"You are more likely to die or be injured with a gun in the home"

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - "You are more likely to die or be injured with a gun in the home"

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:03:05 AM EDT

I was coming back from my first airsoft match with some new friends and the topic of real guns came up. One of the college-aged kids riding next to me in the car said the above quote. He told me that I had a common misconception about guns. He says he is a sociology major, bla blah blah.

I think his point is stupid, because of course you are more likely (statistically) to be injured by a gun if you have one compared to if you don't (because it's impossible to be injured by your gun if you don't even have one in the first place). I don't think he understood my point at all. I also told him that he was the one with the common misconception.

Oh yea, he also said he doesn't feel the need to have a gun for protection. I wish I would have stomped on this kid verbally, but I guess I'm just a nice guy so all I did was roll my eyes inside my head.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:05:56 AM EDT

[#1]

It's true! I was working on a piece of machinery and was tightening a bolt when the wrench slipped and I bashed my knuckle on a piece of steel. Hurt like a mo-fo and I bled all over the place. I had a gun in the house at the time.......

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:07:10 AM EDT

[#2]

<-- still living after 21 years of guns in the home

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:07:27 AM EDT

[#3]

We had a thread about this not too long ago. Someone want to dig it up?

Anyway, the gist of it is, is that the whole "you're more likely to be killed by a gun in your house" argument is based on a study done by a blatantly anti-gun guy and it has been disproved thoroughly. Basically what he did is include in his study ANY gun in the house, even if it was brought INTO the house by the criminal and the owner didn't own a gun. If you take away the people injured by the perp's guns and only include shootings in which the victim had their own gun used against them then the whole argument falls apart.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:10:04 AM EDT

[#4]

Is he aware that he is more likely to put his eye out if he owns airsoft? Tell him that next time you play, he can just give you his airsoft since he doesn't feel the need for it.

Thanks, now I have that quote, "I have always relied on the kindness of strangers." quote in my head. Except it's morphed into, "I've always relied on the kindness of home invading criminals."

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:10:10 AM EDT

[#5]

You are more likely to die or be injured in an automobile accident if you travel by car, too.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:12:06 AM EDT

[#6]

Found the thread. Here you go:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=275735

The particular study I was talking about:

From the GOA Fact Sheet:

Fact: A study claiming "guns more likely to kill you than help you" is a total fraud. Not surprisingly, the figure claiming one is three times more likely to be killed by one’s own gun is a total lie. The author of this study, Dr. Arthur Kellerman, refused to release the data behind his conclusions for years.148 Subsequently available evidence shows why Kellerman stonewalled for so long:

* Researcher Don Kates reveals that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims [in Kellerman’s study] were killed using guns not kept in the victim’s home." In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim’s household."149

* In retrospect, Kates found, it was not the ownership of firearms that put these victims at high risk. Rather, it was the victim’s "high-risk life-styles [such as criminal associations] that caused them to own guns at higher rates than the members of the supposedly comparable control group."

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:13:03 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I was coming back from my first airsoft match with some new friends and the topic of real guns came up. One of the college-aged kids riding next to me in the car said the above quote. He told me that I had a common misconception about guns. He says he is a sociology major, bla blah blah.

I think his point is stupid, because of course you are more likely (statistically) to be injured by a gun if you have one compared to if you don't (because it's impossible to be injured by your gun if you don't even have one in the first place). I don't think he understood my point at all. I also told him that he was the one with the common misconception.

Oh yea, he also said he doesn't feel the need to have a gun for protection. I wish I would have stomped on this kid verbally, but I guess I'm just a nice guy so all I did was roll my eyes inside my head.

Theres your problem.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:13:18 AM EDT

[#8]

Look at accidental death numbers, and you will find that firearms are one of the LEAST likely ways to be killed in the home. Only poisonings are less common. The OTHER category claims more lives than firearms do.

Your friend is a sociology major. But all that means is that he is repeating some tripe that his commie PHD prof spewed in class one day, while his prof doesn't know anything about the topic that he didn't read from some Brady-ite.

Ignorance multiplies and has lots of company.

Truth, on the other hand, is always a lonely persuit.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:13:22 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I was coming back from my first airsoft match with some new friends and the topic of real guns came up. .

I stopped right there.....

Sgatr15

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:13:29 AM EDT

[#10]

I've had guns in my home for almost 40 years and I gotta say I've hurt myself with a hammer several times but not once w/any of my weapons. Ipso facto, ban hammers!!!

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:15:14 AM EDT

[#11]

Here's a question for you.

Do you have any real guns?

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:15:48 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Here's a question for you.

Do you have any real guns?

DO YOU?

SGtar15

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:16:01 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I've had guns in my home for almost 40 years and I gotta say I've hurt myself with a hammer several times but not once w/any of my weapons. Ipso facto, ban hammers!!!

Ban hammers! Do it for the children!

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:17:12 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's a question for you.

Do you have any real guns?

DO YOU?

SGtar15

Mossberg Maverick 88 and a Magtech 7022 which I just put a bi-pod on lastnight.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:17:52 AM EDT

[#15]

Well, I did pinch my finger when collapsing my new stock on my AR the other day.....am I now a statistic?

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:19:29 AM EDT

[#16]

While it is cerainly his right not to own a gun, he is of course one of those people who buy into spurious arguments. It is also true that people who own and ride motorcycles are more likely to be injured in a motorcycle accident than people who don't. Likewise people who swim in the ocean are more likely to drown than people who live in the desert. In short, what he said is true. It however does nothing to further any argument other than to prove the obvious.

Posted: 9/27/2004 8:45:02 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
It's true! I was working on a piece of machinery and was tightening a bolt when the wrench slipped and I bashed my knuckle on a piece of steel. Hurt like a mo-fo and I bled all over the place. I had a gun in the house at the time.......

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:09:41 AM EDT

[#18]

From Dr. Lott as reprinted in this month's Imprimis.

Debunking the Myth of Accidental Shootings

A final area strongly affected by the media's anti-gun bias is that of accidental shootings. When it comes to this topic, reporters are eager to write about guns. Many of us have seen the public service ads showing the voices or pictures of children between the ages of four and eight, which imply that there is an epidemic of accidental deaths of these young children.

Data I have collected show that accidental shooters overwhelmingly are adults with long histories of arrests for violent crimes, alcoholism, suspended or revoked driver's licenses and involvement in car crashes. Meanwhile, the annual number of accidental gun deaths involving children under ten - most of these being cases where someone older shoots the child - is consistently a single digit number. It is a kind of media archetype story to report on "naturally curious" children shooting themselves or other children - though in the five years from 1997 to 2001 the entire United States averaged only ten cases a year where a child under ten accidentally shot himself or another child.

In contrast, in 2001 bicycles were much more likely to result in accidental deaths than guns. Fully 93 children under the age of ten drowned accidentally in bathtubs. Thirty-six children under five drowned in buckets in 1998. Yet few reporters crusade against buckets or bathtubs.

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:14:12 AM EDT

[#19]

One of my guns almost shot me this morning.

I woke up and it was there waiting to ambush me by the side of my bed. Fortunately, I was able to roll out on the other side before the rounds started flying. I double-rolled left and then threw myself on the mag release before it squeezed off anymore shots.

I'm gonna have to get a trigger lock for that thing. They sure are dangerous.

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:15:01 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
You are more likely to die or be injured in an automobile accident if you travel by car, too.

Actually, you're more likely to be killed by a doctor in a "medical-misadventure" than your gun.

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:19:57 AM EDT

[#21]

You are most likely to be shot when in the presence of a firearm.

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:30:48 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I was coming back from my first airsoft match with some new friends and the topic of real guns came up. One of the college-aged kids riding next to me in the car said the above quote. He told me that I had a common misconception about guns. He says he is a sociology major, bla blah blah.

He also affirmed a common perception. College kids don't know jack shit!

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:32:52 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I was coming back from my first airsoft match with some new friends and the topic of real guns came up. One of the college-aged kids riding next to me in the car said the above quote. He told me that I had a common misconception about guns. He says he is a sociology major, bla blah blah.

He also affirmed a common perception. College kids don't know jack shit!

The younger generation has been pretty much brain-washed that guns are bad, and they will jump and kill you given a chance.

Posted: 9/27/2004 9:54:38 AM EDT

[#24]

First off - the majority of all violence occurs in the home, and the majority of all violent acts committed against a person are perpetrated by someone they know or are related to. The same thing can be said for acts of violence committed with knives (police are trained to move domestic disturbances away from the kitchen at all costs) to baseball bats, croquet mallets, and the now outlawed lawn darts.

Secondly - what would you expect from a person that plays airsoft? You people are annoying as shit – too afraid to own real guns (because they can’t trust themselves) or worried about upsetting your mommies.

I wish you'd stay off the board - but I know that ain't going to happen - so in the future, please do us all a favor: Before you hit the submit button, scan your thread for the words: "airsoft", "paintball", or "pwn3d" - and if you find any of those words in your post, take it here.

Posted: 9/27/2004 10:04:03 AM EDT

[#25]

Dolomite wrote:

Secondly - what would you expect from a person that plays airsoft? You people are annoying as shit – too afraid to own real guns (because they can’t trust themselves) or worried about upsetting your mommies.

I wish you'd stay off the board - but I know that ain't going to happen - so in the future, please do us all a favor: Before you hit the submit button, scan your thread for the words: "airsoft", "paintball", or "pwn3d" - and if you find any of those words in your post, take it here.

Was this directed at me? If so, then let me remind you that you don't know anything about me at all. Thanks.

Posted: 9/27/2004 10:18:15 AM EDT

[#26]

I know you’re an airsoft ranger incapable of debunking one of the most common myths about firearms ownership spooged out over the last thirty years.

What else am I missing? There’s someone in your family that's a cop/in the army? And they could kick my ass in a real fight? Well?

Posted: 9/27/2004 10:28:23 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I know you’re an airsoft ranger incapable of debunking one of the most common myths about firearms ownership spooged out over the last thirty years.

How do you know that I'm an "airsoft ranger" -- whatever that means?

How do you know that I am "incapable of debunking...."?

Go mouth off against someone that deserves it, and leave me be. Thanks.

Posted: 9/27/2004 10:41:09 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
He says he is a sociology major.

Proof that college makes you ignorant.

Posted: 9/27/2004 10:41:56 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
...what would you expect from a person that plays airsoft? You people are annoying as shit – too afraid to own real guns (because they can’t trust themselves) or worried about upsetting your mommies.

I wish you'd stay off the board - but I know that ain't going to happen - so in the future, please do us all a favor: Before you hit the submit button, scan your thread for the words: "airsoft", "paintball", or "pwn3d" - and if you find any of those words in your post, take it here.

+1

Fucking jack-off bullshit. Airsoft is for Star Trek geeks and DnD nerds. Where's the picture of that "My Best Friend is Giving Me and M16" homo?

Posted: 10/10/2004 7:41:42 AM EDT

[#30]

still havent answered my question... hmmm...

Posted: 10/10/2004 7:49:29 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Airsoft is for Star Trek geeks and DnD nerds.

" I want to cast Magic Missle!!"

Posted: 10/10/2004 7:51:50 AM EDT

[#32]

Print up some signs for him. "This home has no firearms, as they are more likely to kill you, if you have one in the house."

Ask him to post them in the yard, and on the doors and windows.

Then, offer him another sign; "This home protected by Smith & Wesson Policy #.357."

Assuming he is not absolutely crazy (that may be a big assumption for a soc. major) once he admits he'd prefer the S&W sign, explain that the gun is the deterent. It will statistically have a likelihood of never being used, or even brandished. It is an equalizer. Ask him if he'd show up to a drag race in a Chevy metro, to race a Corvette? Using the same logic of preparedness, would he "show up" at a home invasion or robbery without a firearm?

As far as statistics go, aren't the odds of being robbed 1 in 2, or some high odd close to that?
And the odds of being injured with a firearm are 1 in 10,000 or something?
Shouldn't need a socialogy major to figure out which one is more dangerous.

Posted: 10/10/2004 7:56:05 AM EDT

[#33]

Can someone help find the odds of:

1. being injured or killed, etc... by a firearm in your house?
2. being injured or raped or killed, etc... in a home invasion?

I bet #2 is much more likely.

Posted: 10/10/2004 8:08:09 AM EDT

[#34]

The infamous Kellerman study, debunked more times than a passed out Britney lol.

www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/rkba/kellerman.htm

Posted: 10/10/2004 8:08:23 AM EDT

[#35]

What opened my eyes is when I watched an assualt taking place in my apartment complex about 20 years ago when I lived in San Diego. I called in the attack as did a half a dozen of my neighbors and we watched one guy chasing another with a baseball bat with nails driven though it. The second guy was faster thank God because in the 20 minutes it took the police to finally respond the guy would have been beaten down, cut into hamburger, cooked, and eaten - the cops would have gotten there about the time the dishes were to be dried.

In most violent attacks there are no nearby witnesses to call the police. The assault is going to be over in seconds and on their best night the police won't be there for three or more minutes. If you live outside the population centers your response time can be 20 or more minutes. The police do the best they can deterring crime and tracking down criminals after the crime has taken place. When someone does get shot the gun owner is more likely to shoot the correct bad guy then the police.

I have had more than a few guns locked in my safe for more than a few years and none of them have injured me ... unless you count a scope whack by a hard recoiling .30-06

I have used my firearms four times for protection that I recall. I never had to raise the weapon to get the attention of the criminal/neighbor I was confronting.

Posted: 10/10/2004 8:28:08 AM EDT

[#36]

Your more likely to be hit by a car outside.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - "You are more likely to die or be injured with a gun in the home"

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