lumberjack

Quoted: This site ROCKS.

Yes it does.

My pipes are good for now, but thanks for your offer.

im the local propane expert and drunkard, nice to meet you..............................

Quoted: im the local propane expert and drunkard, nice to meet you..............................

Hank, Hank Hill is that you?  

Got any of those preban toilets?

You know the kind plumbers have in THEIR house and that actually work, unlike the loflow junk mandated for the masses.

Pre-ban toilets are hard to come by. However, they are not as expensive as pre-ban firearms. Kohler seems to make the best water saver toilets. Water saver toilets, what a f*cking farse. Most need to be double flushed. Also adjust the float to fill the tank to where it is almost spilling over the overflow tube. Hold the handle down until the tank is empty for those larger objects to pass, to avoid double flushing. This does not always work, but most of the time it does. It depends on your load. Most of the water saver toilets are literally a piece of SHIT. Hope this helps.

Quoted: Quoted: im the local propane expert and drunkard, nice to meet you.............................. Hank, Hank Hill is that you?

Propane Bobby, its the way of the future

I need an electrician . I just had my plumbing updated.

Lumberjack.. Where in Or you at?

c3h8...............God's Gas

Fat_McNasty e-mail sent on locale.

Quoted: If you have any good plumber jokes let's here them, I'm sure I have not heard them all. Chuck

What's the first rule of plumbing school?
Don't chew your finger nails.

What is the one thing you don't have to know to be a plumber?
Who your parents are.

Backstop are you a Pipefitter, because Plumbers are always saying that Pipefitters do not know who there parents are. Pipefitters usually tell us Plumbers "I put my ass where you put your face"

Nope, electrician.

Why yes, I do have several pre-ban toilets.

Too bad UPS refuses to ship them...

Advise?  Do you mean ADVICE?  

Free Advice!

I apologize for the grammatical error. Not all of us plumbers can spell correctly.

Plumber jokes....
Isn't that redundant?

Do you make house calls to Bandon??? Just south of Coos Bay.........

Quoted: I need an electrician . I just had my plumbing updated.

Send the electrician questions my way.

liberty86, e-mail sent. Have tools, will travel. I can talk almost anybody with mechanical abilities through most situations.

Whatamean this site is free!?!?  Iric the Hun sent me a coupon book over a yeara ago and I've been making regular payments!  You mean, ya'll aren't paying for this?  

Line Trash over here.

I'd always heard that all one needs to know about plumbing is;

Hot is on the left,
Cold is on the right,
Shit don't run uphill
and
Payday is on Friday.  

I am an electrician that is office bound at this point but I am a Texas Master of any one has a question.  Here my plumbing joke.

My things to remember as a plumber.

1. Shit roles down hill.

2.  Shit washes off with water

3.  Water won't hurt you.

4.  The boss is a sombitch

5.  Payday is Friday


Question for all you plumbers, why do you all get paid more than us electricians when we handle electricity which is deadly and all ya'll handle is dooky?  No one has ever been able to give me the correct answer to this one.

I am gueesing it is because we get the SHIT end of the stick. It's a SHITTY job. I am really not sure. Talk to your employer, because I'm sure that plumbing and electrical contractors charge about the same per hour. Here in Oregon, we make about 50 cents more per hour than electricians.
However, we do run the risk of contacting all Hepatitis viruses, especially Hepatits B. I have my vaccinations. Not an immediate danger, just long term.

I am the employer,  Two men and a service truck electrical in this area get about 65 to 75 an hour.  One man plumbing crew doing general around the house unstops and small problems in the 80 dollar range.  Maybe the difference is that I am not talking about construction, but trouble shooting service calls.

I will admit one night when it was in the mid 40's and I was trying to unstop a sewer at a rental property I own and had dooky up to my elbow I was thinking plumbers are cheap.



Utility contractors and sewer plant maintenance men have the best jokes of all, I call them shit mechanics.

Ok quick question. Whats the best way to stand when I'm laying pipe?

TexasRooter,
Plumbing contractors in your area must be cutting a fat hog. From what you say that is about what plumbing contractors charge here for service call, usually $60-$80 per hour depending on locale. However, my uncle is a plumber in Texas, DFW area and he makes about $10 less per hour than myself. We get between $24-$35 per hour depending on experience and whether you are UNION or NON-UNION. I personally am UNION at $32.15 per hour plus benefits. Since UNIONS are not very strong in Texas and UNION wages for plumbers is about $18 per hour. So, I have to say that plumbing contractors are cutting a fat hog in your area, if they are charging that per hour. Maybe I need to start a plumbing contracting business in Texas.

badeffect10,
You have never laid your pipe while standing upright, it beats lying down sometimes. You should try it. It adds variety.

Lumber Jack I know of one contractor in West HOuston that is paying non union journeyman about 25 an hour.  But where they shine is the fact that most service calls take less than one hour so the jorneyman racks up 12 to 13 jobs a day in subdivisions changing washers and camode seals and faucets and tank parts.  You know the easy jobs.  We are about 40 miles from downtown houston and are individual hourly wage is lower than what houston journeyman get paid.  

We are just becoming state liscensed on the Electrical trade here in Texas.  Plumbing and AC have been state liscensed for years.  I look for the wages to increase especially if the state starts inspecting in unincorporated areas.In the past a man with no liscense or insurance could just do work outside the city limits without a permit or anything.  Now he can still bootleg a little because there is no county inspection.  

Our shop is competing against a lot of one man operations on the bottom side and the big electrical contractors from Houston on the top side.  So I guess we are nitch players.  We do a lot of small sewer plants and lift stations, a few water plants, school district maintenance ( heavy projects and primary overhead and underground) that their maintenance can't handle, plus work for municipalities that don't have expertise or people to handle their maintenance, graindryer work and cotton gin wiring and controls, concrete plants, aggregate plants, manufacturing facilities, plus we do a little oil field work.  We wire very few houses at all.

Quoted: Ok quick question. Whats the best way to stand when I'm laying pipe?

It's called a dining room table.

Quoted: We are just becoming state liscensed on the Electrical trade here in Texas.

Kind of a heads up - maybe you know more than I do.

My city (electrician) license expires next month, and they are advising people to renew them.  They said some TX cities are going to require them.  Also said they may do away with the state lic in a couple of years.  It's a damn mess, if you ask me.

The other problem is all the non-lic folks that were grandfathered - there's people out there that didn't know squat before 1 Sep 04 and now have a journeyman's lic because of the grandfather rule.  Stupid stupid stupid.

Backstop,
Whatever you do, do not let your license lapse for one day. From what I am hearing you went through an Apprenticeship, don't throw it away. I would imagine that if a licensing requirement becomers state-wide that you will grandfather-in , especially since you can verify completion of an Apprenticeship. This is more than the other's you mentioned could do. If somebody without an Apprenticeship can grandfather, you should definitely be able to. I would welcome the state-wide licensing requirement, it usually brings wages up. Here in Oregon, plumbing, electrical, elevator installation, refrigeration and boiler installation all are licensed trades. Hence, we all make more than un-licensed trades, hands down.

my toilets have very little suction power in my new house. i mean a small turd and 1 wipe can clog them. is this the curse of "low-flow" or does the depth of my septic tank have something to do with this? its only a foot under ground because of underground granite.

DvlDog,
You mention that it is a NEW house, or is it just new to you? If it is a new house, has it been that way from day one? Also if it is a new house, septic tank depth should not be an issue? If it is NEW, have you contacted the plumbing contractor to see what they might have to say? What brand of toilet are they? Some water saver toilets just plain suck new out of box.  If the house is new to you, the septic tank may need to be pumped. I need answers to some of the above questions to properly give assistance.

Quoted: Backstop, Whatever you do, do not let your license lapse for one day.

Advice I'm already following.
I'm carrying a city (San Antonio) and a state (Texas) license now - got no plans on letting them go.

Yep, that grandfathering issue for folks that can't even carry on a conversation in English is bugging some of us.  There was a discussion about 2 years ago about trying to find and buy the NEC in Spanish.

Not trying to get the thread locked - but if they do that, it will divide the work force, for Pete's sake.  Or else me and others had better start Spanish lessons - and that ain't right.

EDIT:  Forgot to say: A state license was required as of 1 Sep 04 for all electricians.  

You have got to be kidding me, these guys can not speak or write English and have a state license. I would be pissed, hell I'm pissed and it does not directly affect me. So you are telling me that the NEC is in Spanish. My mother immigrated from Germany in 1963, and had to learn to speak and write English in order to take a test for citizenship. The test was about history of USA and what else I'm not sure. I know it boils her blood because she went about her citizenship the proper way. I am all for immigrants coming to this country, but you need to learn the language. The country is full of immigrants, actually we are all immigrants somewhere along the line. Gotta love those damn liberals for the good they have done for our country. You know maybe John Fucking Kerry would do us some good, NOT!!! I just realized something this idiot has the initials J.F.K., he is not deserving of these initials.

Quoted: You have got to be kidding me, these guys can not speak or write English and have a state license. I would be pissed, hell I'm pissed and it does not directly affect me. So you are telling me that the NEC is in Spanish. My mother immigrated from Germany in 1963, and had to learn to speak and write English in order to take a test for citizenship. The test was about history of USA and what else I'm not sure. I know it boils her blood because she went about her citizenship the proper way. I am all for immigrants coming to this country, but you need to learn the language. The country is full of immigrants, actually we are all immigrants somewhere along the line. Gotta love those damn liberals for the good they have done for our country. You know maybe John Fucking Kerry would do us some good, NOT!!! I just realized something this idiot has the initials J.F.K., he is not deserving of these initials.

No - maybe I said it wrong.  They were considering it, and it came up and was voted on in our monthly meeting.  We shot down, but it was close.  Bet it comes up again.  And I've heard many guys complain on the job that the test needs to be in Spanish.  What a crock!

Wanna hear something even better?  I went and renewed my city license today - $85 for two years.  As I said before, many many people were grandfathered; if you had so many hours, they just gave you a state license.  Well, to comply with the new state law, many master electrician employers lied.  The guy at the license office said some employers WILL NOT HIRE people unless they have a city license - they know the state license isn't worth squat because many of the people don't know shit.

Many of us wrote the state last year, telling them to get rid of the grandfathering, except give those with a city license a state license.  If you don't already have a city license, you MUST test for a state license.  I don't know why the state did it that way, but they sure fucked things up.

I'm just waiting for someone to sue an employer for not hiring them because they did not have a city license when it is not required.  That should make the news.  HAHA!

Oh yeah - San Antonio does not require anyone to have a city license anymore - but the guy told me that may change in 2005 - and that's why I renewed mine today.

EDIT:  Yes, there are electricians here now that can't carry on a converstaion in English.  Last year while working at CPS, there was a guy who was installing the thermostats (non-Union electrician) who installed a box on a wall that was going to have soundboard applied.  I tried to explain to him that his box would be almost 2" inside the wall when the soundboard was applied.  He couldn't understand me, and I watched as his boss had an argument with the soundboard installers.  Oh well - maybe the boss should hire people that can communicate with everyone else.  Not my problem.  It's America - speak English.  Can't expect everyone here to learn the language of every single immigrant.

But we do have bilboards (and have for over a year) that are in Spanish only.

lumberjack glad to meet you felow UA member here ,plumbers and pipefitters local #430 tulsa i am a  pipefitter/plumber/welder/medical gas installer mainly new construction and commercial remodel.

Pipefitter,
The pleasure is all mine. Have you ever worked through Local #290 Portland, Oregon? I have yet to travel outside of my local, but I have travelled alot within my local. Our local encompasses the entire state plus SW Washington. E-mail sent.

Quoted: Quoted: We are just becoming state liscensed on the Electrical trade here in Texas. Kind of a heads up - maybe you know more than I do. My city (electrician) license expires next month, and they are advising people to renew them.  They said some TX cities are going to require them.  Also said they may do away with the state lic in a couple of years.  It's a damn mess, if you ask me. The other problem is all the non-lic folks that were grandfathered - there's people out there that didn't know squat before 1 Sep 04 and now have a journeyman's lic because of the grandfather rule.  Stupid stupid stupid.

If you have your state license there is no need to renew your city license.  The state took over in October and that is it, forever.  Cities are using this scare tactic to keep funding coming in.  One town that I was mastered in did not renew my license last year saying state would take over by the end of 2004 so they didn't think it was right to charge me.  Another  one went up from thiry dollars for an inactive master to 100 dollars for the last year just to gig me.  Currently their are four masters at our company and they only worked under mine in a couple towns the rest of the towns were under the others.  But I had to pay to keep mine just the same, inactive.

As far as the journeyman thing goes , yes there are a lot that got a journeyman card that just have the hours.  I have two employees that could not pass the sbcci test.  They have many years experience but cannot pass a test to save their souls.  Their city journeyman cards are now converted to state cards.  I would put either one up  against someone who made a passing grade on the test.

What pisses me off is people who worked as union lineman who got journeyman electrician cards that, and here is an old term, never did any narrowbacking in their lives.

Also some plant electricians that were journeymen had the twelvethousand hours and though they did not work under a master were issued masters license even though they  lived in municipalities that had licenses  and gave test, this is not right.

This was designed for electrician that worked in oilfields and communities in the middle of nowhere where their was no governing body at all.

If you had a master issued in bumfuck little town Texas and you worked in the trade for the years required then I dont have a problem with them getting a license, even though I have passed numerous city test and the SBCCI master,  they had a license and earned their daily bread at the trade that  counts with me.

One must remember that people continue to come in an leave the trade.  The filter couldn't catch all the trash but as years go by if they keep a strong test and requirements those that don't belong will become fewer in percentage.

Those that really are screwed are the Houston masters who did everything they could to prevent this,  now I can go their town and work and they can't stop me.  

Edited to say that I had not read past the above quoted post when responding.  I agree contractors that lied to get their men journeymen cards is not worth a shit.  They could lose their master license over this.  It can be proven by employement records.  If you have solid info I would recommend contacting the state board.  The electrician that is on the master board will talk to you and he is interested in keeping the standards high for all concerned.

Quoted: I agree contractors that lied to get their men journeymen cards is not worth a shit.  They could lose their master license over this.  It can be proven by employement records.  If you have solid info I would recommend contacting the state board.  The electrician that is on the master board will talk to you and he is interested in keeping the standards high for all concerned.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe I heard about a bunch of guys who have hired an attorney...

Quoted: Quoted: I agree contractors that lied to get their men journeymen cards is not worth a shit.  They could lose their master license over this.  It can be proven by employement records.  If you have solid info I would recommend contacting the state board.  The electrician that is on the master board will talk to you and he is interested in keeping the standards high for all concerned. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I heard about a bunch of guys who have hired an attorney...

Backstop any info you can forward to me on state license issues would be appreciated.  This is our swimming pool and it is in all tradesmen best interest to keep people from crapping in it.  I think in the longrun the state license will benefit us all.

I was impressed with Colorado's system, a while back when I was helping a hunting buddy with his dads cabin.  He asked me if I wanted to run up to Colorado for the weekend they were building an addition.  So I said WTF I will go and I threw in my pouch,almost as an afterthought. Well on the trip up there the dad says " glad you came along I didn't know how we were going to get all that electrical work done."  I looked over at my friend with that, what have you got me into look. Father goes on to explain that we need to install a new feeder to the house from the meterpole 200 amp, 150 feet.  Also a subfeeder to the existing panel 100 amp about 70 feet.  A new branch circuit panel in the addition and rough in  two bedrooms and two baths.  

When I found out the scope of the work I asked my buddy why in the hell he didn't tell me this before hand at least I could have brought a full set of tools, pull rope , fish tape, knock out cutters, a full set instead of my 1/2 to 1 -1/4 set.  Both the father and the son are salemen for electrical supply houses and had taken me hunting previously at this ranch so I felt obligated to help anyway I could, but there is only so much one man can do with 2 days working and 2 days spent driving. We got it mostly done with a little swearing ( my friend bullshitted and drank both evenings while I went to sleep, so I could rise at dawn to kickass on the work that was laid on my plate).  Lets put it this way paybacks are truly a mofo!  

While we were working I mentioned that I was glad it wasn't in town because I would get in trouble without a license or a permit, thats when they told me, oh we have a permit for homeowners.  IN the middle of bf egypt there was inspection, we are going from bad to worse.  Everywhere you go in Colorado you must have a permit and inspection, this must keep a lot of jacklegs from bootlegging, what we needed in Texas.

So any way, I am sure the inspector knew it wasn't a homeowner that did all that work , he couldn't find much, but he did write them up for of all things, wire secured to close to  receptical boxes WTF?  I thought that romex should be stapled within 12 inches  after leaving a outlet box.


I have reread your previous post and can't understand how in the hell they could give a applicant a journeyman license who worked in the city as an apprentice and had never held some kind of jouneyman license somewhere that is a major glitch in the system.

Quoted: Backstop any info you can forward to me on state license issues would be appreciated.  This is our swimming pool and it is in all tradesmen best interest to keep people from crapping in it.  I think in the longrun the state license will benefit us all.

Will do.

I was impressed with Colorado's system, a while back when I was helping a hunting buddy with his dads cabin.  He asked me if I wanted to run up to Colorado for the weekend they were building an addition.  So I said WTF I will go and I threw in my pouch,almost as an afterthought. Well on the trip up there the dad says " glad you came along I didn't know how we were going to get all that electrical work done."  I looked over at my friend with that, what have you got me into look. Father goes on to explain that we need to install a new feeder to the house from the meterpole 200 amp, 150 feet.  Also a subfeeder to the existing panel 100 amp about 70 feet.  A new branch circuit panel in the addition and rough in  two bedrooms and two baths.   When I found out the scope of the work I asked my buddy why in the hell he didn't tell me this before hand at least I could have brought a full set of tools, pull rope , fish tape, knock out cutters, a full set instead of my 1/2 to 1 -1/4 set.  Both the father and the son are salemen for electrical supply houses and had taken me hunting previously at this ranch so I felt obligated to help anyway I could, but there is only so much one man can do with 2 days working and 2 days spent driving. We got it mostly done with a little swearing ( my friend bullshitted and drank both evenings while I went to sleep, so I could rise at dawn to kickass on the work that was laid on my plate).  Lets put it this way paybacks are truly a mofo!   While we were working I mentioned that I was glad it wasn't in town because I would get in trouble without a license or a permit, thats when they told me, oh we have a permit for homeowners.  IN the middle of bf egypt there was inspection, we are going from bad to worse.  Everywhere you go in Colorado you must have a permit and inspection, this must keep a lot of jacklegs from bootlegging, what we needed in Texas. So any way, I am sure the inspector knew it wasn't a homeowner that did all that work , he couldn't find much, but he did write them up for of all things, wire secured to close to  receptical boxes WTF?  I thought that romex should be stapled within 12 inches  after leaving a outlet box.

HAHA!  Had the (almost) same thing happen to me.  The next time I hear, "It's just a small job" I'm gonna run away!

I think you're right about the 12" for Romex.  But the only time I work with Romex is temp lighting (hung from the deck with jet line) - so I looked that up.  334.30, pg 70-183,  - "at intervals not exceeding 1.4m (4.5 ft) and within 300mm (12 in) of every cabinet, box, fitting."  Maybe that is a city requirement there.    Or a PITA inspector.

I have reread your previous post and can't understand how in the hell they could give a applicant a journeyman license who worked in the city as an apprentice and had never held some kind of jouneyman license somewhere that is a major glitch in the system.

Absolutely.  It does nothing but water down the validity of the license.  It has a bunch of us hopping mad.
Here is the new law: www.license.state.tx.us/electricians/elecrules.htm#7324

73.24. Licensing Requirements--Waiver of Examination Requirements. (Effective March 1, 2004, 29 TexReg 1653) (a) Upon acceptable proof of an applicant's qualifications, the Executive Director may waive the examination requirement of §73.21 if the application is filed on or before June 1, 2004. (b) Acceptable proof of an applicant's qualifications may include any or all of the following: (1) a form prescribed by the Department that certifies completion of the required hours of on-the-job training under the supervision of a master electrician or master sign electrician as appropriate.

Scary, eh.  All they had to do was get a master to sign off saying they had the hours.

The side job issue is huge here.  Wow.  Something also in the new law states that a master can now only pull a license for the shop that he was "signed on" with.    I don't know all the details bacause I'm not a master and I don't do side work.   As it is, they keep me plenty busy.  Except for the 3.5 months I was sitting at the house.

Hopefully, they'll get their shit together, and this state license will make some improvements.  Some of the quality of work would probably scare you.  

My pet peeve: not properly labeling junction boxes.  I work commercial bldgs, and am (keep getting sent back there) back at USAA and we're remodeling two more bldgs.  I spend more time tracing out circuits, only to find the box is marked wrong, I'm in the wrong panel and the wrong electric room.  Annoys me to no end!  Take the extra 1 minute and write on the damn cover...Sheesh!  HAHA!

Have a good one.

Here's a joke that applies to that last post.  It was kind of a rhyme that we would use after a customer said it was a small job.  It goes like this, even the plumbers will like.

THE IMPOSSIBLE WE DO RIGHT AWAY,


  IT'S THE 5 MINUTE JOBS THAT TAKE ALL DAY!!!!



I do not care if my guys take side work as long as they follow a simple guideline. We work a standard 45 hour week 5 nine hour days.  Plus some Saturday work if any of them want it.   After that they can do what they want.

 1  Don't work for our customers.

 2  Don't work on commercial businesses in our AO

 3  Do any residential you want.

 4   Don't let your side work get in the way of my jobs.

With the new state lisence in effect they are breaking the law doing side work, even working in the county.  It remains to be seen how this will be handled.

We are fixing on wiring a house starting on Friday.  We wouldn't be doing that one except it is for my secretary.  When I was 14 to 18 years old me and my brother got all the house wiring we needed.  Those were simpler times in the mid 70's when a man could make a living wiring houses.  Now the hispanics wire them and its wam bam thankyou mam.  We have too much insurance and too high a wage rate to come out on houses.


The side job issue is huge here. Wow. Something also in the new law states that a master can now only pull a license for the shop that he was "signed on" with. I don't know all the details bacause I'm not a master and I don't do side work. As it is, they keep me plenty busy. Except for the 3.5 months I was sitting at the house.


If your meaning pull a permit that was always correct, in that I pull a permit for the company I was employeed with.  I don't pull a company permit for any one outside the company, in the old days one could do that.  But the liability is too high now.

What has changed is the contractor license with the state.  I don't know how that interacts with our masters.  I assume that if I wanted to run a separate company and work for this one too it would get dicey, say work under my brothers license here and have a  completly different company to do say street lighting or municipal sewer plants.

The state license has helped in one area and that is test taking.  I started out with one master in my home town in I think 1984 then I got another town to recipricate and give me a license then I took a test for another town and then I took the sbcci that let me get licenses in a bunch of small towns around Houston but not Houston.  Which was no problem since I don't venture in that bigpond to hunt for work.  Still my brother had used his master to get lisences in towns like  Alvin and Arcola,Sugarland, Katy  and a lot of other little towns around here.  So all of a sudden we have between us a pot full of license fees and bs to take care of.  Now with the state lisence if we go to Edna or Elcampo we don't have to wonder, do they reciprocate or recognize the sbcci test, we now know we can get somthing permitted, we may have to pay a bs fee but we will get a permit.

One more joke for ya'll

The contractor had to meet with the lady having the home built and it had been a tough job with several misunderstandings along the way.  But the short rows were in sight.  As they walked in the den he asked what color paint would like in this room and she said , cream colored white would look so good in here wouldn't it ? He said 'yesmam' as he wrote it down and walked to the window and hollared out 'GREEN SIDE UP'.   She looked perplexed as they walked into the hall bath, he said 'what will float your  boat in here'.  She said ' see this swath of mauve it will go so well with the tile we want'.  Contractor scribles down  and walks to the window 'GREEN SIDE UP',  and heads out for the boys room.  What about in here he says and she studies awhile and says 'you know that birds egg blue would look great in here',  about that time the contrator hollars again GREEN SIDE UP.  She looked over at him and yelled YOU HAVEN'T PAID ATTENTION TO ONE THING I SAID TODAY!!   He looked at her with a surprised look as he recited all the colors she had asked for.  Then he said 'the reason I keep going over to the window and yelling green side up is because I have a crew of aggies laying the grass today'.

hehe go coogs!!

TexasRooter and Backstop,
I had login problems, due to a faux pas on my part when I changed my e-mail. Stupid ass me typed in the e-mail incorrectly, rendering access to nothing here but viewing. I had potential buyers here that I could not reply to and their e-mails were not getting to me. Glad that is fixed.
I am sure glad I do not have to deal with the bullshit ya'll are enduring. What a fucked up mess, hope it all works out in the end. Glad to see two fellow tradesman from the same area vent their frustration about the new licensing requirements and lack of experience of those grandfathered. I have no idea if our trade endured the same crap, because as long as I can remember plumbers had to be licensed at the state level.
One of you mentioned about tramping on this thread, don't sweat it. I have read where others get upset when guys converse on their thread. Myself, I do not care as it is quite informative and interesting to read.
As a strong supporter of Journeyman licensing requirements, I would like to see all states standardize for all trades. The wages would be higher and quality of work would be better. As you all know, alot of trades slam their work together and fix it later, if at all. This is very apparent in the residential market. My philosophy is that a house is a persons single largest investment and would not want my house slammed together. This was handed down to me as an Apprentice from the Journeyman that trained me in residential. My work is the same whether I'm working residential or commercial, do it right the first time which is the fastest in the end.
Next time I'm in Texas, I have to visit Six Flags since the flooding prohibited it back in June. There are alot more thrill rides than when I last visited. Hey gotta go e-mails are flying my way from potential buyers at ARFCOM and Gunbroker.
Take care talk to ya later,
Lumberjack