www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2004410150366

A 17-member Army Reserve platoon with troops from Jackson and around the Southeast deployed to Iraq is under arrest for refusing a "suicide mission" to deliver fuel, the troops' relatives said Thursday.

The soldiers refused an order on Wednesday to go to Taji, Iraq — north of Baghdad — because their vehicles were considered "deadlined" or extremely unsafe, said Patricia McCook of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Larry O. McCook.

Sgt. McCook, a deputy at the Hinds County Detention Center, and the 16 other members of the 343rd Quartermaster Company from Rock Hill, S.C., were read their rights and moved from the military barracks into tents, Patricia McCook said her husband told her during a panicked phone call about 5 a.m. Thursday.
The platoon could be charged with the willful disobeying of orders, punishable by dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and up to five years confinement, said military law expert Mark Stevens, an associate professor of justice studies at Wesleyan College in Rocky Mount, N.C.

No military officials were able to confirm or deny the detainment of the platoon Thursday.

U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson said he plans to submit a congressional inquiry today on behalf of the Mississippi soldiers to launch an investigation into whether they are being treated improperly.

"I would not want any member of the military to be put in a dangerous situation ill-equipped," said Thompson, who was contacted by families. "I have had similar complaints from military families about vehicles that weren't armor-plated, or bullet-proof vests that are outdated. It concerns me because we made over $150 billion in funds available to equip our forces in Iraq.

"President Bush takes the position that the troops are well-armed, but if this situation is true, it calls into question how honest he has been with the country," Thompson said.

The 343rd is a supply unit whose general mission is to deliver fuel and water. The unit includes three women and 14 men and those with ranking up to sergeant first class.

"I got a call from an officer in another unit early (Thursday) morning who told me that my husband and his platoon had been arrested on a bogus charge because they refused to go on a suicide mission," said Jackie Butler of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Michael Butler, a 24-year reservist. "When my husband refuses to follow an order, it has to be something major."

The platoon being held has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., whose daughter Amber McClenny is among those being detained.

McClenny, 21, pleaded for help in a message left on her mother's answering machine early Thursday morning.

"They are holding us against our will," McClenny said. "We are now prisoners."

McClenny told her mother her unit tried to deliver fuel to another base in Iraq Wednesday, but was sent back because the fuel had been contaminated with water. The platoon returned to its base, where it was told to take the fuel to another base, McClenny told her mother.

The platoon is normally escorted by armed Humvees and helicopters, but did not have that support Wednesday, McClenny told her mother.

The convoy trucks the platoon was driving had experienced problems in the past and were not being properly maintained, Hill said her daughter told her.

The situation mirrors other tales of troops being sent on missions without proper equipment.

Aviation regiments have complained of being forced to fly dangerous missions over Iraq with outdated night-vision goggles and old missile-avoidance systems. Stories of troops' families purchasing body armor because the military didn't provide them with adequate equipment have been included in recent presidential debates.

Patricia McCook said her husband, a staff sergeant, understands well the severity of disobeying orders. But he did not feel comfortable taking his soldiers on another trip.

"He told me that three of the vehicles they were to use were deadlines ... not safe to go in a hotbed like that," Patricia McCook said.

Hill said the trucks her daughter's unit was driving could not top 40 mph.

"They knew there was a 99 percent chance they were going to get ambushed or fired at," Hill said her daughter told her. "They would have had no way to fight back."

Kathy Harris of Vicksburg is the mother of Aaron Gordon, 20, who is among those being detained. Her primary concern is that she has been told the soldiers have not been provided access to a judge advocate general.

Stevens said if the soldiers are being confined, law requires them to have a hearing before a magistrate within seven days.

Harris said conditions for the platoon have been difficult of late. Her son e-mailed her earlier this week to ask what the penalty would be if he became physical with a commanding officer, she said.

But Nadine Stratford of Rock Hill, S.C., said her godson Colin Durham, 20, has been happy with his time in Iraq. She has not heard from him since the platoon was detained.

"When I talked to him about a month ago, he was fine," Stratford said. "He said it was like being at home."

dupe,

But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung.

Dupe ... and it's in our local newspaper!

Am I missing it, or was the party affiliation of the Representative omitted in this piece?

Damn... I looked to see if someone else had posted it... You guys are fast

Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung.

Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!

Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung.

Real brave...from the comfort of your easy chair...

Platoon defies orders in Iraq (link)



<snip>

U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson said he plans to submit a congressional inquiry today on behalf of the Mississippi soldiers to launch an investigation into whether they are being treated improperly.

"I would not want any member of the military to be put in a dangerous situation ill-equipped," said Thompson, who was contacted by families. "I have had similar complaints from military families about vehicles that weren't armor-plated, or bullet-proof vests that are outdated. It concerns me because we made over $150 billion in funds available to equip our forces in Iraq.

"President Bush takes the position that the troops are well-armed, but if this situation is true, it calls into question how honest he has been with the country," Thompson said.


Congressman Bennie G. Thompson (link) Is a Democrat  and a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. Send him a letter voicing your opinion of his efforts

I guess it's more than just an extra paycheck and some college tuition after all, huh?


BTW...I thought that the only excuse the UCMJ gives for refusing to follow an order is that it is an illegal order.

I've got news for ya, if you are in the military then you volunteered to die for your country! And driving a truck load of fuel into a combat zone to resupply the brave men who are fighting these terrorists is NOT a suicide mission! What about the men who died when they didn't get any tank support because the tanks ran out of gas?

This whole thing stinks, especially the timing of it all.

Can someone direct me to the original thread?

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!

Good for fucking you.  I guess I'll have to explain again how most soldiers understand mission first, and get the fucking job done.  My platoon ran continous ops for 4 months with 6 vehicles.  Two in maintenance, four outside the wire unless one was really down.  

"Sir, 82 is deadlined."
"For what?  Does it run?"
"Sir it will be fine, I know how to keep it going."
"Ok, load her up."

So, when you are given a mission and can't do it, its your fucking falt, regardless of what excuse you have.  If their vehicles were really inop, they wouldn't have been tasked anyway, AND real soldiers still would have found a way.  

Who the fuck do you think is responsible for vehicle maintenance?  The vehicle operators.  Those bitches didn't want to go because they had no escort, and poges can't fight.

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Real brave...from the comfort of your easy chair...

Fuck you, I spent a year over there.

Quoted: OH GEEZ!  Combat is unsafe and you may not have everything you could have.  Damn, I never figured that one out when I served. Tj

Theres a big difference between "not have everything you could have" and being a non combat unit that doesnt have air support, doesnt have ground support, doesnt have reliable vehicles and going into a combat zone. Going into a combat zone against enemies that have RPGs, and driving a truck FULL OF GAS I might add.

Quoted: Quoted: OH GEEZ!  Combat is unsafe and you may not have everything you could have.  Damn, I never figured that one out when I served. Tj Theres a big difference between "not have everything you could have" and being a non combat unit that doesnt have air support, doesnt have ground support, doesnt have reliable vehicles and going into a combat zone.

Air support, ground support for a fucking convoy?  What they did have was a job.  They didn't do it.  Plus, they have rifles.  They may not know how to use them, but they have them.

Quoted: I guess it's more than just an extra paycheck and some college tuition after all, huh? BTW...I thought that the only excuse the UCMJ gives for refusing to follow an order is that it is an illegal order. I've got news for ya, if you are in the military then you volunteered to die for your country! And driving a truck load of fuel into a combat zone to resupply the brave men who are fighting these terrorists is NOT a suicide mission! What about the men who died when they didn't get any tank support because the tanks ran out of gas?

Damn skippy!  Drive on Ranger Drive on.  Whatever it takes to accomplish the mission.  Their mission was to deliver fuel.  If 'ol Bess can start and roll then it will get you point A to point B.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OH GEEZ!  Combat is unsafe and you may not have everything you could have.  Damn, I never figured that one out when I served. Tj Theres a big difference between "not have everything you could have" and being a non combat unit that doesnt have air support, doesnt have ground support, doesnt have reliable vehicles and going into a combat zone. Air support, ground support for a fucking convoy?  What they did have was a job.  They didn't do it.  Plus, they have rifles.  They may not know how to use them, but they have them.

And a non combat supply unit should be engaged in battle right along side combat units right?



You may have spent a year there, but you werent driving a fucking RPG taret like a TRUCK FULL OF FUEL!!
I dont blame them one goddamned bit for not wanting to drive a explosion on wheels through a combat zone without ANY FUCKING SUPPORT.

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!

            So, you would leave others swinging in the breeze 'cause you did not think it was 'safe' to preform your duty??? Go crawl back under Momma's dress.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!             So, you would leave others swinging in the breeze 'cause you did not think it was 'safe' to preform your duty??? Go crawl back under Momma's dress.

Fuck off you little weasel ass pussy. YOU drive a rolling explosion through a combat zone with nothing but your fuckin keys, pants and a rifle beside you if your such a Billy Badass. If the difference between going NOW and waiting 1 day for proper support is the difference between that base running out of fuel or maintaining operations, then somewhere someone has made a SERIOUS FUCKING ERROR IN SUPPLY.

Of course your keyboard commando jock ass is gonan tell me you'd tie a rope to the truck and PULL the fuckin thing there right?

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!

+1

Forgive him.  He farted and the thought got trapped in his lower bowels.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!             So, you would leave others swinging in the breeze 'cause you did not think it was 'safe' to preform your duty??? Go crawl back under Momma's dress. Fuck off you little weasel ass pussy. YOU drive a rolling explosion through a combat zone with nothing but your fuckin keys, pants and a rifle beside you if your such a Billy Badass. If the difference between going NOW and waiting 1 day for proper support is the difference between that base running out of fuel or maintaining operations, then somewhere someone has made a SERIOUS FUCKING ERROR IN SUPPLY.

Aww, you must have been there.  Poor guy, but I really feel sorry for your buddies, assuming you are military.  If not, good.

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!

And what about the troops who were waiting for those supplies?

Guess what, war is dangerous.

Sometimes you are actually asked to step out from behind cover, while under fire, to move forward, or to help your fellow soldiers.
You apparently would say no.

Hmmm.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!             So, you would leave others swinging in the breeze 'cause you did not think it was 'safe' to preform your duty??? Go crawl back under Momma's dress. Fuck off you little weasel ass pussy. YOU drive a rolling explosion through a combat zone with nothing but your fuckin keys, pants and a rifle beside you if your such a Billy Badass. If the difference between going NOW and waiting 1 day for proper support is the difference between that base running out of fuel or maintaining operations, then somewhere someone has made a SERIOUS FUCKING ERROR IN SUPPLY. Aww, you must have been there.  Poor guy, but I really feel sorry for your buddies, assuming you are military.  If not, good.

Awww Rambo, your gettin me all teary eyed over here.

Edited, eye kant spel 2dai

Quoted: Stevens said if the soldiers are being confined, law requires them to have a hearing before a magistrate within seven days.

The administration will just declare them enemy combatants and put them in a room and throw away the room.  All seriousness, need more info on situation before can say if the grunts are wussies, or the C.O. is brain-dead.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Real brave...from the comfort of your easy chair... Fuck you, I spent a year over there.

Ahh, you're making me cry, too.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Real brave...from the comfort of your easy chair... Fuck you, I spent a year over there.

Did ya notice there are 3 WOMEN in this company?  But I bet your the kind of guy who would like to see them thrown to the wolves huh...no armed escort driving a truck full of fuel...with a shoot me sign attached...

You need to report for a psych eval...your done buddy!

It is obvious that Spec(ofshit)op has not a clue.

Ohh and fuck you too...

Quoted: Ahh, you're making me cry, too.

Can we cuddle?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Real brave...from the comfort of your easy chair... Fuck you, I spent a year over there. Did ya notice there are 3 WOMEN in this company?  But I bet your the kind of guy who would like to see them thrown to the wolves huh...no armed escort driving a truck full of fuel...with a shoot me sign attached... You need to report for a psych eval...your done buddy!

What, do women need special treatment?  I guess you haven't been there, combat support units do have guns.  Plus, those soldiers have these things called rifles... and a job to do.  

Talk some sense.

Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung.

FUCK YOU!!

How about we put you in a small green '71 pinto with a big I HATE N1GGERS!! bumper sticker on the back and force you to drive through Compton at 15 MPH.
Armed with a rolled up newspaper.


Thats what they were being asked to do. That and deliver fuel that could cause breakdowns.

They disobeyed and unlawful order. They were ordered to deliver UNUSABLE fuel.

"B-b-b-but they told us they wuz gonna pay fo' too-ish-shun. They didn't say nuthin' 'bout no war..."

ETA The members of the Red Ball Express must be rolling in their graves.....

Quoted: Quoted: Stevens said if the soldiers are being confined, law requires them to have a hearing before a magistrate within seven days. The administration will just declare them enemy combatants and put them in a room and throw away the room.   All seriousness, need more info on situation before can say if the grunts are wussies, or the C.O. is brain-dead.

They're not "grunts".
If they were grunts, they would have understood.

I'm starting to feel the love in this thread.

Quoted: Ohh and fuck you too...

Yeah, ok you big sissy.  

Quoted: Quoted: Ahh, you're making me cry, too. Can we cuddle?

Only when you admit I'm right, and your wrong.  

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. They disobeyed and unlawful order. They were ordered to deliver UNUSABLE fuel.

You don't know what you're talking about.
There is nothing remotely "unlawful" about the order.
That you think so demonstrates your utter and complete ignorance.

Quoted: It is obvious that Spec(ofshit)op has not a clue.

Yep. Not a clue at all.
1) Base wasnt in critical level of fuel. They didnt NEED supplies
2) Fuel was admittedly contamintaed. What fucking good was it anyways? If one base cant use it, WHY THE FUCK CAN THE OTHER?!
3) NON COMBAT UNIT. Hello McFly. NON-combat unit. NOT FIGHTING unit.
4) NO support. No air, no ground. NOTHING.
5) A FUCKING TANKER. Shit, should we just paint the shoot me sign on it too? A TRUCK FULL OF FUEL. Think about that. A BOMB ON WHEELS
6) Vehicles in questiobale condition. NOT PROPERLY MAINTAINED

Yeah, add it up shit brains. A base doesnt need supplies, the supplies are contaminated and unusable anyways, you have no fucking support of any kind, your a non combat unit, your vehicles are in questionable running condition and they order you to drive a explosion on wheels through a combat zone.
Well fuck yea!! Sign me up for THAT job!


Real easy to play cowboy isnt it? Especially when your not the guy asked to deliver useless supplies to a base that doesnt need it with no support of any kind while driving a bomb on wheels through a combat zone.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ahh, you're making me cry, too. Can we cuddle? Only when you admit I'm right, and your wrong.

Ok, but only if I can be in back.

Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. FUCK YOU!! How about we put you in a small green '71 pinto with a big I HATE N1GGERS!! bumper sticker on the back and force you to drive through Compton at 15 MPH. Armed with a rolled up newspaper. Thats what they were being asked to do. That and deliver fuel that could cause breakdowns. They disobeyed and unlawful order. They were ordered to deliver UNUSABLE fuel.

YOU'RE AN IDIOT.  

Read my above posts on page one.  And, to use you metaphor, those guys signed up to drive through compton with your racist remark.  But they don't have newspapers, they have rifles an M249s and probably M2s and Mk19s.  The average supply convoy outgunned any infantry convoy when it came to heavy weapons.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ahh, you're making me cry, too. Can we cuddle? Only when you admit I'm right, and your wrong.

Okay your right...I'm voting for Kerry to cut military funding even more...now get your ass back over there and here's this "rolled up newspaper" and a Mohamad was gay sign...now get in the truck and drive it to mecca!

Do my bidding soldier...I'm paying my taxes!

Holy shit, we have this many pussies on this site?

If this is true, they got a lawful fucking order.  It may have been something that caused their death.
By refusing to follow it in a combat zone, they should be fucking HUNG!

END OF FUCKING STORY.

TXL

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. Cowards?? Please explain, cause from where I'M sittin I sure as fuck wouldnt have done it either!             So, you would leave others swinging in the breeze 'cause you did not think it was 'safe' to preform your duty??? Go crawl back under Momma's dress. Fuck off you little weasel ass pussy. YOU drive a rolling explosion through a combat zone with nothing but your fuckin keys, pants and a rifle beside you if your such a Billy Badass. If the difference between going NOW and waiting 1 day for proper support is the difference between that base running out of fuel or maintaining operations, then somewhere someone has made a SERIOUS FUCKING ERROR IN SUPPLY. Of course your keyboard commando jock ass is gonan tell me you'd tie a rope to the truck and PULL the fuckin thing there right?

 Sticks and stones I stand by my statment. Your reply just makes it more fitting.

Did the actives have the right equipment? Good protection? Proper support?

I'd be willing to guess that they did.

Quoted: Quoted: It is obvious that Spec(ofshit)op has not a clue. Yep. Not a clue at all. 1) Base wasnt in critical level of fuel. They didnt NEED supplies   They had these things called orders. 2) Fuel was admittedly contamintaed. What fucking good was it anyways? If one base cant use it, WHY THE FUCK CAN THE OTHER?! 3) NON COMBAT UNIT. Hello McFly. NON-combat unit. NOT FIGHTING unit.  There is no such thing as a nonCombat unit.  They are combat support.  Like I said, they are armed. 4) NO support. No air, no ground. NOTHING.  Major ops get air/ground support.  Not the hundreds of convoys that run daily. 5) A FUCKING TANKER. Shit, should we just paint the shoot me sign on it too? A TRUCK FULL OF FUEL. Think about that. A BOMB ON WHEELS  The army uses JP8 fuel, and it takes a lot to set it off.  NOT A BOMB ON WHEELS 6) Vehicles in questiobale condition. NOT PROPERLY MAINTAINED  Not maintained by operator.  And that is a poor excuse.  Those soldiers are responsible for doing their mission with the given equipment.  I am sure some motivated soldiers could get those vehicles from point A to B Yeah, add it up shit brains. A base doesnt need supplies, the supplies are contaminated and unusable anyways, you have no fucking support of any kind, your a non combat unit, your vehicles are in questionable running condition and they order you to drive a explosion on wheels through a combat zone. Well fuck yea!! Sign me up for THAT job! Dude, you don't really know what you are talking about.  Let's calm down, and take my word for it.  I see red when soldiers fail their duty.  That is what happened here. Real easy to play cowboy isnt it? Especially when your not the guy asked to deliver useless supplies to a base that doesnt need it with no support of any kind while driving a bomb on wheels through a combat zone.

Quoted: 3) NON COMBAT UNIT. Hello McFly. NON-combat unit. NOT FIGHTING unit.

Kinda like on Saving Private Ryan, the same sentiment applies here:  "Corporal, you're coming with me." "But I'm a translator.  I haven't even fired a weapon since Basic."  "But you fired one in Basic, right?" "Yes, Sir." "All right.  Come with me."

All SOLDIERS are just that:  Soldiers.  That means they fight if they have to.

Your other points are valid to varying degrees, especially about it being contaminated fuel.  But this one isn't in any way shape or form.

And except for possibly that it was contaminated fuel, nothing points to it being an unlawful order, regardless of how dumb it may have been.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dupe, But worth mentioning those cowards need to be hung. They disobeyed and unlawful order. They were ordered to deliver UNUSABLE fuel. You don't know what you're talking about. There is nothing remotely "unlawful" about the order. That you think so demonstrates your utter and complete ignorance.

No shit,

an order to do something dangerous is not unlawful
an order that could put you in danger is not unlawful
a relaly stupid order is not unlawful

Someone ABOVE these guys made a judgment and issued an order, and it is not their place to question it (or refuse it) because they find it dangerous, risky or stupid!  

If they want to make those choices, they should have gone to West Point - but until then, they can shut the fuck up and do their job, because other people rely on them doing it.