A few weekends ago, “Austrian” and I spent 4 days in the Nevada desert.  Him brushing up on his training and myself UN-learning all my bad shooting habits and learning the correct techniques.

The 4-day rifle course is a mixture of a few hours per day of lecture and about 8 hours of shooting.  In this course, you'll be taught to quickly and effectively place yourself into multiple shooting positions, to be able to place accurate fire into the thoracic cavity from as far as 200yds, into the ocular cavity from 25yds, and to identify and quickly deal with just about any malfunctions your rifle may have.

Sometime during the course, we were given a chance to do a few tactical simulators.  The first consists of steel targets laid out in an arroyo.  As you walk through, you engage the targets as quickly and accurately as possible.  Some go out beyond 100yds.

The second simulator is much the same, except you must identify “good” and “bad” targets and deal with a few “hostage” targets.  Some threats go out to about 200yds.

On the 3rd morning, all the students from all the courses (rifle, pistol, subgun, etc) got together to learn room clearing techniques and how to deal with T intersections.  Without getting too technical, we were essentially taught “slicing the pie.”

On the last day of the course, students are given a skills test.  This test is comprised of every drill that was taught.  You'll have X seconds to clear a type 1 malfunction, for example, or X seconds to engage a 200yd target from your choice of positions.  How you do on this test is determined by how well you follow the correct procedures and your ability to place accurate fire on the target.  It's not an easy test with the time pressure that is given.

After the course, it’s time for a bit of fun.  Man on Man competition.  12 steel falling plates are arranged from 15 to 50yds.  Each man is given 3 to knock down, the 3rd being at an angle next to your competitor’s.  They do this so when they fall, they overlap.  Therefore, there’s no argument about which fell first.  Austrian and myself both did well on this course, but we both dropped out from the same plate that was leaning too far forward.  Only the M1A’s were able to knock it over in one hit.

There are 3 possible certificates you can earn:  The basic cert, the graduate cert and the distinguished graduate cert (you must earn this before you can take the advanced course).  These are based upon your grade.  The cutoff for each was a surprise to us, so I’ll let you guys find it out when you take the course.

The rifles we brought:  (Mine) Bushmaster lower, M93a stock, Accuracy Speaks trigger, Bushmaster upper, Colt 16" M4 1/7 barrel, phantom FH, 3x24 compact ACOG (red crosshair).  Only malfunctions came from a single 20rd mag that has since been marked as a range mag.  Austrian brought a bone-stock Bushmaster A3 HBAR 1/9 with a 3x24 compact ACOG (Amber crosshair).  Function of his rifle was flawless, as far as I know.  We only used 20 round mags.

Ammo:  We went through ~1600 rounds of XM193 Lot 52.  No problems were encountered.  At 200yds, our shots could be covered by an open hand.

Gear:  Eye protection is almost mandatory, even when you’re not shooting due to the consistent high winds and blowing sand.  Elbow pads and knee pads aren’t necessary, but HIGHLY recommended.  A boonie hat is also highly recommended to keep your face and neck from being burned and to keep brass from falling between your face and your glasses.

The course instructors were:  Hanson, Gibson, Urdaneta and Hoerner.  I’m looking to see if I can get a bio on these gentlemen.

People are always commenting on the possible Scientology ties that Front Sight may or may not have.  There was not a single hint of scientology crap.  Not one.  It was all no-nonsense training and related lecture.  They don't try to push you into a membership unless you ask them to.  I asked for some further info, and in 2 weeks I've been called once.  So don't let this hearsay and absurd rumor turn you off to possibly the best training money can buy.

Please note that I have NOT purchased a membership.



An example of necessary gear

Forest - Post away.

AR15fan - The C. ACOG was PERFECT.  There were a few fullsize ACOGs (mostly TA31) and an EOTech.  Austrian and I had little trouble rapidly acquiring our targets at all ranges with the 3x24 compacts.  One guy had a problem with his rifle.  He was getting light primer strikes.  He was in another relay, so I didn't get much time to talk to him about it.  Normal diagnoses failed to cure the problem.  I dunno how he fixed it.

O_P - Unfortunately, I have not.  Several other students there had and they keep coming back to FS.  I think I'm gonna try some of the other schools when time permits.

JHP - Yes.  Tropentarn.  It works VERY well out in NV.

Quoted: How physically demanding would you say this course is? Not very, but if you have bad knees or back, it could be a problem.  There were 2 older men there that could not get in any position other than offhand without a lot of effort. Also, IIRC, that course is pretty expensive.  Is it safe to assume that you consider it worth the price? MORE than worth it.  I learned quite a bit and really improved my shooting skills.

Quoted: How did the Eotech hold up? I find mine eats batteries really fast.

It seemed to hold up great.

Quoted: where do you get it? how durable/rugged is the material? How much?

There's a Brit website, flecktarn.uk or something like that.  I had no issues with fabric wear.  Cost was, let's say "not cheap."  I've wanted some for a while, so I bit the bullet and ordered.  Austrian also had some from his military service.

Quoted: I want to do one these bad. Did you have a camelbak or hydration system on?

No need.  There's water breaks quite often.  I recommend gatorade.  I went through 2 bottles or so a day.

Quoted: What were the primary rifles most people bought with them?  Mostly AR's, or other things?

Mostly ARs (some were dissipator rentals), 4 M1A's, a Steyr Scout in .223 and the new Bushy BAR10 (that gun ran flawlessly).

Quoted: Do you have any recommendations regarding accommodations?

I do NOT recommend staying in Vegas.  You must be at class at 8AM every morning and it's almost an hour drive from Vegas, not including traffic and the heavy radar enforcement on the road.

We stayed at the Best Western in Pahrump.  We also hung out with some guys at their motel room at the Saddle West casino.  It was fairly nice (no Wyndham nice, but more like a Best Western), and I believe there's a Front Sight discount.

Quoted: After purchasing a few different ARs in the past couple of years, I have come to the conclusion that I hate the A2 grip. It is to rough on my hand and doesn't feel right. After hauling your rifle around for four days, did the A2 begin to feel rough?

Nope.  Not in the least.

I do recommend putting some of the fabric medical tape on your fingers that use the charging handle.  It'll keep them from becoming rather sore.

Brou, Id really like to hear your impressions of the 3x Compact ACOG in comparision to an Aimpoint.

Quoted: Brou, Id really like to hear your impressions of the 3x Compact ACOG in comparision to an Aimpoint.

For the shots within 100yds, the Aimpoint would have been just fine.  Probably even better than the ACOG for the 15 and 25yd ocular shots.

But at the 200yd range, the dot on the aimpoint would have obscured the thoracic cavity, making it really difficult to get good hits.

I almost brought mine along to play with, but I was limited on space and luggage weight (I had already left quite a bit behind).

Quoted: Brou, Was there any night work? Particularly regarding the use of lights? I found a washout problem with my TA50-2 under specific conditions at night with a light.  If the light was 'just right' and the target reflective enough - in the right color range - the reticule would 'washout'.  Just enough reflextive illumination to illuminate the reticule to 'gray' - all other times I had a nice amber reticule (no light) or a black reticule (lots of reflective light).

Yes.  There was a night shoot for a few hours.  They showed us use of flashlights techniques.  All shots at night were on steel, which looks really cool.  Especially when 20 people all light up a single target all at once.

So, at night, you';; have targets front illuminated by flashlights, quick illumination with car headlights, and some back illumination from red road flares.

I doubt you'll get a reflective target to test your problem, however.

BTW, I HIGHLY recommend a long sleeve shirt for the night shoot.  It gets pretty cool.

Quoted: Brouhaha, thanks for the fine thread! A couple of questions about your compact ACOG set up... did you have any issues with eye relief? In other words, did your ARMS# 40 prevent you from mounting the ACOG far enough back to be readily useable? Also, I see you have it mounted in an ARMS # 19S... did you have any problems with the front sight intruding into your sight picture? Thanks.

No problems with either.  Eye relief is perfect for me.  And ditto on what Austrian  says about the front sight post.

Quoted: FWIW, I never had a problem shooting at 200 meters with my Comp ML2. First round hits aren't an issue if you do your part. I have the 4 MOA dot version. Our shoot-off at 223 was 1 hit to a 100 meter plate standing, one hit to a 200 meter plate standing to whatever you wanted (prone, usually). 2 round drills were common with aimpoint. I did it a few times myself.

I'm not talking about just HITTING the target.  I'm talking about hitting a smaller section of the abdomen of the target.  I'll try to post a pic of the target tonight.

Quoted: Is it a problem to shoot 55 grain rounds out of a 1/7 barrel?  Does it hurt accuracy much, or do damage to the barrel rifling????

No problems whatsoever.