/0170000D.HTM#S020) though 12(6) prohibited handguns and restricted firearms are.  The distinction(s) between grandfathered prohibited, prohibited and restricted might also come into play here.  

I also found the place in the Firearms Act regulations where CFO's apparently derive their authority for occasional transport permits to ranges:
Special authority to possess regulations (Firearms Act) S. 14(1)Occasional basis allowance for transporting prohibited firearms other than prohibited handguns to the range:
http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/cfm/ENGLISH/LEG/FAREGS/0100000D.HTM#S014_01

...and another place in the Firearms Act Regulations from which CFOs apparently derive carte blanche authority to issue prohibited transport permits at their discretion:
Firearms Act Regulations: prohibited transport permits. (1) - OK as long as no safety threat?
http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/cfm/ENGLISH/LEG/FAREGS/0080000F.HTM

What a mess.

An assistant to my Liberal MP just phoned me about an hour ago - she refused to allow me to deactivate my FAL with the revoked registration certificate because the appeal period has not yet expired.  So... I think I'll file appeal on the basis that repealing valid registration certificates without notice and with no rational or purposive justification brings the administration of justice into disrepute.  It might be only a $200 gun, but if the gov't wants it that bad they can d-mn well pry if from under the reams of court transcripts it'll generate. [spank]

Canada:  "Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there."

[size=4]WOW![/size=4]  If I were a gun bigot I sure would feel a lot safer living in kanada, I mean with all those laws to protect me.  

Can I round up all these gun bigots, put 'em in camp's, then ship 'em on up to hoser land?!?!

Boland, here's your new mission.  We need you to stage the inprocessing area for all these anti's.  Then we'll....................

There are some good things up here. We can have all the pre ban stuff on post ban weapons. We can all have LEO stamped AR15s. We can short barrels on our long arms with no change to there class as long as (1) The barrel was made that length and (2) The overall length is at least 26". That means 14.5" ARs at the range. and 14" 870s in the woods. I can buy a pistol or ar or shotgun in a gun shop and leave with it in 45 min. Can you do that in all US states?

Moe - As a matter of fact I recently picked up a new LEO shorty.  OAL doesn't matter for an AR - as it's already restricted by OIC, sub-26" OAL by telescoping stocks or short but non-prohibited length barrels won't change an AR's class - it's still restricted.  [:D]  

However I've yet to shoot the new gun because 1) The registration certificate still hasn't arrived (over 2 months and counting) - I know, you don't technically NEED the physical certificate per se, BUT... 2) I'm still working on the paperwork required to get it to a place where I can legally fire it.  It has never taken me under 24 hours to complete a purchase and the process has taken several days on occasion - and that's AFTER a ONE YEAR wait for my license!!  

BTW see the January 19 2001 National Post Editorial for a description of my license application.  As a bit of a test, I used two gentlemen who had been charged with serious crimes as my character references on the license application.  You may have heard of one of them - he made worldwide headlines last year for allegedly threatening some Clintons and our Prime Minister.  No one checked the character references.  Hey, whaddaya expect from a half billion dollar gun control scheme, eh?

My FAL is presently residing with the local constabulary where it has nestled since being seized in a 1996 arrest for a paperwork crime the crown and I have since agreed I did not commit.  I can tell 'em it's deactivated, but unless I sneak in there with a welding torch one night, they're unlikely to fall for it.  [;)]  

My MP's office and the gun bureaucrats in question refuse to allow me to deactivate my firearm until the appeal period expires - at which point, in the absence of a court order as regards the disposition of the firearm, the gun bureaucrats could conceivably choose to attempt to destroy the FAL and require me to sue for compensation.  So, if I want to ensure any option of having the gun returned in any condition I have to appeal, thus extending my five year legal battle yet again.  

By the time my appeals are concluded, I figure that the attempt to take my gun will have cost Canadian taxpayers well over $10K per pound - win or lose.  Heck, I would have willingly sold it to them for that kind of $$$.

Well, in Washington I can walk out same day with a pistol, shotgun or rifle.  Thats only because of my CCW permit.  Everyone else has to wait 5 days, and that is only subject to if you are a felon or not.  Private sales dont require [s]nazi[/s] government aproval or paperwork. I can buy a supressor as long as I pay the tax stamp, but SBR's and full auto's are not allowed w/o an anal probe.  Cartman would feel at home.  

There are only a few states I would move too.  Wa, Az, Tx and a few others have a shall issue CCW, which over all if I had to pick between the evils, I would go where a CCW is easy to obtain.  Places where the Gov does not infringe on the right to carry are generaly the safest places, and secondly the most gun friendly places to live.  



[size=4]Question for kanada folks:[/size=4] [*]Even if your not a felon, dont you guys still have to go through your governments anal probe process [sex]before your allowed to own a firearm?[/*]  

[*]What is their position on wrist rockets? [;D] [/*]

NFA sound like you were flaged. You are getting the shaft because of your active role in the gun control debate and as such you are takeing the fall for speeking and acting for people like my wife and I both NFA members but... I keep relitively quiet. Is it the right thing to do? NO! For the good of the canadian gun owners across the country. NO! I should be writing, e-mailing, running my mouth off and selling my left nut to give donations to the NFA but I don't. Why? I have been wire tapped once and don't like it. I have been under investigation one and don't like it. I don't need to put myself and my family through that again. And I won't. And yes I spent 30 min in a fellas house after I bought my last ar15 untill I had a TAN # to take it home. Sounds like your PFO is an a-hole.

Moe

boom stick: the amount probing depends on whether the gun is a firearm.  Lots of paperwork and hassle, but little in the way of actual checks.  Some guns like line launchers and 'antique firearms' aren't considered firearms and require no background check.  Some new manufacture firearms such as flintlock reproductions of pre-1898 long guns are considered 'antique firearms' and require no background check.  Conversely, some pre-1898 guns are specifically not considered antique firearms, many by reason of their caliber.  So, an 1897 Colt SAA with a 3.5" barrel in 45 Colt is a 'prohibited firearm' and can't be purchased unless you already have a registered granfathered 12(6) prohibited firearm and the accompanying prohibited endorsement on your license - but an 1897 Colt SAA with a 3.5" barrel in 44 Russian is an 'antique firearm' and requires no license, registration certificate or background check at all.