So today, the worlds oldest Parliamentray democracy surrendered to the EU, from now on we may be subject to the worst excesses of the extreme Socialist mainland europeans, their xenophobic hatred of all things Anglophile and American, and economically insane socialist policies without the power of veto.

We have been signed up to this 'Euro State Disaster in Waiting' by our Government without them asking first… we are promised a Referendum in 2006… I will vote against.

So…… the best of luck to the United States, the last independant non-socialist democracy in the western hemisphere… at least you can sit back and watch the unfolding socialist disaster from the safety of your side of the pond.

Andy…


Devastating effects of giving away our birthrights
by EDWARD HEATHCOAT AMORY, Daily Mail12:29pm 29th October 2004

PM Tony Blair has signed his name 25 times, once in every member state's copy of the new European Constitution.

He will, of course, still have to get it past the British people in a referendum, but this grand ceremony commits Mr Blair and his Government to doing their utmost to sell it to us.

But to what exactly is the Prime Minister putting our name? It has been so long in the creating that many will have forgotten the devastating impact it will have on virtually every aspect of our lives. Here, is a timely - and disturbing - reminder...

Foreign Policy

Despite desperate British efforts to call him the 'External Representative', for the first time the new EU will have its own Foreign Minister.

This person will 'conduct the Union's common foreign and security policy', and will have working for him an External Action Service, another piece of Brussels-speak, which actually means a fully-fledged foreign ministry and diplomatic service. Britain will have an obligation 'actively and unreservedly' to support the Foreign Minister's policy in 'a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity'.

We will also have to give up our historic seat on the UN Security Council if he wants it.

The Charter of Fundamental Rights

The Government fought desperately for years to ensure that this Charter - a list of the rights to be enjoyed in the new EU - would not have legal force as part of the Constitution.

Of course, like so much else, it lost that argument, and now we have a set of blanket rights, which can be interpreted by the European Court in any way it chooses.

So the right to strike could allow the Army and the police in Britain to strike for the first time.

The right to education could allow Brussels to dictate how British schools are run, and would certainly permit parents, pupils and teachers to appeal to the EU if they didn't like the way they had been treated.

The Charter would also create new rights to social security, housing assistance, health care and environmental protection, with potentially devastating effects.

The Constitution will effectively give Britain a Supreme Court, based in Brussels, with judges from Estonia and Lithuania.

Criminal Justice and Asylum

A major surrender here, since the EU would be able to pass 'European framework laws' that would permit Brussels to dictate what is an offence in Britain and what penalty its perpetrators should suffer.

The Constitution also allows for the creation of a European public prosecutor who could pursue criminals in the British courts, despite ministers insisting that they will never permit this to happen.

The Constitution undermines what remains of our right to run a national asylum policy.

The Right to Asylum in the Charter of Fundamental Rights gives the European Court control of our asylum system, and we have no national veto over the whole range of a much expanded 'common asylum policy'.

Bureaucrats in Brussels will also, for the first time, be able to tell British policemen how to do their job, by passing laws setting out the 'investigative techniques' they must use.

A European State

Ministers claim that the Constitution strengthens national democracy by giving parliaments, in the words of Tony Blair, the right to 'block Commission measures'.

This is not true. National parliaments can complain, but the Commission has no obligation to pay any attention to their objections.

What the Constitution does do is to give the European Union, for the first time, the right to sign treaties on its own behalf with sovereign nations.

It also specifies its flag, its motto (United In Diversity), its anthem (Ode To Joy by Beethoven), its currency (the euro, somewhat prematurely in Britain), and its national day (May 9th - which 'shall be celebrated... throughout the Union').

Defence

For the first time, the Constitution creates a mutual defence pact within the European Union _ we now have an obligation to offer Latvia 'aid and assistance by all the means in our power'. This rival defence pact undermines Nato.

The document also allows for the creation of a European Army _ described in the Constitution by the misleading phrase 'permanent structured co-operation'.

Mr Blair is not only enthusiastic about this army; he already knows what he wants to do with it. While visiting Africa earlier this month, he said that the 'top priority' for the European Rapid Reaction Force, as the new army will be called in its early stages, would be riding to the rescue of beleaguered African states.

The Economy

The EU, for the first time, will have the right to 'co-ordinate' national employment policies, and to draw up laws dictating workers' social security and social protection rights, working conditions and the 'modernisation of social protection systems'.

Once again, Britain has given up its veto and acquired instead a hard-to-use emergency brake system in this area. The Charter of Fundamental Rights also has substantial economic implications, as it includes a right to strike, the right to form trade unions, a right to fair and just working conditions and a right to collective bargaining.


www.dailymail.co.uk

After they gave up on the old coinage system, it was all down hill from there

I am truly sorry.

Maybe you could move to Iceland or Norway?

CRC

Wow, England has sure fallen from the days of the Empire.

Truly sad.

IMO, this is the main reason the EU loved Clinton, and hates Bush.  Clinton represented a person who was friendly toward this type of thing.  Bush is viewed as someone who will not only not join, but represents the individual behavior such an alliance is supposed to water down.

Quoted: where the hell is king arthur when you need him

Spinning in his grave along with Winston Churchill…

Andy

I thought you said a while back it was unlikely he would sign or am I mistaken?
What are the odds it passes the refferendum?
What status does it hold before the vote?
Wiil you get some gun rights back from it? I understand some EU countries have more liberal firearms laws. How will that wash?
Who all is in the EU?

Wow, I guess if you can't do it with a sword do it with a pen.  

The EU has gone from "bad" to "terrible" idea  


Idiots - all they will do is destroy everything good in europe by trying to homogenize and equalize everything with the third-world countries in the south of Europe.

Yep they are equating Estonia and Bulgaria with Denmark and France.

CRC

Vito, does this have any bearing on the UK adopting the Euro as currency? Any word on this? Thanks.

Quoted: I thought you said a while back it was unlikely he would sign or am I mistaken? What are the odds it passes the refferendum? What status does it hold before the vote? Wiil you get some gun rights back from it? I understand some EU countries have more liberal firearms laws. How will that wash? Who all is in the EU?

I thought you said a while back it was unlikely he would sign or am I mistaken?……

Many thought the Government would not go full speed ahead… there was a massive backlash in the European Parliament Elections held in Britain against this… @45% of the poll said no further integration or pull out. Now the Europhiles have 2 years to brainwash the sheeple into believing this is EU Constitution is a  wonderfull idea……

What are the odds it passes the refferendum?……

@2 years of Socialist Government propaganda and an unlimited PR budget… probably good.

What status does it hold before the vote?……

Already we are seeing laws being ammended or changes proposed to bring our laws into line… bad.

Wiil you get some gun rights back from it? I understand some EU countries have more liberal firearms laws. How will that wash?……

The EU Parliament wants to limit gun ownership Europewide. They have even been leaning heavily on Switzerland, which is outside the EU, to tighten up its gun laws! A number EU countries already have far more restrictive gun laws than Britain!

Who all is in the EU?

The 25 will be……Austria; Belgium; Cyprus; Czech  Republic; Denmark; Estonia; Finland; France; Germany; Greece; Hungary; Ireland; Italy; Latvia; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Malta; Netherlands; Poland; Portugal; Slovakia; Slovenia; Sweden; Spain; United Kingdom

… I've changes my sig lines to show how I feel at all this……

Andy

Marry yourself an American girl and sneak across the pond.

On second thought - that might be a bad idea .

Aw Andy this is bad news.

Quoted: Vito, does this have any bearing on the UK adopting the Euro as currency? Any word on this? Thanks.

Come 2006 if the vote is 'yes' they can order us to join… even though our central bank says it's a bad idea and will wreck our economy…

Andy

Quoted: Marry yourself an American girl and sneak across the pond. On second thought - that might be a bad idea .

It would probably be easier to link up with a Canadian girl; same language after all

Quoted: Quoted: where the hell is king arthur when you need him Spinning in his grave along with Winston Churchill… Andy

Not exactly,
"I see no reason why..there should not ultimately arise the United States of Europe"
Winston Churchill, 1946 (at the Hague, no less)
The man was the brilliant mind of the 20th century.

Quoted: Marry yourself an American girl and sneak across the pond. On second thought - that might be a bad idea .

It's a great idea.

Mine has big boobs !  

Let us know what it's like to be French.

Good luck vito113
ur gonna need it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: where the hell is king arthur when you need him Spinning in his grave along with Winston Churchill… Andy Not exactly, "I see no reason why..there should not ultimately arise the United States of Europe" Winston Churchill, 1946 (at the Hague, no less) The man was the brilliant mind of the 20th century.

Ideed he did, but he was talking about a freedom loving and capitalist Europe… not this socialist mess dreamed up by France and Germany…

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: where the hell is king arthur when you need him Spinning in his grave along with Winston Churchill… Andy Not exactly, "I see no reason why..there should not ultimately arise the United States of Europe" Winston Churchill, 1946 (at the Hague, no less) The man was the brilliant mind of the 20th century. Ideed he did, but he was talking about a freedom loving and capitalist Europe… not this socialist mess dreamed up by France and Germany… ANdy

I liked it better when France and Germany hated each other.

Those two countries are accomplishing now what neither Napoleon or Hitler were able to do alone.

How does the media over there play it? Are the Pro-EU, Anti-EU or indifferent?  

Quoted: How does the media over there play it? Are the Pro-EU, Anti-EU or indifferent?

My impression from reading Danish news is that a lot of people are not expecting it to be approved in all the referendums that will take place about this (at least 9 countries, possibly more, will have referendums)

The full text of what Churchill said was……

"I say here as I said at Brussels last year that I see no reason why, under the guardianship of the world organisation, there should not ultimately arise the United States of Europe, both those of the East and those of the West, which will unify this continent in a manner never known since the fall of the Roman Empire"

I don't think he was actually promoting the idea that Britain should be part of it though… only the divided european mainland…

He also traces the evolution of parliamentary government in Britain and characterizes the message of the English people to the human race as:

Freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom of movement, freedom to choose or change employment: the inviolability even of the humblest home: the right and the power of the private citizen to appeal to impartial courts against the State and the Ministers of the day: freedom of speech and writing: freedom of the press: freedom of combination and agitation within the limits of long established laws: the right of regular opposition to the Government: the power to turn out a government and put another set of men in their places by lawful constitutional means: and finally for all citizens the sense of association with the state and some responsibility for its actions and conduct.

I think this EU Constitution will destroy all the ideals he laid down as Britains message to the human race… Winston was our greatest Prime Minister… the best of both worlds, half English, half American.


Andy

I've never been to Europe.  Why is there such a willingness to be a union when the cultures are so different?  Is it the promise of a progressive paradise with unending peace (like the League of Nations)?

Quoted: Quoted: Andy Not exactly, "I see no reason why..there should not ultimately arise the United States of Europe" Winston Churchill, 1946 (at the Hague, no less) The man was the brilliant mind of the 20th century. I think he had in mind something more along the lines of the USA, where each individual state had a certain level of freedom, rather than a marxist Europa designed to eliminate the differences between each European state that makes them unique.

I think so too..  

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
 --  Winston Churchill

Who all is in the EU? The 25 will be……Austria; Belgium; Cyprus; Czech Republic; Denmark; Estonia; Finland; France; Germany; Greece; Hungary; Ireland; Italy; Latvia; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Malta; Netherlands; Poland; Portugal; Slovakia; Slovenia; Sweden; Spain; United Kingdom

I probably should have asked who isnt in it. I see, conspictuous by their absence..Switzerland and the Norges.

Quoted: Quoted: Marry yourself an American girl and sneak across the pond. On second thought - that might be a bad idea . It would probably be easier to link up with a Canadian girl; same language after all

Canadian girls are trouble

Stay tuned guys, this is comming our way too, sooner if Kerry get the win...

Quoted: Quoted: How does the media over there play it? Are the Pro-EU, Anti-EU or indifferent?   My impression from reading Danish news is that a lot of people are not expecting it to be approved in all the referendums that will take place about this (at least 9 countries, possibly more, will have referendums)

Although Denmark has been a thorn in the EU integrationists side… I worry that the 2 year wait till the referendums, backed by the whole weight of the EU Parliament on the 'yes' side will probably swing it for the integrationists in Denmark and the other sceptical states. It seems to be widely accepted as a 'probably yes' vote already here in Britain by most of the media.

Even if one or two countries say 'no' I expect the EU will pull some 'fudge' out of the bag to allow Integration to go ahead.

ANdy

PS: sorry vito113...hope in God!

Quoted: Who all is in the EU? The 25 will be……Austria; Belgium; Cyprus; Czech Republic; Denmark; Estonia; Finland; France; Germany; Greece; Hungary; Ireland; Italy; Latvia; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Malta; Netherlands; Poland; Portugal; Slovakia; Slovenia; Sweden; Spain; United Kingdom I probably should have asked who isnt in it. I see, conspictuous by their absence..Switzerland and the Norges.

The two nations with the highest rate of armed citizens in the world.. coincidence?

I think not.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How does the media over there play it? Are the Pro-EU, Anti-EU or indifferent?   My impression from reading Danish news is that a lot of people are not expecting it to be approved in all the referendums that will take place about this (at least 9 countries, possibly more, will have referendums) Although Denmark has been a thorn in the EU integrationists side… I worry that the 2 year wait till the referendums, backed by the whole weight of the EU Parliament on the 'yes' side will probably swing it for the integrationists in Denmark and the other sceptical states. It seems to be widely accepted as a 'probably yes' vote already here in Britain by most of the media. Even if one or two countries say 'no' I expect the EU will pull some 'fudge' out of the bag to allow Integration to go ahead. ANdy

Unfortunately I agree - there'll be plenty of time for the pro-EU crowd to peddle their snake-oil.  I've already read some grunbling (by countries like France and Germany of course) that countries that do NOT approve the constituion might be "thrown out" of the EU.  

Quoted: Quoted: <snip> I probably should have asked who isnt in it. I see, conspictuous by their absence..Switzerland and the Norges. The two nations with the highest rate of armed citizens in the world.. coincidence? I think not.

Ahhhhhh, good point. Your kung fu is strong.

So, in essense, 6 decades AFTER WWII, Germany finally conquers the UK and the rest of Europe. That shit just can't be allowed to wash.

For the Brits, resistance and revolution works! Follow the example that some "colonists" set a lil over 200 years ago.





-Free Great Britain

Quoted: So, in essense, 6 decades AFTER WWII, Germany finally conquers the UK and the rest of Europe. That shit just can't be allowed to wash. For the Brits, resistance and revolution works! Follow the example that some "colonists" set a lil over 200 years ago. -Free Great Britain

Why do you think they took away their guns? Armed resistance is impossible unless the guys who know where all the WWll caches are, are still alive.

666

Sorry Vito... See you soon over here...

It is my understanding that all involved nations must approve the constitution for it to become effective.  I don't think that will happen.  The Germans and the French look to be milking the whole thing; why should others allow themselves to be so mulcted. ?

The reason so many signed on, pure and simple, dor business.  NAtions (or, more accurately, their busioness "leaders" ) saw Euro signs in front of their eyes: the hell with national freedoms and their own people.  That was so obvious with Austria, for example.  An equally important observation from the Austrian entry into the union was the very close vote in the referendum.  It was sold on financial grounds.  If that doesn't come across, the referendum on the constitution will fail somewhere.

It is most disappointing to see Britain sign on to this.  Britain is not Europe.  I'd have to guess the business interests influenced it again.  Have they stopped reading Churchill's "History of the English Speaking People"?  I would also recommend  MacKay, "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds."

I hope Britain does not wind up fighting another battle of Agincourt.  May the result be the same.

Quoted: Stay tuned guys, this is comming our way too, sooner if Kerry get the win...

Ahh, I think not! We've the benefit of the civil populous being ARMED (heavily) and within us the desire to use those arms in this very instance. Stop thinking singular, for collectively, we comprise the largest army the world has ever seen.

Quoted: Who all is in the EU? I probably should have asked who isnt in it. I see, conspictuous by their absence..Switzerland and the Norges.

Norway rejected EU membership! Big thumbs up for Norway! but they may now reconsider joining up fully… Switzerland is already starting to feel the economic heat from the EU… they have just fully opened up their labor market to EU citizens. They are now a very small fish in a very large pond and are having to adjust their independent stance to fit in. Ultimately they will probably join the EU……

SWITZERLAND……"During the late 80s and early 90s, Switzerland participated in the negotiations of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. On 2 May 1992, Switzerland signed the EEA Agreement. A few days later, on 20 May 1992, the  Swiss Government applied for accession to the EC.

In a referendum held on the 6th December 1992, the Swiss people rejected the ratification of the EEA agreement. As a consequence, the Swiss Government decided to suspend negotiations for EC accession until further notice, but its application remains open.

Despite the above, the Swiss government has not abandoned its policy of long term Swiss integration into EU. To this end, it has established an Integration Office under the Department of Foreign and Economic Affairs. Its website provides the surfer with official texts, explanations, analysis and documentation in general about Switzerland’s European policy.


NORWAY……Despite two failed attempts by referendum to enter the European Community in 1972 and the European Union in 1994, the question of whether or not Norway should once again apply for EU membership is as present as ever as on the domestic political scene more questions are being raised on the sustainability of the EEA affiliation.

Following the rejection of EU membership by the population in the referendum of 1994, the then Labour government declared that there would be no new initiative in this respect for at least ten years. However there are signs that Norwegians are becoming aware of the anomalous position in which they have placed themselves, being obliged to take over rules that affect their lives and businesses very deeply, on which their government has only very limited influence.

This is accentuated by the impression that "Europe" to an increasing extent means the enlarged European Union with the accession of the 10 new member states from 2004. In addition, many EU policy areas that fall beyond the scope of the EEA Agreement have developed dramatically over the past decade, not least the EU common foreign, security and defence policy, where Norway frequently joins EU positions. Norway as been actively seeking a way to be associated with the process of CFSP/ESDP policy formulation [and is today associated to the ESDP through NATO and the Berlin + arrangements.] Norway participates in EU joint actions such as the EU police mission in Bosnia. In addition, Norway has pledged personnel and equipment to the ESDP Rapid Reaction Force.

Quoted: 666

Nah.. I see their 666 and I raise a 5.56

Quoted: Who all is in the EU? The 25 will be……Austria; Belgium; Cyprus; Czech Republic; Denmark; Estonia; Finland; France; Germany; Greece; Hungary; Ireland; Italy; Latvia; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Malta; Netherlands; Poland; Portugal; Slovakia; Slovenia; Sweden; Spain; United Kingdom I probably should have asked who isnt in it. I see, conspictuous by their absence..Switzerland and the Norges.

Actually, Norway has a NUMBER of unilateral agreements with the EU that actually committ Norway to have to follow large numbers of EU rules, laws, restrictions etc.  So Norway is currently getting a lot of the downside of the EU, and not much benefit.  On the other hand, they get to ignore fishing regulations/quotas, and are so wealthy that they don't relaly NEED the EU.

Welcome to the reunified Roman Empire. And it isn't going to get better in any way, form, or fashion. Just any increase in the strength of the socialist stockpens.

You're a couple of hundred years late but you're welcome to grab a westbound ship headed our way.

wganz
¶

Quoted: It is my understanding that all involved nations must approve the constitution for it to become effective.  I don't think that will happen.  The Germans and the French look to be milking the whole thing; why should others allow themselves to be so mulcted. ? The reason so many signed on, pure and simple, dor business.  NAtions (or, more accurately, their busioness "leaders" ) saw Euro signs in front of their eyes: the hell with national freedoms and their own people.  That was so obvious with Austria, for example.  An equally important observation from the Austrian entry into the union was the very close vote in the referendum.  It was sold on financial grounds.  If that doesn't come across, the referendum on the constitution will fail somewhere. It is most disappointing to see Britain sign on to this.  Britain is not Europe.  I'd have to guess the business interests influenced it again.  Have they stopped reading Churchill's "History of the English Speaking People"?  I would also recommend  MacKay, "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds." I hope Britain does not wind up fighting another battle of Agincourt.  May the result be the same.

Its exactly these fiancial reasons that will probably swing it for the 'Yes' vote… the saying 'baby it's cold outside' springs to mind, and a number of smaller countries have joined the EU because they are worried about being 'buried' by their 'rich' big neighbours economic power if they try and go it alone. The only country that is EuroSceptic and could go it alone is Britain… but our socialista re obsessed with joining whatever the costs.

As DK-Prof has also observed, the EU (aka France and Germany) are 'suggesting' the EU could expell any country that votes against integration, and for the smaller countries finding themselves locked out of the free trade zone would be an an economic disaster… so much for freedom of choice.

ANdy

Quoted: Welcome to the reunified Roman Empire. And it isn't going to get better in any way, form, or fashion. Just any increase in the strength of the socialist stockpens. You're a couple of hundred years late but you're welcome to grab a westbound ship headed our way. wganz ¶

And to think I just sold out my share of our Family Farm in Ireland to an Uncle who wanted to move back to Ireland to escape from Kalifornistan! Frank! turn around! Go back West!

Andy

Andy,
Maybe we can send a Liberty Tree over there - I would say it needs replenishment.

Dont give up Andy. You guys didnt give up when the Japanese bombed London!

On a serious note, it looks bad for you guys. How is that people let these things happen? I mean, I understand the mechanics of it but how do people keep forgetting history or missing the obvious warnings?
I am only a recent student of this countries great history and the brilliance of its Founders but their uncanny forethought astounds me. They left us with a Constitution and Bill Of Rights to save us from this shit.
Yet still, there are those in this country that would throw that all away and subjugate themselves to the chains of slavery for a few magic beans.
The uncanny stupidity and foolishness of people based on greed, envy and selfishness astounds me as well.

Andy, I hope you buried some guns man. You may have nothing left but revolution.