[url]http://WWW.sightings.com/general11/grand.htm[/url]
WA State.....73 year old woman despondent over death of her husband allegedly has
a gun...SWAT with armor support has her pinned down........

She's also got one of those sword-canes- watch out!

Freakin Ninja (Nazi) wannabe's!! [pissed]

ColtShorty

GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA

"I won't be wronged,  I won't be insulted
and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do
these things to other people and I require
the same from them."

The local news was happily covering this unlikely event, throwing in such naughty words and phrases as: "her husband was a GUN COLLECTOR"; and, "there are a number of WEAPONS in the apartment"; etc.

It makes me puke to see this on TV and to have to endure the ignorance of the reporter, and suffer through their obvious titillation at saying "naughty GUN WORDS".

AAARRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

The family court people kept telling me that I had "issues" when I'd get ticked off over some of the shit going on in my divorce.

From the looks of this, our government has a few "issues" of it's own to deal with. I'd be rolling on the floor, laughing my ass off if this wasn't so terribly sad for that woman.

My dad is 72. If he has a gun and is pissed off enough to use it, you better get the SWAT team!
People under mental distress with guns can be a real problem no matter what age. If you want to walk up and ask her for it be my guest.

In Seattle, our police department either over reacts or doesn't act at all...  I don't think that it's the guys on the beat so much, as it is their poor-ass PC leadership.  Just my opinion.
W

Alright, I see there are several NASA scientists here.

From the looks of the story
1) the police are "sealing off" the area.
2) they aren't making any moves against the person.
3) the person is distraught or very distraught according to neighbors.
4) She may have several weapons.

Let's go smart guys, what is YOUR plan for dealing with this??

And remember your plan needs to take the safety of the 73 yr old, the public, and the officers into account. LET'S GO GENIUSES.

FYI I love when "gun people" say something about an armed person like "she's a little old lady", Or "a small female". Maybe I missed the  ballistic principle where the bullet takes the shooter's physical description into account. Fired by little old lady, well what say 2500 fps, Navy SEAL, well what say 3300 fps....

[red] MORONS [/red] The only thing that matters is if they can pull the trigger.

[blue] A person who doesn't care about themselves is very dangerous, suicidal and homicidal are two words that are almost synonyms in that regard. Last thing anyone would want is suicide by cop in a situation like this [/blue]  

Oh yeah, I checked KOMO-4's website, the tv station that is named in the attachement. Guess what, no news story about an armed stand-off with a little old lady.

Is it possible someone is making up news events?? Don't post stuff claiming that it happened without a shred of proof.

How about knocking on the door, genius? I seem to remember a time when that was fashionable. And how do you justify a tank? You can't. You may want to, but it won't fly.

And how do you know that wasn't tried??? What if it was and Granny showed up packing heat?? It's not a tank, learn about armored vehicles, no PD has a tank. It was an APC, probably for moving people away from the "hot-zone" so that if a round did come inbound the A in APC would stop it.

And how do you know they weren't if phone contact with Granny, who was telling them she had "heat" and was going to start blazing away?? You wanna be the point man to knock on that door?? We'll change your name from critter to Fodder.

The whole point is to get everyone away so if she does have a gun she realistically can't hurt someone. Because if she can hurt someone and pops out with a gun lookin' like she will start shooting guess what-SUICIDE BY COP. Which is what they are trying to avoid.

If her world has come apart and she is distraught, deppressed, angry, and so on why give her the opportunity to do something she wouldn't ever do regularly?????????????????????

I GUESS YOU DIDN'T THINK IT THROUGH

LE can't just knock on the door anymore, since their FIRST PRIORITY is to go home safely at the end of the shift.  Knocking could result in a bruised knuckle, a splinter, or God-knows-what other disabling condition.  The story, if real, is absurd.

I have my doubts about the story, it is on the UFO sightings board. Would this be less absurd If it was a 45 year old male??

Bullets don't care who fire them or why they were fired.

Being a 45 yo male, yes it would be just as absurd.  LE has forgotten the concept of measured response by people who know what they're doing.  Instead, they use any excuse to dress up and play with their toys.  I believe there is a need for SWAT operations, I just don't believe that every community needs them.

When I have absolutely nothing else to do, I'll watch COPS occaisionally and just laugh out loud and their stupid, mechanical movements when handcuffing a prisoner, for instance.  For these morons, strict adherence to the connect-the-dots training ends up taking twice as long to accomplish a simple task, and they usually end up getting in each others' way.  Its funny seeing tac gloves, shirt sleeves, etc. get hooked up in the cuffs, especially when there are a half dozen guns trained on the guy on the ground.  Amazing but, I guess if they were rocket scientists, they'd be working for NASA.

Feeling the competition for your job??

The silly training/policy stuff is hilarious, until someone gets hurt and sues the cops. First thing the lawyer will say is "officer did you follow your training or did you devise some goof-ball way to do this task?" Apparently Kissel's answer would be something like "I did it my way 'cause I'm smarter that anyone else." "Forget about following training, what like they have years of experience and expert opninions on how to do something so what." Good thinking.

If you knew anything you would know that EDP's, emoitional distrurbed persons, are very dangerous to deal with. They don't act like they regularly would and are unpredictable. Whether or not they have the SWAT team is not the point, did the SWAT team storm in guns blazing?? NO.

If this incident is real, the SWAT team was there "containing" the area. So that people not involved could get out and would stay out. So that they would be out of harms way, and the person calling granny would have time to try and "talk her down" so that no-one would get hurt.

I must've missed the "measured response" seems to me that LE has sent in fewer officers in the past and their directive was talk'em or kick'em, either way get'em out. To "control" a situation and not just go in fists and guns blazing requires more people power.

Plus there are more lawyers then ever before. Wouldn't be hard to get sued for that wrongful death suit because the PD decided not to evacuate and granny touched off a round killing someone. And granny wouldn't be the one getting sued.  

So, is COPS on 24hrs a day now?

OOPS!  Looks like I stepped on some jack-booted toes!

Apparently there are some folks here who've never dealt with an emotionally disturbed person who was armed and directing their disturbance outward towards others.  Knock on the door of a woman with a gun who is despondent and suicidal/homicidal?  Go ahead, genius, see what it gets you.  You'd be the same folks talking about how stupid the cops were if they did that and she came to the door with the gun out and they had to shoot her. " Where was the tactical team?"  you'd say, " Where were the negotiators?  Didn't they know she was dangerous?"  The proper response is to clear the area, lock the house down and talk her into coming out without the gun.   Then you get her some help from the mental health folks.

Think a 73 year old woman with a gun is less dangerous just because of her age?  Grow the fuck up.  A bullet sent downrange by a 73 year old woman will kill you just as dead as one fired by a 17 year old gangbanger.  If she has Alzheimers or something similar, that can make her more unpredictable and therefore dangerous.  Should they go in guns blazing?  No.  Should they lock the area down and try to negotiate her out safely?  Absolutely.

Older folks can be just as dangerous as anyone else.  I once had a 83 year old man who had just threatened his neighbor with a pistol make a very credible attempt to split my skull open with his mahogany walking stick.  If he'd connected, I'd likely have been done.

NO-AR has got it right.  This site has more than a few loudmouth monday-morning quarterbacks.  It's easy to criticize how others handle the situations you don't have the balls to deal with yourself.

"Don't ever try to teach me about Good and Evil- I've been there, and you've seen nothing but the map".- Orson Scott Card

Typical dumbass to believe a story that the liberal media puts on the air. You guys only believe the media when it suits your purposes. To bash SWAT/Cops/Feds, etc...Get a life and quit crying all the damn time about LEO's. Most of the guys I work with are ex-military, which is probably more than I can say for most of the arm chair commandos on this board that run their suck all the time, so to call them "wannabe" is pretty damn funny! Sounds like HK-envy to me! Damn shame!

Semper Fi
ASO544

Glad I checked back on this thread.  It is true that I often disagree with members and when I do, I say so.  This IS a discussion board.  If the content and tone of the the discussion is subject to thebeekeeper1's approval, I was unaware.  He's an a$$hole for sure, with his superior, humorless attitude.  I just wish he didn't have to make it personal.

I do participate in other discussion, but the General Discussion board is very fertile ground for disagreement and strong opinions.  Maybe if I hurry and run up 800 posts by commenting on every goddam subject and achieve "Senior Member" status, I can sit in judgement of other members' use of the boards too.

Kissel out.
 
Generally, I come here to learn.  Sometimes, I have an opinion to express which is my priviledge.  Get off my back.    

You cop bashers are hilarious! You goof on soccer moms for believing everything they read/hear about guns and gun owners is gospel, yet you get sucked in by the tin foil hat people because thats what you want to beleive. Better get back to the flock sheeple.

thebeekeeper1:
My sincerest apology.

He's an a**hole for standing up for cops? or for expressing his opinion just like everyone else? Take a good look around the general discussion board. It's full of sarcastic. condescending, arrogant comments from all kinds of people. Are they all trolls? What do you see constructive or positive about the B.S. the cop haters dish out here? This board is for general discussion and everything that goes with it.

Ok how many people have ever had to work with someone who is having mental problem. I worked with them for 3 years and let me tell you they can snap any second. I have worked with people as young as 8 who where telling me how they where going to cut my body parts off and rape my wife disemboweled body. I have worked with a woman who was 80 years old and almost killed another patient of the phys ward with a cane. The guy was 24 years old in for drug rehab he did nothing to the lady. She just go up smacked him over the head with the cane then just beat him almost to death. The guy was in ICU for three days after that. So as you can see what the S.W.A.T did was ok with me. If you have never worked with someone who has mental problem then you know what I'm talking about. If you have not then don't say anything about what these officers did because you don't know how people with mental problems act. Also get off cops asses not every cop in this world is out to get you and your guns because if they where they would have you in jail and your guns melted by now. Last I know a lot of cops that are on AR15.com that support you having gun's and the department I'm also looking at supports people having guns.

OK LEO's I know your in a catch 22 situation here. If you deploy swat teams it looks too agressive. if you dont, you didnt respond quickly enough and something bad happened.
I get it, but to me it SEEMS like swat and tactical units are deployed too often nowadays
and that usually gets people worked up.
seeing guys dressed and armed like soldiers out on our streets tends to set our alarms off !!!
Thats where the attitude of (they are just looking for reasons to play with their toys )comes from
just my .02
51 out.....

Well this is probably my fault for posting the article in the first place...had I known
of the realatively thin skins ...and how differing opinions stresses y'all out so easily
I would have thought better of it..you who claim to be Law Enforcement types who get angry so quickly when someone criticizes what they feel in their opinon are bad cops
so what..why get hot over it?..when I was in law enforcement the one lesson I learned was to keep my cool when people pulled my chain...and those who paint all cops with the same broad brush are equally to blame...in every single human field of endevor there are slackers, and crooks and those who rise well above everyone else in their field..thats life..

This is true there are a lot of bad cops out there. Most of them younger who just want a power trip. Maybe its true also that swat teams are deployed to much but if it was my butt that was hanging out there with this woman in there I would want the guys how are trained to do this to go in there because I would not have the training or knowledge to do this job if I was a street cop. I's it not one of the key rules in CCW don't be what your not I think the same goes for officers.

This is true there are a lot of bad cops out there. Most of them younger who just want a power trip. Maybe its true also that swat teams are deployed to much but if it was my butt that was hanging out there with this woman in there I would want the guys how are trained to do this to go in there because I would not have the training or knowledge to do this job if I was a street cop. I's it not one of the key rules in CCW don't be what your not. I think the same goes for officers.

Something SMELLS!
I also went to the claimed website of origin (KOMO TV 4 News) and read through today's and the last 7 days' news listings.

Guess what?  
I found no report of this nature there.

Makes you wonder about the integrity of "sightings.com", doesn't it? :(

To ARwhat'shisface...  I live 2 miles and work 1 mile from where "granny" lived.  Story was/is true.
W

Hey Buck...I apologize for offending you..

I saw this story on King 5 news. It is real, but I turned it off before the "stand off" ended so I can't tell you how it turned out.

Kyle

Group hug?

She gave up, no shots fired, and there was peace once again both on Greenwood Ave. and over at AR15.com [8D]

Ok it was real, I was beginning to doubt it since it was on the UFO sightings board, and not on the local tv station board where it supposedly aired.

Yes I am a smart guy, and your point would be??I can post whatever I feel is relevant. If you want to make stupid comments about a situation expect me to comment back asking you to defend your comments.

And when I challenged other's to come up with a plan to deal with this situation the best 2 of you could do was "knock on the door?" Maybe it's not me that that has the thin skin.

It is always easier to criticize from afar than to actually do something.

The situation was resloved without use of force. Hopefully the lady will be getting mental
health assistance and will be able to live her life enjoyably.

Yes if the story was SWAT team storms apt. 15 minutes after being called to person with a gun I would agree It was excessive. Merely calling them out "in case" is a whole different mattter.

BEGIN EDIT

I re-read the start of this post. Yes in other threads I have complained about others calling names. I violated my own rules. But read carefully, the names I calles were "NASA Scientists" and "geniuses", in general to others that had posted here. Hardly serious name calling.

I did call "gun people" who thought it made a differnce who was on the operator side of a gun as to the deadly effect of a bullet hitting "MORONS". Is there anyone who will argue that if someone is hit by a bullet it matters the stature, age, strenght, or intellignce of the person who fired it? If you understand that then the comment doesn't apply to you.

Beekeeper1: I wasn't the one who started the name calling or who took it to an extreme. Nor do I think I have been "viscous". The attachment to the post was very negative about officers that apparently were trying to do the best that could be done in a difficult situation. For that they got called NAZI's. I don't think that is funny or apropriate.

I'll get over it. There's two things that chap my ass in a heart beat. One is veteran bashers and the other is cop bashers. No grudges here. I guess its no coincidence since I'm a vet and a cop.

A lot of posts are not general cop bashing though. Quite often it is about specific cops, or specific actions. I do notice some LEOs rush to the defense of any LEO regardless of the situation. Others, seem to see both sides. Same works on the other side, some people bash LOEs no matter what, and others see both sides. You just have to ignore the ones who do paint with a broad brush

I also am a veteran, and I hear people bash us all the time. I think it is wrong, but I served so they could say what they want.


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