Swung by my inlaws today to have lunch and chat with my Father in law.  He wasn't there yet, and my Mother In Law starts talking about this Pakistani man that was traveling with her son when he visited recently.  She comments on how Cameron (the Pakistani) insists that Islam is peace and the terrorists just don't understand that yet.

Well, I immediately called B.S.  I met Cameron, and he's a very nice man.  However, he has absolutely no authority to declare what Islam is.  I insisted that Islam is whatever the individual Muslim wants it to be, and no Muslim has the ability to define it for other Muslims.  I also said that I hold the Islamic world partially responsible for the terrorism, because they aren't doing their part to stamp it out.

Well, she got defensive of Islam, and how I shouldn't make such a general judgement like that.  She insisted that not all terrorists are Muslim.  That just set me off some more.  I recognized that not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

Then she asked me if I would be suspicious of a Muslim if one moved next door to me.  I said, "yes, absolutely.  I'd keep both eyes wide open watching that neighbor carefully, and rightfully so."  

She seemed suprised.  She kept insisting that Cameron said, "Islam is peace."

I replied by pointing out how parts of the Koran justify killing the infidel and making the infidel women lament (I'm sure someone here can quote the reference for me), and it is entirely up to the Muslim individual to decide which interpretation to accept.  I pointed out that thousands of Muslims from all over the world, including the USA, were flocking together to fight against America's troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.  I also pointed out that there aren't any Muslims banding together from all over the world to fight against the terrorists.

I think I came off as a mean, judgemental person.  She just doesn't get it.  Every time she started to grasp what I was telling her, she'd backtrack to what she'd heard from Cameron.  I just don't think I can do anymore for her right now.  She's pretty naive.  It took the combined efforts of me, my wife, and my Father in law to convince her that colloidal silver isn't an antibiotic/anti-radiation medicine/water purifier/cancer cure/etc..

Quoted: IBTL!

Why?  All I've indicated is that there is no central authority in Islam, and interpretation of Islam (and the Koran) is completely individual.  Therefore, Islam is terrorism and murder for those who want it to be, and it is peaceful for those that want peace.  No Muslim, however, has the authority to declare an absolute interpretation of Islam.

DoubleFeed,
I'm curious.  If a Muslim family moved next door to you, wouldn't you observe them closely?

Quoted: Quoted: IBTL! Why?  All I've indicated is that there is no central authority in Islam, and interpretation of Islam (and the Koran) is completely individual.  Therefore, Islam is terrorism and murder for those who want it to be, and it is peaceful for those that want peace.  No Muslim, however, has the authority to declare an absolute interpretation of Islam. DoubleFeed, I'm curious.  If a Muslim family moved next door to you, wouldn't you observe them closely?

IBTL?? What the hell is there to lock? Shane has said absolutely nothing that isn't the truth. It's not opinion, its fact. ARFCOM gonna start locking facts? And your damn right I'd keep an eye on them. I'm a BIG believer in profiling when it comes to religious fanatics.

When it comes to the wife, MIL, or even mom, sometimes it's better to just smile and say "okay." Nothing good can come of getting into it with mom or the MIL.

My mother-in-law is  kinda weird too, I feel you pain.

Quoted: My mother-in-law is  kinda weird too, I feel you pain.

She's not so weird as just naive to a fault.  Very, very naive.

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

my motherinlaw is a total BITCH.........She is one FUCKED up Lady.....I just try to avoid contact with the inlaws as much as I can and use whatever excuse possible

Quoted: my motherinlaw is a total BITCH.........She is one FUCKED up Lady.....I just try to avoid contact with the inlaws as much as I can and use whatever excuse possible

+1

My Outlaws are both liberals.  There's no talking to either one of them.  I've learned to just save my breath.

So instead of talking, I went to thier yard and planted thier Kerry sign upside down the other night, and slapped a GW sticker on it.  Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

Quoted: IBTL for this part: I replied by pointing out how parts of the Koran justify killing the infidel and making the infidel women lament (I'm sure someone here can quote the reference for me), and it is entirely up to the Muslim individual to decide which interpretation to accept.

Is it not true?  I'm perfectly willing to stand corrected it I'm wrong on this.  Can anyone confirm or deny?

Quoted: Quoted: IBTL for this part: I replied by pointing out how parts of the Koran justify killing the infidel and making the infidel women lament (I'm sure someone here can quote the reference for me), and it is entirely up to the Muslim individual to decide which interpretation to accept. Is it not true?  I'm perfectly willing to stand corrected it I'm wrong on this.  Can anyone confirm or deny?

According to the ROP'ers, it says nothing about killing infidels.   Yet is DOES state CONQUERING infidels.  By whatever means necissary..........so I guess it's how you interpret conquered.

Semantics my friend.

Here are a few quotes.  I'll find some more to back up what I said.


Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. (Surat At-Taubah 9:29)

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued.
Surat At-Taubah 9:29

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Sura 47.4)

Quoted: Here are a few quotes.  I'll find some more to back up what I said. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. (Surat At-Taubah 9:29) O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11] Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. Surat At-Taubah 9:29

AGNTSA    - the same quotes again  


I'm out.  

Quoted: Quoted: Here are a few quotes.  I'll find some more to back up what I said. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. (Surat At-Taubah 9:29) O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11] Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. Surat At-Taubah 9:29 AGNTSA    - the same quotes again   I'm out.

And your point is?  I looked these up from English translations of the Koran.  Do they or do they not exist?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here are a few quotes.  I'll find some more to back up what I said. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. (Surat At-Taubah 9:29) O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11] Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. Surat At-Taubah 9:29 AGNTSA    - the same quotes again   I'm out.   And your point is?  I looked these up from English translations of the Koran.  Do they or do they not exist?

Shane,

You are preaching to the choir here. The IBTL's are before the Nazierators get to the thread as you have opposed the religon of peace and love by stating your facts.

Quoted: Shane, You are preaching to the choir here. The IBTL's are before the Nazierators get to the thread as you have opposed the religon of peace and love by stating your facts.

Oh...you're right.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

If it's the religion of peace why is 90% of all recognized terrorist groups islamist jihad terrorists groups? ask him that.

Most current jihadists were trained by Pakistan in Pk and Afghanistan.

Quran, book of Surah, chapter 9 verse 29, "Jihad is Allah's Command."

Al Takkeyah, the principal of encouraging muslims to lie about islam to protect the image of islam.

Ask him about the principle of  Naskh (abrogation). It means that the last commands of muhammad over rule his ealier verses. These earlier verses are the ones about love and peace. his later ones are about hate, murder, rape and the such. This is because the quran is full of holes. It contradicts itself repeatedly.

Ask him what the only guaranteed way to get into "Paradise" is. It's to die in jihad. Then when you get to paradise you get the 72 houris (beautiful virgins) everybody knows about that part, but how about the 28 pre-pubescent boys. This isn't in the quran it's in the Hadiths, sayings and life events of muhammad.

Hammer him with these. See what he says after that. If anyone wants more true info about islam let me know.

IBTL

Quoted: IBTL

+1

I recognized that not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

Actually...according to an Air War College study, the most terrorist attacks have been perpetrated by Hindus. Ever hear of the Tamil Tigers? The problem with our assessment of terror, is that we have this profile that just doesnt fit. "It aint what we dont know thats the problem, its what we know that aint so"

If you think you are safe in interpretation, then you have only to fear THEIR interpretation since they feel they are living within the holy boundaries of the Koran.  I feel you can close your eyes, open the Koran, point and find a reason to kill the "nonbelievers, wrong doers, etc". The fact that THEY interrupt it hostile should be enough for anyone who has two brain cells to rub together.

I've got crazy family too! There was an E-mail a few days ago floating around here about a young boy asking his father why we are at war. Well I sent that out to all my family and my crazy grandfather sent me back an E-mail telling me he pretty much disowns me because he knows I'm voting for Bush. He told me I wasn't competent to make a decision on who to vote for, because if I was I would be voting for Kerry and not bush.

I think he has finally fallen off the deep end.

Jerad