Debate question with anti gun professor. Buying weapons out of state in (CO,AZ,NE)

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Debate question with anti gun professor. Buying weapons out of state in (CO,AZ,NE)

Posted: 9/18/2004 9:47:42 AM EDT

Ok I said the AWB wont even affect people in CA but he said people can just drive across state lines to a gunshop in AZ, Nevada, other progun states. Do a instant background check and walk out with a new Assault rifle.

I told him, I wasn't really familiar with how easy it is to buy guns out of state, but said they could buy similar weapons before the AWB, then I went into how the weapons are the same. Once I explained that its a purely cosmetic ban he said he will look it up and if thats true he is not as worried.

now if anyone could help me out with this question could a CA resident go to a (free state) pass a background check and buy a weapon. I am guessing one could, although alot of gunshop owners probably run into people from CA trying to buy evil stuff.

any experience with this.

Posted: 9/18/2004 9:50:09 AM EDT

[#1]

no, they can't buy guns that would be illegal in their home states and all guns purchased outside your home state must go through an FFL.

Posted: 9/18/2004 9:50:23 AM EDT

[#2]

I don't know if location comes up on a background check, but it is a federal felony to buy out of state a weapon you can't legally own in your state.

Posted: 9/18/2004 9:51:24 AM EDT

[#3]

They would also need a fake ID, because nobody in their right mind would sell a banned weapon to a PRK resident.

Posted: 9/18/2004 10:03:36 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
no, they can't buy guns that would be illegal in their home states and all guns purchased outside your home state must go through an FFL.

Ok so there is a law against it, but he will say its more on the honor policy. So a guy goes out of state goes to the gun shop but they probably wouldnt sell him a weapon that would be illegal in CA cause he had a CA ID card.

Posted: 9/18/2004 10:04:17 AM EDT

[#5]

That's a definite no. Under GCA '68, it's a felony to buy or sell a rifle across state lines unless you have a FFL (Federal Firearms License). Any time you buy a gun from a dealer, they need ID to make sure you're a resident of that state, in addition to performing background checks. If you want to buy a gun from out of state legally, whether from a FFL dealer or a private citizen, it has to be shipped to a FFL in your state, then you have to go to that dealer and do the background check and 4473 form just as if the gun was in that dealer's inventory.

Of course, there's always ways to get around it, but if you do, both the buyer and seller are breaking several laws.

But what's the point anyways? The legal availability of these weapons doesn't have any effect on crime. Also, a true assault rifle is select-fire, and therefore a Class 3 weapon. Getting one requires, among other things, fingerprints, passport photos, a sign-off from the local police chief, a wait of several months while the FBI checks out your background, and a $200 fee. I'm sure that the whole process is illegal in California anyways.

Posted: 9/18/2004 10:07:18 AM EDT

[#6]

In Arkansas you can buy Long guns if your are from one of 45 (i think) states, CA is one you cant be from and buy in AR and I think NV is another

Posted: 9/18/2004 10:14:02 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
That's a definite no. Under GCA '68, it's a felony to buy or sell a rifle across state lines unless you have a FFL (Federal Firearms License). Any time you buy a gun from a dealer, they need ID to make sure you're a resident of that state, in addition to performing background checks. If you want to buy a gun from out of state legally, whether from a FFL dealer or a private citizen, it has to be shipped to a FFL in your state, then you have to go to that dealer and do the background check and 4473 form just as if the gun was in that dealer's inventory.

I don't think the above is accurate. If a rifle or shotgun is legal in the buyer's state, then they may go to a neighbouring state and purchase it there as long as that state doesn't have a state law against it. For example, if I drive down to MA from NH, I cannot purchase a rifle or shotgun because you need a MA license to do so and you need to be a MA resident. If I go to ME, then I can purchase a rifle or shotgun because it is legal for a non-resident to do so in ME and the firearm is legal to possess in my home state of NH. A form 4473 and background check is of course required and I can only purchase a rifle or shotgun from an FFL and not an individual when I am out of state. Handguns must go FFL to FFL in interstate transfers.

Posted: 9/18/2004 10:18:42 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I don't think the above is accurate. If a rifle or shotgun is legal in the buyer's state, then they may go to a neighbouring state and purchase it there as long as that state doesn't have a state law against it. For example, if I drive down to MA from NH, I cannot purchase a rifle or shotgun because you need a MA license to do so and you need to be a MA resident. If I go to ME, then I can purchase a rifle or shotgun because it is legal for a non-resident to do so in ME and the firearm is legal to possess in my home state of NH. A form 4473 and background check is of course required and I can only purchase a rifle or shotgun from an FFL and not an individual when I am out of state. Handguns must go FFL to FFL in interstate transfers.

I remember hearing about that one somewhere, but I never heard of the details. I get the feeling that it's fairly rare. Either way, what Combat_Jack said still applies - you'd have to be nuts to sell a scary-looking weapon to a CA resident, and I don't think many FFLs are that nuts.

Posted: 9/18/2004 10:24:15 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I remember hearing about that one somewhere, but I never heard of the details. I get the feeling that it's fairly rare. Either way, what Combat_Jack said still applies - you'd have to be nuts to sell a scary-looking weapon to a CA resident, and I don't think many FFLs are that nuts.

I bought a shotgun at the Kittery Trading Post in Kittery, ME and it was all explained to me then. I went ahead and researched it more after that.

I agree completely that no one is going to sell anything that is illegal to possess in CA to a CA resident. So that professor is completely misinformed by the media, as usual. The Kittery Trading Post has a lot of MA customers and they can only purchase handguns with loaded-chamber indicators and the store has separate models that have them. And of course it has to be sent to an FFL in MA.

Why do we have so many laws infringing the Second Amendment.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:15:51 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
In Arkansas you can buy Long guns if your are from one of 45 (i think) states, CA is one you cant be from and buy in AR and I think NV is another

Arkansas still has an adjacent state law on the books, unless it has been repealed lately.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:17:26 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Ok I said the AWB wont even affect people in CA but he said people can just drive across state lines to a gunshop in AZ, Nevada, other progun states. Do a instant background check and walk out with a new Assault rifle.

I told him, I wasn't really familiar with how easy it is to buy guns out of state, but said they could buy similar weapons before the AWB, then I went into how the weapons are the same. Once I explained that its a purely cosmetic ban he said he will look it up and if thats true he is not as worried.

now if anyone could help me out with this question could a CA resident go to a (free state) pass a background check and buy a weapon. I am guessing one could, although alot of gunshop owners probably run into people from CA trying to buy evil stuff.

any experience with this.

It is illegal for an unlicensed California resident to purchase a firearm in any other state unless it is sent to a California dealer for transfer. In that case, the firearm would have to be legal to possess in California.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:24:06 AM EDT

[#12]

Yes, it is illegal for a California resident to buy out of state. It would therefore be a federal crime for anyone to sell to a California resident without the sale and transfer going through a California FFL.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:39:48 AM EDT

[#13]

Yes unless he has a temp. residence like is in the military stationed out of CA or a college student or the like he may only buy from a dealer in his state of CA. Of course private sales most would not ask and would sell it and hand it over.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:42:19 AM EDT

[#14]

It is perfectly legal to buy long guns in another state besides the state you live in.You cannot buy a handgun unless it is purchased then transfered to a FFL in your home state.Which means you do not get your hands on the hand gun until you have it transfered to you in your own home state.
A California resident can buy a long gun in another state ,it is not the responsibility of the dealer or the individual selling the weapon,to make sure the purchaser complies with his states laws.The seller must comply with his own states laws period.
Everybody likes to come up with these bullshit explanations,about the Law,but never show the actual LAW with Jurisdictional requirements.
There is NO LAW that disallows a California Resident from purchasing a Long gun out of state.There are California laws that dictate wether or not those long guns may be brought back to California or not.Californias Jurisdiction ends at the California State Line.
When in doubt about any law on the books,wether it be Federal or State,Always find the Jurisdictional limitations first.Otherwise,someone is blowing smoke up your ass.

remember,Just because you may live in a state like California,they have ZERO jurisdiction outside of the State.You may purchase a firearm and own it outside the state.You must comply with California Law if you want to bring that weapon back into the state only.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:46:01 AM EDT

[#15]

I believe that the GCA68 would be the guiding Federal law. It is not legal to sell a gun to someone in another state when that sale would be illegal in their home state. If I recall correctly California does not reciprocate with surrounding states for interstate sales, therefore it would be a Federal violation to sell to a Cali resident.

Posted: 9/19/2004 6:53:33 AM EDT

[#16]

Here we go again. 68 GCA Jurisdiction: Interstate commerce in firearms only.This applies to FFL dealers and manufacturers only.Interstate commerce only applies to the movement of firearms across state lines.It does NOT cover items purchased and kept in the state of sale.As there is NO Interstate Commerce until the item crosses the state line.
You will hear all types of arguments about this,but remember this,It all boils down to Jurisdiction.

Posted: 9/19/2004 7:15:17 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
no, they can't buy guns that would be illegal in their home states and all guns purchased outside your home state must go through an FFL.

Ok so there is a law against it, but he will say its more on the honor policy. So a guy goes out of state goes to the gun shop but they probably wouldnt sell him a weapon that would be illegal in CA cause he had a CA ID card.

I knew people with AZ and CA licenses. They made a business address in AZ to buy guns at shows here. It is probably not that hard to do.

Posted: 9/19/2004 7:31:35 AM EDT

[#18]

(F2) May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another state? [Back]

Generally, a firearm may not be lawfully sold by a licensed dealer to a nonlicensee who resides in a state other than the state in which the seller's licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser's state of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her state of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the state where the licensee's business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with state law in the state where the licensee is located and in the state where the purchaser resides and provided the sale complies with all applicable federal laws. [18 U. S.
C. 922( b)( 3)]

provided the transaction complies with state law in the state where the licensee is located and in the state where the purchaser resides and provided the sale complies with all applicable federal laws. [18 U. S.

provided the transaction complies with state law in the state where the licensee is located and in the state where the purchaser resides and provided the sale complies with all applicable federal laws. [18 U. S.

provided the transaction complies with state law in the state where the licensee is located and in the state where the purchaser resides and provided the sale complies with all applicable federal laws. [18 U. S.

Posted: 9/19/2004 7:58:41 AM EDT

[#19]

But a CA resident can own CA banned rifled as long as it is kept out of state. Didn't a lot of gun ranges on the border of CA offer storage of firearms if the owners did not want to register them.

Posted: 9/19/2004 8:08:36 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
no, they can't buy guns that would be illegal in their home states and all guns purchased outside your home state must go through an FFL.

Ok so there is a law against it, but he will say its more on the honor policy. So a guy goes out of state goes to the gun shop but they probably wouldnt sell him a weapon that would be illegal in CA cause he had a CA ID card.

Uh....all laws are obeyed on the honor policy.

Posted: 9/19/2004 8:23:19 AM EDT

[#21]

Uh....all laws are obeyed on the honor policy.

+1

And.... Kalifornia Professor? That's all you need to know

Posted: 9/19/2004 8:28:13 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
It is perfectly legal to buy long guns in another state besides the state you live in.You cannot buy a handgun unless it is purchased then transfered to a FFL

remember,Just because you may live in a state like California,they have ZERO jurisdiction outside of the State.You may purchase a firearm and own it outside the state.You must comply with California Law if you want to bring that weapon back into the state only.

I agree CA doesnt have its own super police unit that comes across the border and arrests people BUT I don't think you would find a Gun Shop owner that would sell you something evil.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Debate question with anti gun professor. Buying weapons out of state in (CO,AZ,NE)

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