The Official AR15 AWB / "Sunset" Thread

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Official AR15 AWB / "Sunset" Thread

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:22:44 PM EDT

Is there any chance we can just have ONE thread about this?

[Do I have the authority to make an official thread?]

Anyone have any current articles/news about this? Not rumors/hearsay/BS/smart-ass comments/shit-house lawyer talk?

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:25:59 PM EDT

[#1]

By the power granted in me...I authorize you to start the official AWB thread.

How did that sound?

I agree...we need one thread. There are many threads now and it is only Wednesday.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:27:12 PM EDT

[#2]

why just one thread? too much info. it would be 40 pages long by this time tom.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:35:36 PM EDT

[#3]

What is this AWB you speak of?

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:39:32 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
why just one thread? too much info. it would be 40 pages long by this time tom.

?!?!?!

The ban will expire in a little over 122 hours. There is nothing to report.

It is as dead as Julius Caesar.

I am so confident I hereby re-tender my offer from last week: I will send a FREE AR15 if the ban does not expire on schedule. To take the bet IM me before 6AM on 11 September. Of course, if the ban is renewed before then, I get a free AR15 from whomever IMs me to take up the bet.

Any takers? Or are all the moaners afraid to put their money where their mouths are?

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:12:45 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
why just one thread? too much info. it would be 40 pages long by this time tom.

Not if people actually just put useful information instead of speculation and BS... that's why all the other threads hardly make it past page 1... because they all go south.

So here's some news...

Set to Expire
Gun Enthusiasts Rejoice, But Police Fear What Will Happen When Assault Weapons Ban Ends
By Bill Redeker

L O S A N G E L E S, Sept. 8, 2004 — Nothing gets Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton more impassioned than talking about the impending expiration of the 10-year-old assault weapons ban.
"Nobody has an inalienable right to run around with a machine gun," he said. "I'm sorry, that's insanity!" [Ahh how refreshing.. machine guns?... not even one paragraph into this article and already it reeks of anti-BS. How so unlike ABC. ]

Unless Congress or the Bush administration agrees to extend the ban, it will expire on Monday. Soon, all sorts of semi-automatic weapons could once again be legal. [The very same sort that are already one the streets.]

Assault weapons used to be a hot-button political issue. But the ban is expiring without a serious debate in Congress, even though a survey released this week by the University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey found that 68 percent of Americans want Congress to extend the ban. [They must have missed that survey that we hammered into oblivion... how unusual. Well if the survey they read said that then it must be true. And whoever missed posting the link to that survey is officially fired.]

Republican leaders in Congress want the ban to expire, and President Bush is doing nothing to renew it.
"I think the will of the American people is consistent with letting it expire, so it will expire," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., told reporters on Capitol Hill today.
[Translation: "To address this issue right now would be political suicide for anyone... especially W.]

Bush says he opposes the semi-automatic weapons, but is careful not to upset the National Rifle Association, a powerful gun lobby.
[Funny, I thought he said he supported it or something to that effect.]

The NRA will endorse the president's re-election bid after the ban expires, ABC News has learned.
[Like that really wasn't going to happen anyone. The NRA certainly wouldn't endorse JFK, and definitely not some independent who stand no chance in hell of being elected. Not to mention that the Campaign Finance Reform is going to have it's jack boot on the NRA's neck until the election is over anyway.]

But most Democrats aren't putting up a fight either because they do not want to bring on the wrath of the NRA in key congressional districts during an election year.
[Lesson learned compliments of Al "My fellow astronauts" Gore]

"There is a big block of Democrats joining a big block of Republicans that will make sure this issue never sees the light of day in the House," said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president and CEO of the NRA.

Democrats remember what happened 10 years ago, when a Democratic Congress sent then-President Clinton the bill outlawing assault weapons. A few months later, the gun lobby was instrumental in helping Republicans win control of the House.

AK-47s and Uzis Back on the Street? [madness... because uzi's have been under lock & key ever since the ban and not a crime has been committed since that day...]
The ban outlawed 19 types of military-style assault weapons.

If it expires, Russian AK-47 assault rifles and Israeli Uzi machine guns could become available,
[ABC really did their homework on this one... since when does the AWB have anything to do with import laws that will flood the streets with AK's from Russia. The ones that are here are already able to be bought... WTF?] as well as high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 bullets. [more than ten rounds... oh man... might as well declare marshall law now that people will be slinging their military-style weapons on the shoulders and running through the streets with 30 round mags... Of course... we in MD already know M4Aiming@U has been doing this all along ]

Chuck Payne, manager of Ray's Sporting Goods in Dallas, is upbeat about the situation.
"If you got a high-capacity magazine you spend less time reloading," he said. "You shoot more, which is good for us because we sell more ammunition."
[Chuck Payne added "...because no self respecting jackass knows how to reload a 10-round magazine after it's been emptied... everyone goes to the range with one loaded 10 magazine and after emptying it they go on home."]

The firearms industry can't wait to take advantage of the sun setting on the decade-old ban. Arms manufacturer Beretta is currently offering coupons for two free 15-round magazines. An Arizona gun maker is using his Web site to tick off the minutes until the ban expires.
["Ooooo... those damned assault tickers... we at ABC condemn any website with an countdown timer. DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!"]

At a shooting range in Los Angeles County, gun enthusiasts said it's about time.
"You have people who effectively want to kill you," said insurance agent Douglas Rahn. Asked if he thought assault weapons are necessary to protect people, he agreed. "Well, I think they are," he said between gunfire bursts down range.

At an indoor target range in Dallas, Randy Ryan said he was glad to see the ban go. "It's just good to see one more silly gun law gone. You almost never see a gun law disappear."

Dropping the ban also means that semi-automatic weapons could soon become available without a folding stock, which makes the gun easier to conceal. It also means that the barrel of the gun can come equipped with a flash suppressor, which makes it more difficult to see the location of the shooter at night [, barring the incredibly loud CRACK from the shots. ]

Many of these modifications are perfectly legal for the military and law enforcement officers, but soon they could be legal for civilian gun owners, and that has police worried.
[How exactly are those features modifications? That is the way they were originally manufactured until Clinton came along in 94.

‘Weapons of Murder’
"They're weapons of murder," says LAPD Chief Bratton. "They are not weapons for hunting or collecting. [Someone want to e-mail this clown the link to the picture thread?] Why do we want to let the ban expire just so some nut can go running around with a gun and show off? And that's exactly what will happen." [Yes, and what about all the nuts currently running around with their post-bans? Ok, showing off... he might need to expand on that one... If showing off it taking it out of the case/locker/safe, taking a digital picture of it, locking it back up and posting the picture on a web site... well, then guilty as charged. Oh, and everyday when the school bus drops off the neighborhood kids I make a special effort to run out of the house with my Bushmaster yelling, "Hey kids, check this out!!!". I'm going to go out a limb here and make a guess that the education prerequisites to work for the LAPD are pretty minimal... with the exception of the members on here. ]

In fact, in 1997 two bank robbers in North Hollywood armed with ~~assault weapons~~ illegal machine guns held off 350 cops for more than two hours. They fired more than 1,100 rounds from their 75 round-drum magazines. [ Are those numbers correct]

Now police are worried that making such guns and magazines legal simply means it will be easier for criminals [criminals being defined as those with a record, who would therefore not be able to legally purchase a firearm and would likely get fined/arrested for attempting to do so] to get them because more of them will be available. [They're pretty darned available right now... do they define a criminal as a person who has committed a crime or a citizen?]

"The irony is we'll probably have more of these weapons in the United States than there are in Iraq in the hands of insurgents," said Bratton. "Isn't that amazing?"
[Yes truly amazing... more amazing than the fact that we supplies those insurgents with their weapons during previous administrations... fucking amazing. But one thing is for sure... those insurgents won't be dumb enough to come over here acting liek they do over there.]

ABCNEWS' John Cochran contributed to this report.

Oops.... that wasn't news... that was typical liberalanti-gun propaganda.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:13:40 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:14:58 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I am so confident I hereby re-tender my offer from last week: I will send a FREE AR15 if the ban does not expire on schedule. To take the bet IM me before 6AM on 11 September. Of course, if the ban is renewed before then, I get a free AR15 from whomever IMs me to take up the bet.
Any takers? Or are all the moaners afraid to put their money where their mouths are?

I wouldn't even take that bet with an Airsoft... and I seriously doubt any of the people who have been saying it won't sunset will either.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:18:00 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I am so confident I hereby re-tender my offer from last week: I will send a FREE AR15 if the ban does not expire on schedule. To take the bet IM me before 6AM on 11 September. Of course, if the ban is renewed before then, I get a free AR15 from whomever IMs me to take up the bet.
Any takers? Or are all the moaners afraid to put their money where their mouths are?

I wouldn't even take that bet with an Airsoft... and I seriously doubt any of the people who have been saying it won't sunset will either.

In other words, they don't believe what they are saying on this board. That's pretty pathetic.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:23:58 PM EDT

[#9]

Congress will not vote on assault weapons ban expiring next week

APARNA H. KUMAR, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, September 8, 2004

(09-08) 15:19 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Congress will not vote on an assault weapons ban due to expire Monday, Republican leaders said Wednesday, rejecting a last-ditch effort by supporters to renew it.

"I think the will of the American people is consistent with letting it expire, so it will expire," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., told reporters.

The 10-year ban, signed by President Clinton in 1994, outlawed 19 types of military-style assault weapons. A clause directed that the ban expire unless Congress specifically reauthorized it.

Some Democrats and several police leaders said President Bush should try to persuade Congress to renew the ban. Bush has said he would sign such a bill if Congress passed it.

"If the president asked me, it'd still be no ... because we don't have the votes to pass an assault weapons ban and it will expire Monday and that's that," House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, told reporters later.

DeLay said the ban was "a feel-good piece of legislation" that does nothing to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.

However, House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said he would consider allowing the House to vote on legislation only if the Senate acted first.

Appearing at a news conference, chiefs of police from the District of Columbia, Los Angeles, Atlanta and Seattle predicted an increase in violent gun crimes if the bans does expire.
[An increase in violent gun crimes in D.C.? Stop right there. Are we talking about the capital of the United States... that place where there are absolutely NO GUNS allowed to be had by "citizens"? That sounds more like an admission that the D.C. Chief of Police can't uphold the law in his own town. L.A.? Another big shocker... and strangley enough... another place where guns are outlawed. No mention of Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, N.Y. or N.J.?]

"Our streets, our homes, our citizens and our police officers will face great danger unless the federal ban on assault weapons is renewed," said Charles H. Ramsey, the police chief in the nation's capital.
[Danger of what? Criminals? They weren't a danger before? Who the hell let this guy talk?]

In March, the Senate voted to add the ban to a bill that would have immunized gun manufacturers from liability suits stemming from violent gun crimes. But the Senate voted 90-8 against the final bill after the National Rifle Association urged its defeat.

NRA President Wayne LaPierre said in an interview with The Associated Press that his group is so confident that Congress won't renew the ban that it is not spending any more money on ads this year opposing it.
[Must be why I haven't gotten any more "donation" letters in the mail...]

He said supporters of the ban could not muster the support needed to bring it to a vote in the House because several Democrats attribute losing their majority in the House in 1994 over votes then in favor of the ban.

Well, that one was a little more fair and balanced...

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:25:27 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
In other words, they don't believe what they are saying on this board. That's pretty pathetic.

Yep, and I'm sure not one of those same people would put an Tacpoint on their AR if it was free either...

Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:36:11 PM EDT

[#11]

Lawmakers call on White House to back renewal of ban on assault weapons... or... "The sky is falling... THE SKY IS FALLING!!"

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Lawmakers in the Senate warned that the likely demise next week of a 10-year-old federal ban on semi-automatic assault guns will lead to a flood of such weapons on the streets of cities across the United States.

US Senator Dianne Feinstein called the assault weapons ban "one of the most important public safety measures this country has seen."

"This is truly a dark day in the Senate's history, as we let this ban, which has worked so well and saved lives, simply fade away," Feinstein said on the Senate floor.

The California Democrat was one of the original sponsors of the ban enacted by Congress a decade ago which prohibited the manufacture of 19 types of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and also outlawed ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds.

Massachusetts Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy called the banned firearms "domestic weapons of mass destruction."
[Was the car that drove the bridge an Oldsmobile or a...]

Assault weapons, Kennedy said "are intentionally designed to maximize their killing power, by using a rapid rate of fire" and are "the weapon of choice for drug traffickers, gangs, and other criminal groups across the nation."
[Much more rapid, than, say, any other LEGAL semi-auto rifle. And drig traffickers. The way it was explained to me (by 9supercomp) is that drug dealers avoid having guns in the same place as drugs because the charges for the guns are worse than those for the drugs... Gangs? Once again, more than likely people with criminal records who can't LEGALLY buy any guns, let alone a scary black rifle. Criminals... do I really need to repeat this?]

The law, which has the support of law enforcement officials and a broad cross-section of the US public, is due to expire at midnight on September 13, unless lawmakers in Republican-controlled Congress vote to reinstate it.

Supporters have said that a renewal vote is unlikely however, unless US President George W. Bush demonstrates strong support for the measure -- which they say he has failed to do so far.

Feinstein said the White House has failed to aggressively endorse the ban, in hopes of winning support from the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA) in advance of November's presidential election.

The membership of the NRA, which strenuously opposes renewing the law, is largely white, (with rednecks) conservative, rural and male -- a key component of US President George W. Bush's base.

Equally vocal in support of reinstating the anti-assault weapons law, the non-profit Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has called on the public to flood the White House with e-mails and phone calls urging its renewal.

The Brady group, which said that about 50 officers have died from assault weapons fire in the past six years, said Bush's failure to push for the weapons ban gives the lie to his assertion that he is a "compassionate conservative."

"If he doesn't call for action, the president will be showing that his compassion is limited to the lunatics who want to stockpile Uzis, AK-47s and Tec-9s," the group said in a statement.

I was going to leave this article alone since it pretty well speaks for itself, but as you can see, it's like dangling a packed bowl in front of a pothead... It's irresistable!!

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:38:36 PM EDT

[#12]

Happy Trails to You....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:40:14 PM EDT

[#13]

IBTP40 (in before page page 40)

Posted: 9/9/2004 4:11:39 AM EDT

[#14]

Those that said that it's more or less done with at this point... I think you're pretty ucright, but it would be nice to keepthe updates of any pending/future AWB that they might try to pass after this one has gone away. Depending on whether or not the people who pas this sort of legislature actually read the hard facts that the 94 AWB did absolutley nothing will determine whether they let another one get through. In aperfect world, they would look at the numbers, realize the 94 AWB was pointless and that would be that.... but that would be giving them entirely too much credit.

So, if anyone has heard news about people like Feinstein not letting this lie and pushing for a newer, harsher one, by all means keep us posted.

Posted: 9/9/2004 4:14:11 AM EDT

[#15]

So does it sunset on the 13th or 14th?

Posted: 9/9/2004 4:19:55 AM EDT

[#16]

A G N T S A

Posted: 9/9/2004 5:04:52 AM EDT

[#17]

don't remember the exact quote, but Tom Brokaw said last night that the Colt AR 15 hadn't been made in 10 years.

Posted: 9/9/2004 5:24:31 AM EDT

[#18]

and for once, brokejaw would be correct

but they can be made on tuesday

Posted: 9/9/2004 6:35:40 PM EDT

[#19]

For those who skip the "front" page of the site... like me.

End of weapons ban no loss, sellers say
Thursday, September 09, 2004
JOE SNAPPER
THE SAGINAW NEWS
Go ahead: Affix that bayonet to your folding-stock AK-47. While you're at it, why not clip in that brand new 15-round magazine?

A federal assault-weapons ban ending Monday legalizes it all, and firearm experts say prices of in-demand high-capacity magazines could drop.

But they also say the 10-year Clinton-era restriction -- largely aimed at manufacturers of magazines and other military-style features -- was mostly a political move.

"It was feel-good law," said Doug Williams, manager at of Dick Williams Gun Shop, 4985 Cole in Spaulding Township. "I don't think it will have much impact on crime either."

Sale and use of magazines carrying more than 10 rounds have remained legal, although many already avoided larger clips, which are more prone to jam, experts say.

Meanwhile, collectors may now legally mount on their semi-automatic assault rifles the serrated knives used in hand-to-hand combat.

"I haven't heard of anyone getting bayoneted lately," cracked Denny Smith, salesman at Dick Williams.

While they now sell for $45 to $65 apiece, 15-round magazines becoming legal may drive the price to as low as $25, Doug Williams said.

"The price structure on a certain high-capacity magazine will plummet," he said.

Magazine manufacturers mass produced "thousands and thousands and thousands" of over-10-round clips in the run-up to the ban's 1994 start, said Sue Bare, owner of Bare's, a shooting sports retailer at 104 W. Water in St. Charles.

"They're all completely legal to buy, own, sell and use, so it didn't matter --not up here anyway," she said. "We're not out here in firefights."

Despite the ban's lack of teeth, gun enthusiasts remain ardent opponents, said Glen C. Duncan, owner of Duncan's Sports Shop in Bay City .

The shop carries very few AK-47s or SKS assault rifles.

"They're classics," Duncan said.

"If (the ban) doesn't do anything, why have it? It's just taking away one more of our freedoms."

The law banned 19 types of assault weapons but included a "sunset" clause that said it would expire in 10 years without a Congressional renewal.

President Bush has vowed to sign an extension, but Republican leaders said Congress will not vote to extend the ban.

Gun-control advocates want an extension of the ban and also expanded background checks on gun purchasers to include sales by private collectors at gun shows and flea markets.

"We are always obviously concerned when there are unnecessary guns that are on the streets --which has nothing to do with people's right to bear arms," said Tom McIntyre, head of Saginaw County Central Dispatch and former sheriff.

"That has been the difficult balance of justice," he said. "Unfortunately, not to decide is to decide. By their lack of action, they are prepared to allow this." t

Joe Snapper is a staff writer for The Saginaw News. You may reach him at 776-9715.

Posted: 9/9/2004 6:57:14 PM EDT

[#20]

Now that the sunset looks like it's pretty much a guarantee, has anyone heard anything from the industry/manufacturers regarding their intentions after 13 Sept 03?

It seems they have been VERY quiet about the whole thing... whether to avoid getting our hopes up for nothing or because they have some seriously awesome surprises to present to us next week, I guess only time will tell..

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:16:06 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

The ban will expire in a little over 122 hours. There is nothing to report.

It is as dead as Julius Caesar.

I am so confident I hereby re-tender my offer from last week: I will send a FREE AR15 if the ban does not expire on schedule. To take the bet IM me before 6AM on 11 September. Of course, if the ban is renewed before then, I get a free AR15 from whomever IMs me to take up the bet.

Any takers? Or are all the moaners afraid to put their money where their mouths are?

Since you didn't specify which Ban . I'll take your bet that come next Tuesday I will still be under
a ban

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:57:17 PM EDT

[#22]

DUDE!@

Posted: 9/10/2004 3:04:38 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The ban will expire in a little over 122 hours. There is nothing to report.
Any takers? Or are all the moaners afraid to put their money where their mouths are?

Since you didn't specify which Ban . I'll take your bet that come next Tuesday I will still be under
a ban

Are there a bunch of other "bans" that are set to expire at the same time as our beloved AWB?

Looks like, according to the poll, the bayonet lug is the least popular "evil feature" of an assault weapon. And here I thought every gun event from here on would be called BayonetStock, Bayonet Day, etc...

Posted: 9/10/2004 1:32:55 PM EDT

[#24]

From USAToday

Assault-gun ban fades away
Bush and Democrats play down support for a decade-old law that most Americans like.
By Linda Feldmann | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

WASHINGTON – In the expanding universe of hot-button political issues, little has been heard of an old favorite - gun control - in this campaign until now. At midnight on Monday night, the 10-year-old ban on certain assault weapons will almost certainly expire as scheduled.
Activists on both sides of the issue have lobbied fiercely: Gun-rights advocates, with the National Rifle Association leading the charge, argue that the ban has done nothing to stop criminals from obtaining weapons and violates the Second Amendment. Gun-control supporters put forth statistics showing a dramatic decline in the criminal use of assault weapons since the ban's enactment in 1994.

President Bush has said that he supports the ban and would sign a bill extending it, but has not pressed Congress to act.

This flareup over the gun issue comes amid a highly charged election campaign, in which Democrats in particular are showing they've learned lessons of the past, analysts say. In 2000, Democratic nominee Al Gore favored licensing gun owners and registering all handguns - and went on to lose five battleground states in which he underperformed among gunowners: West Virginia, New Hampshire, Florida, Arkansas, and Tennessee. Mr. Gore almost lost Pennsylvania, too, another state with a high rate of gun ownership.

This year, Democratic nominee John Kerry - himself a gun owner and hunter - does not back the measures Gore did. And for the first time, the Democratic platform declares support for "Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms."

"Until this election, the Democrats have handled the gun issue poorly and it has hurt them," says Jim Kessler, policy director of the group Americans for Gun Safety, who notes that 47 percent of voting households have a gun in the home. Now, he adds, "Democrats have reached out and are telling gun owners that they support the rights as well as the responsibilities of gun ownership. I don't think [the issue] will hurt them in this election." [Picture, if you will, a flaming bag of shit... If people believe this bag is anything other than a bag of shit and they try to stomp it out, they will be in for a big stinky surprise... much like if people actually believe that the Dems actually give one rats ass about the 2nd Amendment.]

The National Rifle Association, which gun critics say is withholding its endorsement of President Bush until after the assault-weapons ban has safely expired, is pounding hard on Senator Kerry anyway.

The organization calls Kerry "the most antigun presidential nominee in United States history," citing 59 votes involving firearms rights and hunting over 20 years, with only four going the NRA's way.

For now, though, NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre sees Kerry having some success in what he calls "an attempt to fog over the issue." He says NRA polling data show that 42 percent of gunowners and hunters in key heartland states like Ohio, Missouri, and Arkansas believe gun restrictions will be lowered if Kerry is elected. "Our job at NRA between now and the election is to blow away the fog," says Mr. LaPierre.

On the Republican side, the 2004 platform says nothing about guns - but it doesn't need to, analysts say. The party is already firmly on record as supporting gun rights, and Bush has an image of strength and resoluteness, especially since 9/11. His past statements supporting an extension of the assault-weapons ban insulate him from being out of step with public opinion.

"Bush is in an enviable position, having it both ways," says Richard Feldman, a former lobbyist for the firearm industry.

This week, a poll by the Annenberg Public Policy Center showed that 68 percent of Americans, and 32 percent of NRA members, support extending the ban. And gun-control forces are working hard to maximize that support. In a study based on statistics from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun violence found that crimes traceable to assault weapons declined by 66 percent since the law took effect. Overall, such crimes represent a small percent of all gun crimes (less than 5 percent before the ban, and now 1.6 percent). [Huh, another loaded poll.... imagine that. If this poll was legit (and public) I'm sure someone here would have heard about it, posted the link, and it would have received a steady volley of "against the extension" votes]

Another study released in July, commissioned by the National Institute of Justice, which is part of the Justice Department, concluded that the law's success in reducing criminal use of the banned weapons has been mixed and that it's too soon to make a final assessment. [10 years isn't enough time to determine something is useless. I bought a Roll-a-hose from the As Seen on TV Store and knew within 10 minutes it was useless...]

Still, gun-control advocates maintain that the assault-weapons ban was instrumental in the overall decline in violent crime during the past 10 years, which can also be attributed to other get-tough measures on crime and a strong economy.

"It just doesn't make any sense not to extend the ban," says Peter Hamm of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "The only reason not to is to keep the NRA happy." [Yes, that is definitely why I want it gone.. I'm all for making the NRA "happy". The easy, and equally mindless, 3rd grade response would be "But voting to extend it would only be done to make the Brady Campaign happy. And by the way... I'm rubber and your glue...]

The Senate voted in favor of an extension earlier this year, while the House leadership says it has no intention of bringing a vote - despite strong public support for the ban. "We don't do things by polls, or any other form of voter response to an issue. We have found the easiest way to address these issue is by flipping a coin. we called heads today... and heads it was." says House majority leader Tom DeLay.

The ban prohibited the "manufacture, transfer, and possession" of 19 models of semiautomatic firearms and variations on those, according to characteristics such as flash suppressors, folding rifle stocks and threaded barrels. The law also banned most magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

This week, gun-control advocates pushed their position. Joined by police chiefs from around the country, gun victims, and relatives of victims, supporters of the ban made one last plea for its extension. But they their chances are slim to none, and that gunmakers are already poised to start selling the now-banned weapons on Sept. 14. The Consumer Federation of America expects manufacturers to come out with new models of such weapons as AK-47s, TEC-9s, and Uzis.
[Riiiiiiiight. It's all about Uzis and Tec-9's kids... you'll be finding them in bubble gum machines come next week as the roll out of the factory and onto "the streets". Mooohahahha ]

RISKS RETURN: Rhode Island police officer Frank Moody holds a weapon that will no longer be banned.
VICTORIA AROCHA/AP

• Staff writer Gail Russell Chaddock contributed to this story.

Posted: 9/13/2004 4:49:25 AM EDT

[#25]

A fairly unbiased article... considering some of the other crap out there...
link

Assault weapon ban ends

By Dwayne Pickels
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, September 13, 2004

Local gun dealers say they don't anticipate a flood of orders for assault weapons, despite today's expiration of a 10-year federal ban on specific military-style firearms.
But they are wondering how gun-makers will respond to the changed legal landscape -- and whether legislators may try to revive the ban once the election season ends.

"Nobody really knows what's going to happen," said Dale Frund, the manager at Johnson's Gun Depot, in Norvelt. "We don't know how the manufacturers are going to gear up or what (merchandise) they've been sitting on for the last 10 years."

And until the Nov. 2 election sets a course for national politics, he can't begin to guess whether new legislation will rise to reinstate the ban, Frund added.

"There's a sort of window from Sept. 13 to Nov. 2," he said. "I'm sure there's already something new in the works, but we'll just have to wait until after the election and see."

Congress made no effort to halt the sunset provision of the ban, which was part of the federal Violent Crime Control Act that took effect on Sept. 13, 1994.

The law required domestic gun manufacturers to halt production of 19 specific semiautomatic weapons -- guns that chamber and fire a single round with each pull of the trigger. It also prohibited production of firearms with more than one feature on a list of "assault weapon" stylings, and limited magazine capacities to 10 rounds of ammunition.

Before and during the ban, debate raged over whether a semiautomatic firearm truly can be called an assault weapon.

Most gun advocates argued that only fully automatic guns -- weapons that fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger -- qualify as true assault weapons. Possession and sale of those firearms are governed by a different federal law that remains in effect. Certain types of ammunition and explosive devices also are controlled under separate statutes.

The ban defined and outlawed only semiautomatic weapons and the military-style features found on some models.

"It's the look that scares people," said Jan Turis, another worker at Johnson's Gun Depot. "Appearance means a lot."

Pointing to a number of military-style rifles on the wall of the shop in Mt. Pleasant Township, he said, "The toughest gun on that wall is probably the M1 (Garrand)."

The semiautomatic, World War II-era rifle fires .30-06 ammunition, significantly more powerful than the cartridges fired by most of the weapons affected by the ban. But the M1's eight-round capacity and traditional rifle stock kept it off the list.

Aesthetics aside, the ban's expiration means those weapons once again may be sold legally.

And Westmoreland County Sheriff Chris Scherer said that leaves him with mixed feelings.

"I'm a member of the Fraternal Order of Police and the Pennsylvania Sheriff's Association, and both organizations have been lobbying to keep the ban in effect," Scherer said. "But I'm also a member of the National Rifle Association, and they want to see it lifted."

The NRA fought the ban and urged members on its Internet Web site to "pull out all the stops ... to ensure that this ban expires as Congress intended, and becomes nothing more than a sad footnote in American history."

Both sides of the gun control issue have "very strong lobbies, and I'm sure that it's going to be a political question for the entire country," Scherer added.

"There are pros and cons for both sides," he said. "But I will say this: people who purchase their guns legally and go through all of the appropriate procedures really aren't the ones who are causing problems. It's the ones who purchase them illegally who are committing the crimes."

Locally, he added, "this area has a large number of sportsmen, and assault weapons really haven't been a problem here as long as I've been sheriff. But if they become prevalent, we will certainly have to adjust accordingly with our training and tactics."

Local gun dealers say they don't anticipate a rush of orders for assault-style weapons to hit their shelves any time soon, though.

"We haven't had any big boom in requests" for the firearms, Frund said.

Turis said people who may want to own the formerly banned weapons are "mostly collectors, enthusiasts ... paper punchers" -- a nickname for recreational shooters who take aim at paper targets, he explained.

"But I just don't see things changing much with the ban expiring. I really don't," Turis added. "At least until after the election."

Bill Gorol, owner of Woodland's Edge Sporting Goods, in Delmont, said he doesn't plan to alter his line of firearms, which includes handguns and hunting-style rifles and shotguns.

The ban's expiration "is not going to affect me at all," Gorol said. "My customer base is not interested."

Turis said one place where significant quantities of the formerly banned weapons are likely to turn up is at the Pennsylvania Gun Collector's Association gun show, set for Saturday and Sunday at the Expo Mart in Monroeville, Allegheny County.

"I'm sure you'll see a lot of that stuff there," said Turis, a longtime member of the organization.

Dwayne Pickels can be reached at [email protected] or (724) 539-3320.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:00:31 AM EDT

[#26]

Link

Assault weapon ban ends today
Local officials opposed to law''s end
Posted on September 13, 2004

The 10-year-old assault weapons ban today, thus lifting the law that prohibits the manufacture and sale of 19 brands of semi-automatic weapons in the United States.

Among the weapons that will be available at gun shops across America is the M-96 semi-automatic that sprays up to 120 bullets in 45 seconds. Another weapon is called the Street Sweeper for its ability to take out a lot of human targets in short order. These guns are designed for military purposes but have captured favor with gun collectors and the National Rifle Association. The NRA is on record opposing any gun ban on the principle that one ban might be extended to bans on all guns. [hell of a start on this article... spray huh? I supposeif you're bump firing... or you have a wicked fast trigger finger... ]

Although Louisiana is the land of the great outdoorsman, hunters use shotguns and rifles to capture their prey.

"No, hunters don't use assault weapons," said Kevin Doucet of Opelousas, an avid hunter and member of the conservation and hunting organization Ducks Unlimited.

According to the Houston Chronicle, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, questioned the effectiveness of the 1993 ban and said gun owners fear a new law might extend "to all kinds of hunting rifles." Any way, he said, "automatic weapons are banned already."

Opelousas Police Lt. Frank Boudreaux admitted having more of the guns on the streets could make his job more difficult and dangerous, but, he said, assault weapons are out there right now. The ban has not been effective, he said.

"They (criminals) already have these weapons. They get them on the black market like everything else they get. The only thing the ban did is prevent gun collectors and honest citizens from purchasing these weapons. But yes, we consider these guns very dangerous," Boudreaux said. [This is a quote from a COP?]

Other members of local law enforcement and the criminal justice system expressed shock over the idea of making these weapons more available to the public.

"Assault weapons are designed to do one thing: Wreak havoc," said St. Landry Parish District Attorney Earl Taylor. "To have those kinds of weapons available creates a serious problem that we will have to deal with. It scares the hell out of me to know that there are people out there with assault weapons. I am certainly not in favor of that. I believe there will be serious consequences because of the lifting of the ban." [BAAAAHHHHHH!!! Sheeple... scared little sheeple. What exactly scares them? The bayonet lugs? And wreacking havoc? On paper or perhaps a milk jug or bowling pin... ]

St. Landry Parish Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Laura Balthazar agrees with Taylor.

"I can't believe that anyone would think that having assault weapons on the streets is a good idea. It makes our job more difficult and much more dangerous. It also makes it more expensive. We're going to have to take counter measures in purchasing body armor and more powerful weapons. We're doing that now to some degree because the drug busts we make, a lot of them have assault weapons. With the ban being lifted, it will be easier for them to buy and use these weapons," Balthazar said.
[on the streets... I think that is my favorite phrase to hate. And I'm definitely calling on that drug bust comment. ]

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:03:16 AM EDT

[#27]

tears, it's over, and common sense won out

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:06:16 AM EDT

[#28]

FYI
Huge AWB sunset party in FEINSTEIN's mouth tonight!!

Hope everyone can come!

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:12:55 AM EDT

[#29]

As a 10-year federal ban on assault weapons expires today, some Northern Nevada law officers questioned whether it had much effect.

“The horse has been out of the barn for a long time,” said Reno Acting Police Chief Jim Weston. “The access to these things is so easy that many more doors have to close than just this one. One piece of legislation is not going to keep serious weapons away from criminals.”

While Weston said he prefers the ban not to expire, he said the real impact, if any, is unknown.

“It’s a scary situation for police officers in Nevada when law-abiding citizens have a right to carry weapons,” he said. “But most of those people don’t have assault weapons. And criminals don’t have to buy these weapons, they just steal them, so it’s really hard to know the impact.” [How does he spell elitist? Must be a big fan of Hitler if he thinks a disarmed populace is a better protected on.]

But Sgt. Chuck Kendricks, who helps head the regional Street Enforcement Team, said drug dealers might be more aggressive in obtaining assault weapons after the ban has expired.

“Drug dealers work in an illegal atmosphere anyway and this is one less tool we have to govern and control them,” said Kendricks, whose team of undercover detectives conduct daily street drug and prostitution stings. “This ban will be detrimental to us and beneficial to them.

“We’ve already been planning on dealing with higher levels of dangerous weapons in the dealers’ hands as a result of this ban. As street crime enforcers, we are definitely concerned and are prepared,” Kendricks said.

Passed in 1994, the ban required domestic gun manufacturers to stop production of semiautomatic assault weapons and ammunition magazines holding more than 10 rounds except for military or police use. Semiautomatic assault weapons are designed to fire at a rapid rate. Large ammunition magazines can allow 50 or more bullets to be fired without reloading.

But assault weapons made before 1994 always have been available to criminals, police said.

Reno police Lt. Ron Donnelly said pre-ban weapons and illegal ammunition have been available, even on the Internet, just more expensive.

“On the street, there were so many guns out there in circulation even before the ban that the market never dried up and there was a surplus of magazines,” Donnelly said. “This ban isn’t going to impact us or drive up the crime rate because the access never went away. The potential is always there and anytime law enforcement deals with someone armed with these weapons it is a tense situation.” [Especially for Mayberry-type PD's still carryin rvolvers as their sidearms... ]

Federal agents working undercover at gun shows in Nevada for the past year arrested 14 suspects in May on a variety of charges that included illegally possessing machine guns and explosives. The undercover agents purchased nearly 40 illegal assault weapons using different Reno gun shows as the “hub of activity,” authorities said. The operation was part of a nationwide effort aimed at targeting people who use gun shows to traffic illegal firearms. Only licensed dealers can sell firearms at gun shows and can sell directly to people only from within the same state. [Another fine example of the few fucking it up for the many...]

According to the International Association of Chiefs of Police, one in five law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty between Jan. 1, 1998, and Dec. 31, 2001, were killed with assault weapons, including a Reno officer. [Let's see that statistic... and how many of those fatalities were training accidents or cases where the LEO wasn't identified as one until he/she was on the lab?]

On Aug. 22, 2001, Officer John Bohach was killed in the first few minutes of a five-hour standoff with a man who fled from a traffic stop to his house on Vassar Street. Larry James Peck, a convicted felon prohibited from possessing a firearm, engaged police in a massive gunbattle and used several assault rifles and shotguns.

One bullet Peck fired — an armor-piercing bullet — penetrated the hood and engine compartment of a delivery van and then struck the 13-year police veteran in the chest. The 35-year-old husband and father of two died at the scene. [Nice how they make it sounds like the bullet wne through the engine...]

“Assault weapons are made for one reason, and that’s to kill people. They are the ultimate weapon,” said Commander Ken Lightfoot of the Sparks police. “The other side to this is respecting people’s rights to bear arms. If the ban expires it will be easier for criminals to access them.” [How so? The laws that prohibit criminals from owning ANY firearms will still be in effect? Te availability wil be in legitimate places of sales where all the background checks and paperwork is done.]

Peck, who was described as a “cop hater” and “anti-government,” is serving two life sentences for killing Bohach.

Trooper Chuck Allen, Nevada Highway Patrol spokesman, said from a law-enforcement standpoint, weapons aren’t always the danger.

“It’s not the weapon, it’s the person pulling the trigger who is the threat to us,” Allen said. “From an officer safety viewpoint, motorists don’t have to have an assault weapon to pose a deadly threat to us on the highway during our contacts. They could be armed with a knife or small caliber pistol.”

In order for any citizen to purchase a firearm they must pass a background check.

“Someone with criminal intentions or a convicted felon will probably find a way to acquire a firearm anyway,” Allen said. “As troopers, we make numerous traffic stops everyday not knowing the mental status or intentions of the people we pull over.”

[At least this one ended with some rational train of thought...]

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:13:35 AM EDT

[#30]

Link

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:20:34 AM EDT

[#31]

You betteer get what you want, because some idiot politician chief of police on TV makes it sound like this is the beginning of the apocalypse, and street crime is going to go up 1000%! You're going to need some decent hardware to protect yourself from all the bayonet lugs and conspicuous hand grips.

Posted: 9/13/2004 2:51:46 PM EDT

[#32]

No kidding... I'm expecting to walk out my door tomorrow and find guns all over the streets... as if it rained assault weapons instead of frogs. And all the neighborhood kids will be running through them, splashing and a' frolicking without a care in the world for all the drug dealers and criminals who are loading them at the same in some ghetto. I'm probably not going to sleep tonight... just sit in my rocker on my poach with my Bushie across my lap... because that's what us crazy gun folk do.

Madness... it never stops.

Posted: 9/14/2004 4:56:13 AM EDT

[#33]

Our new holiday is official... for how long is up in the air.

After som thought I realized it's not really something we should be celebrating as a victory since it was our right to begin with... It would be like celebrating the day prohibition ended. If anything it's a display of how the man should stay out of our daily lives a little more.

But... Happy AWB-Sunset Day anyway!!

My clueless-ass wife obviously didn't understandjust homuch i was looking forward to this day and therefore ignored my hints to buy me a new collapsing stock as a present to celebrate.

Here are some of todays articles.

Assault Weapon Ban Lifted Link
Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version

A federal Ban on assault weapons has now expired. The ban has been in place for the past decade. It expired at midnight Monday.
Now, certain semi-automatic weapons can be purchased and large capacity ammunition clips.
The controversial issue has made it's way quickly to the Presidential campaign trial.
Locally, Huntsville police chief Compton Owens supports the ban lift...he says the public has a right to bear arms.
The owners and managers of local gun shops that we called would not comment on the issue.

Assault weapon ban ends to little effect Link (*thereis also a cool little picture at the bottom but I can't link it through because it's a macromedia thing)
Jorma Duran
Posted on: Monday, September 13, 2004

LEE COUNTY— The ten-year federal ban on assault weapons expired at midnight on Tuesday. Gun shop owners and activists say the expiration of the ban will have little effect because the ban only restricted certain features of a firearm, not assault weapons entirely.

What is an assault weapon?

Gun repair shop owner Donald Quinnell says the expiration of the ban will have little effect. The ban only affected cosmetic features such as a flash hider, folding stock or bayonet lug.

Quinnell says those additions don't mean much.

"The features of a gun are not what you fear, when somebody points a gun at you. You don't have to go: 'Does it have a folding stock? Oh my God!' You look at it because it's a gun," said Quinnell.

One feature that is now allowed includes bigger magazines, something police chiefs around the nation do not want.

"Unless Congress acts, the firearms of choice for terrorists, drug dealers, gang members, and thugs will be back on our streets, where once again our officers will be outgunned by criminals," said Chief Joe Polisar of Garden Grove, California.

Quinnell says people have legally bought assault because they've just been modified in the past 10 years to not include the banned features.

That's Quinnell says the ban's expiration won't mean a thing.

"That's a sporting firearm under the law, so if we buy this today and I thread the end of the barrel to put a bayonette lug on it, are you going to feel more safe, or less safe? It's still in the guy's hand. If he's a criminal he's going to shoot you with it no matter what he has on it," said Quinnell.

Representatives from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the Lee County Sheriff's Office, and the Cape Coral Police Department declined to comment on the assault weapons ban expiration, saying it was a federal rule and not something they have control over.

The expiration of the ban has no impact on the Brady Law. It does not mean the end of federal background checks.

Assault weapon ban ends; no action taken Link
By Jen Winberry
Collegian Staff Writer
The 10-year federal ban on the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons expired yesterday, allowing gun stores across the country to begin selling the 19 different types of military-style assault weapons that had previously been banned.

Passed as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 under former President Bill Clinton, the ban aimed to remove the weapons favored among drug dealers, gang members and other dangerous criminals.

The State College Police Department supported the ban when it was enacted, and Police Chief Tom King said it would support another similar ban if proposed.

"Our department, through the state police association, has written in support to continue and renew the duration of the ban to ensure that those weapons that were banned in '94 are continued to be banned," he said.

While King said the assault weapons listed were never a large problem in the State College area, it is important to keep them off the streets.

"Incidents involving these weapons could occur [in State College], but the ban was nationwide, and across the nation, the ban has been well served," he said. "Violent crime rates have gone down across the country. The ban has been a good thing and there have not been any negative consequences because of it."

The ban targeted modified AK-47s, Uzis and TEC-9s specifically by name rather than by feature or capability.

Thomas Ulmer, owner of Ulmer's Gunsmithing in Centre Hall, said the legislation was deceptive and did not have anything to do with assault weapons.

"The guns that are on that list are not assault weapons; they are semi-automatics," he said. "The difference between an assault weapon and a semi-automatic is that a semi-automatic fires one round per pull of the trigger. An assault weapon continues to fire as long as you hold down the trigger, or until the magazine is empty."

Ulmer said because of the technicalities in the names and types of guns prohibited, the ban was useless legislation.

Since its inception, critics have argued the effectiveness of such a ban.

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., is among the critics, and said studies conducted over the past decade conclude the ban does not deter crime.

"The studies, which have been conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice, have shown there is no evidence that the assault ban works," he said in a written statement. "It may feel good if you have a ban on assault weapons, but the evidence does not show any real effect by it."

U.S. Rep. John Peterson, R-Pa., said further studies should be done before any decisions are made concerning another ban.

"Congress should not renew the ban simply as a knee-jerk reaction," he said in a written statement. "But [it] should take a serious look at whether it has had any positive impact on preventing gun-related crime."

The National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed to control ownership of machine guns and their manufacture for the civilian market was halted in 1986. However, semi-automatic versions of those same guns were still being produced until the federal assault weapons ban was enacted.

Ulmer said the 1934 act regulated true assault weapons and any new legislation would not be effective in deterring crime with those types of guns.

"Criminals don't care; they will get ahold of the weapons either way," he said.

The assault weapons ban, originally enacted for a period of 10 years, could have been re-authorized before its expiration by Congress if needed, although it was not.

Assault Weapon Ban Expires Link

By Ben Deci

It was closer to sun-rise when the assault weapon ban sunset here in Alaska. The ban was lifted today. It limited some features on semi-automatic rifles. And it was a law with critics on both sides of the gun control debate- who said the prohibited features were mostly cosmetic. Still, others say that now the ban has been lifted, our state is a more dangerous place to be.
Ten years ago that the so-called assault weapon ban first took effect. Gun manufacturers saw it coming, they flooded the market with rifles bearing the banned features just before the law took effect. Now those gun makers can pick up where they left off, producing parts that- for a decade have been off limits.

The changes haven't gone unnoticed here in Alaska.

"I've been getting plaster with questions all day on this," said Troy McDade of Gun Runner's in Anchorage.

This law shot down a couple common features on pre-1994 rifles. For one, flash guards were not longer allowed. Neither were bayonet mounts. And a rifle's stock had to be fixed, it could no longer fold.

But perhaps the most significant change was in the magazine that holds the ammunition. After the ban, those magazines could only hold up to ten bullets. Larger magazines were reserved ..

"Magazines manufactured after that date would be law enforcement marked. And those could only be sold to law enforcement personnel with a signed letter head from the chief of their respective police department," said McDade.

According to Anchorage Police Chief Walt Monegan "If we make more weapons available then we also increase the chances that those types of weapons will make their way onto the streets ..."

As important as what's prohibited by the law is what wasn't. None of the guns now legal are automatic- that means you still have to pull the trigger for every shot. That doesn't change. Neither does the requirement that gun dealers do back-ground checks on people buying weapons.

According to McDade, even before the ban expired- you could buy weapons with the banned features on the used rifle market.

"Anything that was manufactured before the banned date was grand-fathered, and those are legally sold and purchased," he said.

Now it's legal for gun smiths to make new weapons with those old features. The law banned 19 specific, semi-automatic weapons because they had the illegal features. There is still a 1989 federal law banning the import of A-K 47s and Uzis- 2 among those 19 rifles. And four states, California, Hawaii, Massachusetts, and New York, still have their own laws banning those features.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Official AR15 AWB / "Sunset" Thread

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