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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:15:19 PM EDT
Why does he call 5.56 a mouse-gun round and the M16 a poodle shooter?
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:16:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Because he is a rifleman in the classic sense.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:18:04 PM EDT
[#2]
He likes big rounds.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:19:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Because he's old.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:21:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Probably because the dust clouds he farts are bigger than .223
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:21:14 PM EDT
[#5]
because he is a rifleman.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:22:17 PM EDT
[#6]
If it is not a 308, 30-06, or 45 acp, Cooper is not interested and discourages the use of others not listed here.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:24:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Except for the rounds that he was part of developing... which do not appear on that list 
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:25:58 PM EDT
[#8]
agreed 
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:26:41 PM EDT
[#9]
He likes big rounds, and he cannot lie, that you other brothers can't deny, that when a girl walks in wit an itty bitty waist and a .308 in your face, you get sprung..... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:27:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Damn, it's been a long time since I read it, but wasn't he behind the Bren-Ten pistol? |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:28:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Yep! |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:28:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Senility.
As evidenced by the use of the English "we" all the fucking time. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:31:52 PM EDT
[#13]
as one not so old trainer said: ".223 is bitchin' at pistol fight ranges."
Im always willing to learn from someone who practices the art of the rifle. Someday I may need that knowledge. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:32:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Yep. Same reason he thinks .45acp is the only worthwhile pistol round. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:00:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Cooper's looking to kill what he shoots, not poke holes. Big holes up the odds of trauma.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:03:42 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm not all that found of it either. I want an AR in 7.62x39mm caliber. Hell, that right there is the best caliber ever laid to barrel..............
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:07:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Cuz he's an old Goat.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:11:15 PM EDT
[#18]
If the .223 is such an ass killer, I guess the military is screwing up going to the 6.8mm then, eh?
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:16:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Because he measures the effectiveness of a rifle by it's kick, and the size of the round.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:17:22 PM EDT
[#20]
drill sergant told me 5.56 wasn't designed to kill . it was designed to wound. hit one and another has to give medical aid. thats 2 tangos out of the fight
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:24:30 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:26:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Yes and we all know the new way of things is so much better. Old things work best because they are tried and true -- new things are used just for a change, or because they are lighter (big deal) anyway give me the tried and proven every time. .223 is good for far shots your target will bleed out before he can hurt you at up close ranges it zips through you like a laser beam - your dead , but you have a few minutes to inflict mayhem before you expire. The 308 rules, where the 223 is ok for long distance only -- no matter what lumpy's instructor said. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:46:22 PM EDT
[#23]
He has his biases. At his age and with his experience he's entitled. I took a course at Gunsite while he was still there, a very opinionated man. But we're all Americans, it's our birthright to have opinions.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:54:12 PM EDT
[#24]
well noted whilst in Iraq it frusturated me to have to put 3-4 even five hole in the rag head before he quit advancing |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:00:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Because all he has to carry is a Beretta.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:05:27 PM EDT
[#26]
He likes BATTLE RIFLES !!!
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:05:59 PM EDT
[#27]
They're NOT going to 6.8mm 6.8mm is a 'Special Purpose Cartridge' for specifica applicaitons, not general issue... The future is heavier & longer, not wider... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:07:32 PM EDT
[#28]
I would bet Col. Cooper has more real life experience than 9/10ths of the loud mouth pricks bagging on him in this thread.
I dont agree with him on everything, but good Lord people. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:10:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Lump's a grump.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:11:40 PM EDT
[#30]
No, Lump just has respect for people that have earned it. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:13:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Col Cooper is a WW2 Marine Vet. M1 and the 1911 were his compat weapons. Big bullets will knock the BG's down and keep them down. Cooper has a place in firearms history I respect his opinions but they don't keep me from making judgments based on my own experience.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:14:56 PM EDT
[#33]
It should be noted that (a) .223 has a MUCh higher wounding & killing potential than 'The Obselect Communist Caliber' (7.62x39) deployed by 'Most 3rd World Countries'... If size is all that matters, how 'come the Russians chose an EVEN SMALLER round for the AK74(5.45x39)???? 7.62x39 might as well be 30-30... 7.62x51 (.308) is a good sniper & GPMG round, but is poorly suited as a general-issue cartridge, which is why it hasn't been used as such since the early days of Vietnam. It was also our SHORTEST LIVED general-issue cartridge. At ranges where .223 will zip right thru w/o fragmentation, .308 is going to do THE EXACT SAME THING, and the extra 0.085" of hole isn't gonna make a whit of difference... No round is a magic 'down-now' weapon except maybe .25mm short... A target that took 5 rds of .223 may very well take 5 rds of 7.62x51... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:16:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Col. Cooper is often incredibly insightful. His observations about human behavior, are often dead on. I think his personal biases about weapons, 1911 good, Glock = plastic = bad, etc. Aren't as always as insightful. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:18:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Yeah no one was ever wounded, and continued to fight in WW-I, WW-II, everyone that was shot was killed instantly............   
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:21:33 PM EDT
[#36]
I guess you would have to ask Col. Cooper...with out wetting yourselves in the presence of a real Man.
MT |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:27:24 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm sticking to Grump, I was joking anyway. Any inflamatory, disruptive remark to stir the fires of controversy... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:31:01 PM EDT
[#38]
He also told you that koren whores had slanted pussys, just like their eyes. You figured out that was a lie, didn't you? |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:32:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Cooper doesn't dislike the Glock because it is plastic. He dislikes it because he prefers the crisp 1911 trigger. Cooper once wrote with approval of the Styre AUG's plastic lockwork--from a durability perspective. He didn't care that much for it with respect to the AUG's crispness. The current knowledge of 5.56 mm fragmentation as a wounding mechinism dates to the late 80s. By then, Cooper had already decided 5.56 was a dud. If all 5.56 had the wounding potential of Wolf 5.56, he would be right. Maybe, if Cooper read up on his Fackler, he would change his mind. Maybe someone with a contact could send him some catch-up reading on it. Cooper might be old, but by my reading he isn't all that conventional. He could probably be persuaded by the right argument. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:41:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Fackler 
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:41:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Simple way to end the "5.56 is a pussy round" argument is to ask the opposer if he would like to be shot with that round, since the hole will be soo tiny, precise and clean as a pin hole, little dammage could occur right?
Bandaid would fix that up quick, right? |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:43:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Non of this would matter if GI's could use soft or hollow points
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:43:28 PM EDT
[#43]
.25mm?? That's a wee bit small...but damn...think of all the ammo you could carry. What's the velocity like?
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:45:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Actually no, if you read his Bio he was on a ship's detachment during WWII, from what I have been told (never read for myself) his combat experience with small arms came while serving in "Clandestine Capacity" on "secret missions." These missions occured while the rest of the Marine Corps was in Korea. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:48:09 PM EDT
[#45]
It is a military urban legend, the requirement doc the SHVC stated "equal, if not greater lethality" than the calibers of the day out to 400 yards. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Col. Cooper was on of the main inventors of the 10mm Round and the Bren 10 so his interests are more then just the 3 ctgs. that you listed. He also came up with the Scout Rifle concept and his pet round for his Scout Rifle is .376 Steyr. I like the "ol' fart", he a hell of a man in the same vein as Elmer Keith, not many like him left around to share their wisdom with us. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:48:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Well, I for one am not standing still to be shot by a BB gun or stabed by a hat pin. But that doesn't mean I want to rely upon either as a means of defense. So what I'm saying is--your argument sucks. 5.56 works well up close due to bullet fragmintation, resulting in wounds larger than those produced by many larger bullets. But when 5.56 fails to fragment, it is a poor choice for stopping a determined foe. Under some citcumstances, small holes in the bad guys are just fine. At long range, IMO, even a small hole will make all the difference. In fact, Cooper once theorized on the use of .22 rimfire short range sniper rifles for taking out agitators in demonstrations or riots. He also though the AUG would be a fine "boat gun", for hosing down pirates on the high seas (i.e., for short range boat exchanges). |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:50:52 PM EDT
[#48]
I saw guys get hit by about every weapon in our arsenal while in Iraq, unless it contained HE I wouldn't say that even the larger calibers were that much more effective. That including one guy who took a 50 hit and continued to fight. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:54:02 PM EDT
[#49]
He shot two Japanese with his pistol(s) during WW2, and an insurgent with a pistol during Korea. All three men he killed he killed with .45 pistols. Although I think the first was with a Colt SAA revolver, the second two with 1911s. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:58:21 PM EDT
[#50]
I agree, sometime too much power is just as bad as too little. There is a fine balance between enough energy to get the bullet into the target and having too much and sending it out the back to waste energy or having too little and not reaching the vitals. Most of the time a determined person will keep fighting even with deadly hits because it's not felt right away. I've heard of deer having their hearts blown out that have ran 100 yards before they drop. Adrenalin and will are sometimes more powerful then bullets. |
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