www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55325-2004Sep27.html
requires registration but you can just go to www.drudgereport.com and link there.

"you have not right to tell me how to talk into my phone"

For Metro, a Case of Too-Free Speech

Police Defend Arrest Over Loud Cell Phone Call

By Lyndsey Layton

Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 28, 2004; Page A01  


    Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police.  
    The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone.          
                         
           Sakinah Aaron says she was speaking loudly on the phone but not cursing. (Juana Arias -- The Washington Post)
    Their verbal dispute quickly escalated, and Saoutis grabbed Aaron by the arm and pushed her to the ground. He handcuffed the 23-year-old woman, called for backup and took her to a cell where she was held for three hours before being released to her aunt. She was charged with two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace" and resisting arrest.  


    Those are the facts on which both sides agree.  
    They interpret the events of Sept. 9 very differently.  
    Transit Police and some Metro officials say Saoutis was protecting the peace by removing a woman who had overstepped the boundaries of civil behavior because she was loudly cursing into her phone.  

     They say that cell phones have become just another instrument of loutish behavior in the public space and that they are fighting a dramatic deterioration of manners in the transit system.  

    "We need better enforcement to allow people to know we are serious and want to maintain the high-quality level of the system," said Robert J. Smith, chairman of the Metro board, adding that "ranting youth" have become a plague on the subway. "This isn't Montana. We live in a very dense region, and people are on top of each other all the time."  

    Smith, who refuses to carry a cell phone, said he thinks Metro riders need to use the devices with care. "We wouldn't allow someone to come into the U.S. Capitol Rotunda and shout obscenities into a cell phone," he said.  
    But Aaron and some defenders of free speech say the Transit Police are the ones who overstepped boundaries by making a crime out of conversation and pushing a pregnant woman to her knees. The incident took place out of doors and not in the confines of a rail car or bus, they note.  




     And they point to a string of other incidents, including the July arrest of a 45-year-old woman for chewing a PayDay candy bar and the 2000 arrest of a 12-year-old girl for eating a french fry, that are earning the Transit Police a national reputation as an agency itching to lock up riders.  




    "Technically, the police officer is right, but the result is wrong," said D.C. Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1), who represents the city on the Metro board. "How do we prevent minor transgressions escalating into major problems? It's not what any of us want. We don't want pregnant women booked for loud cell phone conversations. We don't want 12-year-old girls in handcuffs for eating a single french fry. Whether it's training or guidance to our officers, we have to do something."  




     Johnny Barnes, executive director of the Washington area chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, called Aaron's arrest "troubling."  




    "There seems to be an unusual attention paid to activities of patrons," Barnes said. "One should be able to ride the Metro and exercise a range of rights without fear of intervention from Metro police."  




    Aaron, who lives in Silver Spring and works as a clerk at the Food and Drug Administration, said she was talking to her fiance on her cell phone as she walked toward the bus bay about 4:45 p.m. Sept. 9 to catch the Route C4 Metrobus.  




    "Our phone conversation had ended," she said. "I'm walking down the stairs and the transit cop said, 'You have to lower your voice, ma'am.' I said, 'You can't tell me how loud I can talk.' He said, 'I can arrest you,' and he grabbed my arm. I said, 'What are you doing? I'm pregnant! Oh, so you want to flex some muscle today?' He grabbed my hand, and we struggled."  




    Aaron acknowledged that she was loud on the phone but said she wasn't cursing and lobbed a profanity only after Saoutis grabbed her. After her release that night, Aaron went to Holy Cross Hospital and was treated in the emergency room for a bruise she said was a result of Saoutis's pushing her to the ground and placing his knee on her upper back.  




    Saoutis, who is about to complete his first year on the job with the Transit Police, was not available for an interview yesterday, according to Deputy Chief Tim Gronau.  




    Gronau said his officer properly enforced the law and arrested Aaron because it was clear she wasn't taking his warning seriously.  




     "We're not either pro or negative cell phones," he said. "The issue is [that] the volume of her conversation, coupled with the language, is not conducive to socially accepted standards of behavior."  
                                       

 
   

It says I have to register.  Could you or someone print the article?  It sounds interesting.  Thanks.

Quoted: It says I have to register.  Could you or someone print the article?  It sounds interesting.  Thanks.

done...also on www.drudgereport.com

get those cell phone terrorists! it's for the children!

Another wanna be commando cop. Beating up pregnant women, wow how brave.

What, no shot dog?

I am so sick of listening to assholes yelling in to cell phones while either ignoring everyone around them or leering at bystanders, savoring the attention that their personal drama has attracted, that I have a hard time getting wound up about this arrest. I was in an airport terminal once waiting for a boarding call and some junior management type was bellowing so loudly into his cell phone that from across the concourse, I could not avoid hearing enough to identify the other party and the subject of the conversation. I finally tapped the guy on the shoulder and said "Tell Bob that he has to meet quota next month and that you have to hang up because everybody on Concourse B thinks you're an inconsiderate jackass."

It is annoying when people speak loudly into their cell phones on the Metro. I've cast a glare or two myself. I don't like the idea of a woman being handcuffed over it. A saint she is not, but she doesn't desrve this kind of treatment.  Cops in that area are drunk with power. I am very pro LEO. I'd like to be one myself if my present physical limitaions didn't prevent it.  DC and Maryland are police states.  It's not the fault of the officers, it's the politicians and activist groups that put them in power.

Quoted: It is annoying when people speak loudly into their cell phones on the Metro. I've cast a glare or two myself. I don't like the idea of a woman being handcuffed over it. A saint she is not, but she doesn't desrve this kind of treatment.  Cops in that area are drunk with power. I am very pro LEO. I'd like to be one myself if my present physical limitaions didn't prevent it.  DC and Maryland are police states.  It's not the fault of the officers, it's the politicians and activist groups that put them in power.

We are of like minds, but what is to be done? I don't want to listen to some tramp squealing about the baby could have been conceived when she was with Johnny, but she lives with Ray now, or some pinhead yacking about TSR Reports, or what have you. They have no right to inflict that crap on the rest of us. I honestly don't know what's to be done. If somebody puts forth the effort to eavesdrop on my cell calls, they'll hear something like "How 'bout lunch?". . . "OK. See you there in 10 minutes." I am no saint, but I have a little respect for people around me. If arresting the odd pregnant shrew will shut these bastards up, I think I can live with it.

I've been in the BOOKSTORE many times, and these fucks not only are loud (and speak in a manner which lets me know that not only do they want to be heard, they want to appear important) but they do fucking laps around the bookstore while talking.  Inconsiderate asswipes.

Quoted: Quoted: It is annoying when people speak loudly into their cell phones on the Metro. I've cast a glare or two myself. I don't like the idea of a woman being handcuffed over it. A saint she is not, but she doesn't desrve this kind of treatment.  Cops in that area are drunk with power. I am very pro LEO. I'd like to be one myself if my present physical limitaions didn't prevent it.  DC and Maryland are police states.  It's not the fault of the officers, it's the politicians and activist groups that put them in power. We are of like minds, but what is to be done? I don't want to listen to some tramp squealing about the baby could have been conceived when she was with Johnny, but she lives with Ray now, or some pinhead yacking about TSR Reports, or what have you. They have no right to inflict that crap on the rest of us. I honestly don't know what's to be done. If somebody puts forth the effort to eavesdrop on my cell calls, they'll hear something like "How 'bout lunch?". . . "OK. See you there in 10 minutes." I am no saint, but I have a little respect for people around me. If arresting the odd pregnant shrew will shut these bastards up, I think I can live with it.

One fix is to be an even bigger asshole-grab your cell phone and have a highly personal pretend conversation (hemorrhoids or herpes should both work) at more volume than the jackass around you-they might get the message.

I hate cell phones and most of their owners.

what, no taser?

she committed the worst crime of all: Pissing off a cop.

No matter how much anyone is disgusted with that type of behavior check your thinking before you cast your vote.

If an arrest can be made for that type of "disturbance" what other "breaches of the peace" can be conjured up?  Laughter?  Any noise over a certain decible?  How about the content of the conversation?  How about a slippery slope?

I don't care much for inconsiderate people but they don't deserve governmental interference because I'm bothered by something.  Nor should I be harrassed for something they might not like.  How about the noise disturbance from a gun range?  A poor old anti-gun couple on a quiet Sunday drive is bothered by the report of my .308 - should they have the right to complain and have us arrested?

This is sad.  I probably would never like this woman but I would stick up for her rights.  That would also be sticking up for my rights.  Don't silence people.

I hear alot of people complain about cell phone users.

If you don't like hearing people talk on their phones, in public, then stay out of public.

You have no right to hear nothing but hushed voices.

Freedom takes another hit.

Annoying? Yes. Against the law? No.

Quoted: I hear alot of people complain about cell phone users. If you don't like hearing people talk on their phones, in public, then stay out of public. You have no right to hear nothing but hushed voices. Freedom takes another hit. Annoying? Yes. Against the law? No.

So, if you don't want to hear me screeching through a bullhorn about the joy of fucking little boys in the ass, you should stay home?  If you don't want me yelling in your ear about Raellian creation theory, you should stay off the bus? If you don't want me yelling in your face about my mother's hemorrhoid surgery, you should stay out of the bank lobby? You don't like the sound of my M-80s going off, keep your ass out of the city park?

Sorry, pal, people do have the right to expect that others will keep their private business private, and that they won't have to listen to other people making displays of their personal affairs. The deal is, if you can't avoid making other citizens unwilling witnesses to your trashy (or soulless) drama, YOU stay home or STFU. Public places are not free-fire zones for the Springer moments endured by the stupid among us.

Her pregnancy is as irrelevant as her skin tone, religion or gender. If the pregnant card is her trump card I'm betting shes very guilty.

Did you expect the officer to back down? She did wrong and was taken in for it. No JBT about it.

Quoted: Did you expect the officer to back down? She did wrong and was taken in for it. No JBT about it.

Officer: You are under arrest.
Bitch: No you dit ent!
Officer: I'm not kidding you're under arrest.
Bitch: Nuh Uh! Cants you see I'm pregnant!?
Officer: Oh, you're pregnant, the law doesnt apply to you. you're free to go.

Quoted: Quoted: I hear alot of people complain about cell phone users. If you don't like hearing people talk on their phones, in public, then stay out of public. You have no right to hear nothing but hushed voices. Freedom takes another hit. Annoying? Yes. Against the law? No. So, if you don't want to hear me screeching through a bullhorn about the joy of fucking little boys in the ass, you should stay home?  If you don't want me yelling in your ear about Raellian creation theory, you should stay off the bus? If you don't want me yelling in your face about my mother's hemorrhoid surgery, you should stay out of the bank lobby? You don't like the sound of my M-80s going off, keep your ass out of the city park? Sorry, pal, people do have the right to expect that others will keep their private business private, and that they won't have to listen to other people making displays of their personal affairs. The deal is, if you can't avoid making other citizens unwilling witnesses to your trashy (or soulless) drama, YOU stay home or STFU. Public places are not free-fire zones for the Springer moments endured by the stupid among us.

Alrighty then! Umm, if you REALLY want to screech through a bullhorn about the joy of fucking little boys, well, *cough* alrighty then! *LMFAO* As entertaining as your post is, I don't think that is the same thing as a loud pregnant woman on her cell phone.

The cop went WAY overboard, period. If the cop had man handled YOUR wife like that, I'm betting you'd be hunting him down.

Quoted: Quoted: Did you expect the officer to back down? She did wrong and was taken in for it. No JBT about it. Officer: You are under arrest. Bitch: No you dit ent! Officer: I'm not kidding you're under arrest. Bitch: Nuh Uh! Cants you see I'm pregnant!? Officer: Oh, you're pregnant, the law doesnt apply to you. you're free to go.

You're being rediculous here. The issue is not that she was pregnant, the issue was that she was manhandled to the ground. It's not THAT hard to wristlock a MAN to cuff, what kind of pussy needs to knock a pregnant chick to the ground like a sissy drama queen to effect an arrest of a woman. What's funny here is that if a man knocks his ol' lady around, he's a son of a bitch, if a COP knocks a woman aroind, he's a fucking hero.

Edited because I type like shit.

If he was THAT weak where he couldn't handle 1 vicious phone weilding pregnant chick, he could have waited for his backup to arrive and they could have easily got ahold of one of her arms, spun her around, handcuffed her and marched her merrily to jail.

What this cop did was exactly right.  Everyone speaking loudly, honking horns, listening to the radio, watching little tvs, and especially anyone who allows their baby to cry in the presence of a cop should go to jail.

Officer:  "Respect my Authorit-ay!!!"  "You are under arrest for resisting arrest!!!"

Oh yea, and FLAL1A, I found your post really annoyed me and I think you should be arrested for it.

Really torn about this one.

On the one hand there are too many fucking asstards that think that they are the only person on the planet when they pickup a cell phone.  Me, I like to find a quiet corner and put on the headset.  What I have to say is for the person on the phone, not someone 20 feet away from me.

On the other hand I do think the cop may have overreacted a tad, but I can also see some self-centered bitch trying to pull shit on him.  The key is this:

The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone.

The officer made a simple request (one that could have been made by ANYONE) and she pulled the "Fuck off, I'm the center of the universe" shit.

Many people have no manners and no consideration for ANYONE execpt themselves and that leads to them inserting their foot-in-mouth... which sometimes leads to someone else inserting foot-in-ass.  

wtf???  

You all piss and moan about cell phone lusers and then when somebody does what you have been praying for you f'g complain.    I guess it's ok for folks to yell and scream and litter and tag  and you as a taxpayer are glad to see your property being misused because you all cry whn somebody that is getting paid to keep it the way YOU want it to be.

You guys are a bunch of crybabies, you complain and complain about how rotten things are getting and then complain even more when somebody does something about it.  

"Why I told that jackoff in the theatre that if he doesn't turn his cellphone of I'ld kill him and all his kids,"  He f'g ignored me, why I woulda"  and now when somebody does something
{high wussy voice]  oh mi gawd a jbt took down a cell phone abuser help help help[/high wussy voice]

"I was on the Metro in Washington and all the locals wink wink nod nod were disgusting.  They were yelling aand xxx and xxx.  Look at the hair does  talking lowd bitch bitch bitch"  oh a jbt arrested a poor defenceless women  You know the same kind I was making fun of and complaining about wink wink nod nod.

I wondered how long it would take some of the resident ACLU types before they came on to bemoan the police again.

Quoted: "Cell Yell" is annoying but I don't think it's worth collaring the person for, maybe at most a Disorderly Conduct summons but even that I'd have a hard time writing. I think I would have just asked the lady to step outside...

I thought the article said she WAS outdoors

I think they both suck.

Who the hell goes to the ER to get treated for a bruise?  Is there even a treatment for a goddamn bruise?

Quoted: So, if you don't want to hear me screeching through a bullhorn about the joy of fucking little boys in the ass, you should stay home?  If you don't want me yelling in your ear about Raellian creation theory, you should stay off the bus? If you don't want me yelling in your face about my mother's hemorrhoid surgery, you should stay out of the bank lobby? You don't like the sound of my M-80s going off, keep your ass out of the city park?

You're such a lawyer dude. First lets look at your statement. I didn't hear any mention of a bull horn in the story, not the discussion of illegal activites. (pedophilia) I didn't hear about anyone yelling directly into someones ear or face. Firewroks are legislated in most places. You just cited a slew of activities that IN NO WAY relate to the story. So they're not even close to the same. It's a pregnant lady on a cell phone dude. If your wife was pregnant (or not for the matter) and she was being "rude" I guess you'd rally for the cops right to push her down? Get real dude. We get your point but the comparisons and drama are overkill.

Quoted: Quoted: So, if you don't want to hear me screeching through a bullhorn about the joy of fucking little boys in the ass, you should stay home?  If you don't want me yelling in your ear about Raellian creation theory, you should stay off the bus? If you don't want me yelling in your face about my mother's hemorrhoid surgery, you should stay out of the bank lobby? You don't like the sound of my M-80s going off, keep your ass out of the city park? You're such a lawyer dude. First lets look at your statement. I didn't hear any mention of a bull horn in the story, not the discussion of illegal activites. (pedophilia) I didn't hear about anyone yelling directly into someones ear or face. Firewroks are legislated in most places. You just cited a slew of activities that IN NO WAY relate to the story. So they're not even close to the same. It's a pregnant lady on a cell phone dude. If your wife was pregnant (or not for the matter) and she was being "rude" I guess you'd rally for the cops right to push her down? Get real dude. We get your point but the comparisons and drama are overkill.

+1.

FLAL1A, if you're out shooting your guns, and they scare the neighbors....you're being disrespectful, rude and intimidating. I'd hope some cop ass rapes you for that. How dare you interfere with your neighbor's happiness. What if children are harmed by your gun's noises or the sight of them? Are you an insensitive animal or something?

Unless someone is breaking a law, forcibly harming you or interfering with your individual liberties by their speech in your proximity in a public place, get up and move your uptight ass somewhere else. You have no right not to be annoyed, put out or angry. You have no right to demand not to hear others in public. You celebrate this woman being put down, which makes you worse than the annoying behavior she was exhibiting.

A "right" to not be annoyed by people talking on a cell phone about personal items?

Some people really need to read the ENTIRE Constitution.  What pisses me off (even more than JBT's) are people who *think* that there are a whole bunch of "rights" like this.  "I have a right to a home, a right to a job, a right to 'free-to-me' health care, a right to NOT be offended..."

This loud ass lady is going to be rich soon.  

Here is her winnings scale:(based on race)

lady (white) cop(white)  $250,000
lady (white) cop(black)  $150,000
lady (black) cop(black)   $500,000
lady (black) cop(white)  $50,000,000

Then end.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Cell Yell" is annoying but I don't think it's worth collaring the person for, maybe at most a Disorderly Conduct summons but even that I'd have a hard time writing. I think I would have just asked the lady to step outside... I thought the article said she WAS outdoors "Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone"

I'm not sure how it is at Wheaton station, but other Metro stations have the bus area outside the train station, in the open air, with a few semiopen shelters for cold, windy, or rainy days. Actually, if Wheaton station is underground, she'd have a hard time talking to anybody anyway.

Let me ask you this, people. If I'm holding a conversation with a person who is near me, but my voice is loud (not shouting, but louder than most conversational voices) because I have a loud voice, should a cop arrest me for disturbing the peace or some such BS? Should people who drive around with their windows open on a highway playing music of some sort at a level audible to other people be tackled and cuffed?

I am no longer surprised when cops show up defending others cops when they violate freedom.

Losers

You guys are missing the whole crux of the problem. If Motorola hadn't made that cell phone the lady wouldn't have been talking too loud on it and the officer wouldn't have had to take her down because of it. They are both the victims here and Motorola is the culprit! Motorola should pay each victim $10 mil for pain, suffering and damages.

Quoted: You guys are missing the whole crux of the problem. If Motorola hadn't made that cell phone the lady wouldn't have been talking too loud on it and the officer wouldn't have had to take her down because of it. They are both the victims here and Motorola is the culprit! Motorola should pay each victim $10 mil for pain, suffering and damages.

Yeah- that's the ticket! Stick it to the Man!

A pox on her house. The public seem to be getting meaner, more low class and more inconsiderate every day.
Why do people have to yell into their cell phones in public?
Why do people feel they HAVE to let their dogs off the leash when they take them out of the yard? Why do they let their dogs shit wherever, exc. their own yard?
Why do people STILL feed the damned birds and ducks at the park, even when it's bad for them and us to do it, and we all know it?
Why do people feel a monument or historic place is an ideal place to play frisbee, spray paint their names or dump french fries on?
Why do people change their kids' disposable diapers and dump them on the streets?

WTF is up with people that they'd even think to do this stuff in the first place?

Can't people regulate their own behavior?

Whatever happened to manners and courtesy?

When I was growing up, manners and courtesy showed that you cared about yourself enough to care about the feelings of others. the feeling is mutually expected. If everyone is considerate, then life is better and easier on a daily basis. No amount of fines or punishment can change somebody who is low-class in his soul.

As for the cop, he probably feels like a lot of LEOs, that society is going to hell in a handbasket and that he and his brethren are the last line of defense against a decaying world of morons. And, he's enforcing policy.

I agree with Wave though, but Wave, if it had been you there, what would you have done if the woman in question told you to shove off, esp. if others are around? Shrug, roll your eyes and walk away? What does that encourage her peers to do?

Been there,  done that. The arrest was applauded by the onlookers.

The charge was Disorderly Conduct/Language./Offensive Gesture.

And if she told you that you have no right to tell her where to go?
I think what a lot of you are missing is her response to the officers request.  He asked her to tone it down, she pretty much told him to f*** off.

Quoted: "Cell Yell" is annoying but I don't think it's worth collaring the person for, maybe at most a Disorderly Conduct summons but even that I'd have a hard time writing. I think I would have just asked the lady to step outside...

I live in the DC area and I love the Metro police!  

GunLvr

Quoted: "Cell Yell" is annoying but I don't think it's worth collaring the person for, maybe at most a Disorderly Conduct summons but even that I'd have a hard time writing. I think I would have just asked the lady to step outside...

From the article it appears thats pretty much what he tried. He asked her to quiet down, she refused, so he told her she was under arrest/getting a citation, at which point she violently resisted. You dont "ask" a person to step outside unless your willing, and have the legal authority, to make the person follow through.

Quoted: Quoted: And if she told you that you have no right to tell her where to go? I think what a lot of you are missing is her response to the officers request.  He asked her to tone it down, she pretty much told him to f*** off. 1776 is going to love this response... Unfortunately she'll have to learn a thing or two about respect. It's easy to be courteous while working in uniform but if you're showing up with a "stick it to the man" attitude...let's play the game shall we? In NYC - here's your "Failure to comply with a Lawful Order" summons, have a nice day, want to kick it up a notch? how about a "Disorderly Conduct" summons - see you in court, lose a day at work to answer that summons and pay the fine, keep going? I can turn that DisCon summons into a "DisCon arrest" and we'll spend the next 10+ hours together as I process that arrest on overtime pay, then you'll spend the next several hours in NY's overcrowded Central Booking waiting to see a judge. Basically, you'll get what you deserve. I ask you politely and professionally to step away from an area because you're affecting the "quality of life" of others around you simply do it. Is it that hard? If you want to be a prick you'll be treated like one.

Oh,  boy.

Quoted: [ You're such a lawyer dude. First lets look at your statement. I didn't hear any mention of a bull horn in the story, not the discussion of illegal activites. (pedophilia) I didn't hear about anyone yelling directly into someones ear or face. Firewroks are legislated in most places. You just cited a slew of activities that IN NO WAY relate to the story. So they're not even close to the same. It's a pregnant lady on a cell phone dude. If your wife was pregnant (or not for the matter) and she was being "rude" I guess you'd rally for the cops right to push her down? Get real dude. We get your point but the comparisons and drama are overkill.

You're right.

My point is that I can't stand people inflicting themselves on others - thumping rap at red lights (or down the street in front of my house at 10 PM), shrieking at each down the block, et c. Too bad it was a pregnant woman, but I'm glad to see a selfish lout paying for it.

Its for reasons like these that I have a "love-hate" relationship with the ACLU.

She was OUTSIDE talking on her own cell phone.

The officer HAD NO RIGHT to interfere UNLESS she was BREAKING THE LAW.

Is talking loudly on a cell phone against the law?

If it is, God help us.

Some of you people love to tout your stance for FREEDOM and then say HOORAY when freedoms are trampled.

If you want to live in a FREE SOCIETY you just have to put up with things like people talking loudly on their cell phones.

A lot of you guys don't' love freedom,  you love your own opinions.