I think this may be the first time that you CAN say that it wasn't a person that (almost) killed someone, but in fact it was almost killed by the actual gun (or more specifically the muzzle flash)
Here's the story:
It was around 6:30pm, and I was tired of not having done anything all day long. (well I was supposed to be studying for my test tomorrow, but that can wait)
So I decided to make a really quick run to the range and squeeze off a few rounds. One out of the two guns I took with me was my Soviet M44, because I had lots of ammo at home. By the time I got to the range it started getting a little dark, and you could really appreciate the enormous muzzle-flash these things crank out. Some guy out at the range, was standing about three feet to the side of me, STARING at my muzzle-flash. After about three rounds of him looking at it, he suddenly starts jerking around and drops to the floor on the fourth shot: A million thoughts go rushing through my head. At first everyone thought he was joking, but by the time he began rolling on the floor it dawned on us that he was having a seizure.
Not knowing what to do, I reached for my cell phone to dial 911....No signal. The range here is far away from everything in the middle of the woods. His friend drop to his knees and held him as he started to choke on his own fluids. I suggested that we should roll him on his side so he wouldn't drown.  He started bleeding profusely out of his mouth and nose. It was an awful sight. I held his hand as he continued to jerk around. Luckily, one of the people at the range got reception on his phone and dialed 911.  The ambulance took forever to get there, but we all stayed with him until they arrived. His pulse began to calm down and his breathing became less obstructed. In the end, he slowly began to regain consciousness when the paramedics arrived.

I learned a lesson today:
Don't ever go to the range alone (I did tonight)
This can happen to anyone (this guy had no history of epilepsy nor seizures)
But most importantly I learned how fragile life is. Something as stupid as muzzle flash almost killed this man. And now he probably has a medical history of epilepsy that will prevent him from doing a lot of things in his life.
oh yeah and: Flash suppressors save lives

Flash suppressor save lives!

Thanks for the story.

wow!

flash suppressors are evil,  BAN THEM.  

i've heard of blinking stoplights causing seizures too.

There had to be more to this guys story. I beleive you told the entire incedent but the guy that had the reaction , here had to of been something wrong. Anyway, glad he is ok. Keep us posted.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think your rifle is guilty of attempted murder.
Unless you live in California.

Quoted: flash suppressors are evil,  BAN THEM.   i've heard of blinking stoplights causing seizures too.

Yup thats why people with epilepsy aren't allowed to drive IIRC...As I said, something as stupid as muzzle flash may have changed this guy's life forever.

Quoted: There had to be more to this guys story. I beleive you told the entire incedent but the guy that had the reaction , here had to of been something wrong. Anyway, glad he is ok. Keep us posted.

His buddy said that he hadn't slept for the past 24 hours...I don't know if that could have anything to do with  it...


After this, there is no doubt in my mind that Soviet M44's win the Muzzle-flash contest HANDS DOWN!

My mother has those, not a pretty sight, scares me shit less every time. Never know when it could cause a stroke.

If it wasn't your flash suppressor, it would have been something else.  The light triggered a response.  That light could've easily come from somewhere else.

I'm willing to bet he'll be taking meds now after this photophobic reaction.

He's an epileptic.

Lockedon: Sometimes flashing of lights caused seizures in some people, in this case your muzzle flashes. There has been document instances of television causing seizures in some people because of this flahing lights.

Wow you sure had your share of excitement for tonight. My oldest son had a siezure right in my dining room. It scarced the living daylights out of my wife. We called 911 and the ambulance
FD rescue got here in less than 5 minutes. My son starting coming around while he was in the ambulance. Funny thing is that he doesn't even remember passing out.

That reminds me of a story about some cartoon in Japan that caused a bunch of kids to have seizures.

Quoted: If it wasn't your flash suppressor, it would have been something else.  The light triggered a response.  That light could've easily come from somewhere else. I'm willing to bet he'll be taking meds now after this photophobic reaction. He's an epileptic.

I didn't have a flash suppressor....(I don't think they ever made any for M44s) What I ment was that this could have been prevented if everyone had a F/S...I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything else either. It was definately the M/F.

I feel bad for him.

He hadn't slept in 24 hours and he headed to the rifle range? WTF? Go to bed dumbass.

Bob

Quoted: That reminds me of a story about some cartoon in Japan that caused a bunch of kids to have seizures.hr

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:cCXyFUu8PjgJ:www.angkor.com/2bangkok/Simpsons/nelly.jpg

Quoted: Quoted: If it wasn't your flash suppressor, it would have been something else.  The light triggered a response.  That light could've easily come from somewhere else. I'm willing to bet he'll be taking meds now after this photophobic reaction. He's an epileptic. I didn't have a flash suppressor....(I don't think they ever made any for M44s) What I ment was that this could have been prevented if everyone had a F/S...I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything else either. It was definately the M/F. I feel bad for him.

I apologize for my miswording.  My point was simply that it could have easily been caused by a number of other stimuli.

Not your fault.  And from the sounds of it, you did well in caring for him.  The most important thing to do in those instances is protect his head from hitting somehting that may casue injury.  You did good.

Turning the guy on his side was smart.  If I remember correctly, the other things to do are to make sure to clear the area around the person who is having the siezure to avoid impact injury.  And, if at all possible, find something to wedge in the person's mouth to bite down on, so they don't bite their tongue.  Hopefully one of the ARFCOM Docs will stop in to clarify.....  

Quoted: Wow!  Makes you think, doesn't it.  I wonder if he bit is tongue/lips and was bleeding from that?  Yikes.

Almost definately. My wife is epileptic and I've never heard of bleeding except when the person having the seizure bites themselves.

I feel for the guy, but I almost feel worse for his family (wife/gf). Not many things are more frustrating or make you feel more helpless than watching a loved one going through that.

Quoted: His buddy said that he hadn't slept for the past 24 hours...I don't know if that could have anything to do with  it...

That probably had a lot to do with it.  Lack of sleep is one of the triggers for a seizure.

I've heard you need to stuff something in their mouth to bite down on.  
Like a piece of clothing, etc...
Don't be picky.  Maybe the front of a shoe or something....

The siezure trigger here is referred to as "flicker vertigo".  The person may not be an "epileptic", but may be suseceptable to light stimuli at a certain frequency and wavelength.  Seems like that ruskie flame thrower hit it just right.

Other items that can cause it are oncomming headlights flashing thru guardrail sopports, sunlight comming thru airplane propellers at certain RPM's. etc.

Quoted: I've heard you need to stuff something in their mouth to bite down on.   Like a piece of clothing, etc... Don't be picky.  Maybe the front of a shoe or something....

I've heard the same, but I also heard the opposite: that that is a myth and you're not supposed to do that. Can somebody clarify please?

There is no way in hell this guy doesnt have a history of siezures


SGatr15

Never place anything in the mouth of someone seizing!  It can become a choking hazard!  Not to mention they could bite down and chop your fingers off!

my baby sister is epileptic,any rythmic flashing lights would cause an epileptic to go into a seizures

exp.-some tv shows,video games ,flashing red lights,red and blues on a cop car,turn lights,strob lights are a big no no for an epileptic,even getting to hot or scared will cause them to have a seizures



if someone is having a seizure
1.) turn them on their side
2.) jacket or coat to act as a buffer zone so they don't hurt themselves
3.)don't pin their legs or arms down can do more damage then good to yourself or them
4.)don't stick fingers in their mouth or you wont have fingers(yes it has happened to people before

* do not take as final vertic new rules come out everyday so this may be outdated at time of submission

(yes my spelling is bad but they don't have a spellchecker for foxfire )

Quoted: His buddy said that he hadn't slept for the past 24 hours...

... methamphetamines?

... Tyler Durden?

Wow...That's scarey.  I hope he will be ok.

My cousin has seizures, but never bleeds unless she bites her tongue.

Look on the bright side. If he never had a seizure before, now he knows that they can happen to him, and he can get the right treatment. At a rifle range with a buddy beats the hell out of finding out that you're epileptic while doing 80 on the freeway.

that sucks, I hope the guy is alright

It was Pokemon that made the children "seize".  The Christian Nation then claimed it was demons causing the seizures to punish heathen children.  I've seen the episode, didn't make me seize.

Quoted: Quoted: I've heard you need to stuff something in their mouth to bite down on.   Like a piece of clothing, etc... Don't be picky.  Maybe the front of a shoe or something.... I've heard the same, but I also heard the opposite: that that is a myth and you're not supposed to do that. Can somebody clarify please?

You're not supposed to stuff anything in their mouth as many people who have seizures also vomit. You don't want to do anything to obstruct the outflow as they are more likely to choke on it.  They can bite down on the sides of their tongue but don't do serious damage.  One way to tell if someone is faking a seizure is if they bite the tip of their tongue; the tongue is retracted during a seizure and is the reason why the sides are bitten.
 

Epileptics do not remember having the seizure. Even though it looks horrible, the seizure itself is not painful and in fact can temporarily reduce pre-existing pain from, say, Cancer or something like that. It also is known to cause one to be able to retain more information after the seizure (think of it like defragging your computer).

Shock-therapy was actually really artificial triggering of epileptic seizures (with muscle relaxants to reduce violent thrashing).

Except for the person possibly injuring themselves during a seizure, the seizure itself is relatively harmless from all the research I've done on it.

I also have both a dog with epilespy as wel as a (human) cousin who suffers from it. Most epileptics only respond to a one or two groups of stimuli (chemical, electrical, light-sensitive, etc).

Quoted: Epileptics do not remember having the seizure. Even though it looks horrible, the seizure itself is not painful and in fact can temporarily reduce pre-existing pain from, say, Cancer or something like that. It also is known to cause one to be able to retain more information after the seizure (think of it like defragging your computer). Shock-therapy was actually really artificial triggering of epileptic seizures (with muscle relaxants to reduce violent thrashing). Except for the person possibly injuring themselves during a seizure, the seizure itself is relatively harmless from all the research I've done on it. I also have both a dog with epilespy as wel as a (human) cousin who suffers from it. Most epileptics only respond to a one or two groups of stimuli (chemical, electrical, light-sensitive, etc).

Thats very interresting...Could you perhaps educate us on the chemical and electrical stimuli?

Quoted: Epileptics do not remember having the seizure. Even though it looks horrible, the seizure itself is not painful and in fact can temporarily reduce pre-existing pain from, say, Cancer or something like that. It also is known to cause one to be able to retain more information after the seizure (think of it like defragging your computer).<snip>

That woulda been helpful before my test the other day.  I really don't want to see that test....

Quoted: There is no way in hell this guy doesnt have a history of siezures SGatr15

Well, he does now. This may have been his first. You really don't know. There is such a thing as adult onset. Happened to my mother. No seizure hx until she was in her mid sixties.

And the light may or may not have been the trigger. Again, everything here is just supposition.

Quoted: That reminds me of a story about some cartoon in Japan that caused a bunch of kids to have seizures.

It happens with video games too.  That's why they have warnings to that effect now.

And for the record, you do not have to be epileptic to have these kinds of seizures.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: Quoted: That reminds me of a story about some cartoon in Japan that caused a bunch of kids to have seizures.

This is the end all be all seizure test.  If you have light activated seizures that site will bring it out.

Send him flowers and Pokemon DVD in the hospital.

Quoted:  And, if at all possible, find something to wedge in the person's mouth to bite down on, so they don't bite their tongue.  Hopefully one of the ARFCOM Docs will stop in to clarify.....

No! its a great way to break teeth and fuck up the jaw/TMJ joint. A person may bite his tongue during a seizure, but shoving something in his mouth is more likely to cause injury.

He will probubly loose his drivers license.  After one year on meds (Depekote) and seizure free he can get it back. Sucks, I have a coworker out cuse he had one seizure. Cant drive a patrol car with no drivers license.

Quoted: Quoted: His buddy said that he hadn't slept for the past 24 hours... ... methamphetamines?

Ding, ding, ding, ding!

I think we have a winner.

Quoted: There is no way in hell this guy doesnt have a history of siezures SGatr15

You really can't say that. If he had a history he would have nou doubt felt it coming on and alerted some one.

People who have them often can feel right before they happen.

Quoted: Quoted: There is no way in hell this guy doesnt have a history of siezures SGatr15 You really can't say that. If he had a history he would have nou doubt felt it coming on and alerted some one. People who have them often can feel right before they happen.

some dogs can tell when their owner is about to have one.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: His buddy said that he hadn't slept for the past 24 hours... ... methamphetamines? Ding, ding, ding, ding! I think we have a winner.

EXACTLY.
Took the words right out of my head.

S.O.

Quoted: home.columbus.rr.com/miketrac/pictures/stupidpostspics/seizure.gif S.O.

WTF??  I was reading this thread and the next thing I know I'm on the floor with slobber all over the side of my face.  

Thanks I'll warn my wife not to look at page 2.    jackass.


My wife's epileptic. She "had" seizures since she was a baby. Hers were brough on by a reaction to the dip shots and developed a fever and some scar tissue.

10 years ago she was have 3 - 4 a day so she opted for the brain surgery. After the surgery she was episode free for 2 years and then they came back. 1 a day then 1 every few days. 1 a week to 1 every few months until a episode 5 years ago. She was AWAKE through the whole thing, She could talk, she cry'd and yelled in fear.

The surgery (her case is in the medical journals) has a 7 year recovery time. And sure enough that last one was a breakthru seizure. The brain burned out the final pathways that were conducting the short.



Edit: She posted on page 3.

Remember The Butterfly Effect? Maybe that's why he was bleeding.