I am having trouble determining my political identity.  I associate with Republicans more, but I am starting to find some liberal ideas agreeable for me.  So, given the following data, can YOU help me find out who and what I am?

Here goes:

I am pro-gun (duh)
I am pro-choice
I think the Dept. of Education is inefficient
I believe in the 10 Commandments above the judge's head
I believe in choice of prayer in school
I am equal-opportunity
I am not affirmative action
I believe in non-taxation of sales on the 'Net (ala Al Gore's proliferation plan)
I think some republicans are overly "fundamental"
I think most democrats are phony
I think Jim Jeffords did what he thought was right...
...and John McCain needs to get out b/c he's in the wrong party
I am with Sean Hannity 75% of the time
I am with Alan Colmes 25% of the time
I am with Bill O'Reilly 95% of the time
I believe in the death penalty to save tax dollars on society-useless criminals
I believe the Social Security program, although a savior to some, can become the road to 'unwilling' communism/socialism
I think all races and sexes are equal in "opportunity"...
...but I am not an egalitarian

I have always considered myself a semi-rightwinger, yet I am finding more and more liberal aspects about me as I go.  Am I truly a moderate as I suspected?  Or a misguided libertarian?  Perhaps an indecisive independent?  Help the Jew out!!!!

P.S. - Don't dare flame the pro-choice thing.  I know it's touchy, but everybody is entitled to their own, valid opinion.

Misguided libertarian.  Or if you agree with O'Reily, despotic pragmatist.

Go to [url]www.LP.org[/url] and check it out.

You might actually find some solace in the Constitution party if you can learn that abortion really is murder.

This is the part I really have a problem with.  You obviously believe in GOD since you support prayer and the 10 Commandments, one of which is "Thou shall not kill".  Yet your okay with killing an unborn child??  Now I am not Jewish so tell me this: Does the Jewish church support abortion or this this you own personnal belief?

I find that this is the main problem facing this country today, especially us gunowners.  We are very conservative when it comes to guns, but very liberal in many other areas(unions,pro-choice/murder,etc).  This will be/is our down fall, for we base our votes on many issues not just the gun issue.  And then we are surprised when our Representatives pass another gun law.

Freaking amazing!!

BTW...Don't bother telling me it not a living being until it born or any other crap.  Truth is people have abortions because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions (Liberal trait) or they don't want to be "inconvienced" by having a baby.

sgtar15

I'm with you on almost all your points.  I consider myself republican since they represent the majority of this list.  What EXACTLY are you (we)?  Maybe more toward libertarian?  I don't really know.

Now I can't sleep.  Thanks a lot!  [>Q]

Sarge,  I'm not pro-choice either but the topic is politics.  No offense, but the debate on this issue will take this thread way off topic.   [:)]

ms70,
I agree that it is politics and out of respect I will not bring up the abortion/murder issue again.  However, my point is that most gunowners are way to liberal themselves!!  We need to deside which side we are really on!!  We must stop being "moderate" Republicans.  Fact is the Republican party and the Democratic party really are not that different, and the reason why is because of us, the voter.  

We can not be conservative towrds the second ammendment yet be moderate/liberal in other areas.  It's all or nothing!  If we continue this trend all will eventually be lost...not just guns, but all personnal freedoms.

sgtar15

No fooling!!
Their job is to get you to agree with
Colmes 100%.

As people who own guns, our primary concern should be freedom.  How you define it is up to you, but the premise for all my political discussions is that freedom is primary and necessary for all human beings to be able to live to the fullest.  Some may not, but we can't hinder those who can accomplish by taking away thier freedom because some can't be free responsibly.

I am a teacher BTW, and I would never put my kid in public school.  If you have a kid, sit in their class for a day and listen to all the liberal dogma that gets presented as fact.  At least here in California.  Public schools are destroying our society and speeding up the conversion to totalitarian socialism.

I'm a Republican. Though I agree almost 100% with the constitution party, I don't think they can win any major offices.  I think it's best to reform the Republican party.

I am pro-gun (That's a given.)

I am pro-Life (Read Psalm 139:13-16, if you are truly a Jew)

I think government should be separated from education every bit as much as it is separated from religion.

I believe that if the 10 Commandments are posted in a government building, they should be posted as a sign of the general moral precepts that our nation and society hold dear--not as a endorsement of one religion over another.

I believe the the issue of prayer in school is ridiculous because government should be separated from education in every way.

I am equal-opportunity

I am not for affirmative action (revenge discrimination)

I believe taxes and the role of government should be reduced. Government should only do those things that only government can. (Military, justice system, etc.)

Please explain what you mean by fundamental and why you think it is a bad thing?  It is not a bad thing to believe in something very strongly.

I think most democrats are actually socialists.  Democrat leaders want to be tyrannical leaders. Democrat sheep want free handouts and to be taken care of from the cradle to the grave.

I think Jim Jeffords did what he thought would give him more power.

I think John McCain is a only interested in accumulating power and media attention and he holds no real core convictions.

I am with Rush Limbaugh 99% of the time.

I believe in the death penalty because there are some very sic specimens of sewer scum that don't deserve to live.  Let the punishment fit the crime.

I believe the Social Security program was a huge step towards destroying our precious liberty.  It was one of the first programs to move us towards Socialism.  The financial and medical wellbeing of people is the responsibility of family, friends, church, and community.

I think all races should be give equal opportunity.  The sexes should be given equal opportunity to the point that it is practical. (Face it: Men and women are mentally and physically different.)

I too am not an egalitarian.

I have always considered myself a hard-core rightwinger.  I find more and more liberal ideas to illogical and incorrect as I go.


That sounds really liberal to me.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. That does not make their opinion valid!  Validity is something that comes from logical evaluation.

How very true Ratters.  Thats why I have been homeschooling my kids for the last two years and it will continue.  I may send them back to school some day but it will be a private relious school.

sgtar15

PS And yes, I too live in Cali, Sacramento to be exact.

Don't confuse liberal with libertarian. Libertarian=Liberty, Liberal=I like a liberal amount of big govt.,taxes,affirmative action,etc.

You only have two real areas I can see that need immediate attention. Alan Colmes has nothing intelligent to say. Alan Colmes should be 0%. You may not agree with what Sean Hannity on everything, but Alan Colmes is a nut job. Second the Social Security system stinks. If you could invest your own amount that you normally put into Social Security into an annuity you would be able to retire with a nice amount of money. I used to be a staunch Republican. I have now seen the light. The Libertarian Party is the only hope this country has to stop the corruption of the Federal Government. The Republican Party is almost as bad as the Democrats. They keep on making more and more laws that spend more and more of our money. They compromise with the Democrats on a regular basis. The Republicans talk about reducing government, but do little to do it. The problem with Republicans is they don't adhere to a strict platform that is limited to by the Constitution. You should read The Great Libertarian Offer by Harry Brown. I have decided at every election I will vote for a Libertarian or Constitution Party Candidate or nobody at all. If neither are available I will probably write my own name in. I would rather hurt the Republicans by never voting for them again than die the slow death they are putting us through with the gun laws they agree to or don't fight against. The Democrats and the Republicans are pretty similar in that they both make careers out of running for office. It was not supposed to be like that. If you have a candidate from the Libertarian Party it does not really matter who it is because they are going to be restricted to what is constitutionally legal or not. This way you won't have politicians taking bribes to help pass new laws to help certain industries or businesses. Well I could go on and on about this, but you should read that book.You will probably swing you over to the Libertarian Camp.

No Slack!

Matt Daugherty, I don't thing the problem is so much with the Republican Party beliefs as it is with weak leaders and corrupt infiltrators.  If Libertarians and Constitution Party members stood a chance in major elections, then corrupt politicians would infiltrate their ranks as well.  The Republican Party has enough mass; it just has a weak rudder.  I'm hoping this will change--if not with the current president, then with the next generation of Republicans.

Wow, do you think you could be any more casually condescending and arrogant in one post?

I think Jewbroni has stated in previous posts that he is not a Jew.
Just a name.

I think you can tell from my posts that I'm more liberal in social issues such as pro-choice.  Most liberal economics I abhor.



THANK YOU!!!



Again, Thank You!!!



Look, I asked who I was because I KNEW the definition of "gun-owner" didn't define everythign about WHO I AM.  I agree gun owners should be a community of thought patterns, but everybody is different.  Not that different?  Well you are wrong there, in the fact the parties are quite different.  You're right in the sense that the 'undecided voter', like myself, is the key factor.  Am I an idiot to politics?  Heavens no!  Does that mean I am a staunch Republican or hippy-loving Democrat because I know the facts?  Nope.  I'm an intellegent, INFORMED guy, who still can go either way on some of the issues.  There are many other people like me who must pick the "lesser of two evils" in their voting frame of mind, and go with who defines them MOST, not who defines them perfectly.



Oh, so you can do EXACTLY what I told you not to do, which was basically to NOT debate the issue, but yet you don't think I deserve to give you a reason why I think that?  This was what I was referring to in my "overly-Fundamental Republican" comment - letting blind ideology cloud their demeanor.  "I'm right, you're wrong"...[i]then why are you even debating??[/i]  Either everybody agrees with you, or everybody doesn't.  If you're right, shouldn't it go either way and you wouldn't have to [i]worry[/i] about debating your opinion?  

If I had it my way, I'd encourage people to be Chinese and not have any more than 2 kids to keep the population problem down for the future.  Would it help?  Absolutely.  But do I believe that's Socialist?  Damn right I do - that's why I would never impose such a freedom-retarding thought upon the nation.  That's another reason why I'm all for abortion.  Next time, respect me when I say something about "no debating" before opening the lip, m'kay?

[b]END OF PART 1[/b]

[b]BEGINNING OF PART 2[/b]



Just took care of that for you [:)]



Very nice, Q-Man.  I like where you went with this post.  You backed up why you believed in what you did, you made very sound arguments, and you questioned me on some of my "shadier" ideologies (but using good manner and solid respect).  I hope I explained my 'validity' in my previous statements to [b]sgtar15[/b].  Again, this isn't a debate - nor was it intended to be - but thank you for taking the time to treat me like a human being...much appreciated.


Absolutely true.  I believe in function over form.  (I think me telling everybody <2 kids in every home was a [i]good idea[/i] sums that up).  Again, I wouldn't impose such a belief to anybody, because unlike some, I know that [i]function[/i] must be checked and balanced through the filter of [i]form[/i], which is inherint freedom.



See?  We all aren't blind, red-blooded Republicans like we thought we were, eh? Another one bites the dust [:)]



That's about the smartest thing you've said yet.  I'll ignore your previous ignorant statements.  I think the light has basically been shed on why "we cannot be conservative towards...yet be moderate in...".  We are all different, with a plethora of beliefs and ideologies that we grew up with, studied into, and learned as we matured.  

It will be like this for eternity, that's why there are more than one political party.  There is NOT all-or-nothing.  There IS an in-between.  And now am I seeing that that in-between is...

...Your Friendly, Neighborhood Jew~

Thanks Guys.

P.S. - [size=5] NO MORE DEBATING!!![/size=5]  Lord knows theres enough of that in the General Discussion forum as it is, so I'll stand up for what I believe in [i]as I go[/i], not in one giant session with people playing Good Cop Bad Cop and blaring a light in my face.

I think you are, as I am, a Libertarian. I also share some views with the Democrats & used to be one myself because I thought they were a party for the working man, the little guy. Now I think they just exploit working people but I'm still pro choice and generally a live & let live kind of classical liberal.

Thanks ludwig (see? no debating involved - IT CAN BE DONE PEOPLE!)

I, too, was a Democrat voter during the 2000 elections.  Ever since my "visits" to this board, not to mention owning a gun, some of my opinions (hell, a LOT of them) changed about the leftists.  I saw they were not the "help the proletariat" party, and were only helping to slowly creep away our freedoms.  [url]www.lp.org[/url] isn't too bad, anybody else have some literature for me?

Jewbroni~

You must be an elitist.

Jew-
I would say that you pretty much described me in your first post in this thread except I am pro life, but believe in a woman's inate right to choose for herself and her circumstances.  Kind of a contridiction, I know.  I am a Republican but feel that I am a minor or fringe element.  I am not big business nor am I rich; I work hard every day and have since I was in high school, many years ago.  I think most entitlement programs suck, as does affirmative action.  I beleive people should advance on their merits and abilities.  So what political party am I?
BTW what part of AL are you in?
[X] [X]

Damn professors must be
doing a number on you.

LOL Rick.  Yeah, I guess so.  I had a headache and wanted to be as concise as possible. [;)]

Jewbroni, have you read any Rand.  Or actually read JP O'Rourke, he is a small "l" libertarian/Republican.  I think you will like a lot of his stuff as it is presented in a humorous way.

BTW, there are a lot of pro-choice libertarians, at least over 50%.

I'm with the apparent majority in this topic, Jewbroni, you're a Libertarian.  This, to me, means you favor maximum individual liberty with the associated maximum individual responsibility.  Consider your list:

"I am pro-gun (duh)" Freedom and responsibility

"I am pro-choice" Ditto

"I think the Dept. of Education is inefficient"
  Is there an [i]efficient[/i] governmental department?  However, if you think the purpose of the Department of Education is to produce ignorant consumers easily lead by the government, it is a frighteningly efficient department.

"I believe in the 10 Commandments above the judge's head" Hmm...Like most people you have some conflicting beliefs.  No big deal if you recognize and are comfortable with them.

"I believe in choice of prayer in school"  Freedom of choice.

"I am equal-opportunity, I am not affirmative action"  Individual responsibility

"I believe in non-taxation of sales on the 'Net (ala Al Gore's proliferation plan)" Small government (STARVE IT!)

"I think some republicans are overly 'fundamental'" It's their belief.  They're allowed.

"I think most democrats are phony" Change "Democrats" to "Politicians"

"I think Jim Jeffords did what he thought was right..."  See above

"...and John McCain needs to get out b/c he's in the wrong party"  See above

"I am with Sean Hannity 75% of the time" You're capable of logic

"I am with Alan Colmes 25% of the time" but capable of being emotional

"I am with Bill O'Reilly 95% of the time" you're pragmatic, but not real well grounded in Constitutionalism.

"I believe in the death penalty to save tax dollars on society-useless criminals"  You haven't seen what it costs to actually kill someone vs. keeping them in a cell until the natural end of life.

"I believe the Social Security program, although a savior to some, can become the road to 'unwilling' communism/socialism"  True of ANY "helping hand" government program.

"I think all races and sexes are equal in 'opportunity'...
...but I am not an egalitarian" - That's redundant.

The problem with the Libertarian "Party" is that it's made up of staunch individualists.  Politics is a game of "getting along", of compromise.  You can't generally get 3 Libertarians to agree on what to have for lunch.

Don't Dare touch the Pro-choice thing? Hillery?
Chuck? They don't like debate either.
Your opinion is yours but if you make a statement be prepaired to defend it.
Liberals Hate to defend their position on anything that is a Hot issue.
They just attack the person or group that disagrees with them.
I think you are a moderate. Just the kind of person that can and does vote on the issues and the candidate and not by party line.
I myself am registered as 'Declined to state'
That way I don't have to vote in the primary but I am still registered to vote in any other election. I live in New Mexico and I don't know if you can register this way.

woke up this moring with a bad back - can't go to the range!  i'm pissed off.  saw this post and thought i was ready to reply - 'what political party are VAGINAS?' - ready for a fight.....

much to my surprise - i agree with most of what mr broni has written - SHOCK!  go jew go!

i think you and i belong to a policital party that does not exist (anymore) - there was one a few years ago that i joined but i can't remember the name, new patritots?..... ah well.

steve

I hear you man.  In fact, if I ever went pro-life, it would be during a situation where I didn't want a child, and an abortion was an option, but in the end I'd say "..I just can't do that."  Until then, I'm torn on the issue (another reason I didn't want to debate it, b/c I was hesitant to even mention it to the closed-minded here).  It's so easy to play a hypocrite on this topic - and I'm trying not to.

I'm from Birmingham (Hoover), but I'm going to school in Auburn right now.  I'll be here for the next 2 years.  I travel to Columbus/B'ham every now and again, and visit my Dad in Mobile when I get the occasional chance.  Where are you from?

Again, thanks everybody for understanding my situation instead of JUDGING me for it.  Ridicule never won me over, logic and reason always have...I'm not an engineer for my health!

Jewbroni~

I did not know this.  I mean, I've heard of the pill before, I was referring to the opinion about it from both sides.  NEITHER of them like it?  Are you saying that they are so intoxicated by the issue itself, and their personal beliefs about it, that they LIKE debating over it?  If neither group WANTS abortion, and they only really bicker over the aspects of it rather than the act itself, then why don't they want this thing on every drug counter in the nation?  Are the right-wings so worried about increasing unprotected sex, or the leftists concerned about losing their pro-choice female voters (or something along those lines)?  This is a massive, MASSIVE IRONY!!!!

Can someone explain the reasoning behind this??
Thanks for the post, Troy - learn something new every day.

Jewbroni~

Okay, I wasn't going to reply and make this an abortion issue.  But you kept bringing it up.  I won't ridicule you or judge you, that's GOD's job.  You say logic and reason wins you over so answer me these two basic questions.

[b]1.  Would you have supported your mothers choice if she aborted you? [/b]

[b]2.  What does this picture look like to you?[/b]
[url]http://www.abortiontv.com/images/jh9.jpg[/url]

(edited to change an image into a link for those with more sensitive stomachs - Paul)

Now let see who really is the close minded person here.

sgtar15

after reading the libertarian party website I think they most closely represent me. I sent away for further info. until then I pretty much vote republican. The main issues I care about when voting are guns and taxes. Luckily the republicans are usually both pro-gun and for less taxes. I'm pro-choice, but not strongly enough to make it an issue when voting

I came to the same conclusion.  

So far my only hangup with the libertarian party is there stance on "open borders" as far as immigration is concerned.  Other then that they're major stances seem right on target with my beliefs.

Of course many things were not covered, I think I will dig deeper into those issues as well.

Edited for spelling.

I'm sick and tired of your bullshit, SG.  You didnt' listen to a goddamn word I said about not wanting to debate the issue.  This post was never intended for your brainwashing of me.  The only one who kept 'bringing the issue up'...WAS YOU!  Someone mentioned their opinion, I replied to it and [i]closed the issue[/i].  That means you [b]stop talking about it[/b].  I suggest you go find a pornography magazine or your significant other and have some fun with them instead of me, I'm tired of you getting off on bashing my views.  You are extremely close minded...I'm not even referring to your opinions on abortion, I'm referring to the way you refuse to [b]Drop a Subject[/b].

About your "argument" of abortion, you broke two rules of a good debate - 1.) You don't dispute the issue when it's made clear TIME and TIME again that this wasn't the place/setting for it, and 2.) You didn't respect me or my views.  Don't even bother replying to this, you've already lost, both your debate and your self-respect in my eyes.  Grow up, son.

Jewbroni~

Moderators, if you see this message, please lock this thread.  I no longer feel up to tolerating this stupidity.  -Beachboy, if you want to followup with our last conversation, you may do so here until locked, or email me, if you would like to chat.

Thank You, Topic Closed.

Why so hostile??  I asked you two basic questions [b]after you refered to pro-life people being close minded!![/b]

I will also drop the arguement because it is not the reason of this topic.

And BTW, I am not your "SON", as a matter of fact I am a 36 year old father of two wonderful kids that I choose not to kill. So watch were you throw out labels.

Also, if you really want this post to go away you can delete it your own self since you are the original topic poster, but why would you want to do that????????

sgtar15

Jewbroni, I'd like to apologize on behalf of some "pro-life" people on this board who are behaving like complete dickheads. Of course, you probably already know not everybody on this side of the issue is like that.

In answer to your original question.. what does all that make you? It makes you somebody who thinks things out for themself, as opposed to 90% of the population who let somebody else do their thinking. You'd probably find the Libertarian party a good fit.



What the hell do some of you think you are going to accomplish by calling people names? Do you REALLY think you are going to change their point of view? I have news for you. Whether we are talking about the death penalty, abortion, or what have you, people's opinions on these sorts of moral choices are guided by what is in their HEART, and *YOU* will NEVER change that! It is the height of arrogance to believe YOU can make someone see what is wrong with abortion. Only God can change what's in the heart.

Some people supposedly in the "pro life" camp act no better than radical fundamentalists who blow up airlines. The end does NOT justify your means. When you use tactics like this you represent yourselves as no better than the people you criticise.

*sigh* Somehow I expected this.

Actually, I was still looking forward to what people had to say about politic policies and parties...it was all very intriguing.  But it only takes one to turn the place upside-down.

Answers:

1.) How would I know, I'd be in the Lord's hands in a much less cruel place.
2.) Looks like a rose in one hand, and a dead fetus in the other...another other questions Trebek?

If you have the right to be ignorant, intolerable, oppressive, and utterly thick-skulled, I have full right to show a little hostility.  I don't care how damn old you are.  I'm sure you're a loving father, who has a great family and everybody thinks you're just keen.  Hell, this post aside, I would not be hard-pressed to find you a decent person to converse with again.  

The point is, you messed up - you tried too hard - you butted in a bit too much - [i]you were acting childish[/i].  I'm not trying to start a war with you.  My point from post #1 was that I did not WANT to debate the issue.  You knew that, yet you insisted on trying to impose things on me:  that's my beef.

NOW, I'm waving a peace flag here.  Shall we call a truce?

No I do not expect to change anyone mind and I don't recall calling anyone names during this discussion.  My whole point is that the country is F-ed up because we have lost our basic set of core values.  Not just the value of life but also the value of family has deteriated. IMHO this is a direct cause of the majority liberal laws in this country.  Want to know why this country is so f-ed up??  It's because of the me me me syndrom...people vote to get what they want not because of what's right.

sgtar15

Truce is fine...My point was not actually with you as it was with contradicting beliefs in general.

sgtar15

Wow, I guess I'm Jewish too!  I'm with Jewbroni on his original post almost down the line.

I'll be for people taking personal "responsibility for their actions" just as soon as the Christian Coalition lets them.  What is wearing a condom?  Personal responsibility, yet the FAR right wing wants to block access to condoms.

Hello, well over 1/2 of all high school kids have sex before they graduate.  How exactly do you propose that they take this "responsibility?"

Whoa!  Edited to read 99% Hannity, 1% Combs.

BTW, I say we do away with abortion completely, but as a rider to that bill, any welfare person or parent that does not take care of their child gets automatic neuter.  Hey it's reversable, if they do better later, we can restore thier ability to pro-create. [:)]

Post from ticonderoga -

I consider myself to be a member of the 'FAR right wing' and I don't want to block access to condoms! I think adults should be able to buy just about whatever they want, condoms, sex toys, double-headed dil-whatevers, you name it!

But now if you ask me if I think that such items should be given away in Junior High and High Schools, at taxpayer expense, with the approval of the Head Nurse(?) or whatever, who's not even permitted to hand out aspirin, then my answer is no. Hell, no.

If Joey, the Slug, is dating your daughter, do you reckon it's a good idea to throw her a pack of condoms when he shows up for a date and say 'Here you go Sally, be careful having sex with the Slug, dear!'

YOU wouldn't do it, but you'd be comfortable with some prick from the school handing them out to your little Sally?

Eric The(Here'sAnotherPARTYBalloon,Kid)Hun[>]:)]

But Troy, haven't you heard?  Everyone is [red]entitled[/red] to a roof over their head, free medical care, three square meals a day, a color TV, cable, a Lay-z-boy recliner, air-conditioning, a car...

We need a Conservative party.

Getting back to the point....

Couple of issues, there was a study a year or so back that based on what folks support, there turns out to be about 4 sub-types of "democrats", and about 5 sub-types of "republicans".

The tendency is to try to pigeon hole all republicans as believing one thing, and all democrats believing something else.

Remember that the parties platforms overlay parts of the sphere or circle that is the political map. The parties don't define the map.

So, its more important that Jewbroni define his beliefs for himself, and let the parties know what he thinks, and maybe the parties' platforms will adjust in time to be closer to him. Since most of the folks on this board are human,[:)] our own political beliefs will often be contradictory or confused. Thats not bad, just human nature.

Topic Re-Opened:

[img]mcuzi.com/pics/jewbroni.jpg[/img]