STUDENT SUSPENDED FOR HAVING CIVIL WAR WEAPON

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - STUDENT SUSPENDED FOR HAVING CIVIL WAR WEAPON

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:06:03 AM EDT

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Musket in car lands high school student in hot water
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PINE BUSH, N.Y. A student at an upstate New York high school faces charges after the musket he uses as a Civil War re-enactor was found in his car on school grounds.

The arrest of 17-year-old Joshua Phelps has incensed his mother. She says officials at Pine Bush High School over-reacted.

The senior had used the musket during a re-enactment last weekend. Afterward, he put the gun, a bayonet and his Union soldier uniform in his car and left them there. Yesterday, a security guard spotted the gun in the parked car.

Police were called and Phelps was arrested and charged with criminal possession. He's suspended from school for five days and could be expelled.

The teen's mother says school officials should have given him a break after they realized the musket was a replica used for re-enactments.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:12:52 AM EDT

[#1]

first think he needs to learn is you can't leave that shit in your CAR!

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:13:45 AM EDT

[#2]

Uhhh, does the ATF consider old muzzle loading ball & powder muskets "firearms?" If not, what rule has he broken?

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:14:38 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
first think he needs to learn is you can't leave that shit in your CAR!

+1...when I was in school you could have your hunting gear in your car for after school hunts...no one cared...hell half of my teachers hunted...

Not today....gotta be careful.....

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:15:52 AM EDT

[#4]

I just can't say enough. Another example of social indoctrination.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:16:35 AM EDT

[#5]

I don't get it - he was on the right side.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:18:44 AM EDT

[#6]

We need to protect our kids from those drive by "REPLICA" non-firing musket shootings.

Tj

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:18:49 AM EDT

[#7]

Another example of a fine "zero tolerance" policy at work.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:19:27 AM EDT

[#8]

I was always lead to believe that civil war era firearms were considered non-firearms

also since it was a replica, non firing.........wow this is really messed up

Damn sheepel

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:21:17 AM EDT

[#9]

It's my understanding the muzzleloaders aren't considered firearms. You can buy them with from mail order catalogs without background check or restricted shipping.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:26:05 AM EDT

[#10]

Even if they rule the gun as "OK", I'm sure they'll try to screw him because of the bayonet. Gotta make sure we arrest the kid who gives a shit about history and spends his time and money on a great hobby. Unreal.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:26:30 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I don't get it - he was on the right side.

I'm a reenactor, but I don't think reenactors should get a free pass. Would we all be jumping to defend- or criticize- if he had an AK or AR in his car?

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:27:26 AM EDT

[#12]

Yes.....but it is an "Assault Musket".......with a bayonet lug.A real military firearm.I am pissing my drawers in fear at what "Might have happened"....it's for the children,after all.Right?

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:30:29 AM EDT

[#13]

Days gone when shooting teams were on campus.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:31:08 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Yes.....but it is an "Assault Musket".......with a bayonet lug.A real military firearm.I am pissing my drawers in fear at what "Might have happened"....it's for the children,after all.Right?

Yeah that's pretty scary, he could have shot maybe two people before the ENTIRE school evacuated.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:33:51 AM EDT

[#15]

Similar incident when I taught High School. A top ten student, no discipline infractions, as polite as the Pope kind of kid was caught with a 'sword' in his car.

Sword had been used as a prop in an after school play(?) and he forgot it was in his truck.

Drug dog alerted on his truck because of gunpowder smells from the shotshells in the pickup bed.

It was about a week before graduation and the principal and superintendeant tried like hell to NOT LET HIM WALK THE STAGE for graduation.

After 12 years of dedication to being a model student, they wanted to treat him like a criminal over a sword, behind the seat of his truck, in the parking lot. A sword that had been there for months...

It took a petition and letters to the school board to allow him to walk the graduation stage.

He was completely humiliated by it all.

TRG

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:37:54 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I don't get it - he was on the right side.

Maybe it wasn't for the musket...perhapse he was "re-enacting" Shermans march through Georgia...you know breaking/burnuing anything and everything he felt like, then looting all the stores he came across...

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:39:38 AM EDT

[#17]

Muzzle stufferen't arnen't considered "firearms" by the BATFE

It IS a weapon though

A bayonette = knife = weapon

He's screwed

I think we here at arfcom would give him a free pass for being a history buff and for having it in his car in the parking lot instead of in his backpack/locker/coat like some of the other students. Hopefully he'll end up with a few days suspension and a good lesson learned.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:40:43 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't get it - he was on the right side.

I'm a reenactor, but I don't think reenactors should get a free pass. Would we all be jumping to defend- or criticize- if he had an AK or AR in his car?

He means the "Union Side".

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:43:40 AM EDT

[#19]

God, please have mercy on the USA.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:46:37 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

The teen's mother says school officials should have given him a break after they realized the musket was a replica used for re-enactments.

Sweet Mary Mother Of..... It's a replica!!!!!!!

Thus not a firearm. Even though Muskets/muzzleloaders are not considered firearms due to the fact I can mail order it without a 4473.

Dear gawd will these people ever get a clue.

Posted: 10/13/2004 6:46:40 AM EDT

[#21]

Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.
Home school.

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:08:05 AM EDT

[#22]

This country is going nuts. It will only get worse if Lurch gets elected. I went to High School
in southern California in the 1970's. Biggest concern in the world was wondering if the Soviets
would launch a nuclear strike against us. Back then, gun laws in California were reasonable.
Noone thought of bringing a gun of any kind to school. Shooting was an after school or weekend
event, in between surfing and movies with the babes. If Julio or some other worthless dirtbag
messed with you, you stabbed him with a ballpoint pen or took off your belt and hit him in the
face with the belt buckle. Ah, the good ol' days!

Watch these liberals. They are intent on neutering every gun owner, gun sympatheizer. sportsman, collector, historic re-enactor or kid with a plastic cap gun. If you think it's bad now, wait until you see
what a John F. Lurch administration would bring. You may see the start of some forms of civil disobediance on the part of gun owning conservatives.

Regards,
OH58D

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:10:15 AM EDT

[#23]

I'm still unsure how this works...

How did they get into the car?

4th Amendment, anyone? Unreasonable search and seizure???

I fear for the future of my country.

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:11:07 AM EDT

[#24]

Wait!

It was a Union uniform?

Nevermind.

Eric The(LetHimHaveIt!)Hun

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:14:03 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
This country is going nuts. It will only get worse if Lurch gets elected. I went to High School
in southern California in the 1970's. Biggest concern in the world was wondering if the Soviets
would launch a nuclear strike against us. Back then, gun laws in California were reasonable.
Noone thought of bringing a gun of any kind to school. Shooting was an after school or weekend
event, in between surfing and movies with the babes. If Julio or some other worthless dirtbag
messed with you, you stabbed him with a ballpoint pen or took off your belt and hit him in the
face with the belt buckle. Ah, the good ol' days!

Watch these liberals. They are intent on neutering every gun owner, gun sympatheizer. sportsman, collector, historic re-enactor or kid with a plastic cap gun. If you think it's bad now, wait until you see
what a John F. Lurch administration would bring. You may see the start of some forms of civil disobediance on the part of gun owning conservatives.

Regards,
OH58D

I went to school in SoKal, too. We used to make KNIVES and gun replicas in a metal shop class. This was in West Los Angeles!!! We used to mess around with welders, grinders, torches and all that sort of stuff. They had different molds in letal shop of guns where you poured molten pot metal into it and you finished and smoothed it out after it cooled. We were graded on the finished product, too.

I still have a 1911 and a dagger I did somewhere in the garage.

Zero-tolerence is STOOPID!

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:18:19 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Would we all be jumping to defend- or criticize- if he had an AK or AR in his car?

Many would - and should.

When I was in high school, we used to to go shooting right after school and instead of going home first, we'd keep the guns in the car - even had a friend who kept his AR in his car so we could go out blasting up the desert right after school.

Never had a school shooting. Never even close.

What a pussified country today.

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:32:37 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Even if they rule the gun as "OK", I'm sure they'll try to screw him because of the bayonet. Gotta make sure we arrest the kid who gives a shit about history and spends his time and money on a great hobby. Unreal.

Well Said Sir.

Poorly Executed, America-Haters.

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:45:29 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I don't get it - he was on the right side.

Really, the left side...

Posted: 10/13/2004 7:52:35 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Muzzle stufferen't arnen't considered "firearms" by the BATFE

It IS a weapon though

A bayonette = knife = weapon

He's screwed

I think we here at arfcom would give him a free pass for being a history buff and for having it in his car in the parking lot instead of in his backpack/locker/coat like some of the other students. Hopefully he'll end up with a few days suspension and a good lesson learned.

+10 on lesson learned.

Rules have little to do with right and wrong but what is politically correct and persecution/prosecution has little to do with justice.

Tj

Posted: 10/13/2004 8:02:35 AM EDT

[#30]

from the local paper: www.recordonline.com/archive/2004/10/13/musket13.htm

Costume gets kid cuffed
Pine Bush senior had replica of Civil War musket for re-enactment

By Christian M. Wade
Times Herald-Record
[email protected]

Pine Bush – Last weekend, Joshua Phelps was fighting Confederate soldiers with a Civil War-era musket in his arms, re-enacting the epic 1863 Battle of Chancellorsville. When the Pine Bush High School senior was done charging around the grassy fields behind Montgomery's Brick House Museum, he tossed his musket, a bayonet and Union soldier's blue uniform in his car and forgot about it.
Yesterday, a security guard at the high school saw the butt of the musket. He called the cops.
The discovery by the guard sparked a chain of events that got the B-average student arrested, suspended from school for five days and facing weapons charges. He could be expelled from school and even jailed.

Phelps, 17, was sitting in study hall when the security guard told him to come to Assistant Principal Aaron Hopmayer's office. When he got there he was told that a rifle had been spotted in his car.
He wasn't concerned. He knew they would understand. "I actually thought it was kind of stupid, at first, when I heard it was about the musket," Joshua said. "I didn't think I'd get arrested over it."
He went with them to the parking lot and let them search his car. They pulled the musket from his back seat along with a uniform and Civil War-era accessories. Minutes later, he was arrested by Town of Crawford police, handcuffed, and charged with fourth-degree criminal possession, a misdemeanor. The cops confiscated the gun.

His mother, Valerie Michaels, is outraged. "They arrested my son for having a Civil War costume," she said yesterday. "The school district has blown this incident totally out of proportion. It's ludicrous."
The musket was part of the teenager's Civil War-era costume, which included his uniform – shoes, leather belt, jacket, hat, powder keg and a leather cartridge box. Over the weekend, Phelps participated in the re-enactment of the May 1863 battle of Chancellorsville at the Brick House Museum, an annual event hosted by the 124th New York State Volunteers, the famed "Orange Blossoms."

The re-enactors model themselves after the original regiment, which was mustered into action from Orange County in the summer of 1862. The unit would take part in the battles of Chancellorsville and Gettysburg the following year – key conflicts in the war.

Michaels said she understands how school officials would be concerned, in the post-Columbine era, after discovering the musket on school grounds. But she said once they learned the musket was a replica, they should have given him a break. "I don't understand why the school wants to push this so far," she said. "There are bigger problems at that high school than this. It just doesn't make any sense."

Town of Crawford police Chief Daniel McCann disagreed. Replica or not, he said, the musket could have been used to fire a projectile, such as a small rock. He said officers found 14 to 15 rolled cartridges with black powder, and a bayonet. "I know this might appear to be a minor thing, but it's not," McCann said. "The musket was found in his car on the high school grounds and could have been used." Pine Bush Superintendent RoseMarie Stark called yesterday's incident a "student discipline matter" and declined comment.

School officials say bloody massacres like the April 20, 1999, one at Columbine High School, have prompted state and federal governments to enact laws about weapons in schools. Many states have a zero-tolerance stance, meaning a fake musket that fires blanks carries the same penalty as a loaded AK-47 assault rifle. In New York, each case must take into account the weapon, the circumstances and the student's history.

"There is a concern among school districts, even with replicas or fake guns," said David Ernst, a spokesman for the state School Boards Association.

In Pine Bush, the high school had recruited students to become involved in the Civil War re-enactors club. Phelps, who joined the Civil War Club a few months ago, said he was looking to get more involved in extra-curricular activities, hoping it would boost his standing on college applications. He found an ad for the club in the school district's annual catalog. After joining, the Orange Blossoms, who are affiliated with the club, gave him a uniform, the replica musket that shoots blanks, a powder keg and a Union soldier's uniform. "If they [the school district] were really so afraid that a replica musket could be used to shoot someone, then why are they giving them out to 17-year-olds?" Michaels asked.

Have a tip about a news story? Contact THR Managing Editor Meg McGuire at [email protected] or call 346-3041.

Posted: 10/13/2004 8:09:24 AM EDT

[#31]

Reason # 537201 to love VA:

Although you must be 18 and it must be locked in a case or the trunk in your car, you may have a rifle in the school parking lot. Even in pussy counties like Fairfax.

New York is, of course, much different.

Posted: 10/13/2004 8:52:16 AM EDT

[#32]

Not to defend the school district but the reason for all this 'zero tolerance' crap is because of asshole parents and lawyers. Parents won't take responsibility for their kids. When the jerkoffs get caught the parents sue the district no matter what the circumstances.

To minimize the liability, school districts pass across the board "zero tolerance" rules that make no distinction between a picture of a gun, a squirtgun, a toy gun or a real gun. It is an assinine policy but the only way they can protect themselves in today's society.

Posted: 10/13/2004 9:03:52 AM EDT

[#33]

Would we all be jumping to defend- or criticize- if he had an AK or AR in his car?

defend.

i don't care if the kid had a minigun in his car. is there something wrong with having a gun in your car?

right outside of work...right now, i DO have an ak (akt98) AND and anshutz match rifle ready to go shooting a match with right after work this afternoon.

if the kid can legally have the arm in his vehicle, wth makes a school any different from any other spot on the planet? the kid could just as easily take his 'assault muzzle loader' into a mcdonalds and start a 'masacre'.

i grew up taking guns to school. we handed them in to the principal as we came out of the field from hunting...got them back at the end of the day.

Posted: 10/13/2004 9:09:44 AM EDT

[#34]

When he went back to his car he should have gotten in and drove off.........

out

Posted: 10/13/2004 9:11:37 AM EDT

[#35]

Town of Crawford police Chief Daniel McCann disagreed. Replica or not, he said, the musket could have been used to fire a projectile, such as a small rock. He said officers found 14 to 15 rolled cartridges with black powder, and a bayonet. "I know this might appear to be a minor thing, but it's not," McCann said. "The musket was found in his car on the high school grounds and could have been used." Pine Bush Superintendent RoseMarie Stark called yesterday's incident a "student discipline matter" and declined comment.

A little off topic but God what an idiot this guy is.

You can buy crack and a handgun from about any gangbanger in America by simply driving up with a fist full of dollars and this asswipe thinks a kid is going to get dressed up in a Civil War outfit and say "Hold on now while I find a rock small enough to fit in this here small hole and load this thing. If I'm real real lucky the rock won't wedge in the constricter and will come out of the hole when I fire this thing."

Another fine example of a Chief that doesn't know which end of a gun a bullet comes out of.

Tj

Posted: 10/13/2004 9:16:44 AM EDT

[#36]

Uh muskets aren't "guns" according to federal law ... now NY state law, I dunno.

Posted: 10/13/2004 9:24:00 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't get it - he was on the right side.

I'm a reenactor, but I don't think reenactors should get a free pass. Would we all be jumping to defend- or criticize- if he had an AK or AR in his car?

I would. I used to put my AR, 03 Springfield, and .22 in the car to go shooting after school. What's the big deal?

Posted: 10/13/2004 9:37:28 AM EDT

[#38]

The fact that the school encouraged him to sign up for this makes it all the more egregious to me. We want you to do this, but your equipemnt is so noxious that we can't even tolerate it if you keep it in the parking lot.

I guess it is ok to have a baseball bat in your car, even though that is a more useful and danagerous "weapon" than a blank firing replica musket.

"shooing small rocks"--the chief should just shut his donut hole lest he sound like a fool.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - STUDENT SUSPENDED FOR HAVING CIVIL WAR WEAPON

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