For all of you that don't know about the gun debate, read about it here Rebecca Peters VS. Wayne LaPierre .

I am currently watching the debate that I downloaded and I can't believe what I am hearing from Rebecca Peters, speaking on behalf of IANSA. The following are direct quotes from Mrs. Peters:

"There is no justification for semi-automatic weapons to be owned by the civilian population."

"I want to ban every rifle that can shoot over 100 meters..."

"Reduce the avaliability of weapons to civilians in all societies."

"We want to see much lower proliferation of guns among the civilian population but also among governments..."


I feel that this is a significant threat and an extremist view that is being fostered by mutli-billionaires and 100's of anti-gun groups around the world. Don't worry if you haven't had a chance to view the debate because it will be replayed on iDemand Pay-Per-View. However, I would advise that you hang around either Suprnova.org or here and wait to see another download for the video.

It was a very interesting and scary watch. After watching that, I'm not going to let people get away with saying LaPierre isn't sincere in trying to defend RKBA.

If you have cable, go check your PPV and see if it's there. If it is, give it a look. It's only $10. Get one less pizza. If you have satellite or a cable provider who uses a different PPV system, either download it now or wait for the DVD.

Thanks for the quotes!  I think it's important for everyone to know that the same guy behind the IANSA, George Soros, is the same guy that put up a billion dollars of his own money to help get GW out of office.  Kerry will just be his little puppet and we can kiss our rights as gun owners good-bye!

How did Wayne do?

Quoted: How did Wayne do?

By all accounts he did very well.

Quoted: How did Wayne do?

Very, very well.


I had my apprehensions about him, but he really impressed me.

If you want the video of the debate... d/l it from me with WinMx ... the file is 66.2 Mb and the name is GunDebate.mov

If you are inclined to vote, you can do it here
Password is gun2004

Rebecca Peters...needs to go scuba diving with a some bloody steaks in the Great Barrier Reef.

Quoted: If you are inclined to vote, you can do it here Password is gun2004

Thanks.  I couldn't get it at all.

She appearantly also wants Airguns banned as well.
Listenening to her drivel was scary, talk about a onetrack mind.
"ban all private ownership of guns in the world"

ETA: Wayne did very well, but I wish he'd be more aggressive in dismantling the BS stats and arguments Peters spouted.

does anyone still think this will end peacefully?

So who the hell is Rebecca Peters  ???

What upset and angered me more than her belief that gun ownership should be restricted from civilians was her belief that she thinks she can walk all over the U.S. Constitution. Regardless of her hopes in taking away our guns... the real root of the problem is her disregard for our liberty. This cannot be allowed... we cannot allow the UN or any other organization to dictate to America what our liberties may and may not be. We have our own Constitution, Bill of Rights, Legislative, and Judiciary systems to do that for ourselves... we don't need her foreign bitch ass doing it for us.

"Give me liberty or give me death!"

"From my cold, dead hands..."

Quoted: What upset and angered me more than her belief that gun ownership should be restricted from civilians was her belief that she thinks she can walk all over the U.S. Constitution. Regardless of her hopes in taking away our guns... the real root of the problem is her disregard for our liberty. This cannot be allowed... we cannot allow the UN or any other organization to dictate to America what our liberties may and may not be. We have our own Constitution, Bill of Rights, Legislative, and Judiciary systems to do that for ourselves... we don't need her foreign bitch ass doing it for us. "Give me liberty or give me death!" "From my cold, dead hands..."

yes, that bitch belives that it is high time that the US join the global community and be subject to the same standards (ones though that don't yet exist according her ) as the rest of the world.  

In other words, no private ownership of guns.  

Never mind that WLP pointed out that tyrannical regimes in the USSR, China, Cambodia, Bosnia, Germany, Rwanda, and the Sudan murdered millions upon millions of their own citizens in the last century (and, in the case of Rwanda, the killing was with machetes).  .  

Peters does not believe that individuals have any right whatsoever to defend their lives from tyranny and that those who do believe so are living in a fantasy world from watching too many cowboy movies.  

She is clearly and America hater.  She hates our culture, our "arrogance", our love of individual freedom, and most especially our gun culture.  

She and those like her are a serious threat that goes beyond the debate circuit.  

These people want us to bow to global interests and seek to inpose global socialism on every nation.  

I will fight to destroy anyone or any entity who attempts these goals in my country.  

Wayne is doing REALLY well.

Quoted: So who the hell is Rebecca Peters  ???

But it was in Sydney where Rebecca Peters rose to prominence, arriving in 1981, 'with a man she met travelling,' and apparently lived in Cairo prior to her arrival. While Peters says "she decided" to settle Down Under and become an "Australian citizen," I'm caused to remember those famous words, 'In politics nothing happens by chance. If it happens, it was meant to happen that way'. Apparently Rebecca was from a young age, bent on saving the world.

Born in 1962, Peters grew up as a teenager in Costa Rica, the second of six children in an American family. As her father worked for the American Government there, 'half jokingly,' she suggested in an interview in Australia he "probably worked for the CIA." At age 15 years while attending an "alternative school" in Costa Rica, Peters was educated by itinerant "young hippies". It was during this new-age education she became "obsessed with changing the world."

In Sydney, Peters enrolled in a university in the faculty of Engineering (possibly Macquarie), being just one of only two females in the course, but in 1983 she dropped out. For a time Rebecca took a job as a researcher and reporter with ABC Radio (known locally as the "Gay-BC"), worked with Andrew Olle, but soon found the nature of journalism, 'too disposable'.

In 1991 with a not-so-subtle agenda, Peters returned to university, enrolled as a law student gaining her law degree, at the end of which, she produced a thesis on 'tighter gun control'. This was the "centrepiece" of an enormous folio of material she collected and wrote for her campaign to remove loop-holes in existing gun laws in Australia. She promoted herself as a 'multilingual middle-class lawyer' who was fanatical about "gun control". 2


By `91 Peters was running the NCGC, rising fast to the position of "chair", almost as quickly as the death rate climbed with each incident of that new phenomenon to Australasia, the gun massacre. Undoubtedly her success in this new global calling was to the delight of her best friend the feminist activist Eva Cox and Peters' mentor Charles Watson, Professor of Public Health at Wollongong University, who admired her for her 'intellectual thoroughness.'

In a remarkably short time she quite brilliantly bull-dozed aside the entire weak, (some treacherous), and fragmented firearm owner, sporting shooters' groups, and almost surely was surprised by her success with the shooting massacres producing a 'win-win sound-bite' for the minds and meek support of the gullible Mums and Dads of Australia. Dunblane massacre occurred on 13 March `96 and Port Arthur followed 46 days later. Then all the pieces fell into place for Federal Attorney General, Daryl Williams, to implement the gun-ban laws prepared and ready in November of 1995 by Daryl Smeaton. Job done, it was off to the "Big Apple" for Peters.


But a point to remember, while Rebecca Peters was "down-under", 6 shooting massacres occurred in Australia and New Zealand resulting in 76 deaths and 53 wounded people. In "gun control" here, Peters was no doubt - numro uno. Curiously though since Peters left, the shooting massacres have ceased! None in the last six years. And private firearms still abound.

In New York, Rebecca Peters hit the pavement 'running' and is immediately associated with Desmond Riley of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence - part of the NAACP crowd involved in 'crafting a gun control strategy' for "curing gun ownership" - their words.


Shortly it was announced that Peters was awarded (if you believe their own news releases, or if logic is your guide, rewarded may be the more appropriate word), with a Senior Fellowship in March 1997 by the Soros Foundation's Open Institute funded Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Merryland. So the good citizens their should perhaps keep her Australasian achievements in mind.
In making application for her fellowship, Rebecca had to 'submit a budget' for her envisioned work - forgive me from chuckling. Can you imagine her difficult task here? Think of a big digit add lots of zeros and voila - a budget!


You may wish to drop a line to the Doctor so here is her working address: The Center on Crime, Community and Culture, 400 West 59th Street, New York, NY10019. Or perhaps you may wish to forward a congratulatory e-mail to < [email protected] >. Rebecca's doctorate included a stipend incidentally of US$32,500 p.a., plus various expenses covered in her 'budgeted' expenses, the lot bankrolled by the tax-exempt Soros Foundation.

Her citizenry disarmament program is far flung, and includes Australia, New Zealand, the sub-continent, South America, Great Britain and Europe: she's a true-blue "globalist". First on the list after jetting out of Australia though, was her close involvement in organisation of the 'Million Mom March' and in reports of this event, her trademark outlandish unsubstantiated claims regarding crimes, firearms and related deaths appeared on cue. Easily destroyed later by reputable writers, but once the lie is said, truth inevitably is the casualty. Before leaving Australia though, her name was noted alongside that of her NCGC Hobart colleague (now chair of NCGC), Roland Browne on a University Paper entitled, Australia's New Gun Control Philosophy: Public Health is Paramount. 3
But I find it remarkable, that even although in Australia she'd been granted citizenship, Peters' American roots were emphasised. Now in America, Dr Peters is always reported as being 'an Australian gun control expert' - a weird twist don't you think.


In America, the Million Mom March staged on Monday 15 May 1996, on the Mall in Washington, was in Australia lauded 'a raging success'. But even with wall-to-wall major media publicity, numbers were in fact a long way short of the hoped-for million. Hillary and Bill Clinton were of course on tap for the regulation photo-shoot, not surprising really. As it was reported that the rally was 'conceived by Donna Dees-Thomases', supposedly just a concerned 'New Jersey housewife'. However it was reported that in fact Dees-Thomases was a 'high-powered CBS publicist who at one point worked for CBS anchor Dan Rather'. Even of more interest in this same report was the claim that the lady 'is the sister-in-law of Susan Thomases', who was lawyer, political advisor and confidant of Hillary Clinton, the then First Lady. 4


For Rebecca Peters, her 1996 schedule was quite hectic. It was crunch year and on 13 March at Dunblane primary school in Scotland, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton, shot dead 16, wounded 13 and then shot himself. Fifteen of the sixteen dead, and ten of the thirteen wounded were all children. Energetically publicised by their chums in the Media, Dunblane was in the scheme of disarmament, the precursor to Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, Australia. At Port Arthur on 28 April 1996, 35 people died and 20 were wounded in the first convoluted terrorist shooting massacre in this nation. In the massacre, the murder of Nanette Mikac and her two daughters was said by the CNN's John Raedler in the EMA papers to be the classic win-win, sound bite. Raedler scurried down to Tasmania from Sydney to capture that win-win, sound bite. I'm caused then to wonder how would uncivilized people evaluate Dunblane?


However, in relation to both massacres it should be remembered it was Rebecca Peters' colleague, Roland Browne, now chair of NCGC, who predicted a shooting massacre in Tasmania in November of 1995, and quite remarkably again made a repeated prediction on the "A Current Affair" TV show, straight after Scotland's Dunblane Massacre. But then anti-gun proponents in Australia seem to have this remarkable psychic skill. For in Tasmania's capitol city Hobart after a Special Premier,s Conference in relation to Gun Control held in December of 1987, NSW's then Premier, Barry


"No-gunsworth" Unsworth stated bluntly:
 
"There will never be uniform gun laws in Australia until we see a massacre in Tasmania."
Port Arthur massacre was the catalyst for subsequent reciprocal visits across the globe by some of those closely involved with victims of both shooting murders. But with Peters in America, in the, Washington Mall, just 9 weeks after Dunblane massacre, three mothers; Kareen Turner, Alison Crozier and Karen Scott, who each lost a daughter in the Dunblane murders, featured in the Million Mom March. Now while we all probably sympathise with their personal loss of young innocent children, in Washington they marched along smiling and waving. I wonder who paid for their return flight to America and similarly other flights to Australia, and conversely the Port Arthur survivors to Dunblane? Dr Peters also flew to Dunblane in August of 1996 'to deliver messages from Port Arthur survivors' it was reported at the time.


The network of Peters' and her NGO's the global Gun Control Network, are well funded and conveniently placed, as the synonym suggest - outside of governmental restraints. I would be astonished if it was proven her Australian network had not received a generous helping of Institute hand-outs to disarm our good people in 1991- 1996. To example the extent of these amassed fortunes, one such "funder", the Joyce Foundation, was reported as granting between 1993 and 1997, some $13.2 m, for distribution among 55 'gun control' organisations. John Hopkins is bank-rolled to sustain disarmament battle by such "funders" as the California Wellness Foundation (CWF), Gerorge Soros' Open Society Institute and the Public Welfare Foundation, just three of the well-endowed tax-exempt funders supporting the global gun-grabbers. George Soros, Open Society Institute funds gun control networks on a national scale across America, but indeed globally, in 33 countries. One should be surprised if Australia didn't figure high on this list. Open Society also gave the Violence Policy Center $1.2 million in 1997 to expand its anti-gun efforts. 5


Like Joyce, CWF treats gun violence as a public health problem that requires government regulation just as Peters did in Australia. Sadly every good citizen Peters disarms effectively produces one more potential victim of criminal misdeeds, a point obviously not overlooked by her. As it was observed by the then leader of the Australian Democrats, Cheryl Kernot, that Peters always went out of her way to keep a discreet distance from victims of gun crime, as she was 'sensitive to the emotional implication.' 6 I wonder if disarmed potential victims ever crossed her mind while accepting her Human Rights award from Dame Roma Mitchell? As I mentioned Peters went to John Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, and first to their Violence Policy Center. Interestingly, my investigations show Rebecca's doctorate is somewhat tainted, as if such principals would matter to Dr Rebecca.


Back in August of 1987, John Hopkins University was heavily involved in promoting food irradiation, even although the process was banned by the West German Government in 1958, and the American FDA in 1968. But not to be deterred John Hopkins organised a forum to promote publicly a 'balanced view' with 20 guest speakers. However the seminar had to abandoned, when speaker number 20 exposed the other 19 speakers not only heavily biased to promote this disposal system for nuclear waste as "safe" with all of them involved heavily in the nuclear industry.


It should come as no surprise to learn that John Hopkins in 1986, received funding of a reported $317m American "defence dollars"! What level of "Arms and Military" funding does John Hopkins receive today that in any way assists the works of Dr Peters and her 'arms-grabbing' cadre? 7


Now returning to the scene in New South Wales for a moment. Before Rebecca Peters flew out to her allotted 'battle ground' in America, she had one important task to complete here. The Parliaments of Australia are legislatures with limited powers. They are not supreme. The right to keep and bear arms and use them is a right beyond the powers of Parliament. Six hundred years ago people didn't trust government, and it would appear nothing has changed. So armed Government willing to use force - legitimised by Doctor Peters and her network - are in truth, hell-bent on closing that "loop-hole" in gun laws which are basic individual freedoms that with "clubs" they are intent on closing! This single fact assured that there would inevitably be a legal challenge mounted by some section of our citizenry that would surely win in the courts.


So in New South Wales, as the Government proclaimed "gun buy-back," began to effect the citizens a previously formed Concerned Citizens Association in the Hunter Valley, sought legal opinion as to how best to mount a case against government to have this iniquitous "law" quashed.


The global "gun control" network had no intention of suffering such a set back. Its network tentacles obviously penetrated the very fabric of society at many different levels. Peters and company certainly had a very effective "grape vine" network.


The legal advice was no sooner prepared and delivered to the client Association, than word was received by the Association's executive that Peters - remember in her own estimation a "middle class" lawyer, a very junior solicitor - had already been given an audience before the autocratic NSW Bar Association, a quite extraordinary accomplishment in itself.


I have learned that it was directly as a result of Rebecca Peters addressing that eminent group of staid gentlemen which caused them to immediately pass a motion which effectively bound them, that should a legal challenge be launched against the 1996 gun law changes in Australia, the Bar Association would mount a strong campaign to defeat such a legal challenge and apparently "free legal services" were promised to aid in defeating any such challenge, which is perhaps why in the courts of Australia, survivors of the Port Arthur massacre seeking redress have a devil's own job in getting their case to Court.


When Port Arthur and its "fruit" are considered alongside what has occurred especially in Canada what is building - fast - just south of the border should cause all Americans a deal of concern. In Canada a not-so-discreet Canadian Liberal Party Senator, Sharon Carstairs let the cat out of the bag some time back with her witnessed as pointing out before the Community Legal Education Association, that the new gun law is the lynchpin in her party's plan to "socially re-engineer Canada". 8


Her revelation prompted journalist Lorne Gunter of the Edmonton Journal, to write, "The Liberals believe [the draconian gun law] would re-engineer Canada, and especially male gun owners, making its citizens more docile." Continuing he wrote, "When lawmakers trample centuries-old liberties without an overwhelming social good, in return then respect for the law dies and the rule of law along with it." 9


Summary:


As I edited this article, news came to hand that a tenth victim had been shot and killed in Washington. On the same television news I saw were 10 people were killed and 34 injured in a 24-plus vehicle pile-up on Interstate 13, near Milwaukee: they died a grizzly, fiery death - but to a wider public such incidents are fill-in news items. They cause no widespread trauma, certainly nothing equivalent in any way to a win-win sound bite such as results from the gross uncertainty of the Washington sniper. Just the same as the Port Arthur massacre. Those who employ Hegelian dialectics against their fellow man for political gain play trauma as a finely tuned tool, to control a nation, just as 9/11 did to many nations. Trauma is an extraordinarily efficient agent, deployed to deliver control to the State through voluntary surrender by the people of their inalienable rights and freedoms.


Is it too hard to look at history? Not so long ago the Tavistock guru's Aldous Huxley and Timothy Leary under the wing of Capitol International Airways (CIA), created the first "somatotomic serial killer" Charles Manson. Hence the spate of earlier school yard shootings in America, and this latest sniper program prompts me to quote the following for your consideration:
 
"In a quite almost invisible way, OSS-CIA assessment methods transformed our basic notions about human nature. Thirteen million youths were screened, selected, trained in complex skills, behaviour-modified by means of psychological techniques. In the future, both war and peace were to be based on our knowledge of the brain. Intelligence became the key to survival in the future. Psychology became the new science of human engineering." end quote. 10
 
This morning's latest "breaking news" of the huge bomb detonated in the Bali township of Kuta resulting in upwards of 184 killed and 'hundreds' more wounded reminds me of the above article. Official reports here are suspect to say the least. After the Port Arthur Massacre, how can any Australian trust our present crop of politicians. For in the scheme of gun control delivered by politicians, I must remind you: there is no trigger guard or safety-catch on politicians.

But of one point I can be certain; Dr Peters has not deserted her latest field of operations, Baltimore and the District of Columbia, and the gun control network is not going away either. So, in these uncertain times it is Okay to be unarmed, but if you love freedom with a passion - should you be so reckless as to allow yourself to be disarmed?

I watched it last night after obtaining it online.  I think LaPierre did a great job.  

Ms. Peters is an asshat.  

Mr. LaPierre pointed out many good things.  That our Constitution is the law of our land.  That our government CANNOT recognize any authority above or greater or contradictory to our Constitution.  He put the case for self defense out there.  I think he should have pointed out and driven home the fact that there is a great difference between law abiding citizens and criminals.  He should have pointed out that, though the US has many more homicides committed with guns, that they mostly occur in densely populated urban areas, and outside of those areas, the US is exceedingly safe.    All in all, he still did a great job.    

Ms. Peters thinks that no one should have guns.  That you're not 'civilized' if you have guns.  She did not offer any anecdote or ideas for reducing the number of criminals, and thus reducing the risk to law abiding citizens, other than saying basically in 'civlization', citizens don't need to protect themselves.   It seems like she seems to refuse to believe that anyone is a 'victim' of anything unless they are shot with a gun.  

Short version:

Rebecca Peters: Chief Executive of IANSA (the International Action Network of Small Arms), In 1996 Rebecca was awarded the Australian Human Rights Medal for her work in promoting gun control in Australia... IANSA is the global network of civil society organizations working to stop proliferation and misuse of small arms and light weapons. IANSA brings world attention on the humantarian impact of these weapons and brings the voices and activities of non-government organizations and concerned individuals across the world. Founded in 1998 it now has more than 500 participant groups in nearly one hundred countries.

Quoted:  Bottom line, they envision a world government with them at the helm.  They will not be satisfied until every border is abolished and every man, woman and child cowers in fear of them.  Never, not in a land born from the blood of patriots who escaped the selfish and oppressive rule of European despots. Damn, you guys might turn me into right-winger yet!

WOOHOO! One order of tinfoil, shiny side out!

Fuck Rebecca Peters and the UN horse she rode in on.

Mat_q: The bit you're missing here is that the law-abiding can instantly become criminal w/ the passing of law. We've seen that here. It has nothing to do w/ acting like a responsible adult.

I'm watching it right now. Lapierre is speaking beautifully. A big fuck you to the UN.

I wish someone would run her ass over with a bulldozer (or Teddy Kennedy's car ) and get that shit out of my face.  

That, or just bring it tomorrow.  I'm sick and tired of waiting, might as well get the revolution started...

You missed the best quote of the enitre debate!

Rebecca Peters: People need Democracy to protect them, not guns!

wow wayne is absolutely destroying her.

Quoted: You missed the best quote of the enitre debate! Rebecca Peters: People need Democracy to protect them, not guns!

that is really disturbing. these people are so out of touch with reality its disgusting.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner,

Liberty is two wolves and a lamb with a belt-fed machinegun having the same discussion.


Blah blah blah. Fucking neosocialofascistcommunofucksticks.

Quoted: Fuck Rebecca Peters and the UN horse she rode in on.

Pooper . . . post pics.

Rebecca Peters is the "poster child" for John Kerry's "Global Test".

Fortuneately for us.....Wayne kicked her ass!!!

Quoted: Rebecca Peters is the "poster child" for John Kerry's "Global Test". Fortuneately for us.....Wayne kicked her ass!!!

thats what bothers me the most about kerry. his association with George Soros

No, I did not watch the debate, nor do I watch television but, that really matters not.

Ladies and gentlemen, let us not lose track of what is occurring, beyond this 'show of a debate'.  The antis of the world, which have much in the way of financial backing (monies shall always push and or buy the correct buttons), it matters not what and or how much ground they encroach this year or next, but within the five to ten or even the next fifty years.
Yes, indeed, one could make the claim, well, I shall not live another fifty years so, what am I to care, I could give a rats ass? Well, believe as you will, these parasite(s) that are most determined to undermine our 'rights and freedoms' shall be (and are) in it, for the long haul.
Those of you will children, please 'splain' why you have not tendered your dues to a reputable oganisation(s) to fight for your (and your childrens) firearms right? But, I digress...

'The Rebecca Peters' of this world, they really matter to me not, what does it really matter to lose a semi-auto firearm?  Well, what VERY much troubles me is what is in store after they have accomplished their goal. For these types are undaunting, their desire to / for control is unrelenting, what is next????? You may best be assured, something 'IS' next in line for these parasites.
In my opinion, trust them not, for they shall deceive but, again, I digress.

Do remember, time is upon their side, for it is social engineering at its best. 'They own the UN, the media, the teaching profession and in my opinion, most of the governments of the world.

In short form, we are near to the closing end of a breed that 'once' was,  near to extinction if you will, well, perhaps.....

A few shall awaken some, those shall awaken many, is there time?
Who the fukk am I to type such....

I am watching it now, Wayne is doing a good job so far....this biatch, though, she's got some real problems upstairs in the head.

Thanks for all that info.  JimBeam!

I just finished watching...

Wow that was creepy.  The chilling part is that this lady has done this before.  She's been successful in two countries already.

She denies, flatly, that "guns have been banned".  She says, "There have been gun reform laws, not confiscations."  Am I the only one that saw the footage of people lined up, guns being thrown into piles for destruction?

And why can't she stand still?  What's with the bobble-head motion thing?

Yea, but that's Britain and Australia... America is a different kind of bird... hopefully

Quoted:  What's with the bobble-head motion thing?

its instinctual. Deep down, She realizes that is the only thing she is good for. but since she has dedicated herself to the box, it caused her to become an evil freedom hating cunt

Quoted: Yea, but that's Britain and Australia... America is a different kind of bird... hopefully

it is.

she even said that before and after the bans nothing really changed.  self defense was never a "legitimate" reason to own a gun. if you own a gun for self defense, you are a criminal in those countries.



I really enjoyed Wayne's final speech. trashed her whole view on teh world, and her master george soros.

Good god, watching Rebecca almost makes you wish she would get gang-raped.  Then again, that still might not even snap her back into reality.

Don't forget to vote

www.thegundebate.com/vote.html

Password is "gun2004" without quotes.  This was given at the end of the film.

I'll turn on my bittorrent right now if anyone hasn't gotten it yet.

Quoted: I wish someone would run her ass over with a bulldozer (or Teddy Kennedy's car ) and get that shit out of my face.

lmao

Quoted: And why can't she stand still?  What's with the bobble-head motion thing?

Survival instinct?  You know, a moving target is harder to hit.