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Posted: 10/29/2004 1:44:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Why would an oil company whose main function is to maximize profits, want cheap oil? Consumers hands down. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 1:46:04 PM EDT
[#2]
IF (did you notice I said IF?) GW went into Iraq for oil, we the consumer would never ever see a cent of savings. Oil companies and those who profit from them would never pass their savings onto their consumers.
BTW did you notice I said IF???? |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 2:07:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Oil is much more than the price at the gas pumps
it is the cost of food on the shelves -- how do you think it gets there??? it is the cost of plastic trash bags - made from oil by products it is the cost of almost everything --- we are so screwed as long as the rich are in charge in this country --- and make no mistake they are ! And most likely will be forever. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 2:10:12 PM EDT
[#4]
$$$$$ talks...bullshit walks...
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Posted: 10/29/2004 2:12:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Marx couldn't have said it better. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 2:14:18 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 10/29/2004 3:25:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Simple allusions to a communist writer do not make you correct and me wrong. Fact is as long as there are sheeple who go with the flow --- the rich will get richer and the poor -- or in the case as it is today the middle class will struggle harder and harder to keep the rich ---- well rich. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 3:30:18 PM EDT
[#8]
[ar15armchaireconomist]how many times do i have to tell you guys? it's all about supply and demand[/ar15armchaireconomist]
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Posted: 10/29/2004 3:33:44 PM EDT
[#9]
DO you want the Poor in Charge of this country ?? Everyone bitches about the rich but they want to be rich themselves. 
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Posted: 10/29/2004 3:35:34 PM EDT
[#10]
People dont realize that China is buying all the oil they can, therefore driving up the price. We will only get cheap oil again when Chinas economy crashes. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#11]
If you believe the President has any control on oil prices you are an imbecile. Why would any President push oil prices up (if he could which he can’t) BEFORE an election and not after. You so blinded with stupidity you cannot see the most basic flaws in your very flawed and twisted thought processes. If the president was so powerful he could really control oil prices they would be down now idiot not up. Oil at today’s prices is not as high in real dollars as they were 70’s and certainly no where near the real dollar price of the 70’s oil crunches. You simply don’t have any idea in hell what you are talking about. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 3:51:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Anyone who believes expensive oil is in anyone's interest doesn't understand the economy. If oil prices rise, so do consumer prices and the economy goes into the gutter. That's not good for the people, the driving force of any economy. That's not good for the rich, they lose money on investments. And it's not good for oil companies because high prices drive down demand for their product.
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Posted: 10/30/2004 6:01:07 AM EDT
[#13]
You may be the dumbest person I ever met on the boards. If Clinton could do it ---------- Bush should be able to. Please stay out of this thread if all you can do is PARROT what the money mongers say. Because your obviously too stupid to think for yourself. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 6:40:16 AM EDT
[#14]
That's why you should vote for my friend, Louie, for President. - Louie has never had a promotion. - In spite of his Union membership, Louie has NEVER made more than $12/hr. - Louie almost graduated from high school! - Louie consistently makes choices that keep him broke until payday. - Louie promises to reform social security by investing the money in lottery tickets. Do your part to remove smart, successful people from office - VOTE LOUIE! |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:00:24 AM EDT
[#15]
An absolutely brilliant argument. "Class hatred" is such a stupid Democrat policy. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:10:28 AM EDT
[#16]
You hit it on the head. Also add two more facts. Bush was filling the strategic reserves (for obvious reasons), and second, all of the opeckers would love to see Bush out of the Whitehouse. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:27:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Right 
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:32:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Blame ALL the oil companies. They're the ones who are screwing us.
Facts: Only TWO oil refineries are still in operation in the United States. All the others have been SHUT DOWN. The majority of the oil we use comes from Venezuela. In fact, some of OUR crude oil is sent to Venezuela, REFINED in Venezuela, and shipped BACK to us as refined petroleum products, mostly gasoline. YOU are paying shipping both ways PLUS refining fees! The Alaska Pipeline's oil goes entirely to JAPAN. Some years ago, "THEY" said that the sulfur content of Alaskan oil was too high and it wasn't really usable for American consumption. But the Japanese are refining it and removing the sulfur from it just fine! My plan for cheap gas: Reopen our refineries. Use them to refine Alaskan crude and all other crude we pump. Let the Japanese get their oil from Venezuela. Take all the decision makers from all the oil companies out behind the barn and shoot them in the kneecaps. Warn them that the next time they try to screw the people, the bullets go between the eyes. Or, nationalize the oil industry, putting it under direct government control. CJ |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:35:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Let them burn aviation gas!!!!
Here is a little story about government interfering in the market. It also clears up a bogus quote, "Let them eat cake". Our old pal Cecil Adams of The Straight Dope explains the quotation was first written by French philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau in Confessions. Actually, Rousseau wrote "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche," which essentially means "let them eat a type of egg-based bread" (not quite cake, but still a bit extravagant). Rousseau claimed that "a great princess" told the peasants to eat cake/brioche when she heard they had no bread. But Rousseau wrote this in early 1766, when Marie Antoinette was only 10 years old, still living in her native Austria and not yet married to King Louis XVI. So it's highly unlikely that Marie uttered the pompous phrase. Perhaps Rousseau invented them to illustrate the divide between royalty and the poor -- which is certainly how the phrase has been used ever since. However, "Let them eat brioche" isn't quite as cold a sentiment as you might imagine. At the time, French law required bakers to sell fancy breads at the same low price as the plain breads if they ran out of the latter. The goal was to prevent bakers from making very little cheap bread and then profiting off the fancy, expensive bread. Whoever really said "Let them eat brioche" may have meant that the bakery laws should be enforced so the poor could eat the fancy bread if there wasn't enough plain bread to go around. A recent biographer claims that "Let them eat cake" was actually spoken by Marie-Therese, wife of France's Louis XIV, 100 years before Marie Antoinette, but we couldn't find anything online to corroborate this. Ultimately, we will probably never know who uttered this infamous phrase. The point is that there is an increasing demand for oil and and increasing interference in it's supply. This leads to speculation at best, hoarding in the long run and wars to control it. We're doing the heavy lifting for countries like China whose demand curve is the sharpest. Ours is leveling off somewhat comparatively. This keeps China happy and not so concerned with military adventurism, keeps the ME good for something and hopefully, with a more democratic government and a little capitalism they will not be a one item economy. Some day oil will be less important and the ME will have to depend on other industry to support their population. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:35:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Run for president --- I would vote for you. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 7:45:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Where do you get this information. It just doesn't make sense. www.energy.ca.gov/oil/refineries.html tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip.asp Refinery capacity still around 90%. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:01:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Only TWO refineriers in operation in the US. Cmjohnson, you haven't been to Houston lately have you!
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:03:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Well than lets crash it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:05:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Unless the only refineries are in Roxanna and Wood River Illinois, then I'm calling bullshit.
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:10:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Really?
I could be misinformed. It's happened once or twice. I guess I should research it. CJ |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:16:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Research it? There's a novel approach, and totally not inline with the ARF.com way of doing things. 
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:23:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Alaska oil does not go to Japan. Period!! Most of it goes to the west coast.
There are several refineries operating in the US. I do work at a number of them. Oil companies do not want $50 a barrel oil. It encourages alterative fuels for one thing. $30 barrel oil is good for the oil companies and the economy. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:24:44 AM EDT
[#28]
I simply cannot imagine anyone complaining about the actions of oil companies when Americans pay such an extraodinarily low price for gasoline when compared to other parts of the Industrialized World.
If we can bitch and complain, then the Europeans should be sending their own suicide bombers into the offices of 'Big Oil.' We are simply spoiled and we do not recognize that it is the overregulation of our own oil industry that has given us the delimna in which we now find ourselves. Besides which, do we believe in Capitalism and the free marketplace, or do we not? If we are no longer Capitalists in our economic views, then someone forgot to send me the memo that said we were now facist or socialist in our economic philosophy. And I don't remember ever voting on such a monumental change in our nation's direction. Eric The(ÜberKapitalist)Hun 
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:35:40 AM EDT
[#29]
If that's our fate, it is a good one. Every measurement of living standard, historically, indicates a strong correlation with the 'American way' and prosperity for the greatest number of people. Put simply, the truth disagrees with you on the meaning of the word 'screwed.' |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 8:45:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Hey, cyanide, when was the last time a poor felllow gave you a job?
Are you a socialist or a facist, thet you desire the government picking and choosing 'winners' in the business place? Go establish your own fricking country - this one is and always should be a capitalist nation. Capitalism brought us where we are today. What you are suggesting brought Bangaladesh where it is today. Eric The(ToEachAccordingToTheir Needs...NOT)Hun
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Posted: 10/30/2004 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Okay, cm, old buddy, let's get a couple of things straightened out, if I may.
While capacity is down, there are a heck of a lot more refineries than 2. There are a half dozen in the town I live in. Many, many more in Houston.You just were told bad data.
Much does come from Venezuela. But only a small amount of refined products come from there.
Again, you were given bad data. Most Alaskan crude is refined in the northwest and sold to US markets. The refinery I worked at in Port Arthur, TX, used oil from Saudi Arabia, which is a very high sulfur crude, called "Sour Crude". We just had to remove the sulfur, mostly in the form of Hydrogen Sulfide gas, and convert it to liquid sulfur. We had units specially designed to run sour crude. It made our refinery more profitable than most. But more and more stringent environmental laws made it tougher and tougher to run the units. Now, I'm not saying there shouldn't be laws regulating sulfur emmisions at refineries. But some of the rules were just about impossible to obey. Obeying them costs a lot of money. Guess who pays for the extra equipment? That's right; you and me.
Not a bad plan.
We cannot control where Japan, or anybody else, gets their fuels. The free market determines that.
Actually, having worked for some of the arrogant idiots that are in charge of refineries, I kind of like that idea. But it is illegal. 
Holy cow, CJ. Do you realize what you're saying? Do you really think the gooberment can run American businesses better than the free market? Nope. This great country was founded on the free capitalist model. It is what has made this country so great. It is the best system in the world. We sure don't need to change it. A better idea is to get the stinkin' gooberment out of the way of business and let the system determine prices and profits. That's what works best. And that is what has made America great. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 10:51:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Well, when the free market ends up getting screwed up the wazoo by all the big oil companies and oil producing nations getting together and conspiring to jack up the prices beyond all reason or else shut down the supplies, it's beyond argument that decisive action needs to be taken.
Thieves get shut down eventually. Big Oil is definitely a thief. Over 50 bucks a barrel for crude oil, MY ASS! I may be off base on some of what I've said, but when big businesses are monopolizing an essential market and RAPING US, maybe it IS tome for a little government intervention. The free market is wonderful, but personally, I think that all essential services and markets that are fed by just a few large and powerful companies should be subject to close oversight by the government and made to play by the rules in order to ensure that rates are fair and applied equally. All utilities, and the fuels industry. And when it comes to the utilities, they should all operate with universal standard equipment and protocols so that anything that needs to be done in California is done exactly the same way that it's done in Florida or New York. For the most part, we DO have that part in effect now. Fortunately. Left to their own devices, any businesses that can achieve a monopoly or work in collusion with their competitors to achieve the same effective result will attempt to do so. Effective obstacles must be placed in their way to keep that from happening. CJ |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:07:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Ummm, cmjohnson, you're voting for Senator Kerry, aren't you?
No one with an attitude of yours can possibly be a supporter of the President...or of the ecenomic system that brought our nation to its present height! Yeah, 'let's nationalize the oil industry'! It so helped the Soviet Union to have a command economy, didn't it? Sheesh! When did they stop teaching Economics 101 in high schools, anyway? Eric The(AboutTheSameTimeTheyDroppedCivics101,IWouldImagine)Hun
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:13:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Your right though --- I am becoming a Democrat after this election --- all the Republicans can do is screw the people and yell patriotic oaths from the soap box |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:17:38 AM EDT
[#35]
All they can do? All they can do? Have you already forgotten that the so-called Assault Weapon Ban expired a couple of months ago? That seems like an example of the kind of results I want out of a party. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:19:23 AM EDT
[#36]
I do not need my guns if I can not afford ammo to shoot them am to sick to enjoy them and can not afford medical insurance can't afford the gas to go to the range wall hangers I can do without. If this is all the republican party has to offer up --- you can keep your guns ---- they can stuff it. I will work to get a gun friendly democratic party --- after this election as we all should. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:19:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Name me one poor person that ever ran a successful country. Sgatr15 |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:33:11 AM EDT
[#38]
The rich are rich because they do whatever it takes to become successful. The poor stay poor because all they do is bitch and don't do anything to change their own situation. They sit back collecting their welfare while at the same time cursing the government that gives it to them.
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:36:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Sure you do. The Second Amendment assures us that God has given us the right to have guns and carry them. Both for self defense and to keep evil government at bay. But you can "afford" to shoot them, if you learn to budget your money.
It is not the gooberment's job to supply you with health care. If you want health care, budget your money and pay for it yourself. Has self-sufficiency completely died in this country? Can you imagine one of the brave men that conquered the wild west whining, "The government ought to take care of me!"
Sure you can afford gas. Just budget your money and do without other things that are not as important as fuel for your vehicle. That's what I do.
I don't have any "wall hangers" either. We are in agreement on that one.
I was just giving one example of the kinds of things a conservative party does in contrast to a liberal party like the Democratic party. It is not, by any means, all the Republican party has to offer. This list of issues where the Republican party has better ideas than the liberal Democratic party is a long and good one. You know what the issues are, I'm sure.
Why thanks! I appreciate that.
No reason that they should. They are doing exactly what they need to do.
And you will be totally wasting your time. The liberal Democrats will never support gun rights. They believe that they know what is best for you. And they don't want you armed, just so you can't disagree with force. Personally, I believe that you are more intelligent than this and are just being argumentative. But, of course, that isn't exactly a new thing on AR15.com. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:39:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Most of you complainers have no idea what it takes firstly to find the oil. Then at great expense you have to drill, extract, transport, refine, transport to the seller who has to make a profit also. Of course there is probably a storage stage in there as well. Producers do not always find oil when they drill. It is a very costly thing and PEOPLE GET KILLED and MAIMED doing that kind of work.
You want cheaper gas, tell your senator to allow drilling in ANWAR. Tell them to allow drilling off the west coast. Tell them to allow drilling of the east coast. A small hand full of people are blocking the rest of us from cheaper oil. The Inuits want to drill ANWAR, the Alaskans want it, their government wants to drill.....whats the problem. What would the people of California say if the US government would not allow the movie industry to operate there? What would the people of Colorado say if the government stopped all skiing in the Colorado? What would the people of Arkansas say if the U.S. Government outlawed incest........oh, nevermind |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:40:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Fixed it for you Komrade. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 11:50:32 AM EDT
[#42]
I left a 70k job in the oil field to enlist after 9/11.
try affording ammo on an e-4's pay, when your budget is normally big $. Thanks to the fallout from the Klinton admin, i am forced to practice with live ammo in my spare time, on my own $, b/c the army is still recovering from budget/pewrsonel loses. And in my experience, i have seen Texas oil produced at a loss, and sold to other countries AT A LOSS b/c this nation is obsessed with other countries oil. But things are getting better. And I vote Republican. And i still love SGTar15. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 12:05:22 PM EDT
[#43]
And also right now the oil rigs in the gulf are not up to par yet cause of the last hurrican. reply to opening up the reserves and if the president does open the oil reserves to lower the price ,who is going to restock pile it. When clinton opened it up it to this day they are still trying to restock it . so look at it this way sure opening it up will drop the price of gas but then you have to pay to stock up oil ,more oil will be taking out of the stock pile then we can put back in , so in the long run we will be paying more for oil to try and save a little on gas prices today |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 12:15:02 PM EDT
[#44]
I really don't think he has much at all to do with the price of oil. It is usually set by market conditions which are generally beyond his control.
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Posted: 10/30/2004 12:53:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Eric, I wouldn't vote for Kerry at GUNPOINT.
Bush all the way. Beyond any doubt. But it's fairly obvious that the oil industry answers to no one but themselves. It's beyond doubt that they should be put on a short leash. Either the people can do it, or the government could. Rule out the people. They won't do anything to upset their way of life even if they're getting screwed in the pocketbook at the pump as a result of their lack of passion. People bitch about high gas prices but they still have to get to work so they still pay it. They're slaves to their needs and the oil companies are loving every penny of it. That leaves the government. A chancy proposition at best, admittedly, but who else is going to do it? CJ |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 1:35:57 PM EDT
[#46]
So, when did the Government get in the business of picking a winner and loser in the marketplace? The marketplace controls the price of oil, for even those who are in the oil business recognize that there IS a price for a barrel of oil beyond which they are cutting their own throats by inducing the marketplace to actually look at alternative fuels. Also, I have heard it from reliable sources (Neil Cavuto) that even IF oil were to sell for $150.00 a barrel, it would not have as disastrous effect in the United States as it would in the rest of the world, so, whatever we're doing, we seem to be the top rail, all right. And you wish to replace the good old American system of energy pricing with that of Lichtenstein's? You must be daft, Sir! Eric The(WorldlyWise)Hun
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Posted: 10/30/2004 1:49:42 PM EDT
[#47]
No...the middle class generally struggles because they have 2 $500 car payments, more house then they can afford and several thousand dollars in credit card debt!!!! It's all about priorities, do you need Dub-2's on your car or do you want to put the money in some type of investment? I've heard so many people complain about lack of health care yet somehow be able to afford a $40K vehicle that I don't even care anymore...did I mention priorities? Bad luck always seems to knock on the door of those least prepared to answer |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 1:51:02 PM EDT
[#48]
You said a mouthful. High oil price hurt the US economy, high oil prices are devastating in the third world they mean destitution and starvation for very many. Once again in REAL DOLLARS oil/gas prices at today’s levels are still low, basically the same price as 20 years ago, lower that 100-75 years ago. AND they are going to fall back down to lower levels shortly |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 1:53:37 PM EDT
[#49]
And always have been. You had to be pretty well off to even vote in the beginning. If you can't manage stuff well why would you be able to manage a nation well? Planerench out. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 1:57:45 PM EDT
[#50]
The "good old American system of energy pricing" doesn't WORK when it comes to oil.
OPEC conspires to keep the prices high. They've been shafting us for a long time but especially recently. If they want more money they just close the supply valve a little. The oil companies are doing their part to ensure that this happens no matter what country they're working in. Even American crude is bought and sold at the prices set by the market for oil from OPEC. It could all be forced down to a reasonable level if for once ALL the oil buyers were to sit down, discuss the matter, and decide that at the next futures auction NOBODY will bid more than 20 bucks a barrel. Or any figure you care to choose. As long as they stuck with the plan, it'd work. Even the Saudis would rather get 20 bucks a barrel than not sell any oil at all. But don't hold your breath. It won't happen. Too much of the oil is entirely controlled by full featured companies that explore for it, drill for it, extract it, refine it, and send it to market. THEIR oil will remain absurdly expensive and they'll buy other stocks if the price is low enough, thereby forcing out the buyers who were going to try to force a lower price. The oil companies make unreasonable and unwarranted profits. The capitalist marketplace can't stop them. It's one case where free enterprise doesn't work as it was intended. So who's left to try to put the oil companies on a short leash and reduce their profits to reasonable and justifiable levels? The free market is wonderful, as long as it has a system of checks and balances. The oil industry doesn't have any checks and balances. They do as they please. That's a problem that needs fixing. CJ |
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