God, arguing with liberals is SO FUCKING ANNOYING. They never listen. And I can't stop otherwise they'll say I was "overwhelmed by their logic." I WANT TO FUCKING BEAT THEM WITH CHAIRS.

Anyway, my current argument is about Bush and those infamous Seven Minutes. They're all, "OMG OMG OMG BUSH IS SO DUMB HE DIDNT DOO ANYTHING LOLOL VOTEKERRYPLZKTHXBYE!!!!!!!!!!1" To which I say, he could not have done anything of any value. We were all thinking it's a tragic accident, and the government is autonomous enough to not require the president for every decision.

"He should have done something! Anything!"

"But what? Caused a panic by running around shouting?"

"He should have scrambled jets to prevent the second plane from hitting!"

"We didn't know there was going to be a second plane."

"He should have called a press conference!"

"On what? For what?"

"He should have done something! Anything!"

GOD it is fucking annoying. And they say that because he didn't send fighter jets at random planes, he is incompetent. Because he didn't order all planes down, he is incompetent. Because he didn't run around like a chicken with its head cut off, he is incompetent.

My favorite part is when one of them said, for a random reason, "the guy he blew off looking for so he could get a few thousand more Americans onto the wounded and killed in action stats in the wrong country." Yeah, Bush invaded Iraq specifically to kill more of our own troops. And then guess what! Apparently, I was "choosing to take that statement literally," and "missing the subtext."

My head hurts. I think I'm having a brain hemmhorage caused by exposure to pure idiocy.

I know what Bin Laden did when he learned that his plan worked. His coward ass hid in a cave for two years.

He should have flown like superman to new york and personally evacuated every in the buildings.

Quoted: He should have flown like superman to new york and personally evacuated every in the buildings.

And notified the Justice League while on the way there!

I would have taken Kerry 1 hour to do anything, cause he would've been out windsurfing.

Quoted: I would have taken Kerry 1 hour to do anything, cause he would've been out windsurfing.

Kerry would have been right on it...he would have slithered on his belly...stalking beast and fowl.  

After all he has a plan.

Quoted: Bush couldnt really DO anything because no one knew EXACTLY what was really happening. Also, there are already contingincies in place for when the US is attacked. Many of these things happen automatically without the POTUS having to lift a finger. D. AZEX

+1

The pres actually does little except set policy and make executive decisions. It  isn't a position for micro managers - it's an office for an executive that puts good people in the right place and trusts them to handle the day to day operations, including emergency operations.

What the bush hating morons want is a perfect reaction to EVERYTHING based on their hindsight years  later.

Guess what - it's 3 years later and that stupid F*&(  John Kerry still doesn't know what he would have done that day.

from reports of when the first plane hit the towers ,everyone thought  a single engine prop plane ran into on accident it wasn't till the second jet hit that people figured out a jet hit the first building

I know what I did.  I found the soft serve ice cream machine.

I really didnt know what the fuck else to do.

Turned the book rightside up.  

Quoted: Turned the book rightside up.

Check out snopes, that picture was doctored.

Just ask them ..." What did Kerry do in those 7 min ?? "

Quoted: Quoted: He should have flown like superman to new york and personally evacuated every in the buildings. And notified the Justice League while on the way there!

no, notify the X-presidents

Here's what the Massachusetts Democrat said July 8 when Larry King asked where he was on 9/11, according to CNN's own transcript:

"I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting - we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation."

"the second plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m., and the plane hit the Pentagon at 9:43 a.m. By Kerry's own words, he and his fellow senators sat there for forty minutes, realizing 'nobody could think.'"

Bush was able to read for 7 minutes, Kerry sat like a fresh dog turd on a yard for 40 minutes not able to think.

Quoted: Just ask them ..." What did Kerry do in those 7 min ?? "

You mean 35 minutes right?

"I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting -- we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon."

From 9:02 until 9:37 John Kerry couldn't even think.

Go ahead let the Kerry groupies mention 7 minutes (when it's really 5) then tell them what Kerrys very won version of the his story is.

Hence the

Quoted: Quoted: Turned the book rightside up.   Check out snopes, that picture was doctored.

They are idiots. Console yourself with the fact that their illogic and indecisiveness will cause them to be "converted" very early on as they try to reason with the z**bies and show compassion for them. Then you will be able to shoot them without raising any moral issues.

He should have done exactly what he DID do--nothing to frighten the innocent children in front of him, and nothing to show that he wasn't in control.

He should NOT have panicked and fled the room.

He should NOT have reacted hysterically or impulsively, on too little information.

He should NOT have tried to leave until after the Secret Service said it was safe to do so (my understanding is, this was the main reason for the 7 minutes).

Ask them a simple question....what do THEY think he should have done?
Then, ask them why they aren't upset that Clinton took TWO DAYS to respond to the first WTC bombing in 1993?  
Or that it took 13 days for him to respond to the bombing of our embassies in 1996?
Or that his only response to the Khobar Towers attack in 1998 was to ask the Saudis to arrest some folks?
Or that he STILL hasn't responded to the 2000 attack on the USS Cole?

The Pres does not move around freely like you and I can.  

When something happens he just cant jump up and run out to the Presidental limo, Air Force One or Marine One.  He HAS TO BE ESCORTED by the Secret Service.  They say when and where he goes.....if he goes against their plans they will physically move him where he is most safe.

Nothing would have been different no matter where the President went or who he talked to.  The most important mission at that moment concerning the Secret Service and the President was to keep him secure and then what was the best way to move him to the next secure location to keep him safe.  

PERIOD

LB

There is a video out there somewhere of the evacuation at Capitol Hill. Part of it inadvertantly showed Kerry doing what many people were doing that day. Walking around aimlessly, unsure of what to do next.

Anyone that questions Bush's reaction time is a "DUMB FUCK". Bush's only fault is that he thinks faster than the media and the liberals, and to me that is not a fault. As far as I am concerned he would not and did not wait for the world to water down the event.

I would like to say that I would have pushed the button, but that is not realistic. If you gage in a global/ political timeframe Bush has been lightning quick throughout this whole terror driven campaign.

THAT is what the world is afraid of.  A country that has devestating power and is willing to use it. FOR THE GOOD OF MANKIND. Unfortunately, those that are afraid have their perspective based on tyrannical "DUMB FUCKS in the past."

When President Bush was in Phoenix on 12, Aug. this year, I got to talk to an Agent from WHCA, the White House Communications Agency. I installed all telecommunications for the White House & press corps at the political rally here. I asked what really happened durring that time.
The Agent said that everyone hoped it was just an accident of some kind. NO ONE knew what was going to happen. After the second tower was hit, they knew that it was an act of terrorism. But with so many aircraft in the air, NORAD had no idea what was really going on to the second in real time. There were not enough fighters available to intercept much of anything ready to go. We were really almost defenceless, short of the stinger missle batteries that are around Washington DC.
Face it, we got caught asleep at the switch. Even though the FBI had written a warning about middle eastern men learning to fly aircraft (written by my FBI neighbor's partner), we had no warning of what was going to happen that day. As a matter of fact, my neighbor was at an anti-terrorism symposium in Quanico, Virginia on 9/11/01 along with all of the anti-terrorist FBI agents. When they heard of the tower 1 being hit, everyone in the meeting thought it was a joke. After the second tower was hit, they realised that it was the real deal. They were told to get back to their home offices anyway they could. All rental cars disapeared quickly. Some agents bought used cars on their Govt. credit cards. My neighbor caught a flight on an Air Force C-130 from Virginia to Luke AFB in Glendale, Az.

It was a total suprise attack.

Period.

Stuffed it in one of the cute teacher's poopers and posted pics here at ARFCOM!

Quoted: The teacher was a 250 pound middled aged black woman

you racist

Arguing with Liberals should be treated like the War on Terror. If you spend all of your time trying to respond to their inane points, you're already at a disadvantage. Make your own points, such as this one:

The reason why we were surprised is because it was a surprise attack. When you're hit with a surprise attack, you don't spend all your time nitpicking how you responded to it and what you should have done, you hit the bastards back! Just like the saying "The best cover is rapid, accurate fire directed at the enemy", the best way to protect yourself from surprise attacks is to make sure they don't happen by killing the people who make them.

Not going to get through to that bunch.  I had my shorts in a knot for a long time after watching Peter Jazerra saying 'where is the President.  We need to see the President.'  That is when they had him in the air  and I think they flew to mid west or texas to refuel and up in the air again.   I can imagine what these idiots would be saying if President Bush would have said 'gimme that damn brief case with the red button'.  They would be screaming he killed people without taking the time to have meetings and be sure.  

btw....did everyone see the billboards in Florida blaming Bush's environmental policy for the hurricanes?

Don't forget the difference between genius and stupidity is stupidity has no limits.

Armed all of our nuclear weapons for launch.

Fueled our rockets.

Gave the word to the militaryt o be prepared to light up the world.

Shut down all Airplanes in the sky immediatly except the military.

Called in the Reserves to report to duty.

Bombed anyone immediatly you had your sights on from previous surveillance.  Like terrorist leaders,  drug lords,  just in case they slipped away in the coming days and could of been responsible,  and then brushed the whole thing into coverup.

Sent out a memo to all other countries that the US was on the highest alert and to cease all military training exercises that could be perceived as mobilizing against our country.  

Bombed the major cities where people were celebrating to give the world the message that this was NOT to be taken lightly.  I cant even forgive the President for his decision to let this go on around the world.  At least maybe a big Tear gas bomb that would of sent the foreign cities into dissaray and distrupted their celebrations.

Gathered who was on the planes,  and tried to determine who they were and who was responsible.

Not let any ships leave or otherwise enter into the US waters.

Get local law enforcement to go headhunting for anything suspicous and to call everyone on duty to flip their respected counties upside and inside out.  And to be ready for anything.

Determined that it was Middle Easterners responsible.

Rounded up the 1 million Muslims in the US and asked them questions.  Put them on 7 day emergency certification in a hospitol for evaluation.  Detain the ones who could remotely pose a threat.

Not let anyone enter or leave the country (Usama was allowed to leave the country after Sept 11th on orders from the President),  Bush is not a very smart tactician.

Put up anti air defenses in and around the coast and major cities especially.

Run a whole lot of anti submarine and anti ship warfare off the coasts of the UNited States as avoiding Sept. 11th being a diversion for a foreign missile strike on major cities.

Banned container trucks not containing food or medical supplies.  Set up roadblock on all major highways to search every Uhaul or container truck to make sure the regulation was in affect.

Closed all bridges and tunnels except for supplies and military or police personnel.

Put more police in public transit.

Encouraged people to do car pools and to only be traveling around if it was absolutely necessary.

Run serveillance on all power plants,  water treatment facilities,  reservoirs,  Food processing plants.  The usual.  But more of an emphasis and covering up any loose ends their may be.

Everyone you thought may be a terrorist,  you  look for and if possible detain.

Go through the major cities and make sure we know who is in the country.  Make sure people are known about. They are who they say they are etc.  No large foreign terrorist cells are largely visible.



And about 100000000000000000000 other things that we DIDNT do.

And the 100000000000000 safety rules we didnt have before Sept. 11th,  and that we still DO NOT have.

Quoted: Armed all of our nuclear weapons for launch. Fueled our rockets. Gave the word to the militaryt o be prepared to light up the world. Shut down all Airplanes in the sky immediatly except the military. Called in the Reserves to report to duty. Bombed anyone immediatly you had your sights on from previous surveillance.  Like terrorist leaders,  drug lords,  just in case they slipped away in the coming days and could of been responsible,  and then brushed the whole thing into coverup. Sent out a memo to all other countries that the US was on the highest alert and to cease all military training exercises that could be perceived as mobilizing against our country.   Bombed the major cities where people were celebrating to give the world the message that this was NOT to be taken lightly.  I cant even forgive the President for his decision to let this go on around the world.  At least maybe a big Tear gas bomb that would of sent the foreign cities into dissaray and distrupted their celebrations. Gathered who was on the planes,  and tried to determine who they were and who was responsible. Not let any ships leave or otherwise enter into the US waters. Get local law enforcement to go headhunting for anything suspicous and to call everyone on duty to flip their respected counties upside and inside out.  And to be ready for anything. Determined that it was Middle Easterners responsible. Rounded up the 1 million Muslims in the US and asked them questions.  Put them on 7 day emergency certification in a hospitol for evaluation.  Detain the ones who could remotely pose a threat. Not let anyone enter or leave the country (Usama was allowed to leave the country after Sept 11th on orders from the President),  Bush is not a very smart tactician. Put up anti air defenses in and around the coast and major cities especially. Run a whole lot of anti submarine and anti ship warfare off the coasts of the UNited States as avoiding Sept. 11th being a diversion for a foreign missile strike on major cities. Banned container trucks not containing food or medical supplies.  Set up roadblock on all major highways to search every Uhaul or container truck to make sure the regulation was in affect. Closed all bridges and tunnels except for supplies and military or police personnel. Put more police in public transit. Encouraged people to do car pools and to only be traveling around if it was absolutely necessary. Run serveillance on all power plants,  water treatment facilities,  reservoirs,  Food processing plants.  The usual.  But more of an emphasis and covering up any loose ends their may be. Everyone you thought may be a terrorist,  you  look for and if possible detain. Go through the major cities and make sure we know who is in the country.  Make sure people are known about. They are who they say they are etc.  No large foreign terrorist cells are largely visible. And about 100000000000000000000 other things that we DIDNT do. And the 100000000000000 safety rules we didnt have before Sept. 11th,  and that we still DO NOT have.

WTF?

Did your meds run out?

Your posts are geting wierder and weirder, and making less sense.

What does "fueled our rockets" mean?

And are you seriously suggesting Osam Bin LAden was in the US at the time of the attacks - and that Bush let him leave??

Well,

He needed more information, and so his people were automatically trying to get it. The Prez doesn't need to leave the room and specifically tell them to find out more.

He needed to make a statement about the event, but he has people who know to set up a spot, and they were automatically doing that. The president doesn't need to tell anyone to set up a podium, they know they need to do that.

Sooo, all the president needs to do is stay out of their way for a few minutes, and collect his thoughts, and figure out a public statement.

Which is what he did, without scaring a roomful of kids.

Sounds like he did exactly the right thing.....

Usama and his family were in the US on September 11th.

Foreign leaders were allowd to leave the country for their safety.

So yes Usama Bin Laden and some of his family were flown to Saudi Arabia on Sept, 11th.

It is a general rule that we wont imprison visiting foreign leaders in our country if ever there was a war.  We would let them leave freely.

It is good for democracy,  but obviously not much else.  If we didnt have the law,  Usama would not have let the world know he was responsible.  And we could of probably figured out he was responsible.  And he would of been in the US for us to arrest.

So maybe we will change our foreign policy about foreign leaders visitng our country.  And they wont be allowed to leave if ever something happens.



Fueled our  ICBMS means filling them with fuel and warming them up.  Preparing them for launch.  "prepping".

So yes Usama Bin Laden and some of his family were flown to Saudi Arabia on Sept, 11th.

We know this because that fat POS Michael Moore said so.   His word is gospel.  

Bin Laden has been the US government's number one wanted terrorist since at least 1993, when I was first briefed on him.

There is NO EFFING WAY he was in the US, and then ALLOWED TO LEAVE.

You are full of shit.

He may have had "family" in the US.  I don't doubt that - do you have ANY CLUE as to HOW BIG his "family" is???  His father could have as many wives as he could afford.  That results in some big families.

The Saudis want Bin Laden DEAD.  He fled to Afghanistan to avoid HIS FAMILY.  To link those Saudi members of his family - who HAVE DISOWNED HIM - to him directly is dishonest and ridiculous.

You are an idiot.

Edit - apparently based on the responses you are getting your info from MICHAEL MOORE?!?!?!

You are beyond hope.  Grow up.

He should have sent the flying nun to take out the other planes with a barret 50.

What the hell could he have done?

He did the smart thing.

If he had jumped up out of that seat and run screaming from the room or shown any kind of weakness at that moment ... the terrorists would have won big time. Bush showed strength and resolve and he kept his cool. He could have torn out of there and scared the hell out of those kids and given the terrorists a good laugh.

It's sad to me. I unfortunately witnessed F911 and you can see the look of horror and pain etched on the poor guy's face.

Yeah, he sat there and finished the reading with the kids. Big deal. You know what I did on 9/11? I sat at my computer desk with my mouth agape for half the day unable to form a coherent sentence. He's *human*.

Quoted: Fueled our  ICBMS means filling them with fuel and warming them up.  Preparing them for launch.  "prepping".

And if he did that, you'd be screaming that he's a cowboy thug who nukes first and asks questions later. You just can't win with Liberals.

Where was Kerry, and what was he doing after 9/11? What has he done to help the War on Terror (other then a lot of hot air out of his mouth)? What has he done to respond to or prevent any terrorist attack, including the ones before Bush was President?

Quoted: Usama and his family were in the US on September 11th. No he was not, some relatives where in the US, do have any clue how many relatives he has?  He's the the seventeenth of 53 children.  His father was married ten times, although to no more than four women at a time.  He has married five times and  has fathered at least 24 children.  We haven't even gotten into grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Foreign leaders were allowd to leave the country for their safety. after being cleared So yes Usama Bin Laden and some of his family were flown to Saudi Arabia on Sept, 11th.he wasn't here forget it and they didn't fly out of the US until at least September 13 later is more likely Get some new material, www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm Fueled our  ICBMS means filling them with fuel and warming them up.  Preparing them for launch.  "prepping". You don't fuel solid fuel rockets, don't even talk about what is neccesary to prepare an ICBM to fly, you don't have a clue.

ETA it's Osama, fumble fingers, put down the twinkies to type, I know you're trying to emulate your hero Michael Moore but being fat dumb and stupid is no way to go through life.

The other side was waiting for anything to give them an excuse to bash Bush so whatever good reasons you give them they will say "He should have done something"

Here is what how I explained to a few of my fiancee's friends, who asked the question:
1)  When the first plane hit Tower One or Two, everybody thought it was an accident, I know, I was driving into Edwards AFB at that point of time.
2)  When the second plane hit the other Tower, most people thinks it was an attack, but were hoping it was a very freak accident.  A few radio stations thinks it might be an attack.  I was in Edwards AFB at that time, getting ready to go to my flight test station.
3)  Everybody knows it was an attack when the Pentagon got hit, too much of an coincidence.
4)  The only thing President Bush can do at that time is to order Threat Con Delta, which he did, and order Def Con 4, authorizing the release of the nuclear weapon, which he did not.  He also need to get more info from his staff to make better decision, which means he need to stay put .  If he leave immediately, he will panic everybody, which is not good.
5)  This nation do not invent responses when crisis hits, all responses are pre-planned, and everybody have a specific task to perform and location to go.  The president will make decision once all these pre-planned steps were taken.  This also gives the president time to gether information and access the situation.
6)  It took nearly 30 minutes before the first squadron of F-16 to response and on orbit.  These three F-16s have dummy missiles, and 20mm rounds, and they were discussing among the pilots who will ram the missing airliner (one plane was still missing).  The radio call was published in Code One a Lockheed Martin internal magazine (I work for them).
7)  One need to appreciate the scale of how many A/C are flying in US airspace at any time.  I used to work flight testing, and have looked at air traffic radar, and it is amazing how much A/C are in the air at any one time.

Sorry for the long post.

Leungken

Quoted: Quoted: The teacher was a 250 pound middled aged black woman you racist

+1

Whats wrong with the black women!

Would you like Beyonce?




If you wouldn't hit Beyonce

click here www.whitecivilrights.com/news/2001/press_release_05-08-01.shtml

raise and wave your confederate flag you redneck

Yeah he stepped on it bad ---


when your the president of the USA and your told "the USA is under attack"

your leave the school right then and there.

He is not the shiniest nickel in the pot for sure.

man, if Kerry were president, this would never had happened. He would have personally stopped the plane with his bare hands before it hit the tower, then he would have used telekenetic powers to kill Osama, will simultaneously solving world hunger, curing cancer, and bringing world peace.

Quoted: Bush couldnt really DO anything because no one knew EXACTLY what was really happening. Also, there are already contingincies in place for when the US is attacked. Many of these things happen automatically without the POTUS having to lift a finger. D. AZEX

I mostly agree. And as far as the "Do SOMETHING do ANYTHING mentality, sometimes "Don't just do something, stand there is BETTER than the alternative.

However, _I_ knew it wasn't an accident (okay 99.9% certain) and I understand that not wanting to upset the kids and all, but how difficult is it to say, "Sorry kids, something has come up, and I need to go attend to it. I enjoyed (whatever he was there for besides warm fuzzies for Florida) and thank everyone so much for having me." Then LEAVE!??

So, IMO the DU dummies are out of line, but so was Bush (not that 2-4 minutes would have accomplished much anyway). It just disturbs me that he went into brain lock... then again if it were mostly MY responsibiliy(to deal w/it)... maybe I'd've had brain lock too ;)

Though even the most ardent Bush supporters HAVE to acknowledge that just sitting there probably wasn't the BEST move he could have made. Anyone who believes otherwise is too partisan to be helped. I'm just saying it didn't LOOK good - THAT'S why, IMO, it was a bad move. Not that he could have DONE anything useful (maybe he could have, maybe not, I've no idea), BUT he could have saved himself being on camera while he attempted to process the info.

As soon as that second plane hit, he should have politely excused himself.  For all anyone knew, a plane or a hit team could have been heading straight for that school.