A little background:

My brother had a Wachovia account and ended up having a dispute with them about an 80 cent fee charged on that account. Over that, he decided to close his account with them. They then charged penalty on top of penalty for 40 days and sent him a notice yesterday (for the first time) that they were now going to charge my mother's account for HIS penalties.

My mother was on his account in case of emergency, just like she is on MY account. But she does not have a Wachovia account of her own.

But Wachovia being bought out by First Union a while back, they were not stopped by this little fact. So they decided that since my mother was on HIS account for emergencies, and also on MY account for emergencies, that they would TAKE THE MONEY FROM MY ACCOUNT TO PAY THEIR *$!%!$%! FEES. (Which of course were now in the hundreds of dollars...)

Which, of course, made me a tad angry.

So I call up the bank and explain things to them and they in turn tell me that it is perfectly legal to take money from MY account to pay off HIS balance because my mother happens to be named in either account. (She has never spent a dime from his account or from mine, so the idea that she had access to all of this is rediculous...)

I responded that while what they did may be LEGAL, that it didn't pass the court of common sense in the slightest. I, after all, had been a customer of Wachovia ever since they bought out Central Fidelity years ago. I had auto loans with them (which I had never missed a payment on) and credit cards (which I had consistently paid off) and always kept a fairly large sum in my account. To take money from me because of someone else's issue THOUGH IT MAY BE LEGAL, is utterly STUPID.

You would think that since First Union had such horrible customer service problems, problems so bad that they ditched their own name and kept the Wachovia name, that perhaps they would be more sensitive to screwing over a LONG TIME customer who had been very profitable to them.

You would think.

Unfortunately they like their policies more than their customers. I was hoping somewhere I would encounter someone with some COMMON SENSE that would see the chance to come through and prove their comittment to "customer service" which they were always blabbering about.

No such luck.

Instead, I was told to go get the money from my brother or my mother.

"My brother did not take my money. My mother did not take my money. YOU took my money for HIS problem, involving an utterly innocent 3rd party in all this. YOU took the money. YOU give it back." was my logical response.

Then the woman on the phone told me NOT TO BE RUDE TO HER.

"Pardon me?" I responded "I have tried to talk to a human being for 2 days now, calling several times and interrupting my entire life to get this straight after having been STOLEN FROM by ANY moral standard, and you are accusing me of being RUDE? Madam, you have not SEEN rude. But if you continue to aggravate me, you might just find out what rude actually is. Now connect me with someone who can fix this."

CLICK.

So they hung up on me.

I called back. I waded through the computer nightmare that is the Wachovia phone system and after much effort got through to a supervisor, who again repeated that what they did was legal.

"I understand it was legal. But here is what YOU need to understand. Over a dispute about 80 cents, you lost one customer. And then as a parting shot you fined him up the wazoo. When he did not pay you according to your wishes, you then decided to ROB ME  who has NOTHING to do with this to pay your fees. When I find this out, I am naturally puzzled and I try to get it resolved. Instead of finding helpful people, I run into one brick wall after another. I finally get through to someone in the collections department after much pain and aggravation, and then I get hung up on for insisting that this whole situation is silly.

Now the ball is in your court. You are facing a customer, and a darn good one, who has been put through the wringer for something he isn't even responsible for. Your entire organization has basically told him to go pound sand up to this point. Your organization has STOLEN from him (though it may be legal) and has acted as if he should be darn happy about the whole affair. What do you do?"

"Well sir, I am very sorry...."

"Hold on there. I have been through all the customer service training. I know that they teach you all that a customer wants to do is vent. Let them express themselves, and the problem will go away. I have heard all of that. It may work on the simple minded, but it does not work on me. I don't want to hear that you are sorry. I don't want to 'feel' validated. I simply want the money back in my account. Wachovia/First Union is the biggest bank in the universe. They will not remain the biggest if they alienate customers all the time. That is why they had to ditch the First Union name."

"Well our policy..."

"I am aware of your policy. Everyone has told me the policy. I can quote it better than you can. What I am asking you is this: Is your policy more valuable than your customer? Are you willing to loose me and the hundreds of thousands of dollars of buisness we have done together to this point over a measly 80 cent charge that is completely unrelated to me? Are your commercials and adds true, or are they simply a veneer to cover the most idiotic form of avarice in existence?"

PAUSE

"All I can tell you is that the money won't be refunded..."

"So you are saying that for the sake of 80 cents you are willing to sacrifice MY buisness that totals out to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now that is just bad buisness."

"That's not...."

"Oh but it is. Someone somewhere in your organization has the power to fix this. If you cannot, connect me with someone who can."

"There is no one else. The money won't be refun...."

"There IS someone else. YOU have a boss. He/She has a boss, and so on. What you are saying is that you are UNWILLING to do anything for me because your policy and your 80 cents are more important to you than I am."

PAUSE

"The transaction is legal and has already..."

"Yes, it is legal and has already been done. I am aware of that. So 80 cents is this important to you people? Over 80 cents and the resultant penalties, you are going to offer me up to the gods of greed. I knew when Fudged Unction bought out Wachovia that I should have dropped everything and left. I knew it. I won't be making the same mistake again. I will sooner bury all of my money in the back yard than put it in the hands of your organization EVER AGAIN."

PAUSE

"Well the pol..."

"Let me give you a tip. Drop the policy talk. Nobody at the state I am in wants to hear about your policy. They want to hear some common sense and that a fix is forthcoming. But you are unwilling to provide that. Within a month, all my accounts and investments will be out of your bank. I will NEVER have anything to do with your bank ever again."

"I..."

"Enjoy your money. You STOLE it. Your buisness WILL NOT succeed on ill-gotten gains. Enjoy your 80 cents and the penalties encrued, because they are the last bit of money this bank will ever see with my name on it. Or in my family, or my friends, or my co-workers, or the members of my church, or just anybody I meet on the street. What you don't realize is that when you negatively impact ME, that it WILL spread. I will tell everyone I ever knew, and they won't do buisness with you either. You can't buy ALL the banks up. Somebody will be willing to do buisness with me honestly somewhere.

Your orgznization can just rot. And when your execs are being carted off in handcuffs for finance violatons and your little retirement account is gone, remember this phone call. It is because YOU didn't take actions to help people like me that your organization is going to crumble.

Then maybe you will understand that for 80 cents it just isn't worth it."

CLICK

BTT.

Those Wachovia bastards have a huge dose of pain coming to them someday.

Ouch!

I went through a similar thing with my local bank. Someoone had debited $299 from my account and the bank was balking at getting it back. I had to climb the "pass the buck" ladder for 3 days till I got in touch with someone that found out "the bank had done this by mistake". About fricking time. I had to threaten legal action to find out the name of the name of the organization that had done the debit.

Quoted: Ouch! I went through a similar thing with my local bank. Someoone had debited $299 from my account and the bank was balking at getting it back. I had to climb the "pass the buck" ladder for 3 days till I got in touch with someone that found out "the bank had done this by mistake". About fricking time. I had to threaten legal action to find out the name of the name of the organization that had done the debit.

At this point I WISH it had been theft by somebody else. But when the bank steals from you, what can you do about it? All I can see is to take my money somewhere else.

I'm fairly happy with SunTrust.

Pretty sure though that somebody here has a similar horror story from every bank on the planet.

Quoted: I'm fairly happy with SunTrust. Pretty sure though that somebody here has a similar horror story from every bank on the planet.

I just finished dealing with a fiasco that Suntrust caused.  My girlfriend just opened a college checking account at the  beginning of the semester.  She finally got her debit card and checks and 2 weeks after the account was opened, some asshole in Madrid Spain took every cent out of the account.  So then we have to battle the bank saying "yes I am sure we werent in madrid last week" and they wouldnt refund the money until after an affadavit had been signed (taking two weeks).  In the end, my girlfriend was without her money for two weeks, the bank wouldnt explain how it happened and they STILL stuck her with the $8 ATM transaction fees.

sorry, had to get that one out of my system

I've been happy with Bank of New Hampshire, a subsiditary of Bank North

I have a worse story from Bank of America.  I'll post it later if this thread is still alive when I get home from work.

I must say, I've been pretty satisfied with Chevy Chase Bank here in the DC area.  (knocks on wood)

Sick these guy on them .... worked for me in the past .....

www.occ.treas.gov

Had to get First USA in trouble with them. I paid off a credit card ($3600) and FOUR YEARS LATER I get a call from a collection agency wanting the money! I had to dig up canceled check from 4 years previous and prove it got paid, then TWO YEARS AFTER THAT I had the SAME PROBLEM! all the while this is screwing up my credit... I then called the above government agency .... They all apologetic and compliant after that! problem went away .....

You can read between the lines if you wish

I "heard" of a fella who was charged 75 cents by a bank by mistake.  Policy at the time was not to refund "insignifcant" amounts below one dollar.

He paid them an entire one dollar bill.  It was duct taped to a large rock with a note stating "keep the fuckin' change".  It was delivered via air mail thru an 8'x10' plate glass window.....in January, in Marquette Michigan in the late 1970's

Does the statute of limitations run out on that sort of thing?

Thanks for that bit of info, I was thinking about getting an account there.  I will look somewhere else.

Quoted: Thanks for that bit of info, I was thinking about getting an account there.  I will look somewhere else.

Fantastic!

And when I close out my account soon I will be darn sure to tell them that it cost them ANOTHER potential customer.

These bastards deserve what they get.

I will NEVER do business with Wachovia - because their commericals drive me up the freakin' wall!!  


I'm not kidding - I have to change the channel because they irritate me so much!!  I would never give any business to a company with such stupid commercials.

BoTach, M1S, Wachovia .... NEXT!      

Quoted: Sick these guy on them .... worked for me in the past ..... www.occ.treas.gov Had to get First USA in trouble with them. I paid off a credit card ($3600) and FOUR YEARS LATER I get a call from a collection agency wanting the money! I had to dig up canceled check from 4 years previous and prove it got paid, then TWO YEARS AFTER THAT I had the SAME PROBLEM! all the while this is screwing up my credit... I then called the above government agency .... They all apologetic and compliant after that! problem went away .....

Unfortunately they say that what they did was legal, so they can't help me. But I will be darn sure to remember that adress for the future.

Quoted: I will NEVER do business with Wachovia - because their commericals drive me up the freakin' wall!!   I'm not kidding - I have to change the channel because they irritate me so much!!  I would never give any business to a company with such stupid commercials.

I despise them too. These commercials make it seem like they are your best friend and want to help you out. But they DON'T say that talking to a human teller more than 2 times a month will COST YOU MONEY, or that they will charge EVERY fee they can without fail or wavering.

They should make a commercial that is honest and says "We don't give a sh*t about you, your family or anything else. We want your money, and we want as much of it as possible."

At least I could respect THAT for being honest.

Besides the fed, most states have their own banking oversite agency. Call your state AG office.

Truth is every single bank out there feels that way. It's a business. They're in business to make money.

They've been very good to me. I'm staying.
My experience with banks throughout my life is that the service is branch related. That is that good service is found at the branch level. I have had shitty experience from one bank at one branch and good service from the same bank at a different branch. YMMV.

Quoted: I will NEVER do business with Wachovia - because their commericals drive me up the freakin' wall!!  have

I feel the exact same way. Good to know I'm not theonly one.

This is why my mortgage, checking account, savings accounts, are all through [Hometown] Federal Savings.

I've NEVER had a problem.

ETA, EXCELLENT RANT!  

I've had no problems with Fleet bank,  or Summit original who got bought out by them.  Twice I had issue....once was when Comcast threatened to send me to collections over a bill that I had paid with a check card. Went to my branch, and they called up Comcast directly, read them the riot act, faxed them the docs (all in my presence), and two weeks later when Comcast still hadn't unfucked themselves they went off on them again.

Second was when someone compromised my Paypal account. Everyone I dealt with at Fleet was courteous, and professional, and I was up and running with a new account in no time flat.

I used to be with Sovereign, but left them over a similar issue. Back when I was younger, and working at Best Buy, I was set up for direct deposit.  Everything was fine for months, until I got hit with two charges they paid out when I was 'below zero balance', not to mention the two 30 dollar charges they hit you with.  The funny thing is, my direct depo hit on a Thursday, and the two charges that 'put me under' weren't even made until Saturday and Sunday. I went in and asked them about it, and they really didn't have much of an answer, other than 'well, the direct deposit must have come in late'. Funny.....it showed up when I got my statement as posting then. I didn't bother to go up the chain, just closed my account then and there and went across the street to Summit.

Quoted: I have a worse story from Bank of America.  I'll post it later if this thread is still alive when I get home from work.

That sucks.......Fleet's getting bought out by BoA.....I don't want to have to shop for yet another bank!

wachovia is the spawn of the devil. I had numerous problems with them in the past. No more though....

wow. thanks for the heads up.

Thanks for reminding me why I love credit unions.

I haven't dealt with a bank in eight years and haven't missed it one bit.  

Try closing an account and leaving enough money in there to cover the one check that has yet to be cleared.  Wait two weeks and get a letter from the bank saying that your account has been overdrafted.  Seems the check didn't clear until after the first of the month and they HAD to stick me with that $20 monthly service charge because I only had like $15 in the account.  Then, because of the "overdraft", I get stuck with a $30 service charge.

I hate banks with all of their service charges and fees.  Now I pay $3 a month, free checks, checking, online banking and billpay, plus great interest rates on loans.

Banks can kiss my black ass.

That's why they are called "Walk-all-over-you." Never have I done any business with them, and now certainly will not.

Quoted: BoTach, M1S, Wachovia .... NEXT!

How did Botach screw up?

By the way, I have an update.

The original transaction that caused all of this? It wasn't 80 cents after all.

It was 8 bloody cents. 8. For less than a bloody dime, they screwed me over and have chased my buisness out the door. Over 8 mother ******g cents.  

I had a similar problem concerning an account my wife had at another branch before we were married.  Her checking account was closed 3 years earlier, never received any notices from the bank that she owed them money, bank insisted she owed them money, could not produce documentation to prove it, and insisted we pay it before they would add her to my account.  My reply was that I refused to do business with a company with that idea of customer service, and had them cut me a cashiers check for my account balances on the spot.  Bank manager almost shit himself when he saw how many zeros were on the check.

I have had good luck overall with Suntrust.  I had a recent problem with a check from an attorney's office after selling some land.  It cleared, I wrote some checks on it, then it wasnt cleared after all.  I will say that Suntrust handled the situation fast without any problems.  It helped that I had daily ATM recepts showing it had cleared several days before the checks were written.

I am pondering the idea of opening a money market account at another bank, using it as a backup account in case another problem develops with the primary checking account.  Luckily we had some cash at home to cover us until the bank straightened out the problem - everyone should seriously consider doing this.  What really sucks is having $8 in your pocket and the bank telling you that it may be 3 or 4 days to track down the problem, and oh yeah, you cant withdraw anything from the account until it is fixed.

If you can find a contact far enough up the food chain, a "Fire Mission" might be in order.
Just what kind of penalties could add up to hundreds?

Quoted: By the way, I have an update. The original transaction that caused all of this? It wasn't 80 cents after all. It was 8 bloody cents. 8. For less than a bloody dime, they screwed me over and have chased my buisness out the door. Over 8 mother ******g cents.

That is crazy.  I love my credit union.  I need a bank more accesable than my credit union so everyone tell your stories.  I don't want to suport a bad business.

Makes me glad I'm with a relatively small credit union.  

I hope someone at that bank hears about this BS and credits you the money stolen from you.  

You can't go wrong with usaa.com.  Excellent insurance and investment products.  They do damnnear all my financial stuff.  Only catch is you or a family member must be associated with the military in some way.

That's why I like small banks, though there are fewer and fewer around.

Good luck wiht them!

Quoted: Quoted: By the way, I have an update. The original transaction that caused all of this? It wasn't 80 cents after all. It was 8 bloody cents. 8. For less than a bloody dime, they screwed me over and have chased my buisness out the door. Over 8 mother ******g cents.   That is crazy.  I love my credit union.  I need a bank more accesable than my credit union so everyone tell your stories.  I don't want to suport a bad business.

Man, I feel your pain, but you did the right thing.  Wachovia screwed us over, too, my wife had an account with First Union. They charge lousy interest and have a fee for EVERYTHING.  I went to Netbank and never looked back.  If you can handle not having a local branch, give them a try.  The Netbank newsletter they e-mail you each month tells you HOW TO SAVE MONEY WITH THEM.  I have never seen another bank that actually understood that it is your money they are holding for you.  First Union's interest rates were shit (hey, whose aren't).

The worst bank I ever dealt with was NationsBank, which got subsumed by BankOfAmerica, which is now the worst bank on the planet.  They should name these what they are--BunchOfThievesWhoStealFromYouEveryWayTheyCan

I blame the MBAs--freaking fancy pants MBAs with smarmy attitudes who think that no one will notice if they cut costs by removing one pickle from the jar or make the bag of chips 13.5oz. instead of 16oz.  As a group, MBAs are the most cosmically clueless people I have ever seen and have brought ruin to many fine corporations across the USA.

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for that bit of info, I was thinking about getting an account there.  I will look somewhere else. Fantastic! And when I close out my account soon I will be darn sure to tell them that it cost them ANOTHER potential customer. These bastards deserve what they get.

I was just about to open and account with them to keep my 'allowance' separate from the bill money(credit union). I will look somewhere else. If you have an email address for this bozo I will be happy to let him know, too.


ByteTheBullet  (-:

I'm sorry not to sympathize, but if your mother's name was jointly on the account that owed the fee, it was jointly her account too.  So any charges from that account are jointly and severally her liability as well as your brother's.

And if she's on your account too, she is a joing owner of your account as well, meaning the bank can offset any amount she owes against your account.

If you don't want these kind of situations to arise, don't let anyone sign on your bank account other than you.

You can alway do what I did.

I bought one share of stock so I could go to the shareholder's meeting and promptly tell everyone there my story.

There is crucial information missing - are the accounts truly separate, stand alone accounts with your mother added to give her access, or are they somehow linked as joint accounts with your mother added as a third owner?  If the accounts are separate, go to the bank and fill out the paperwork to disable the linkage ("overdraft protection") that allows the bank to move money between accounts.  If your mother is not the primary owner of the account, I say they are in the wrong.  If Wachovia sees her as an equal co-owner, change her status for access only on your death or other prior approval.

Sounds to me like you need a new bank, probably a small, local privately held bank (sound familiar; support your local businesses), IMHO.

Banks employ the best help they can get for minimum wage, so don't expect a lot, because it ain't there to give.

This is why I won't bank with an operation that does not have a local office, in case I need to go straighten out their screw-ups in person.

been with Wachovia for about 18 months now, no problems whatsoever.  Wondering why your  brother put your mother's name on the account, there's no reason to do so.

Makes my Credit Union look better all the time.  If I ever have a problem one phone call usually will take care of anything.  Can't ever remember having to make two calls about anything.  Banks are just getting too big for their own good, don't care about you because you are just one of many accounts.

Quoted: If you can find a contact far enough up the food chain, a "Fire Mission" might be in order. Just what kind of penalties could add up to hundreds?

My brother's account got overdrawn by 8 cents.

So they charged him a 60 dollar fee. Which of course made his account -60.08. Which caused another 60.00 fee. Which makes his account now -120.08. So they charge another 60.00 fee. Which now makes the account -180.08....

Etcetera, etcetera, on up to a few hundred bucks.

Quoted: been with Wachovia for about 18 months now, no problems whatsoever.  Wondering why your  brother put your mother's name on the account, there's no reason to do so.

So in case of emergency, she can spend money on his behalf. Not an uncommon thing...

There is something called:  "IN TRUST FOR:.........".  Trustee without any legal obligation.

Quoted: You can't go wrong with usaa.com.  Excellent insurance and investment products.  They do damnnear all my financial stuff.  Only catch is you or a family member must be associated with the military in some way.

Actually, you can.  Or more precisely, I did.  Have been a USAA member for over 15 years.  Used to have all my Insurance through them in addition to some loans and CC.  Never even looked to see if another co was cheaper as they treated me well.   They non-renewed my homeowner's policy because I had too many claims.  Of course to them three claims in 5 years was enough.  

Do you know what those three claims were?  We had an ice storm that happened over two days.  There was a small amount of damage on day one when the power went out and ice built up on the roof (within my deductible).  On day two the ice knocked down a tree that broke a window (we were all away as we lost power).  And finally, we found that we had spoiled food from the power outage.  Despite the fact that the ice storm was a single catastrophy they detemined that the damage occured over two days and therefore was two seperate claims.  They also counted the food spoilage as a third seperate claim.

I got the state Ins. department involved and USAA agreed that the state catastrophy guidlines required it all to be one claim from one catastrophy.  But they would not amend the CLUE (like a credit report but listing your insurance claims) report and kicked us for claim activity.  State said they had no power to force the carrier to amend (or delete teh extra reports) its CLUE report to reflect one claim.  It was basically a wrong w/o a remedy.  The back story is that USAA was trying to limit its exposure in Kansas and used any excuse it could to drop insureds.  If it dropped them w/o a pretense the State could get involved as the regulator.

I got us placed with another carrier without difficulty (for a lower price to boot) and their agent said it was very suspicious.  I really enjoyed my Subscriber Savings Account that got refunded 6 months after we dropped USAA.  Also my whole family dropped them over this.  My dad was a USAA member since the early 60's and had all his ins with them.  My brother and I had both insurance and banking with them.  It is all placed elsewhere now.  They can pound sand for all I care.

That sucks Miranthis.  When I went with USAA my auto premiums dropped 55% (and being a male is my only risk factor), I got a smoking deal on a Roth IRA, and a very low homeowner's policy.  I guess I'll stick with them until I get a bad experience (knocking on wood, I've never had to file a claim with them).

Unfortunately they say that what they did was legal, so they can't help me. But I will be darn sure to remember that adress for the future.

I would verify that it was legal.

http://www.occ.treas.gov/

This will be an unpopular opinion.

So be it.

You and your family manage your financial affiairs in a way that exposes you to this situation.

When you put your mother on both of your accounts, that means she's an owner and depositor on both of those accounts.  And for the dozens of years, standard depositor agreements specify that (1) all charges to the account are the obligations of all owners of the account; and (2) if they're not paid, those charges can be "set off" against any other accounts owned by that individual.   By putting your mom on your account knowing she's also on your brothers, you made your money a guaranty on his affairs.  

Now, its seems to me that he should have paid the $.08 under protest, and then pushed up the ladder to get the charge reversed if it was inappropriate.  By refusing to pay, he brought your mother into it.

The bank gets low marks on customer service, to be sure.   But the way you structured your affairs opened the door.  Personal responsibility and all that.   Note that having her as a coowner of each of your accounts can cause problems if she passes away intestate (without a will).  

Wachovia made a mortal enemy out of me from my college days.  It's as if that company was founded by demons.  I had an MBNA credit card that got acquired by these dicks in college.  Fees for everything increased, increased minimum payments, membership fee added to a previously free card.  I had about $500.00 on the card at the start, one missed payment started a chain of events that led to a $750.00 bill by the time I could finally pay the bastards off.  Then after I had asked to have the account closed when it was paid in full, they left it open and hit me with the yearly membership fee and then socked me with another late charge for an additional $80 when I had no idea the damn thing was still active.  Of course there was no record of my request to close the account so they would not waive the fee for a person who had missed payments.

I'd rather burn than deal with them again.  My missed payment was my fault, burying me in fees till it hurt was within their rights, but for the rest of my now financially stable life they will not see another dime from me ever again... not EVER.  They were rude, and unconcerned in 98 and I see nothing has changed.

If you really feel wornged, small claims court may be the answer.  

Quoted: This will be an unpopular opinion. So be it. You and your family manage your financial affiairs in a way that exposes you to this situation. When you put your mother on both of your accounts, that means she's an owner and depositor on both of those accounts.  And for the dozens of years, standard depositor agreements specify that (1) all charges to the account are the obligations of all owners of the account; and (2) if they're not paid, those charges can be "set off" against any other accounts owned by that individual.   By putting your mom on your account knowing she's also on your brothers, you made your money a guaranty on his affairs.   Now, its seems to me that he should have paid the $.08 under protest, and then pushed up the ladder to get the charge reversed if it was inappropriate.  By refusing to pay, he brought your mother into it. The bank gets low marks on customer service, to be sure.   But the way you structured your affairs opened the door.  Personal responsibility and all that.   Note that having her as a coowner of each of your accounts can cause problems if she passes away intestate (without a will).

Nothing to be unpopular really.  It is within the law for them to do it.  But structuring your system to gouge people with fees that are 750% of the amount of the deficit and then using that to slurp funds from a third party who had nothing to do with the charge is a DEAD CERTAIN way to lose several customers permanately.  Stupid to do business that way, and word does get around.  Most people I know already have a negative impression of Wachovia for these reasons.  It was their right to do it, but even companies eventually reap what they sow.