First off after 5 years of marraige the wife and I still don't agree on much anything political.  She is a Democrat born of a family of Democrats that idolizes JFK (did some good things) and in some cases worshiped Clinton while he was in office .  She comes from a strong union family that for whatever reason believes that the evil Republicans shut down all the mills and threw her family to the dogs (untrue).  

So when we started dating we had a lot in common, just not politics.  We avoided the subject or had brief discussions because we both knew that arguing over politics was worthless.  We looked though our political beliefs for the most part in order to have a good relationship.  Of course we are both slowly trying ot convert each other.....

One of the Mrs's misconceptions of the right involved(s) firearms.  She had a strange fear of them that I could not understand.  Over time that changed and after shooting with me for years she went and took some instructional classes, bought a pistol, and got her CCW permit.  Now let's fast forward to two days ago.  We were riding back from shopping when she saw a huge (and I mean huge) Bush/Cheney sign in this one guy's front yard.  She shook her head.  

Me: What's wrong
Her: That sign, why would anyone put that in their yard?
Me: So you're saying that you still don't support Bush yet?
Her: of course not, I don't like him
Me: Why?  Don't tell me you like Kerry simply because he "isn't Bush."
Her: No, but Bush doesn't seem to represent a lot of issues that are important to me.
Me: OK, what issues?
Her: Well doesn't Kerry represent anything to you?  (notice she answered my question by asking me a question) Doesn't he stand for something?
Me: Yeah, the renewal of the SAW ban.  Its the only damn thing he came to vote on this year.  That told me more than enough about the guy.  
Her: Why are assault weapons so important to you?  Kerry is trying to help people with feelings (there's my damn answer).  Bush doesn't care about feelings.  
Me: The SAW ban was worthless, uneffective, and really not important to stopping crime, which of course was why it was passed.  
Her: Yeah but what can you do with AW's anyway?  You can't hunt with them (sick of hearing that here in PA!) and you can't carry it on you to protect yourself (oh honey, if you only knew!).  Pistols are fine because I see their purpose.
Me: So because you don't understand their use you think they are unnecessary?  What about the post and preban SAW in the safe in our house?
Her: We have SAW?
Me: yeah, you've shot them.  You liked them.  
Her: Well Bush doesn't support people's rights like gay marraige...
Me: OJNTSA

On on it went.  It don't think I convinced her of much other than that we have SAW.  The conversation went on to the point that she was visibly frustrated.  Later that day she said that I didn't discuss, I debated.  I guess I never realized that when politics came up I argued for a win.  She spoke to "discuss" her feelings on certain issues and I argued to tell her how and why they were wrong.  I guess I need to smooth over my presentation in order to keep things friendly.  

I'm shocked.

I can't stand to be around people with other political views than mine.  Much less marry one.

Quoted: Me: What's wrong Her: That sign, why would anyone put that in their yard? Me: So you're saying that you still don't support Bush yet? Her: of course not, I don't like him Me: Why?  Don't tell me you like Kerry simply because he "isn't Bush." Her: No, but Bush doesn't seem to represent a lot of issues that are important to me. Me: OK, what issues? Her: Well doesn't Kerry represent anything to you?  (notice she answered my question by asking me a question) Doesn't he stand for something?

That's where you screwed up right there.  Never let anyone answer a question with another question in a discussion.  What she was avoiding saying was "I don't really have any issues, I'm just a brainwashed Democrat who doesn't want to think about it."  She doesn't like Bush because he's not a Democrat.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: I'm shocked. I can't stand to be around people with other political views than mine.  Much less marry one.

I'd be pissed everyday of my life if i had to come home to that crap.

also, it would be a bummer to know that your wife just canceled out your vote.

Remember here in Kali-fornia, Arnie is married to very famous Dem, Maria Shriver.

Sounds like my mother in law....we got into it once and I pressed her to tell me exactly what Clinton did that helped the economy...she had no answer for that.

She voted for Gore because she..."Wanted 4 more years of prosperity..." I came unglued at that point. At least her husband voted Bush to cancel her vote......

SAW Ban = Stupid Assault Weapons Ban?

My wife is the same way, except she pro-baby murder.
But kerry shoots-so what, only shotguns.
Bush is stupid-No he's not. he's just inarticulate. Big difference.
Bush was AWOL-I don't buy it. In the 1960's if you were AWOL fromt he Guard they activiated your ass.
and on and on....after we saw Farenheit 911 (I bought tix to Spiderman as i'm not lining Moores pockets) she was begging me not to vote for Bush. I told her that if I fit enough to go I'd be in Iraq right now with my friends. She was a little freaked out by that.

I wil never, ever, marry another women who doesn't share my politics. Never.

SAW=Semiautomatic Assault Weapon.  Real assault weapons are select fire, the ones that were banned were not true assault weapons.   As I see it the NFA of 1934 banned real assault weapons before they even existed.  I figured someone would ask about that.  

Our marraige has been good its just that every 4 years when the prez election comes up she gets on fired up to get her candidtate into the pres. office.  I am slowly debunking her lifelong brainwashing by her family who as I mentioned before is Democrat because everyone else is.  If they could put an honest logical thought together regarding why they are Democrat maybe I'd listen to them.  Her family shudders when the topic of politics comes up around me because I have a tendancy to overrun them with logic and reason while their thoughts are based off of feelings alone.  

We have a lot of common beliefs, there are just a few issues that I don't agree with her about and the gun thing is her holdout (as in if you believe in my thoughts then I'll believe in your guns).  I know for sure that her votes have pretty much cancelled out my votes in every election since we've been together.  She didn't like Gore in 2000 but was almost afraid to tell her family that she didn't support him.  

Her family has been a thorn in my side regarding other issues for a while but I knew that when I was dating her.   My choice=my pain.

I converted my wife after one year of marriage she is switching from dem to Rep

If I was in one of those situations I would be divorced, actually I never would have gotten married.

Quoted: If I was in one of those situations I would be divorced, actually I never would have gotten married.

Before we got married it was like wgjhsafT's marriage-you respect my beliefs and I'll not taunt her idiotic beliefs. But it's been downhill the last 7 years (after our first son was born she was replaced with her evil twin).

Quoted: actually I never would have gotten married.

agreed, i can't imagine dating, let alone marrying a democrat

I have been using this argument with some success at work.

"I don't care about anything but terrorism right now.  If we lose the war on terror, it is all over.  You won't have to debate abortion, taxes, healthcare, etc...  I will give up all those things right now, because the country will still exist to fix them 10 years from now.  If we step away from the war on terror, it will come here.  A nuclear device of some sort, or a biological weapon will likely kill 1000's and destroy our economy.  The nation will stumble.  What if they took over a school and killed hundreds of children?  We cannot show weakness to a bully.  Remember in high school?  Rmemeber how you treated bullies?  If you show weakness, they are emboldened.  If you stand up to them, they go away."

This marriage is doomed to failure.


Sgtar15

My advice...get over it. Surely you two agreed on something in the first place.....just don't discuss politics any more than you have to.

I forgot to mention.
Seeing as you are from PA and the mills, I can relate.
My wife came from Youngstown.
Teamster daughter.
Didn't like guns.
Didn't like Republicans.

She has completely turned around within past 5 years. (been married 6)
She has a W'04 sticker on her car, and owns guns.
She became a conservative quite a while ago.  The guns came later...

i see you're in PA, don't let her vote!

Quoted: i see you're in PA, don't let her vote!

Good point.  Do absentee ballot yourself, and then have a "medical emergency" requiring her to take you to the emergency room or something.  Come on, take one for the team.

Quoted: i see you're in PA, don't let her vote!

You've got a lot to learn.

+1 for I can't stand to be around liberals....marrying one seems like VOLUNTEERING to go to hell

THat's what you get when you marry them for their tits

Quoted: THat's what you get when you marry them for their tits

no joke... you gotta look for boobs and brains.  MarianLibrarian, for instance...

You know, it's funny...my wife and I NEVER discussed politics while we were dating.  Never talked about them at all until after we were engaged.  Yet we share basically the same politics, have since day one.  Lucky, I guess.

At least you'll offset her Kerry vote with your vote.

my wife is a closet dem

she thinks (like her mom) that bush is bad.

But, not only does she not know where the polling booth is, (and I ain't tellin, damn thing took me an hour to find), she is not even registered to vote.

So she can talk her dumb politics all she wants, he opinion means naught.  She don't vote.

TXL

Quoted: This marriage is doomed to failure. Sgtar15

I wouldn't say it is since I'm in it.  She's changed a lot of her views in recent years and honestly there wasn't even an issue while we were dating.  It became clear during the 2000 election that we had our differences.  I would relate most of her views to those of many soccer moms out there: they are based off of feelings and not logic.  When I break things down to her she seems to understand.  I'm not trying to FORCE her to change, only through superior knowledge and her own will can she move right.

Originally Posted by Stoney-Point She voted for Gore because she..."Wanted 4 more years of prosperity..

Kind of the same argument my Mrs. said.  She was politically ignorant until she met me.  Politics was really something she didn't pay attention to until someone told her to.  

Already took care of my absentee ballot (waiting for it to come).  I travel quite a bit so I probably won't be home on election day anyway.  

I didn't marry her for her tits, I married for many reasons just like many members on the board have married their signifcant others.  As I mentioned our differences regarding some political issues didn't come out until 2000.  Her fear of guns came from the fact that she was robbed and pistol whipped while in high school.  It doesn't help that her whole family is paranoid about being robbed/raped/killed but they live in the ghetto and don't understand why they are scared.  

I know the feeling well! My S/O can't stand Bush (or basically any other conservative for that matter). S/O thinks we should just leave terrorist countries alone and 'mind our own business'. hing

maybe it's just me, but:
"No, but Bush doesn't seem to represent a lot of issues that are important to me."
==
"Anybody but Bush"

It's funny....but I've found so few people out there with legitimate reasons for voting for Kerry...

Quoted: maybe it's just me, but: "No, but Bush doesn't seem to represent a lot of issues that are important to me." == "Anybody but Bush" It's funny....but I've found so few people out there with legitimate reasons for voting for Kerry...

I haven't either.  If my Mrs's family is a good testing ground for things like this then I could do quite a bit of reporting.  When I asked her screwy ex-nam uncle about why he liked Kerry he spouted off some stuff he "heard down at the VA hospital, so I know that these guys wouldn't lie to me."  

Her mother wants someone with JFK back in the office.  Her sister is hopeless, as is her husband.  Her brother isn't so bad but his wife is saying pretty much "as long as its not Bush."  When you press her to see why Bush is so bad (they hate this too because they have to THINK) their response goes to another topic or some Michael Moore BS.  There is no legitamite reason I have heard yet as to why Bush is so bad and why Kerry should be the next president.  When they get into details about specific topics I easily shut them down.  They just like to see the (D) in front of the position whether its Kerry or some guy off the street.  There is no logic or thought process, its letter association.

Quoted: Quoted: If I was in one of those situations I would be divorced, actually I never would have gotten married. Before we got married it was like wgjhsafT's marriage-you respect my beliefs and I'll not taunt her idiotic beliefs. But it's been downhill the last 7 years (after our first son was born she was replaced with her evil twin).

Did show grow a goatee?  

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

I remember one girl I was seeing years back, somehow the question of the lottery came up - "what would you do if you won the lottery?" I asked. "I would give a lot of it to GreenPeace" she replied. the relationship deteriorated from there on out...

I was in a similar situation, except the guns, with my wife. Guess what, she's voting Bush this year. If you can't wipe them out, breed them out.

Quoted: This marriage is doomed to failure.

If Mary Matalin and James Carville can have a successful marriage, ANYTHING is possible.  Those two crack me up



Did I mention my fiancee went to a Kerry fundraiser a while ago

Quoted: Quoted: This marriage is doomed to failure. If Mary Matalin and James Carville can have a successful marriage, ANYTHING is possible.  Those two crack me up Did I mention my fiancee went to a Kerry fundraiser a while ago

Now if the Mrs. did that there would be some problems.......Now if she did it for Bush I might look the other way.

Quoted: Quoted: This marriage is doomed to failure. If Mary Matalin and James Carville can have a successful marriage, ANYTHING is possible.  Those two crack me up Did I mention my fiancee went to a Kerry fundraiser a while ago

There's something there you aren't seeing.  I'd slam my dick in a door before hanging around, let alone marrying, a chick who = Carville.

Quoted: Bush doesn't care about feelings.

Feelings? I don't give a fuck about feelings. I care about rational thought, crushing terrorists, and liberty. <Sigh>

How did this conversation even start?  From now on, STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN!

Quoted: Quoted: Bush doesn't care about feelings. Feelings? I don't give a fuck about feelings. I care about rational thought, crushing terrorists, and liberty. <Sigh>

QUOTABLE!

Quoted: Quoted: Bush doesn't care about feelings. Feelings? I don't give a fuck about feelings. I care about rational thought, crushing terrorists, and liberty. <Sigh>

Tell us how you really feel  

Quoted: Your buddy Bush supports the renewal of the AW ban also, the only thing stopping it is the House of Rep. Plus with Bush you get an illegal mexican under every porch. Alas I will pinch my nose and Vote Bush

So true.  He stated it before and said it again, that he would sign the AW ban if it hit his desk.  The Mexican issue is one that I'm sure no one will want to touch until we have exploding Mexican kids like the Israeli's have exploding Palestinian kids.  The Democrats fear losing voters as do the Republicans and since the largest minority in the country is now of "Latin Decent" pissing off Mexicans legal or illegal is a bad political move.  While many of us here see a solution to a problem (by sealing off the bordrers) politics and therefore politicians see a loss of votes, support, and I'm sure negative press coverage.  

I can't say I've liked all of Bush's moves and in many cases he hasn't been conservative enough for me, but would you want Kerry?

Quoted: How did this conversation even start?  From now on, STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN!

It started when she saw a HUGE Bush/Cheney sign in some guy's yard while we were on our way home from The Home Depot.  She made a comment about Bush/Cheney and I couldn't help but say what was wrong with them.  Its not often we have conversations regarding the world of politics.  

Let's not even get into religion.  We're Catholic, send our daughter to Catholic school, and are regular church goers.  Yet she supports a party that seems to hate everything to do not only with Catholicism but just about any religion (especially Christianity).  

It's funny that you mention "they don't have an answer" for supporting Kerry.
I had a similar discussion yesterday with a girl at work.
Long story short, she mentioned that she wasn't going to vote at all.
I asked why not?
Now this is the part I didn't expect to hear.
"I'm not very well informed about either person, so I'd just be guessing anyway."
I told her she could easily get informed by reading, looking, questioning, etc.
She just doesn't care enough about "politics" to bother.
I tried to explain that it isn't about politics, it's about what YOU want for the next 4 years.

Anyway, again long story short, she said if she did vote it would most likely be democrat.
I asked why and she said "I don't know, I voted democrat last time."

Well, hell there's a good reason!
I told her it was a good idea in her case NOT to vote.

I know its been said a hundred times before but "I won't veto it" does not equal "I support the ban"
had he ended up sighning it I would still, probably, have voted for him.  If he had made any effort to get the ban renewed I would have worked hard against him.  Probably voting Libetarian.

As far as the immigration thing...I don't know as much about it as I should.  We have a lot of new (Latin American) immigrants to our area.  To my personal experiance they are hard working family oriented folks.  There were two sets of non english speeking parents at my schools open house this semester, %100 of them.  I wish I could say that for other ethnic groups.  I know my personal experience makes a poor statistical sample.  I think if people want to come here and work we should reward them, we should give them rights, and we should tax them the way that we are taxed.  We are allready giving welfare to them, social security etc how is what Bush has proposed going to make things worse.  I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand.

On voter apathy: I know people, conservative gun owners, that don't even register to vote so they won't get picked for jury duty.  Pisses me the heck off.  I wish jury duty was tied to drivers licenses or something.  I get called once or twice a year.