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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:37:09 AM EDT
[#1]
What I miss?
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:37:15 AM EDT
[#2]
You mean, The Coalition?
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:37:26 AM EDT
[#3]
Tag.
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:37:49 AM EDT
[#4]
probably the site sponsers.
or, possibly the .gov the labeling under the patriot act could be a factor (tin foil hat is on tight) TXL |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:38:06 AM EDT
[#5]
buncha punk ass biatches, let me at em
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:40:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:41:12 AM EDT
[#7]
He implied that he had been subpoenaed under the Patriot Act for information. If that's not what it is, if it's private citizens or groups attacking Arfcom, I say unleash the dogs of war - goatboy himself said "Look what these people can do when they're pissed off."
Goatboy, it might be time to lift this veil of secrecy that arf has operated under for so long. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:43:44 AM EDT
[#8]
If you don't know what QuietShootr is talking about, read Goatboy's post at the bottom of this page.
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:44:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Could this relate to Rebel_Gray/Ryan Anderson, the traitor?
[emily latella]Nevermind.[/emily latella] (read Goatboy's post re: "dangerous" comments and topics on arfcom). |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:47:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Tag. I feel like a mushroom at this point. Would love to understand what is happening.
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:47:33 AM EDT
[#11]
I was curious as well at what he meant by that statement.
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:50:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Id like to know myself. Since this place has taken on Corporate Sponsorship it seems that we can no longer question the quality of any of the sponsors products. Thank goodness Colt aint one of the sponsors or this place would have been shut down a long time ago.
Or perhaps Colt is trying to shut this place down. Lets change the name of this site to Blackrifles.com, ditch the Sponsorship and be able to call a spade a spade, and in GD speak freely about what is going on in the world. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:51:25 AM EDT
[#13]
From GoatBoy in the other thread:
There are certain things which will get a place shut down and with all the AWB anger from liberals, they've taken shots at us and won a few minor battles the past few weeks which I have had to deal with. Posts regarding the killing of innocents or the wide spread slaughter of a religion can't be allowed on the site without risking its future. If we were very small it wouldn't be much of a risk, but in our current state we draw way too much attention from our enemies and those with the power to shut us down. WTF? |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:52:00 AM EDT
[#14]
That's what I find very worrisome. We're (gun owners) supposed to be freedom's vanguard, and we're quaking in our boots because someone doesn't like what we say? Sell your guns, you don't have the balls to use them anyway. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:52:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Dude...do the word "covert" mean anything to you? Learn it...live it.....some things are best left comunicated under the wire. Sgatr15 |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:52:38 AM EDT
[#16]
I see clearly now that I read Goatboy's post. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:52:45 AM EDT
[#17]
I see what he's talking about, and GB is right. It's a problem big bloggers like Charles Johnson at littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog have. The people who comment after all the stories he links to tend to be a little.........extreme. It has the effect of the people Johnson criticizes, such as terror enablers like CAIR, to say "Look at our critics! They're racisst! They're Haters! You can't trust anything they say!"
GB is afraid anti gunners would use outrageous comments on his site to discredit gunowners, or imply it's dangerous to let people have guns because they have extremely strident opinions that call for the deaths of people based on their religion. He's afraid of instead of being an example of responsible ownership, what's said on arfkom could become a LIABILITY OR JUSTIFICCATION to circumscribe gun ownership rights. I think he's completely on base and right on with that. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:54:32 AM EDT
[#18]
For the love... I'm ready to roll up my sleaves. Whose with me? This site is way too important to way too many people including myself to allow revokation of our 1st amendment rights. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:55:46 AM EDT
[#19]
1st amendment doesn't apply here. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:55:55 AM EDT
[#20]
So what you're saying is that we can't say what we think because PEOPLE WHO HATE US ANYWAY will use those words against us?  Let's stay on track here. I want to know what attacks, and from what quarter, we're talking about here. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:56:21 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:58:02 AM EDT
[#22]
+1 We are the largest gun site on the net. we have to realize that we are used to set the profile of a standard american gun owner. We see in the news about wackos associated with "extremeist sites." Do we want to be such a site? I think not. it would cause too much trouble and undermine all that we have worked together to accomplish. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:58:15 AM EDT
[#23]
What you just SAID doesn't mean anything to me. What the hell are you talking about? Blackmail only works with the consent of the blackmailed. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:58:30 AM EDT
[#24]
tagged
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Posted: 9/22/2004 6:59:54 AM EDT
[#25]
1st - to figure out what the heck is going on!  All I know is, I read some of these "extreme" posts, but I can't see how any .gov or any other activist has the justified right to endanger a website full of comments from various individuals across the nation (world). In school, we never stood for the 'one person acts up so the whole class gets punished', and I don't intend to in the future. Not that I have any real power or anything, just of my voice and pen. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:00:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Covert Ops?
The only one I know about was the HiramRanger CovOps/SpecOps mission!  BigDozer66 |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:00:43 AM EDT
[#27]
100% correct. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:01:46 AM EDT
[#28]
From Goatboy:
"As for the PCness of the site, it's simple and I've explained this several times. There are certain things which will get a place shut down and with all the AWB anger from liberals, they've taken shots at us and won a few minor battles the past few weeks which I have had to deal with. Posts regarding the killing of innocents or the wide spread slaughter of a religion can't be allowed on the site without risking its future. If we were very small it wouldn't be much of a risk, but in our current state we draw way too much attention from our enemies and those with the power to shut us down. I've said it before and I'll say it again, make angry remarks all you want, but be clear as to the target of these statements. "Kill all the terrorists" is not easy to get confused about, "kill them all" is a little vague in a discussion about muslims, iraqis and terrorists. When we were at war, the enemy was more defined and easier to deal with, now things are confusing as hell and it makes it even harder to manage this crap. I want to see these assholes dead like most of us here, but I'm not about to round up American Muslims and line them up because of terrorists. Let's not forget the wonderful actions of domestic terrorists who happen to be of other religions, should we make generalizations there? We need to focus on finding and killing all terrorists, their supporters, and their protectors. I'm not asking anyone to suspend their beliefs or their opinions, I'm asking people to supress some of the extreme generalized comments about killing. " What could possibly get this site shut down??? Inquiring minds want to know. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:01:58 AM EDT
[#29]
tag
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:02:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Forget the 1st Amendment, that's a straw man argument. I want to know what the hell is happening HERE. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:02:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Could someone explain? |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:02:13 AM EDT
[#32]
I think it is R.J. Reynolds.
Please, People. No more recommendations for specific brands of Tin Foil Hats! 
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:03:41 AM EDT
[#33]
 Guys, Goatboy is 100% CORRECT!!!!!!!!!! This is a large site!! This IS a community of 10,000's of people and sponsors. With that comes responsibility....and certain RULES!!!!!!! At the very, very, very worst...Goatboy is taking a an extremely tolerant and right leaning stance on this issue. Goatboy isn't trying to make everyone happy, and he isn't trying to make the advertizers happy, and he isn't trying to make most people happy. He is just doing what HE thinks is right and best for this, OUR, community! And since Goatboy is the REAL MAYOR, (ie site owner), then he can do that!! I don't have to like it.... I can disagree with it... SHIT!! He even lets me post and BITCH AT HIM ABOUT IT!!!!!!!! SO you know what??? After all is said and done I still freaking want to STAY HERE!!!!!!! And that's all I have to say about that. Sgt(maybe)ar15 
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:05:41 AM EDT
[#34]
What he means is that many people on this site, much like my 12 year old, flap their virtual mouths without regard to who is reading what they write, or who is offended by what they say. Those words, unlike spoken words, which drift off to nothingness, are preserved here for posterity. They therefore have a much greater ability to cause real, serious harm to not only the speaker, but all those who associate with him. Therefore a standard of decorum must be maintained, lest the world think that there is wide agreement with the sentiments of the fringe. Remember the lunatic fringe is called that because they are lunatics. Its not a myth. GB and this site due to its size power and prestige have real power and wield real public policy influence. You can be a part of that in a civil and acceptable manner, or you can post angry rantings without regard to limits or infringement elsewhere. This site is too important to the sport shooting and self defense supporting community to be dragged into the fringe. Anger at events, fine, anger at perpetrators of terrorism, fine. Advocating deicide or homocide, or genocide, not fine and not acceptable. Hope that helps with the clarification. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:05:49 AM EDT
[#35]
If it was a "patriot act" subpoena for information ... wouldn't it be illegal for him to tell us about it?
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:05:53 AM EDT
[#36]
tagged ^
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:06:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Sorry, I did not mean to come across as harsh towards you. But seriously, who is being Blackmailed? Am I missing the reading between the lines?? SGatr15 |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:06:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Doesn't answer the question, and is deviating from the original purpose of the thread. I don't care what you think about our "social responsibility" to censor ourselves "for the children". I want to know WHO is attacking arfcom and over WHAT. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:07:06 AM EDT
[#39]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. That only protects you against Congress, who doesn't pay any attention to it anyway. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:07:14 AM EDT
[#40]
LAUGHING MY MOTHERFUCKIN ASS OFF!!!!!!!!
Let's see... it was just a few months back when I was railing away on the encroachment of the 1st Amendment within the context of the FCC and the Howard Stern Show. Of course, a bunch of people here hated Howard because of XYZ.... and that justified the FCC and ClearChannel's actions. The implications are pretty clear. If you are a sizeable enough media resource, you will be subjugated or you will face the consequence. This is a reality of the present administration. I was called names, tinfoil hatted, etc... but in my own personal experience, I can come up with several things which the Avilas may be facing, which are very real, and very serious. Then again, what do I know. I am just a DU troll... DUDUDUDUDUDUDUDUDU!!! |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:08:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Yeah, that's what I said 
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:08:44 AM EDT
[#42]
The 1st amendment protects you from the government saying what you can and cannot say, who you can and cannot worship. You might have noticed, ar15.com is not the government. It's a private site, and your presence here is a privilege, not a right. I'm glad you're here, I'm sure GB is too. But if someone says reckless things had could impugn not just the reputation of the site, but gun ownership as a whole, you're really pushing whether you're welcome to post on a private, pro RKBA site. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:10:02 AM EDT
[#43]
What he is saying is CENSORSHIP is going to be forced upon us if we keep saying we want Muslims dead!
In other words due to the Patriot Act someone is telling him we can no longer do the Patriotic thing and have freedom of speech! The Soviet Union had nothing on .GOV!!!! |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:10:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Like Wal*Mart, The Catholic Church, the USA, and target...any large target. It's called growth..... SGatr15 |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:15:25 AM EDT
[#45]
I guess you just posted without reading any of the above posts, YOU HAVE NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH HERE!! this is a privately owned site. Nothing is being forced on you here. If you don't like it then you can leave, simple as that. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:18:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Look, I love this place, and most of the people in it
 . I DON'T wanna leave, I want to know WHO's attacking it.
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:23:10 AM EDT
[#47]
I can think of one "Rebel-Grey" reason to be subpoena'd for info. It's not my house, I don't throw stones. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:23:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Sorry, just not a big fan of just bending over and taking it in the a... I love this site and can't justify why whatever powers that be would want to jeopardize it because of a handful of people who write some inappropriate things occasionally. I mean, freaking A - if some of the posts offend anyone - DON'T READ THEM. No one is forcing anyone to read anything here. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:24:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Whatever the situation is, I do know this, if the site is shut down none of us will be best served. What good is AR15.com to any of us if they were to tell whoever it is making trouble to piss off, and get it killed? We don't know what the threat is, and if GB won't tell us then there is probably a good reason for it. Call me a apologist or whatever, but I live in the real world as well as the cyber world, and in the real world you have to pick your battles carefully, to avoid becoming a valueless statistic, there comes a time to fight when even at the risk of certain death, you know that your sacrifice will make a difference, and other times you would be throwing away everything you have in an effort that benefits nobody.
Edited to add: For all of those who decide to say "screw this place" I am going to go to xxxxxxx.com (insert name of other site here) where they let me say what I want, go for it, but before you leave hear this, if enough people do that, and the other site gets successfull as this site, they will find themselves in this situation as well, and with less dedicated and skillfull propietors to run things. |
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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:24:42 AM EDT
[#50]
I think thats a reasonable question. |
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