I just educated a police officer about the AWB.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I just educated a police officer about the AWB.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:15:25 AM EDT

My coworker, who's other job is being a police officer, approached me a couple minutes ago because of what she saw on ABC yesterday. She said she saw the footage of the bank robbers using fully automatic weapons and said to herself, "Those guns are full auto! I don't want the ban to end if those are going to be sold now."

I quickly corrected her and pointed out that the 1994 ban that ends next week has nothing to do with fully automatic firearms. I mentioned that fully automatic weapons have been regulated since the 1930's (some time around there), and the current ban only effects semi-auto firearms.

I also pointed out, and she agreed, that all through the 1994 gun ban it was possible to legally buy semi-auto AR15's, AK's, and magazines that hold more than ten rounds.

She seems to have it sorted out now, and I'm hoping she doesn't get duped again.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:16:04 AM EDT

[#1]

Doesn't get duped, or doesn't bother to look up the facts for herself?

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:23:46 AM EDT

[#2]

10 years after it was passed into Law.

SOMEONE tell me why the NRA shouldn't be ridiculed / reamed for such a gross failure - 10 YEARS - what were the NRA's Education efforts / campaigns to the Fraternal Orders of Assholes across this Nation? What were their Education efforts to the GENERAL PUBLIC in the past TEN YEARS, or even in the last YEAR in advance of the Renewal struggle? They couldn't scrounge the money for a Nation-wide 60-sec PSA during a major media event?

I left the NRA when their obstinate mulishness in the face of the 1994 legislation amounted to nothing more than Kruschev-like banging of their shoe on the table, and little / no effective political action in the face of this disgusting Ban. I left when they FAILED to inform and educate THEN, and their CONTINUED failure over the intervening 10 years to get this legislation RESCINDED has KEPT me away.
I'm in CA, so the impact on me was negligible when the Federal law was enacted, or when it EXPIRES this week.
Were I NOT in CA, I still wouldn't be celebrating the EXPIRATION of shitty law as a 'Victory'. The RKBA community 'won' NOTHING.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:24:58 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Doesn't get duped, or doesn't bother to look up the facts for herself?

Correct. She doesn't do her homework. In fact, over the past few months, she came to me to find out what she could legally have on an AR15 that she's buying for herself. She knew that I was more familiar with the gun laws regarding the issue.

I'm just glad that she came to me to get sorted out before acting on the ABC lies.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:27:27 AM EDT

[#4]

Getting PUH-lenty of the same questiojns in my cubicle - people are completely snowballed by the media into believing that come Monday full-auto ownership will become unregulated.

Once I give them a brief going over of NFA '34 the next thing they want to know is what they should buy.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:28:12 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
10 years after it was passed into Law.

SOMEONE tell me why the NRA shouldn't be ridiculed / reamed for such a gross failure - 10 YEARS - what were the NRA's Education efforts / campaigns to the Fraternal Orders of Assholes across this Nation? What were their Education efforts to the GENERAL PUBLIC in the past TEN YEARS, or even in the last YEAR in advance of the Renewal struggle? They couldn't scrounge the money for a Nation-wide 60-sec PSA during a major media event?

I left the NRA when their obstinate mulishness in the face of the 1994 legislation amounted to nothing more than Kruschev-like banging of their show on the table, and little / no effective political action in the face of this disgusting Ban. I left when they FAILED to inform and educate THEN, and their CONTINUED failure over the intervening 10 years to get this legislation RESCINDED has KEPT me away.
I'm in CA, so the impact on me was negligible when the Federal law was enacted, or when it EXPIRES this week.
Were I NOT in CA, I still wouldn't be celebrating the EXPIRATION of shitty law as a 'Victory'. The RKBA community 'won' NOTHING.

rayra, I think the NRA tries to get the word out. The problem is the networks. The networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) monopolize much of what the population sees in the media. Notice that ABC won't be punished for knowingly publishing lies.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:33:45 AM EDT

[#6]

I just realized that this thread has nothing to do with my post, sorry, don't want to hijack.

I will add that you have to be careful when educating cops, if you piss them off and they think you are being samrt ass, that is grounds for them to shot your dog.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:39:23 AM EDT

[#7]

it amazes me that many law enforcement officers are ignorant of the awb and many other gun laws. you would think that they would/should have a better knowledge. amazing.

maybe i'm just crazy for thinking that or maybe even asking too much.
mp

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:42:22 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
rayra, I think the NRA tries to get the word out. The problem is the networks. The networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) monopolize much of what the population sees in the media. Notice that ABC won't be punished for knowingly publishing lies.

I agree with your point, but also point out that bulk mass-mailings are very cheap compared to Superbowl commercial time. There are many ways to circumvent the lamestream media. Forums and Blogs are handing mainstream media their asses this election season - they tried to quash the SBVT by ignoring their press conference at the National Press Club (of all places) back in May, they tried to quash them for three weeks once their first ad ran, and only scrambled to cover the story once the Kerry campaign / DNC finally roused itself with a chosen counterattack strategy.
In the meantime, something like a huge majority of the country saw the ads via FNC, or the Internet, when the ads were originally slated for only a couple states.

There are a LOT of ways the NRA should have informed / educated the Public, the Police, the Legislatures. It's time for a shake-up at the NRA, it's time their Wash DC office "lobbyists" get sacked / changed.
Whomever is running their PR / 'public face' operations these days (it's not still LaPierre, is it?) needs to get on the fucking ball.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:42:42 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
10 years after it was passed into Law.

SOMEONE tell me why the NRA shouldn't be ridiculed / reamed for such a gross failure - 10 YEARS - what were the NRA's Education efforts / campaigns to the Fraternal Orders of Assholes across this Nation? What were their Education efforts to the GENERAL PUBLIC in the past TEN YEARS, or even in the last YEAR in advance of the Renewal struggle? They couldn't scrounge the money for a Nation-wide 60-sec PSA during a major media event?

I left the NRA when their obstinate mulishness in the face of the 1994 legislation amounted to nothing more than Kruschev-like banging of their shoe on the table, and little / no effective political action in the face of this disgusting Ban. I left when they FAILED to inform and educate THEN, and their CONTINUED failure over the intervening 10 years to get this legislation RESCINDED has KEPT me away.
I'm in CA, so the impact on me was negligible when the Federal law was enacted, or when it EXPIRES this week.
Were I NOT in CA, I still wouldn't be celebrating the EXPIRATION of shitty law as a 'Victory'. The RKBA community 'won' NOTHING.

I hear ya, but when the Communists/Socialists control most of the media, it makes it very difficult. Even O'Reilly on Fox can't get it straight.

The Chicken Noodle Network intentionally misinforms the public.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:43:01 AM EDT

[#10]

Nice job.

I had a few friends ask me about it and actually send me links.

my repsonse: http://flashbunny.org/content/assaultweapons.html

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:47:40 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I just realized that this thread has nothing to do with my post, sorry, don't want to hijack.

I will add that you have to be careful when educating cops, if you piss them off and they think you are being samrt ass, that is grounds for them to shot your dog.

I'm on pretty good terms with her (I better be, because I'm her manager). She's come a long way in the right direction. She used to say that she didn't care about the rest of us as long as she could buy her own 'normal' capacity magazines as an LEO.

She still has a long way to go, but at least she's headed in a better direction now.

BTW, this isn't meant to be a "cops are bad" thread. I'm just pointing out the small victory gained by making sure police officers understand the law. I'm sure the LEO's on this board would've done the same thing in my shoes.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:50:39 AM EDT

[#12]

I don't think that so many cops are misinformed becasue they are bad cops, I think it is the direct result of so much misinformation and lies spread by the Antis, and it is going to be an uphill fight getting the mess they made straightened out.

Posted: 9/9/2004 9:59:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
it amazes me that many law enforcement officers are ignorant of the awb and many other gun laws. you would think that they would/should have a better knowledge. amazing. maybe i'm just crazy for thinking that or maybe even asking too much.
mp

Why should they? Does the ATF keep track of the motor vehicle code or city noise ordinances? This nation has an intentionally fragmented system of law enforcement. The city county and state cops out there enforce local or state law. Not Federal law. If the cop is not an enthusiast the most you would likely expect is that they have some vague notion that certain guns are illegal for some people. With regard to the AWB, yes, just until this week, most people in this country thought it banned machineguns and that anyone can have a machinegun come monday morning. That is exactly what the antis wanted them to think and that is the message that got out. Most cops probably think likewise because it just simply isn't there thing. Here is an interesting article that has a level of detail never before heard on this issue in the mainstream media.
www.cleveland.com/world/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1094722494199001.xml

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:02:48 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
it amazes me that many law enforcement officers are ignorant of the awb and many other gun laws. you would think that they would/should have a better knowledge. amazing. maybe i'm just crazy for thinking that or maybe even asking too much.
mp

Why should they? They don't enforce them. It would be like requiring your dentist to know everything about Podiatry.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:15:48 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
My coworker, who's other job is being a police officer, approached me a couple minutes ago because of what she saw on ABC yesterday. She said she saw the footage of the bank robbers using fully automatic weapons and said to herself, "Those guns are full auto! I don't want the ban to end if those are going to be sold now."

I quickly corrected her and pointed out that the 1994 ban that ends next week has nothing to do with fully automatic firearms. I mentioned that fully automatic weapons have been regulated since the 1930's (some time around there), and the current ban only effects semi-auto firearms.

I also pointed out, and she agreed, that all through the 1994 gun ban it was possible to legally buy semi-auto AR15's, AK's, and magazines that hold more than ten rounds.

She seems to have it sorted out now, and I'm hoping she doesn't get duped again.

The red explains it all.....

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:20:16 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
My coworker, who's other job is being a police officer, approached me a couple minutes ago because of what she saw on ABC yesterday. She said she saw the footage of the bank robbers using fully automatic weapons and said to herself, "Those guns are full auto! I don't want the ban to end if those are going to be sold now."

I quickly corrected her and pointed out that the 1994 ban that ends next week has nothing to do with fully automatic firearms. I mentioned that fully automatic weapons have been regulated since the 1930's (some time around there), and the current ban only effects semi-auto firearms.

I also pointed out, and she agreed, that all through the 1994 gun ban it was possible to legally buy semi-auto AR15's, AK's, and magazines that hold more than ten rounds.

She seems to have it sorted out now, and I'm hoping she doesn't get duped again.

The red explains it all.....

You better hope Persephony (sp?) doesn't see this.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:27:59 AM EDT

[#17]

Shotar and JohnInAustin......I KNOW I didn't just understand you two correctly. You're telling me it's NOT a cops job to enforce gun laws? So if I go pick up an illegal full auto.....just look the cop in the eye and be like..."go away, it's not your business to arrest me!" If what you say is true I never have to obey another gun law again.
You're trying to tell me cops do NOT enforce gun laws? Hell, I've had cops give me the lazy eye around here over a pistol and warn me "I could arrest you." To which I replied, "yeah, if you wanted to be unemployed next week." There's no excuse for someone with the power to arrest those in violation of the law to not KNOW the law.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:34:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Why is it we seem to be the only people who understand the gun laws? The police sure do not. Makes me not want to pick up an AR stamped law enforcement only since the cops might use that as a reason to confiscate now, asks questions later and then it takes you weeks or months to get it back--if it doesn't mysteriously disappear from the evidence room.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:37:50 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
My coworker, who's other job is being a police officer, approached me a couple minutes ago because of what she saw on ABC yesterday. She said she saw the footage of the bank robbers using fully automatic weapons and said to herself, "Those guns are full auto! I don't want the ban to end if those are going to be sold now."

I quickly corrected her and pointed out that the 1994 ban that ends next week has nothing to do with fully automatic firearms. I mentioned that fully automatic weapons have been regulated since the 1930's (some time around there), and the current ban only effects semi-auto firearms.

I also pointed out, and she agreed, that all through the 1994 gun ban it was possible to legally buy semi-auto AR15's, AK's, and magazines that hold more than ten rounds.

She seems to have it sorted out now, and I'm hoping she doesn't get duped again.

Well, you were talking to a female

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:43:42 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
rayra, I think the NRA tries to get the word out. The problem is the networks. The networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) monopolize much of what the population sees in the media. Notice that ABC won't be punished for knowingly publishing lies.
I agree with your point, but also point out that bulk mass-mailings are very cheap compared to Superbowl commercial time. There are many ways to circumvent the lamestream media. Forums and Blogs are handing mainstream media their asses this election season - they tried to quash the SBVT by ignoring their press conference at the National Press Club (of all places) back in May, they tried to quash them for three weeks once their first ad ran, and only scrambled to cover the story once the Kerry campaign / DNC finally roused itself with a chosen counterattack strategy.
In the meantime, something like a huge majority of the country saw the ads via FNC, or the Internet, when the ads were originally slated for only a couple states.

There are a LOT of ways the NRA should have informed / educated the Public, the Police, the Legislatures. It's time for a shake-up at the NRA, it's time their Wash DC office "lobbyists" get sacked / changed.
Whomever is running their PR / 'public face' operations these days (it's not still LaPierre, is it?) needs to get on the fucking ball.

And another thing the damn media has done is turn the NRA into an extremist group and tries to make their credibility zip

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:44:34 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

I hear ya, but when the Communists/Socialists control most of the media, it makes it very difficult. Even asshat O'Reilly on Fox ~~can't~~ won't get it straight even when confronted repeatedly with facts.

Fixed.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:46:04 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Shotar and JohnInAustin......I KNOW I didn't just understand you two correctly. You're telling me it's NOT a cops job to enforce gun laws? So if I go pick up an illegal full auto.....just look the cop in the eye and be like..."go away, it's not your business to arrest me!" If what you say is true I never have to obey another gun law again.
You're trying to tell me cops do NOT enforce gun laws? Hell, I've had cops give me the lazy eye around here over a pistol and warn me "I could arrest you." To which I replied, "yeah, if you wanted to be unemployed next week." There's no excuse for someone with the power to arrest those in violation of the law to not KNOW the law.

If you read the quote correctly, he stated:

Most cops probably think likewise because it just simply isn't there thing.

In this job, some people possess more knowledge in certain aspects of the job than do others. Some people are dope experts, some guns, some traffic.

In CA, the penal code is 3000 + pages, the vehicle code 4000 +, Family code, evidence code, welfare and institutions...I could go on and on. A cop making an arrest will research the specific code and apply it as necessary. We do not memorize 10000+ pages of text and caselaw because it is our job to know. That is not possible and does not happen. The original post was a casual conversation, btw. If I cannot apply said law and cite it, no arrest. Doesn't mean I do not crack open the code book.

Do you KNOW every aspect of your job or do you have to defer to books/coworkers/sups and such? I'm hoping you are not as ignorant as your post makes you out to be.

"yeah, if you wanted to be unemployed next week." ...you showed him!

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:48:23 AM EDT

[#23]

okay. so riddle me this - how can you enforce a law when you do not know anything about it (and that includes officers on a federal level?) if you want to take it down to the state or local level - how about the many officers who do not even know about certain firearm laws specific to their state or county? an example would be california (we can exclude Chief Bratton) - their awb is on the state level and has nothing to do with the federal ban. and to address the dentists and podiatrists on this board - they both start off with a general knowledge of medicine and then move on to their specific fields. they still have to learn the basics and in certain situations would be able to help you even though they are not thoroughly trained in that field. my point is this - an officer of the law should have better knowledge of the existing laws (whether they get it from their department by instruction, by individual research, etc.) and should not be learning it secondhand via abc news. now i don't expect law enforcement to repeat every law (even if it is just for their local municipality) verbatim, but i would expect them to be a little more educated than they already are. even though it may not be their "thing," it can still affect then directly.
mp

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:49:05 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Shotar and JohnInAustin......I KNOW I didn't just understand you two correctly. You're telling me it's NOT a cops job to enforce gun laws? So if I go pick up an illegal full auto.....just look the cop in the eye and be like..."go away, it's not your business to arrest me!" If what you say is true I never have to obey another gun law again.
You're trying to tell me cops do NOT enforce gun laws? Hell, I've had cops give me the lazy eye around here over a pistol and warn me "I could arrest you." To which I replied, "yeah, if you wanted to be unemployed next week." There's no excuse for someone with the power to arrest those in violation of the law to not KNOW the law.

Cops do not enforce the 94 AWB. It is a federal law. Cops might enforce any number of state or local laws covering similar material, but contrary to internet paranoia it is not such a commonplace event for them that everyone is well versed in the minutae of detail that they might be were they actually interested, or it was something they did every day. Yes, it is minutae that separates illegal from legal, and if in doubt, they will call someone who knows more than they do about a particular subject, just like I'd call someone who knew more about bank fraud if there was such a need. In general, the people we arrest with guns were doing something else more important, or were not legally able to own a gun anyway, so the details on the particular gun just are not an immediate concern. I'm sure a gynacologist knows how to pin and set broken bones in theory, but would you really want her to?

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:50:25 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Why is it we seem to be the only people who understand the gun laws? The police sure do not. Makes me not want to pick up an AR stamped law enforcement only since the cops might use that as a reason to confiscate now, asks questions later and then it takes you weeks or months to get it back--if it doesn't mysteriously disappear from the evidence room.

You understand gun laws because it directly impacts your interests, and you made the effort. Take one look at all the AWB or police threads and you will realize that even among gun owners, understanding of laws is very rare indeed.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:51:02 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
(snip)She's come a long way in the right direction. She used to say that she didn't care about the rest of us as long as she could buy her own 'normal' capacity magazines as an LEO.

She still has a long way to go, but at least she's headed in a better direction now.

(snip)

So, she's moved away from Fascism all the way up to Socialism now? Wow........

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- --GEORGE ORWELL, Animal Farm

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:54:18 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Shotar and JohnInAustin......I KNOW I didn't just understand you two correctly. You're telling me it's NOT a cops job to enforce gun laws? So if I go pick up an illegal full auto.....just look the cop in the eye and be like..."go away, it's not your business to arrest me!" If what you say is true I never have to obey another gun law again.
You're trying to tell me cops do NOT enforce gun laws? Hell, I've had cops give me the lazy eye around here over a pistol and warn me "I could arrest you." To which I replied, "yeah, if you wanted to be unemployed next week." There's no excuse for someone with the power to arrest those in violation of the law to not KNOW the law.

Apparetly, there is a WHOLE lot you don't understand, and I really don't have the patience to explain it to you, since I've already explained it so many times in the past. The info just does not get thru to paranoid brain cells.

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:02:49 AM EDT

[#28]

Quite often, working cops are as bad as supervisors in not really knowing squat about firearms.

I'm not surprised.

(QUITE OFTEN does not mean ALWAYS!)

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:07:02 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't get duped, or doesn't bother to look up the facts for herself?

Correct. She doesn't do her homework. In fact, over the past few months, she came to me to find out what she could legally have on an AR15 that she's buying for herself. She knew that I was more familiar with the gun laws regarding the issue.

I'm just glad that she came to me to get sorted out before acting on the ABC lies.

How can you ENFORCE the law when you don't know it? Kinda makes the purpose mute, huh?

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:40:42 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't get duped, or doesn't bother to look up the facts for herself?

Correct. She doesn't do her homework. In fact, over the past few months, she came to me to find out what she could legally have on an AR15 that she's buying for herself. She knew that I was more familiar with the gun laws regarding the issue.

I'm just glad that she came to me to get sorted out before acting on the ABC lies.

How can you ENFORCE the law when you don't know it? Kinda makes the purpose mute, huh?

I know, I know. The important thing is that an LEO is now better educated than she was yesterday concerning the AWB. Every time we educate someone it's better for the country.

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:54:35 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Nice job.

I had a few friends ask me about it and actually send me links.

my repsonse: http://flashbunny.org/content/assaultweapons.html

That was pretty cool, except it's pretty small on my screen. I had to put on my glasses and squint to make out osme of the words...

Posted: 9/9/2004 12:01:32 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Why is it we seem to be the only people who understand the gun laws? .

You understand a little bit about gun laws because its your hobby and its a topic that you perhaps have bothered to research and learn about. Don't assume that every person has the same interest level in YOUR hobby.

Posted: 9/9/2004 12:29:29 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
it amazes me that many law enforcement officers are ignorant of the awb and many other gun laws. you would think that they would/should have a better knowledge. amazing. maybe i'm just crazy for thinking that or maybe even asking too much.
mp

In my experience, the average Officer here in Los Angeles, <i>either</i> LAPD or the Sheriffs knows JACK SQUAT about Federal firearms laws, our State laws, or even the County and City laws they are charged with enforcing.
Last year I broke my leg while hiking in the Angeles National Forest. I was legally practicing Open Carry at the time. I was helo-evac'd to a local hospital, the LAFD transported my personal goods to the Emergency Room. Everyone was aware of and casual with my firearm, up to and including the hospital security guard. It was only while on the brink of passing out from exhaustion, dehydration, shock and serious pain medication, and my demanding that the guard LOCK UP THE FIREARM instead of 'just keeping an eye on it', that his supervisor was contacted for the keys to their storage. At that point, the supervisor got interested, found out there was a 'Gun!' in his hospital, and whipped out the Universal PlayBook. Sheriff's contacted, asked me about three questions, and over my protestations and testimony of the Emergency room staff, my pistol was confiscated and I was issued a Concealed Weapon Citation - the pistol at the time was completely unloaded, clip emptied, stuffed in my daypack along with all the rest of my belongings AND the shoe that was cut off my foot - and had NOT been in my possession since I was airlifted from where I was legally exercising my rights.
It took four months, and a lot of legal research, xeroxing of City, County, State, Federal, BLM Legal Codes and bludgeoning of L.A. County Superior Court personnel to get the charges Dismissed and my firearm ordered returned to me. I have to give credit to the local / rescusing Fire personnel - after just a smidge of hectoring and pointing out that if they 'came forward with Affidavits <i>now</i>, the matter would get Dismissed, and if they didn't, I'd certainly be subpeonaing them to testify in my court trial'.
Because a beat cop and his responding Sergeant DIDN'T know the fucking Law.

But I'm not bitter. I'm just making it my business to train and legally arm every person I an able to, within Los Angeles County.

Posted: 9/9/2004 12:49:25 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
10 years after it was passed into Law.
SOMEONE tell me why the NRA shouldn't be ridiculed / reamed for such a gross failure - 10 YEARS - what were the NRA's Education efforts / campaigns to the Fraternal Orders of Assholes across this Nation? What were their Education efforts to the GENERAL PUBLIC in the past TEN YEARS, or even in the last YEAR in advance of the Renewal struggle? They couldn't scrounge the money for a Nation-wide 60-sec PSA during a major media event?

I left the NRA when their obstinate mulishness in the face of the 1994

Well since you don't send them any money you have no say in how they spend what they get. Maybe if ALL gun owners would contribute the NRA could do everything it wants. No group of over 4 million is going to be able to make everyone happy all the time. NRA does a good job and is the only group with the clout in DC to get gunowners views across.

SO either join up or shut up.

Posted: 9/9/2004 1:38:03 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Getting PUH-lenty of the same questiojns in my cubicle - people are completely snowballed by the media into believing that come Monday full-auto ownership will become unregulated.

Once I give them a brief going over of NFA '34 the next thing they want to know is what they should buy.

AGAIN I SAY:

Since the sheeple think MGs will be legal come monday, this is the PERFECT TIME to try to get 922(o) stricken from the code!

Posted: 9/9/2004 2:02:02 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
[bullshit whinge about 'too many laws to learn']

Your numbers & excuse stack up real high, but are meaningless - who gives a rat's ass what the required legal distance is between propane tank and inhabitable dwellings. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GUN-RELATED LAWS.
And there sure as hell AREN'T too many of those to learn.

Posted: 9/9/2004 2:08:20 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
rayra, I think the NRA tries to get the word out. The problem is the networks. The networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) monopolize much of what the population sees in the media. Notice that ABC won't be punished for knowingly publishing lies.
I agree with your point, but also point out that bulk mass-mailings are very cheap compared to Superbowl commercial time. There are many ways to circumvent the lamestream media. Forums and Blogs are handing mainstream media their asses this election season - they tried to quash the SBVT by ignoring their press conference at the National Press Club (of all places) back in May, they tried to quash them for three weeks once their first ad ran, and only scrambled to cover the story once the Kerry campaign / DNC finally roused itself with a chosen counterattack strategy.
In the meantime, something like a huge majority of the country saw the ads via FNC, or the Internet, when the ads were originally slated for only a couple states.

There are a LOT of ways the NRA should have informed / educated the Public, the Police, the Legislatures. It's time for a shake-up at the NRA, it's time their Wash DC office "lobbyists" get sacked / changed.
Whomever is running their PR / 'public face' operations these days (it's not still LaPierre, is it?) needs to get on the fucking ball.

And another thing the damn media has done is turn the NRA into an extremist group and tries to make their credibility zip

+1!!!

But if there are no laws to fight, the NRA would loose financial support and membership. So why wouldn't they want some degree of restrictive laws to remain in place? Without a demon to fight, they're out of a job!

Posted: 9/9/2004 2:11:03 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
[bullshit whinge about 'too many laws to learn']
Your numbers & excuse stack up real high, but are meaningless - who gives a rat's ass what the required legal distance is between propane tank and inhabitable dwellings. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GUN-RELATED LAWS.
And there sure as hell AREN'T too many of those to learn.

I'm guessing by your post you missed the point entirely. I will try to rewrite it for you in easy to understand terms my friend, but I am not going to hold my breath. Did the whole "responsible research" concept slip by you?

I'm sorry but I missed your job knowledge reference...I am afriad I am at a disadvantage. What do you do for a living kind sir?

Posted: 9/9/2004 2:34:44 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

If you read the quote correctly, he stated:

Most cops probably think likewise because it just simply isn't there thing.

Actually smart guy, if YOU read correctly I was refering to this gem: "Why should they?" which was Shotars reply to "I can't believe cops don't know the law." So as a cop, if someone says they can't believe you don't know the law you reply "Why should they?" Here's a clever answer, how about because it's your JOB!

I also like your little dig about how "I showed him" because he threatened to arrest me for having a .25 pistol. A fucking 25 caliber berretta dude and he was treating it like a grenade launcher. So yeah, I did speak up. I spoke right the fuck up because I won't be bullied out of my rights or threatened for breaking no law. I basically dared him to take me in. I'm sure you'd like it much better if I just layed down for him. Maybe handed over the pistol and apologized for owning it. Real nice.

And to address your last question. Do I know everything about my job? Yes, I sure do. Even the stuff I don't deal with. I don't need to reference any books. It's my job to be an expert in my field, and yes I COULD reference a book, but you know what? My personal integrity tells me it's better to be the BEST at my job rather than just "OK." And if my job impacted peoples lives and their freedom then you can damn well bet I'd take it even more seriously. I do understand there's ALOT for you guys to know, probably too much. But a pistol.......if the guy doesn't know the second ammendment he needs more than a reference book.

Posted: 9/9/2004 2:37:51 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Don't assume that every person has the same interest level in YOUR hobby.

Yeah, and your freedom of speech and right to peaceable assembly are a damn fine hobby too. But don't expect cops to know about them, it's JUST a hobby after all. Not like it's a right guaranteed by our constitution or something. You'd think someone who swore to uphold the constitution would have gotten as far as the second ammendment and the few most relevant laws pertaining to it.

Posted: 9/15/2004 5:43:20 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't assume that every person has the same interest level in YOUR hobby.

Yeah, and your freedom of speech and right to peaceable assembly are a damn fine hobby too. But don't expect cops to know about them, it's JUST a hobby after all. Not like it's a right guaranteed by our constitution or something. You'd think someone who swore to uphold the constitution would have gotten as far as the second ammendment and the few most relevant laws pertaining to it.

For most people, shooting is a hobby. Nothing more. As for it being a right in the Constitution, there is plenty of disagreement over exactly what the SA means and how it is to be applied. For that matter, ALL of the Amendments have been the subject of various disputes at one time or another; thats why you have court decisions that clarify what is or is not constitutional.

Posted: 9/15/2004 6:26:55 AM EDT

[#42]

Why is it that so very many subjects on this site have to turn into leo bashing. Most of you that do the badmouthing don't know anything about how leos MUST operate. They do not interpret the law,
they enforce it. It is up to the states attorney generals office how those laws are interpreted and filtered down. And for most of you with your bad experiences with leos, Your mouths probably caused it. And as far as the mentioning of "SHE" in some posts shows what you really know about anything. "SHE"S today (and for a long time) have just as much knowledge and know-how as we do. As far as leos being for the AWB, that's B.S. - I know a couple of thousand of them and not one
was for the ban and not one was against it's expiration.
What started out as a very nice read - "I educated an leo" turned into the usual crap.
Lets start bashing some others, ie: truck drivers, electricians,repairmen, because I had a bad experience with one. Grow up and act like you're old enough to own any weapon.
As far as the educating part, it's up to all of us to inform anyone we can about the facts so we don't ever have to go through this, or anything like it again. You're on the right track but caught the wrong train.

Posted: 9/15/2004 10:34:05 AM EDT

[#43]

I think the reason all the Law Enforcement officers were wanting the ban to stay in place was because,So many of them own there own AR's and which are probably pre-bans.They know the value of them are going to drop and the they want have a much so called superior Ar anymore.I know alot of Officers in the line of work I do that have them. One of them stop by the other day to show me the preban colt he had bought for 1700.00.m I told him that after 9-13-04 he would have anything any better that my post bushy.He seemed to get frustrated and still thought his was the shit.

Posted: 9/15/2004 10:45:17 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
I think the reason all the Law Enforcement officers were wanting the ban to stay in place was because,So many of them own there own AR's and which are probably pre-bans.They know the value of them are going to drop and the they want have a much so called superior AR anymore.I know alot of Officers in the line of work I do that have them. One of them stop by the other day to show me the preban colt he had bought for 1700.00.m I told him that after 9-13-04 he would have anything any better that my post bushy.He seemed to get frustrated and still thought his was the shit.

I think you are off the mark there. Widespread carrying of of patrol rifles did not occur until after the 94 ban was already in place. That means that a lot of the officers who are out there carrying personally purchased rifles own post ban rifles. Either they are carrying letterhead rifles and mags on duty that under the ban couldn't be passed on to heirs or in some cases they, like me, are carrying post ban rifles on duty that don't have the evil features because they DON'T want to put up with having to surrender the rifle some day.The guys I know that had pre bans certainly were not carrying them as duty weapons, because in the event of a shooting, those high value preban rifles would have gone into evidence for years and possibly forever. Thats why I bought my post ban for work; I wasn't about to carry my preban on duty...hhmm..on reflection, I know ONE officer who has a preban Oly Arms while on duty, but thats one he bought the tax stamp for and had the barrel chopped down to 8 or 9 inches, IIRC. That puts his weapon into a different category entirely.

Posted: 9/15/2004 10:54:54 AM EDT

[#45]

Wow, you educated a cop on some gun laws.

You act like you just discovered the cure for cancer.

Want a cookie?

Posted: 9/15/2004 10:59:14 AM EDT

[#46]

Sorry If I missed the mark.What I'm refering to is that whoever has a pre Thinks this is the ultimate AR. I've had 2 pre's and 3 post bans since 1982 .I think the post ban is just as nice of a weapon as the pre. And since this 9-13-04 thing had passed,They will be equal in a sence and just as nice. Long Live The BLACK RIFLE.peace out!

Posted: 9/15/2004 11:00:41 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Nice job.

I had a few friends ask me about it and actually send me links.

my repsonse: http://flashbunny.org/content/assaultweapons.html

That was pretty cool, except it's pretty small on my screen. I had to put on my glasses and squint to make out osme of the words...

Are you using netscape or IE? There's a problem with netscape shrinking the videos that I haven't been able to figure out.

Posted: 9/15/2004 11:21:56 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Wow, you educated a cop on some gun laws.

You act like you just discovered the cure for cancer.

Want a cookie?

Would you rather I didn't? May not be important to you, but some of us think that it's important to educate as many people as possible. LEO's are especially important since they are expected to enforce the laws. Do you want some uninformed cop on the news regurgitating the media garbage about machine guns flooding the streets?

Oh, here's an update. My coworker just bought a new "noban" Colt AR15 for herself. It's got the telescoping stock, bayonet lug, and flash supressor on it. Beautiful gun and I'm definately jealous, because I just don't have that kind of money ($900+). She was showing it off in the parking lot, and wants me to show her my AK tomorrow.

Posted: 9/15/2004 11:30:40 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, you educated a cop on some gun laws.

You act like you just discovered the cure for cancer.

Want a cookie?

Would you rather I didn't? May not be important to you, but some of us think that it's important to educate as many people as possible. LEO's are especially important since they are expected to enforce the laws. Do you want some uninformed cop on the news regurgitating the media garbage about machine guns flooding the streets?

Oh, here's an update. My coworker just bought a new "noban" Colt AR15 for herself. It's got the telescoping stock, bayonet lug, and flash supressor on it. Beautiful gun and I'm definately jealous, because I just don't have that kind of money ($900+). She was showing it off in the parking lot, and wants me to show her my AK tomorrow.

No, you are free to do as you wish. But you make it sound like educating a cop is akin to beating Albert Einstein in a round of Jeopardy.

Posted: 9/15/2004 11:37:33 AM EDT

[#50]

One reason the NRA couldn't do much is the lack of effective communication back then. 10 years ago, we didn't have the kind of web services we do now. Clinton was able to sneak the bastard through, and have it passed quickly. We didn't have much time to respond or protest at all.

Nowadays, they would be VERY hard-pressed to pull the same stunt. We get news before many major news media organizations. We can throw back a barrage of complaints, letters, phone calls, etc. in no time flat.

Times change. No more sneaky shit - whatever happens, we will know. God Bless C-Span.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I just educated a police officer about the AWB.

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