We are looking to escape Kalifornistan, and looking into AZ or NM. Can any of you that reside in either AZ or NM tell me the pro's and con's of living there?

Thanks.

DrFrige.

The pros of New Mexico.  

Small Population
Great Hunting if you are into that.
weather
relatively light crime
you want an AR, ya can have all ya want, CCW to with permit.
laid back life style
If you fly fish we have the San Juan


Cons
Bill Richardson
Democratic leaning state
to many folks expect the government to help them (welfare)

Overall I like it here, will die here some day.  Never Gonna leave.

I'm in santa Fe, it's cool. It's illeagal to shoot in the county but it is not a law that is enforced. The houses are very expensive here. The sunsets are amazing. The city is quite liberal. There are omly 2 gunshops here. Small population, a lot are boarder jumpers. . When I think of more I'll let you know. I have lived here all my life and like it very much

Checking in as ordered. Sand, lots of sand. We don't need anymore sand.

Arizona has it all.  Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the country, but drive for two hours and you can be alone by yourself in either the desert or the woods.  
Conservative, mostly Republican, except for the gov. but she isn't too bad for a demo (put it this way, I would rather have Gov. Napilitano than Gov. Sharwzenegger or Gov. Davis or anyone else California has had in the last 15 years
Very conservative gun laws, must issue CCW permit state, Class III friendly, open carry allowed.
ASU is a good school, and cheap compared to the rest of the country.
We got Sherriff Joe Arpahio who most people like (unless you write for the New Times or work for him)
Don't forget we got the Grand Canyon, one of the seven wonders of the world, and meteor crater
Cons- lot of immigrants, damn hot in the summer

You might want to check out the respective Hometown Forums.

... You and the missus fly on over for a weekend, I'll "show" you many, many reasons and places to move here

Quoted: Arizona has it all.  Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the country, but drive for two hours and you can be alone by yourself in either the desert or the woods.   Conservative, mostly Republican, except for the gov. but she isn't too bad for a demo (put it this way, I would rather have Gov. Napilitano than Gov. Sharwzenegger or Gov. Davis or anyone else California has had in the last 15 years Very conservative gun laws, must issue CCW permit state, Class III friendly, open carry allowed. ASU is a good school, and cheap compared to the rest of the country. We got Sherriff Joe Arpahio who most people like (unless you write for the New Times or work for him) Don't forget we got the Grand Canyon, one of the seven wonders of the world, and meteor crater Cons- lot of immigrants, damn hot in the summer

+1

I think people are friendlier here than in So Cal. The general pro-freedom and "live and let live" attitude reminds me of the California that I grew up in twenty years ago.

Also, the Phoenix area has industry, sports (baseball, hockey, basketball, and football), ASU, Sky Harbor Int. Airport (cheap flights), lots of gun shops, and a huge gun show (don't forget the SAR show).  

But the most important thing is that we are a part of the UZI triangle and NM isn't

Quoted: ... You and the missus fly on over for a weekend, I'll "show" you many, many reasons and places to move here

+1

Sorry, Arizona is full.

Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full.

I have a 'Hamilton' here for you that says it isn't.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full. I have a 'Hamilton' here for you that says it isn't.

... It isn't - need a mailing address?

I have lived 5 years in Albuquerque, NM and 20+ in the Phoenix Metro area. I don't know where you are with a family or career, so I'll try and touch on many area's.

NM

Small Population
Big city features, without the big city.(unless you like clubbing and that kind of crap, it doesn't exist there yet.)
Slower economy. Government Labs, Intel, Honeywell and call centers seem to dominate the economy there. ABQ always seems about 10yrs behind the times.
Weather. It's fantastic in my opinion. Skiing in the winter, warm enough to camp in the summer without a tent.
Hunting is great. Lots of rugged country + very few in state hunters.
Education. Behind the times...depending on where you live. If you live in an middle/upper class area schools are pretty decent and funded, if not...well stay where you are.
Crime. Where I lived it wasn't an issue. I understand CCW is an option now.
Firearms. C3 and CCW friendly. There are a couple good gun stores, but nothing like what Phoenix has to offer.

AZ

Big City(#6 in Pop I think). Has most of the big city problems also. Still has lots of open country to explore.
Economy. Much more robust economy. Lot's of opportunity in different area's.
Weather. I really enoy the weather, but it you can't adjust to the heat you will not survive. Cool pines are only an hour away. Skiiing here sucks, camping season is long, hunting is alright depending on what you like. There are alot more hunters to compete with for tags and spots.
Education. Arizona as a whole usually gets a bum rap. Again it really depends on where you live. House prices are going up daily. I have a middle class home I bought 2 years ago and couldn't affor what my house would sell for now. Most houses are subdivison style.
Crime. Again, it depends on where you live. I forget to close my garage once in awhile and nothing is bothered, unlike my office on the other side of town where a meth head parks in my spot at work continually.
Firearms. C3 and CCW frienly, even more so than ABQ. Great gun shops.

For me I would rather live in Albuquerque. What keeps me from doing this is I would have to make a career change and still not make enough $$ to live where I want. Economy and career aside, to me NMis a winner in all other categories, except firearms, but that's what FFL transfers are for.

Dr Friges wife here....

In Arizona we were looking farther north....less of the awful phoenix heat

Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full.

I know my neck of the woods is getting ran over with Kalifornistans and Texass's. If you want to move to AZ stay in the valley, don't come up to the mountains and try to turn it into where you came from!

Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full.

+1

I love it here. Sure it gets hot in the summer, but that's what air conditioning is for. You get used to it after being outside for a while anyway.

Shooting wise, I love being able to goto the desert and just blast the crap out of stuff. I don't like shooting ranges. We mostly shoot targets and garbage other people have brought to shoot. The place I shoot at apparently will be developed in a couple of years, so it's all going to be cleared and cleaned up and ruined by subdivisions. I'm honestly not that concerned with the garbage. One of the many negatives of population growth.

Quoted: Dr Friges wife here...

... I already made an offer to show you Arizona.

... Very little of it would be in the desert, most would be in Ponderosa pines above 7,000 feet

Quoted: I'm in santa Fe, it's cool. It's illeagal to shoot in the county but it is not a law that is enforced. The houses are very expensive here. The sunsets are amazing. The city is quite liberal. There are omly 2 gunshops here. Small population, a lot are boarder jumpers. . When I think of more I'll let you know. I have lived here all my life and like it very much

Wife's grandparents are there. They call it Santa GAY.

Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full.

Yep.

It's full of assholes and snowbirds.

Too hot.

The governor is a bulldyke.

Senior Senator is a psychotic RINO.

Not enough places to shoot.

Lots of old folks driving 17mph in the left lane with their right blinker on.

Dead-center of "The Uzi Triangle".


Ugh... If I were you, I'd try New Mexico. Yep.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full. I know my neck of the woods is getting ran over with Kalifornistans and Texass's. If you want to move to AZ stay in the valley, don't come up to the mountains and try to turn it into where you came from!

Well, would you rather have it run over by liberal CA assholes or a conservitave CA shooter?  And don't be so confident in the conservative bent of your state, it is getting more liberal by the day, just like Nevada.  I would think you would welcome more conservatives.

come to tucson we can use all the non liberals we can get.

I'm actually gonna be heading down that way sooner or later, most likely the Phoenix area as I have friends and family down there.  My school was just bought out by a national company and they have a school down there so that may be the trip if they can keep my salary near the same.  The public schools don't pay squat there and I would probably take almost a 20k pay cut if I went that route. Hard to move away from the dogs though.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full. Yep. It's full of assholes and snowbirds. Too hot. The governor is a bulldyke. Senior Senator is a psychotic RINO. Not enough places to shoot. Lots of old folks driving 17mph in the left lane with their right blinker on. Dead-center of "The Uzi Triangle". Ugh... If I were you, I'd try New Mexico. Yep.

Plus, New Mexico is more beautiful.

AB

Quoted: come to tucson we can use all the non liberals we can get.

i agree, !! what ever you do..., stay away from PHX, it runs about 10 degrees hotter there in summer than in Tucson, we have several shooting ranges in the southern part of town & vast amount of desert to shoot in.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry, Arizona is full. I know my neck of the woods is getting ran over with Kalifornistans and Texass's. If you want to move to AZ stay in the valley, don't come up to the mountains and try to turn it into where you came from!

[SARCASM]Well My FIRST order of business is to NOT ONLY pack up my family and move there but to bring as MANY LIBERAL GUN LAWS as well.

I wanna ban all ARF's(Oooh that hurt even writing that)
I wanna ban 50 cals
I want registration
I want to ban hi cap mags

I have a mission to change that place!! [/SARCASM]

I am on YOUR side!!! I want to ESCAPE the liberal laws. This state is self destructing by the minute. Its a lost cause. In 20 years when the sheeple wake up and see that this state is bankrupt because they handed out all their money to the greedy and the welfare takers, The businesses have all left, taxes are draining the homeowners, Then WE, The Conservatives MAY want to come back to fix it. But as long as the morons are running the show, this state is GONE!

***Arnold rolled back the Worker's Comp 20%... Yeah thats great but it went up 300% in the last 3 years! (2 steps back, 1 step forward)

***Emergency rooms are closing, city council doesnt have the $$$ to keep them open BUT the city council has the money to replace COUNTY SEALS that have a cross on them because it OFFENDS the ACLU.

***State Leg passes a law banning 50 cals EVEN THOUGH THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE CRIME COMMITTED WITH ANY 50's

The ONLY things I will miss are my family and The Anaheim Angels.. I am sure I can find a job there whether it be AZ or NM. I think refrigerators break there as well. Who knows, Arte Moreno lives in AZ maybe he will move the team there and I may convince my family to move there as well.

Phoenix metro area SUCKS DEAD ______________ !!! You fill in the blank.

New Mexico is looking better & better all the time.

WATER SHORTAGE IS HERE. RATIONING STARTS NEXT YEAR.

May need to do Missouri. Never been there , but they have water.

Us native zonies are fed up with all the Kalifornians. We'll be closing the border soon and booting them out at bayonet point.

We have to let all the illegal Mexicans stay to do our yard work. If the damn Kalifornians would do our yardwork we'd let them stay and boot out the Mexicans. At least the Kalifornians speak a similar language. Although the Kalifornians would probably require more supervision.

Quoted: Although the Kalifornians would probably require more supervision.

Because they are fu*king laaaaaaaaaaazy!! Thats right I SAID IT! If they worried more about work ethics than surfing duuuuuuuuuuude, they wouldnt have to do stuff over again. If any CA member got offended from what I just said... PROVE ME WRONG!

Moved to AZ 19 yrs. ago, saw a bumper sticker that read, "Welcome to Arizona, now go home" I didn't understand it then. I do now........

Also "Snowbird liceses sold no limit"    

One day, I may have to move to a dry climate, my allergies and such get worse every year...

Get Ready AZ I may be heading your way in a few years.....and I am a transplanted half crazed Yankee stuck in Okie land.....

OH !!! I almost forgot. I once heard of a story that a Kalifornia family (Liberholes) movd to Colorado. they moved in a 'ranch' type area and they had a dog. The dog one day wondered over to the neighbors house that had chickens and killed a few of them. Neighbor brought the dog back to the owners by the collar and asked if it was their dog. They said 'yes'. Rancher told the Kalifornians that if the dog wandered over to his property to kill any more chickens, he would kill it.

Sure enough about a week or so later they let the dog out and an hour or so later the dog was laid down on their front porch. DEAD.

So, in typical Kalifornia fashion they tried to sue the rancher. the judge just laughed at them and said. I dont know how you did things in Ca, but here, He had the right to shoot your dog and sue YOU for his losses.

Now this is where the story had split. In one version they got out and moved back to CA and in another version they went on to try to introduce gun laws into the CO state legislature.

Dont know what part (if any) is true. Either way it must be some "sort of true" at least to some degree.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm in santa Fe, it's cool. It's illeagal to shoot in the county but it is not a law that is enforced. The houses are very expensive here. The sunsets are amazing. The city is quite liberal. There are omly 2 gunshops here. Small population, a lot are boarder jumpers. . When I think of more I'll let you know. I have lived here all my life and like it very much Wife's grandparents are there. They call it Santa GAY.

Sheesh...you ain't kidding.  There are so many "rainbow" and "blessed be" and "Kerry" stickers there, it makes me sick to my stomach to go down there for supplies.  I'd almost rather brave the wal-mart in Espanola (aka heroin-ville).  

Overall, NM is awesome.  In some ways, I'd like to be in Phoenix, just because of the higher concentration of gun culture.  (Lots of good manufacturers and shooters there).  OTOH, being in rural NM certainly has advantages (my job, for example).

In Arizona we were looking farther north....less of the awful phoenix heat

Look to Prescott.  I have done an artshow there, The Phippen Show and I really like that town.  Small, great atmosphere and it seems like an easy going place.

Quoted: Quoted: Dr Friges wife here... ... Very little of it would be in the desert, most would be in Ponderosa pines above 7,000 feet

This is where I live!!! Keep the kalifornistan's down in the valley. We like the way we live and do not like change!

I was born and raised here and I love it here! But when people from other states and big cities move up to the mountains to get away from all the crap they let happen in their states or communities they soon realize what they left behind. That is when all the changes start. The town is to small, the local governments do a poor job,  the local vendors charge to much we will shop some where else, we need a Wal-Mart, we don't like the way our neighbors yard looks, we don't like the dirt roads, the locals drive to slow, there is nothing to do here......

There is nothing wrong with wanting to better your life and the life of your family. But if you are going to move to get away from it all then do it. And when you get where your going  just be a good neighbor, don't try to change anything to meet your standards. That's why you left where you came from, because someone wanted to change things in a way you didn't like.

I have seen ranches shut down because of commie eco-terrorists and animal rights activists. I have seen sawmills and logging companies shut down because of commie eco-terrorists and tree huggers. I have seen lands closed off and roads closed because of commie eco-terrorists that have infiltrated the US Forrest Service. The bottom line on this is all of the lost jobs and broken homes in the end. Most of these groups are from the federal republik of kalifornistan so I hope you can understand my dislike for anyone from that state.

Myself, my family and my friends have all been directly effected with the influx of people that have moved here and want to change things. And all of the ARFCOM members down in the valley know how this effects them to. That is why they come up here to get away from all of the crap that is down there.

Quoted: Well, would you rather have it run over by liberal CA assholes or a conservitave CA shooter?  And don't be so confident in the conservative bent of your state, it is getting more liberal by the day, just like Nevada.  I would think you would welcome more conservatives.

That is because of all of the kalifornistans that where let in!

You can take this how ever you like, but I drive down the road now and all I see are Kalifornistan and Texass license plates. I wonder if I am still in ARIZONA!!!


DrFrige, if you promise to be nice and not bring your liberal gun laws we will let you in

Quoted: Us native zonies are fed up with all the Kalifornians. We'll be closing the border soon and booting them out at bayonet point.

+1


I'm not a native zonie, but I'll be more than happy to help you force the liberal weinies back across the Colorado at the point of a bayonet.



"March or die, granola eater!"

Quoted: In Arizona we were looking farther north....less of the awful phoenix heat Look to Prescott.  I have done an artshow there, The Phippen Show and I really like that town.  Small, great atmosphere and it seems like an easy going place.

Nah...  move to Sedona, infiltrate the fuckin' hippie culture up there....    then boot them the fuck out.


[cartman]Goddamn hippies.[/cartman]

I've been to both places in the middle of the summer, I have relatives in Albuquerque.  As for weather, NM wins hands down.  The summer in AZ was the hottest MF'ing place I've been too (and I've been around).  The breeze felt like a giant hairdryer on HOT blowing right at you.  F'd up.  Nobody on the streets except dumb tourists like me. Also, HUMID.  Weather changes have taken place in AZ thanks to people moving in.
NM is a lot better in the summer, but very BRIGHT.  Bring sunglasses.  The winter nights can get cold, but they usually warm up ok in the day.  NM is a lot more backwards then AZ, but maybe thats a good thing (?)  Lots of lesbians there too, and not the hot kind, the real kind (butch).  Santa Fe's prices have driven the Mexicans out, they all moved to Albuquerque.  Not much in Alb, almost like being trapped on an island.  Nearest big city is Denver which is many hours away.

Sedona needs a good rifle range...the Red Rocks new agers would make a nice backstop.

Quoted: Sedona needs a good rifle range...the Red Rocks new agers would make a nice backstop.

Funny, that's exactly what I thought when I drove through Sedona.  

Quoted: I've been to both places in the middle of the summer, I have relatives in Albuquerque.  As for weather, NM wins hands down.  The summer in AZ was the hottest MF'ing place I've been too (and I've been around).  The breeze felt like a giant hairdryer on HOT blowing right at you.  F'd up.  Nobody on the streets except dumb tourists like me. Also, HUMID.  Weather changes have taken place in AZ thanks to people moving in. NM is a lot better in the summer, but very BRIGHT.  Bring sunglasses.  The winter nights can get cold, but they usually warm up ok in the day.  NM is a lot more backwards then AZ, but maybe thats a good thing (?)  Lots of lesbians there too, and not the hot kind, the real kind (butch).  Santa Fe's prices have driven the Mexicans out, they all moved to Albuquerque.  Not much in Alb, almost like being trapped on an island.  Nearest big city is Denver which is many hours away.

That's right! Every terrible thing you said about Arizona is true! Usually worse!

It gets so fucking hot in Phoenix in the summer that many people look like cattle walking around with a seat belt buckle brand on their asses!

The city is regularly 10 degrees hotter than the surrounding desert due to the heat island effect produced by all the concrete, asphalt, and air conditioners.

Coyotes will eat any small pets you have.

West Nile virus.

Snowbirds driving a 40 foot Winnebago at 12 mph in the left with their right turn blinker on for 19 miles.

Remote enclaves of Mormon Separatists practicing polygamy.

Illegal aliens, both Mexican and OTM, streaming across the border.

Illegal alien daylaborers loitering on street corners harassing any contractors that come by in their quest for "El Norte good life." Same people trashing their congregation areas, pissing on walls, harassing passersby.

Scorpions.

Snakes.

Gila monsters.

Jumping cholla.

Dogs and cats living together.....  mass hysteria!





I keep saying this, and I firmly believe it: if it weren't for the heat in Phoenix during the summertime, this place would be worse than SoCal. As it is, the heat tends to keep a lot of the loonies from living here year-round.

  I love fixing A/C's in the Summer here. Just finished my ninth Summer here.  Now that summer is over, it's time for the best weather in the country for nine months.

Quoted: . Scorpions. Snakes. Gila monsters. Jumping cholla. .

First of all WHAT THE F*** IS A JUMPING CHOLLA???
AND tell me about scorpions there. Chances of even seeing one versus being stung by one.?

Quoted: Quoted: Jumping cholla. . First of all WHAT THE F*** IS A JUMPING CHOLLA??? AND tell me about scorpions there. Chances of even seeing one versus being stung by one.?

The cactus from Hell.

Quoted: Quoted: . Scorpions. Snakes. Gila monsters. Jumping cholla. . First of all WHAT THE F*** IS A JUMPING CHOLLA??? AND tell me about scorpions there. Chances of even seeing one versus being stung by one.?

These little buggers hurt! They are called jumping cactus because they break apart very easily. Like when your out hiking and barley touch them many pieces break off and fall toward you "jumping"
azuswebworks.com/html/tbcholla.htm
azuswebworks.com/html/c_cholla.htm
www.maion.com/photography/search/index.php?q=cholla%20cactus
Scorpions? Yes you will see them if your flooring isn't a light tan color. Chances of getting stung by one is pretty slim but it does happen.
azuswebworks.com/html/scorpion.htm
Gila monsters are a venomous beaded lizard. Very rarely seen and not likely to bite you. Just stay away from them if you see one.
www.azuswebworks.com/html/monsterl.htm
Snakes of Arizona
www.reptilesofaz.com/herp-snakes.html

... There are many beautiful places in Arizona where you can drive for miles off the highway and not see a single soul.

... Why, I just did it today to get some varmint hunting in.

... Changing leaves season


... No one but me and my AR10 for miles and miles

Quoted: ... There are many beautiful places in Arizona where you can drive for miles off the highway and not see a single soul. ... Why, I just did it today to get some varmint hunting in. ... Changing leaves season members.cox.net/stevenaz1/pines-a.jpg ... No one but me and my AR10 for miles and miles members.cox.net/stevenaz1/GP-varmita.jpg

Where is this at?

... #1 near Young turnoff from 87

... #2 near Snowflake

Quoted: ... #1 near Young turnoff from 87 ... #2 near Snowflake

Snowflake Arizona, now theres some ffunny shit!

About scorpions.

If you buy a new construction house then chances are that you'll have scorpions for a while. One house I lived in had them everywhere and I dumped every pesticide known to man in to the place. Nothing will make your heart stop like almost stepping on one barefoot. Imagine a bee sting x5. I had a friend roll over on one in his sleep and it stung him 12 times on the back. Just make sure your covers do not touch the floor.

Quoted: ***Arnold rolled back the Worker's Comp 20%... Yeah thats great but it went up 300% in the last 3 years! (2 steps back, 1 step forward)

DrFrige, did you see the bond issue on the CA Ballot to issue $3 Billion dollars in bonds to fund stem cell research and establish the CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE FOR REGENERATIVE RESEARCH.  Actual cost is $200 million per year for 30 years to pay off the bonds ($3billion) and interest ($3billion).  I thought we wanted to balance the budget?  This is showing a likelihood of passing.  I swear I bet you could pass a clean air, clean water or cure cancer bond every year for ANY amount.  People are clueless.