OK, in 1984 we had a conservative Republican, with 4 years in office.  Height of the Cold War, economy sort of in the dumps but turning around, some terrorist attacks against us, etc.  Reagan runs against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  He TROUNCES him in a major electoral landslide, one of the worst in history.

2004 - we have a conservative (not as much) Republican, 4 years in office, middle of war against terorrists, economy in dumps but getting better, he's running against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  And yet it looks very close Electorally.

What has changed?  Are we, as a nation, THAT much more liberal now than in 1984?  Has the news media (24 hour cable news, etc.) gotten that much more effective in tricking people with their liberal spin?  Is it the education system that has brainwashed the masses?

What is your thought on the matter?  What explains the difference?

i'm not convinced President Bush isn't going to trounce kerry

Mondale is a conservative compared to sKerry.

Quoted: OK, in 1984 we had a conservative Republican, with 4 years in office.  Height of the Cold War, economy sort of in the dumps but turning around, some terrorist attacks against us, etc.  Reagan runs against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  He TROUNCES him in a major electoral landslide, one of the worst in history. 2004 - we have a conservative (not as much) Republican, 4 years in office, middle of war against terorrists, economy in dumps but getting better, he's running against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  And yet it looks very close Electorally. What has changed? Are we, as a nation, THAT much more liberal now than in 1984?  Has the news media (24 hour cable news, etc.) gotten that much more effective in tricking people with their liberal spin?  Is it the education system that has brainwashed the masses? What is your thought on the matter?  What explains the difference?

Yes, yes and yes.

I think eight years of clinton changed things. Calling pres. bush conservative is really stretching it though, the welfare state has grown tremendously under his administration. Dont get me wrong, bush has my vote, but he is more of a moderate than a conservative.

Quoted: I think eight years of clinton changed things. Calling pres. bush conservative is really stretching it though, the welfare state has grown tremendously under his administration. Dont get me wrong, bush has my vote, but he is more of a moderate than a conservative.

Let's face it, Bush is a liberal. But Kerry is a Leftist!

20 years ago there wasn't an issue like Iraq that was in everyone's face every day. The mood in the country right now is much more like it was in 1968.

The tone of the political debate has changed considerably in that time. Mondale was a committed liberal who really seemed to believe in his chosen philosophy, regardless of how vacuous that philosophy may have seemed to us. I don't think that many would have characterize him as having had an almost maniacal drive to become President though.

Starting with Bill Clinton, any pretense of civility on the part of the left has been totally abandoned. No longer is their any kind of gentlemanly rules that govern their behavior. They have instead completely adopted the philosophy of the ends justify the means. This now means that there is nothing that they won't do, nothing that they won't say, and no one that they won't ravish, in the pursuit of their ends. The haven't just switched to the low road, they've run the truck into the gutter.

Quoted: Mondale is a conservative compared to sKerry.

True statement

In addition to the radical decline in the civility of the Democrats; or perhaps it should be stated as in concert with the general decline in morality and ethics among the population; the public is no longer intellectually capable of the higer level of political debate that we've seen in the past. I'm certainly not saying that there isn't anyone left at this level, I'm saying that the level of the masses is such that serious political discord is no longer possible. Just look at the level of ignorance among those Kerry supporters when they are asked to verbilize their support for Kerry in positive terms. Most don't truly understand the question, let alone the answer. Most can't point to one positive proposal that Kerry espouses - and it's because there haven't been any - but the Kerry sycophants are too dull witted to even know it.

These people are the product of their own self indulgenge in all that is superficial. They are the MTV gereration, they are the faithful watchers of all the unreal "reality" shows that proliferate on TV each night. They watch the nightly news (sometimes) on all the alphabet TV stations and never question the veracity of the reporting, partly out of a complete lack of understanding and education on the issues, but mainly because thay are too lazy to think for themselves. They are the product of the ever declining public education system in this country that is in the death grip of the teachers unions which has at the core of it's mission, not the welfare of the children in it's charge, but in it's own self preservation and power. The standards for the teachers education is so abysmal that the children's chances at a good education are doomed from the start.

If I had to encapsulate the whole debate with a succinct phrase it would be, "the dumbing down of America".  The Democrats get away with what they're doing because America is too intellectually lazy and too morally corrupt, to care.

And it's by the Democrats design that they are...

I voted for Mondale!  My first Presidential election.

GunLvr

And W is no Reagan...

Let's face it, Bush is a liberal. But Kerry is a Leftist!

Very true, although I would have said that he is an ULTRALEFTIST.

Quoted: OK, in 1984 we had a conservative Republican, with 4 years in office.  Height of the Cold War, economy sort of in the dumps but turning around, some terrorist attacks against us, etc.  Reagan runs against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  He TROUNCES him in a major electoral landslide, one of the worst in history. 2004 - we have a conservative (not as much) Republican, 4 years in office, middle of war against terorrists, economy in dumps but getting better, he's running against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  And yet it looks very close Electorally. What has changed?  Are we, as a nation, THAT much more liberal now than in 1984?  Has the news media (24 hour cable news, etc.) gotten that much more effective in tricking people with their liberal spin?  Is it the education system that has brainwashed the masses? What is your thought on the matter?  What explains the difference?

GWB is no Ronald Reagan.  

The biggest difference is that the Left no longer controls the congress and the agenda.  They still control the media and the media still trowels out tons of manure daily about how great the liberal Dem is and how evil the conservative Republican is.  Reagan got hammered while serving his country.  The difference was that he didn't have a bunch of crazy democrats about to pop a cork chasing him all the time.

The political firestorm we're in right now is due in a large part to the Dems being out of power for ten years how.  For ten years, they have pretty much been on the outside looking in and the country has been moving Right all along.  Clinton was an aberration brought on by masterful political lying, and a couple of less than stellar Republican candidates.  During his presidency, the libs were at least in charge of the executive branch.  With Bush in the White House...and there under the circumstances surrounding the 2000 election, the Left has had four years of constant stewing to upset their tummies and psyches.

At the same time, the liberal media has been taking a pasting from Fox and talk radio.  Reagan ending the Fairness Doctrine was one of the truly seminal moments and critical mega-happenings in our nation's history.  That led to Rush, et al and revived AM radio.  For the first time ever, Americans now hear an alternative slant on the news.  We now hear the TRUTH, rather than liberal bullshit.  This is beating the hell out of the liberal media and making them as crazy as their man in the street liberal pals.

At this moment in time...liberalism is on the wane.  That is very disturbing to lots of folks who grew up on a diet of socialist pap taught at our campi in the '60s and '70s.

If Bush wins, the Democratic Party will likely have a huge schism.  It will be interesting to see who comes out on top...the Lieberman "moderate" wing of the party...or the Howard Dean/Dennis Kucinich socialist wing.  If they take the latter...that party is doomed and we'll likey see a major breakup.

In all my years, I've never seen the American electoral so up tight and pissed off at each other.  I really do fear for my Republic.  There are those among us who would gladly destroy their own country in order to set up their ideal socialist state.  In the old days, we hunted those assholes down and threw them in the clink.  That isn't considered cool any more...

I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP .

Quoted: OK, in 1984 we had a conservative Republican, with 4 years in office.  Height of the Cold War, economy sort of in the dumps but turning around, some terrorist attacks against us, etc.  Reagan runs against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  He TROUNCES him in a major electoral landslide, one of the worst in history. 2004 - we have a conservative (not as much) Republican, 4 years in office, middle of war against terorrists, economy in dumps but getting better, he's running against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  And yet it looks very close Electorally. What has changed?  Are we, as a nation, THAT much more liberal now than in 1984?  Has the news media (24 hour cable news, etc.) gotten that much more effective in tricking people with their liberal spin?  Is it the education system that has brainwashed the masses? What is your thought on the matter?  What explains the difference?

I think a big part of it was that Vietnam sores were beginning to heal, and everyone was united to worry about communism even more.... There's nothing really uniting us right now as a nation, which is a tragedy, as we should still be united against the terrorists that attacked us but we aren't... I blame the liberals

Quoted: I voted for Mondale!  My first Presidential election. GunLvr

wtf?

Quoted: Quoted: OK, in 1984 we had a conservative Republican, with 4 years in office.  Height of the Cold War, economy sort of in the dumps but turning around, some terrorist attacks against us, etc.  Reagan runs against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  He TROUNCES him in a major electoral landslide, one of the worst in history. 2004 - we have a conservative (not as much) Republican, 4 years in office, middle of war against terorrists, economy in dumps but getting better, he's running against a liberal who promises to raise taxes.  And yet it looks very close Electorally. What has changed?  Are we, as a nation, THAT much more liberal now than in 1984?  Has the news media (24 hour cable news, etc.) gotten that much more effective in tricking people with their liberal spin?  Is it the education system that has brainwashed the masses? What is your thought on the matter?  What explains the difference? GWB is no Ronald Reagan.

he's as close as this nation is going to get.

Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP .

+1

No offence ladies, but 1 heartbeat away from being President of the USA is no place for a woman.

Quoted: Quoted: I voted for Mondale!  My first Presidential election. GunLvr wtf?

I was a young, dumb college kid.  And from Minnesota.

GunLvr

Don't believe the hype.

word.

Quoted: The biggest difference is that the Left no longer controls the congress and the agenda.  They still control the media and the media still trowels out tons of manure daily about how great the liberal Dem is and how evil the conservative Republican is.  Reagan got hammered while serving his country.  The difference was that he didn't have a bunch of crazy democrats about to pop a cork chasing him all the time. The political firestorm we're in right now is due in a large part to the Dems being out of power for ten years how.  For ten years, they have pretty much been on the outside looking in and the country has been moving Right all along.  Clinton was an aberration brought on by masterful political lying, and a couple of less than stellar Republican candidates.  During his presidency, the libs were at least in charge of the executive branch.  With Bush in the White House...and there under the circumstances surrounding the 2000 election, the Left has had four years of constant stewing to upset their tummies and psyches. At the same time, the liberal media has been taking a pasting from Fox and talk radio.  Reagan ending the Fairness Doctrine was one of the truly seminal moments and critical mega-happenings in our nation's history.  That led to Rush, et al and revived AM radio.  For the first time ever, Americans now hear an alternative slant on the news.  We now hear the TRUTH, rather than liberal bullshit.  This is beating the hell out of the liberal media and making them as crazy as their man in the street liberal pals. At this moment in time...liberalism is on the wane.  That is very disturbing to lots of folks who grew up on a diet of socialist pap taught at our campi in the '60s and '70s. If Bush wins, the Democratic Party will likely have a huge schism.  It will be interesting to see who comes out on top...the Lieberman "moderate" wing of the party...or the Howard Dean/Dennis Kucinich socialist wing.  If they take the latter...that party is doomed and we'll likey see a major breakup. In all my years, I've never seen the American electoral so up tight and pissed off at each other.  I really do fear for my Republic.  There are those among us who would gladly destroy their own country in order to set up their ideal socialist state.  In the old days, we hunted those assholes down and threw them in the clink.  That isn't considered cool any more...

excellent post!

Quoted: Quoted: The biggest difference is that the Left no longer controls the congress and the agenda.  They still control the media and the media still trowels out tons of manure daily about how great the liberal Dem is and how evil the conservative Republican is.  Reagan got hammered while serving his country.  The difference was that he didn't have a bunch of crazy democrats about to pop a cork chasing him all the time. The political firestorm we're in right now is due in a large part to the Dems being out of power for ten years how.  For ten years, they have pretty much been on the outside looking in and the country has been moving Right all along.  Clinton was an aberration brought on by masterful political lying, and a couple of less than stellar Republican candidates.  During his presidency, the libs were at least in charge of the executive branch.  With Bush in the White House...and there under the circumstances surrounding the 2000 election, the Left has had four years of constant stewing to upset their tummies and psyches. At the same time, the liberal media has been taking a pasting from Fox and talk radio.  Reagan ending the Fairness Doctrine was one of the truly seminal moments and critical mega-happenings in our nation's history.  That led to Rush, et al and revived AM radio.  For the first time ever, Americans now hear an alternative slant on the news.  We now hear the TRUTH, rather than liberal bullshit.  This is beating the hell out of the liberal media and making them as crazy as their man in the street liberal pals. At this moment in time...liberalism is on the wane.  That is very disturbing to lots of folks who grew up on a diet of socialist pap taught at our campi in the '60s and '70s. If Bush wins, the Democratic Party will likely have a huge schism.  It will be interesting to see who comes out on top...the Lieberman "moderate" wing of the party...or the Howard Dean/Dennis Kucinich socialist wing.  If they take the latter...that party is doomed and we'll likey see a major breakup. In all my years, I've never seen the American electoral so up tight and pissed off at each other.  I really do fear for my Republic.  There are those among us who would gladly destroy their own country in order to set up their ideal socialist state.  In the old days, we hunted those assholes down and threw them in the clink.  That isn't considered cool any more... excellent post!

+1

Quoted: Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP . +1 No offence ladies, but 1 heartbeat away from being President of the USA is no place for a woman.

oh dear lord.

there is one reason that england became THE dominant world power for 400 years.

her name was elizabeth.

but i guess she didn't know her place.

i suppose you won't be on the 'kay bailey in 2012' bandwagon, then.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP . +1 No offence ladies, but 1 heartbeat away from being President of the USA is no place for a woman. oh dear lord. there is one reason that england became THE dominant world power for 400 years. her name was elizabeth. but i guess she didn't know her place. i suppose you won't be on the 'kay bailey in 2012' bandwagon, then.

I tend to think that various aspects of English culture were more important than any one individual, or any 100 individuals. But certainly, Maggie Thacher proves that the right woman has the potential to be a great leader.

Quoted: Quoted: What has changed? Are we, as a nation, THAT much more liberal now than in 1984?  Has the news media (24 hour cable news, etc.) gotten that much more effective in tricking people with their liberal spin?  Is it the education system that has brainwashed the masses? What is your thought on the matter?  What explains the difference? Yes, yes and yes.

Good 'ol +1


More people need to listen to Rush, Medved & Savage.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP . +1 No offence ladies, but 1 heartbeat away from being President of the USA is no place for a woman. oh dear lord. there is one reason that england became THE dominant world power for 400 years. her name was elizabeth. but i guess she didn't know her place. i suppose you won't be on the 'kay bailey in 2012' bandwagon, then.

Don't shoot the messenger . There are still a whole lot of chauvinistic bastards out there . Quite a few of them here also .

20 years ago there was less politics taught in schools, now every freaked out little group is a little right and the GOP is  all wrong.

Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman Mafia-connected, NY hack politician running for VP .

Fixed it for you.  Could also say alleged tax-cheat.  And don't forget her coke-dealing son.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP . +1 No offence ladies, but 1 heartbeat away from being President of the USA is no place for a woman. oh dear lord. there is one reason that england became THE dominant world power for 400 years. her name was elizabeth. but i guess she didn't know her place. i suppose you won't be on the 'kay bailey in 2012' bandwagon, then. Don't shoot the messenger . There are still a whole lot of chauvinistic bastards out there . Quite a few of them here also .

was directed at bvmjethead, not you.  i think that you make a valid point, but it was a combination of female running mate and platform that killed mondale.

i honestly think that the fisrt woman VP will come from the GOP.  politically, it would be a very good move.

Quoted: The biggest difference is that the Left no longer controls the congress and the agenda.  They still control the media and the media still trowels out tons of manure daily about how great the liberal Dem is and how evil the conservative Republican is.  Reagan got hammered while serving his country.  The difference was that he didn't have a bunch of crazy democrats about to pop a cork chasing him all the time. The political firestorm we're in right now is due in a large part to the Dems being out of power for ten years how.  For ten years, they have pretty much been on the outside looking in and the country has been moving Right all along.  Clinton was an aberration brought on by masterful political lying, and a couple of less than stellar Republican candidates.  During his presidency, the libs were at least in charge of the executive branch.  With Bush in the White House...and there under the circumstances surrounding the 2000 election, the Left has had four years of constant stewing to upset their tummies and psyches. At the same time, the liberal media has been taking a pasting from Fox and talk radio.  Reagan ending the Fairness Doctrine was one of the truly seminal moments and critical mega-happenings in our nation's history.  That led to Rush, et al and revived AM radio.  For the first time ever, Americans now hear an alternative slant on the news.  We now hear the TRUTH, rather than liberal bullshit.  This is beating the hell out of the liberal media and making them as crazy as their man in the street liberal pals. At this moment in time...liberalism is on the wane.  That is very disturbing to lots of folks who grew up on a diet of socialist pap taught at our campi in the '60s and '70s. If Bush wins, the Democratic Party will likely have a huge schism.  It will be interesting to see who comes out on top...the Lieberman "moderate" wing of the party...or the Howard Dean/Dennis Kucinich socialist wing.  If they take the latter...that party is doomed and we'll likey see a major breakup. In all my years, I've never seen the American electoral so up tight and pissed off at each other.  I really do fear for my Republic.  There are those among us who would gladly destroy their own country in order to set up their ideal socialist state.  In the old days, we hunted those assholes down and threw them in the clink.  That isn't considered cool any more...

DAMN, shipmate!

Not bad for a knuckledragger!

Quoted: Quoted: I am preaty sure Mondale got his ass stomped because he had a woman running for VP . +1 No offence ladies, but 1 heartbeat away from being President of the USA is no place for a woman.

Well, not THAT woman, certainly!

Quoted: Quoted: I think eight years of clinton changed things. Calling pres. bush conservative is really stretching it though, the welfare state has grown tremendously under his administration. Dont get me wrong, bush has my vote, but he is more of a moderate than a conservative. Let's face it, Bush is a liberal. But Kerry is a Leftist!

No, Bush is not a liberal.