User Panel
Posted: 8/30/2004 12:15:28 AM EDT
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.
The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co. They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools. The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever. All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions. The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots. They are very close-knit. Do any of these things raise concerns with you? Are they leaning toward cultish behavior? This is not some Patriot anti-govt nest I stumbled onto is it? Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating. |
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?? |
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You had to be here bud |
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These questions are mainly for the Christians on the board. A while back I posted about visiting various churches.
I really like this one, but I don't want to get involved with something I'll regret later. My biggest concern is that they are self-isolating from the rest of society. It's like I step into another world. |
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I took a break from the site, and from you. Besides, Pre-Ban has cooler folks, like Imbroglio and C-rock. |
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All of those things concern me. I have no problem with them being followers of God, but it sounds like they are a little to sheltered. Why fear the truth?
SGatr15 |
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I visited one of those once. All the male members wore black and the women dressed in long dresses and wore hats. The men sat on one side away from the women. Pastor looked like the parson from poltergeist.
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The love of money... |
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I think that ANY organization that operates like the church you described is a little strange. The kids don't attend public schools, or even larger private schools, which limits their interactions with people that would disagree with the values that the church is trying to uhh.. "instill" in them. The mass moving thing is concerning too.
Having said that, remember that the people at waco, (after the dust settled) were PROVEN in a court of law of not being bad people. They weren't drug dealers, they had NO illegal weapons (none proven to be owned by the Branch Dividians) and were NOT abusing children. They were, however, taken to believing in a very intricate and peculiar dogma that alienated themselves from the rest of the world. It may well be that it was that very inabillity to communicate effectively with negotiators, along with the growing impatience and anger of the FBI, was what lead to them being killed. I respect anyones right to worship in their chosen faith, but don't put yourself in an intellectual prison to do it. |
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Please...don't let me run you off...I was just starting to like you.
Then again....... SGtar15 PS Kidding...stick the fuck around this time. Just stop searching for what already is insdie you. |
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Which one? Oh, you mean "The Village" - didn't see that one. Don't plan to. |
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Yes, they were indoctrinating their children in their value system all right, shielding them from the rest of the world. I have yet to ascertain if this doctrine is not too far out. |
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I got to put more effort into being an asshole. You missed all the excitment by the way. |
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Seriously, I avoid churches althogether. If I was somehow gonna subscribe to a particular theory, I'd probably be hesitant to join any church that isolates itself to this degree. Use caution.
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Good to see you back BTW, I missed your posts. They were always entertaining.
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Thanks. I have been a Pre-Ban regular lately. LivefreeordieNH was there when he was locked out of here. |
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bwwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!! |
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agreed. I once asked my priest how he felt about me going to other churches. He replied that the truth will always be the truth and that I should always search for it. SGatr15 |
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Anyway, considering my past, a close-knit, insular group has appeal to me right now.
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Try the Grape KoolAide....I here it is to die for..... SGtar15 |
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+1. Enjoy the punch. And don't forget, BYORS. ( Bring Your Own Rattle Snake) |
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Any situation in which one man sets himself up as the sole authority with no accountability has the potential to be dangerous. That's where some men who had good ministries went bad. They were at the top of their organizations with nobody that they answered to.
In my church there is balance in the leadership. The Bible speaks of the ministry gifts (pastors, teachers, evangelists, aposteles, and prophets). When you have a team with these various gifts there are accountability and order. For example, my pastor's main gift is prophetic (not like Jean Dixon- the prophets represented God to the people, bringing His word to them). If he says, "I believe God wants the church to do X", then an elder with a gift of teaching (really knowing the Word and understanding its application) will say, "Show me chapter and verse to back that up." Nothing run by men will be perfect, but the leadership in my church has taken measures to ensure a high degree of accountability. Back to the church you mentioned, from what you've written I'd probably not go back. It sounds like a situation that is very controlling. |
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Can you say UTAH? |
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Oh now that's funny. |
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Southern Baptist churches are usually independent & autonomous. I've been a member of one for 8 years now.
and the problem here is?????
That's terrible. Teaching your kids Christian values, and not letting them be indoctrinated by the liberal public school system! Gasp! They're probably Republicans to boot!
That's horrible... They consider themselves Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Wait a minute. That is what Christ told us to do...
I'd hit it. I like PIE! What's wrong with conservative dress?
SB preachers don't answer to deacons. Consult, yes. Church Council has more to do with the operation of the church than Deacons. Deacons are there to serve, not direct.
Most of them are. Shouldn't Churches be?
We believe that people in government who are put in power, are there because God allows it to happen. I can't speak for the church you're referring to, but mine is very patriotic. Not anti-*.gov but definately against governmental policies that conflict with Biblical teachings. We rarely discuss politics along party lines....more of a comparison of who's trying to accomplish what, and how it coincides or conflicts with the Bible. Republicans usually have an edge....albeit a little one.
Again. What is wrong with that? What are you afraid of? Water????? |
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Calling each other brother is nothing new, as the Apostles did it, and many churches still do. The whole church moving locations seems very strange to me. I have never seen an entire congregation pick up and move before. That is wierd. In most churches the pastor is indeed the leader, where the deacons act as a sort of governing council that backs the pastor. The pastor has ultimate authority, but the elders or deacons help in deciding various matters. In my church there is a district bishop above the pastor, and then a state bishop, and finally the council of 12 bishops, and then a bishop in charge of the entire denomination. Things get more democratic at the very top levels, but the local pastor has a lot of lattitude to operate in. Independent churches are all the rage, and usually happen when a preacher gets mad at a denomination that tries to bring him to account for some things. Some men are genuinely called to be independent, but many others do it because they want to be accountable to no one. Not being accountable to anyone is not a good idea. |
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With all of the abuses that are rampant in public schools these days, I cannot blame anyone for not wanting their children to suffer in that intellectual war zone. If you haven't had children in the publik schools lately, you really don't know how bad they are getting. Wanting your children to be taught in an environment where Christianity is not undermined constantly, and where actual discipline of children is possible without hysterical teachers calling social services is a perfectly normal thing to desire. There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from. |
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Can I get an "Amen" here???? |
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NO ONE is more agaisnt public schools than me, and I was educated in private Christian schools, but this sounds a bit cultish to me.
As does this.
The Bible indicates there SHOULD be both deacons and elders as so-called "assistant pastors." The pastor is NOT God's oracle, and a group of 300 people need more than ONE GUY to effectively minister to them.
Close knit is good. Reclusive or closed off from society is NOT good. While the Bible indicates Christians are not to be like the world, it DOES indicate we are to be IN the world - amongst them, not hiding in closed groups. Which is why I hang out with the reprobates here.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT to be hid from the world. Figger our just how isolated they are. |
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Why should any one be sheltered? |
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There are good reasons to shelter children from things until they are of age to deal with adult issues. Are you up for showing PRON to 10 year old kids? Why not? Sheltering is wrong? |
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I am a pastor and that situation sends up red flags all over the place.
Be careful. There are legalistic, spiritually abusive churches out there that can really shipwreck a person spiritually. Patsue |
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Protected and educated =yes. SHeltered=no Sooner or later they will have to face the real world. This Church sounds like it is controlling their members by not allowing ANY outside input. If they trust in their message then they should trust in their members. YMMV Sgtar15 |
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I guess everybody's does! |
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EXACTLY. Does what the church teaches jive with Scripture?? Well, said SGtar15. |
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BULLSHIT! RUN, FOREST! RUN! |
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And that's what you get when yu screw up the board code. That response was, ummmmm.... mine. |
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Sounds like you might have stumbled into a German Baptist Church. Some have confused them with Amish, Quaker, or Church of Friends.
A fine lot of people, in my experience. I think it dangerous to try to label them using our worldly, 21st Centry standards. They set their standards using the Bible. I think they have the right idea, especially when compared to what MTV, BET, and all the rest of our worldly crap would want us to be like. |
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To bad I didn't say it......... SGatr15 |
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LOL... |
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I was surprised SGtar15 said that.
I hereby remove my attaboy from SGtar15, and give it to A3kid. |
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This should be one of the prime deciding factors (above) I agree with Stokes, in that it sounds like a German Baptist congregation. (The sexes sitting on opposite sides of the aisle from one another, the dress, the "Brother" or "Sister" addressing...) This is actually interesting, in that I've run across references to some of my ancestors having gone to such a church while doing my family history, but I hadn't run across any churches today who still adhered to this.... The entire congregation up & moving sounds kind of strange. Can you find out where they moved from in CO? I have quite a few contacts out there who might be able to give me some insight into past dealings with this church. I can't say that I disagree with the church schooling their children themselves, as my daughter is in a private church school. But 100% isolation from the rest of society isn't necessarily a good thing either. In the end though, each person must decide how he or she wants to worship, so if you are comfortable with the way they do things, keep attending. Keep an open mind, but be cautious, as this does set off several 'uh-oh!' alarms at the same time. |
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Much obliged, Gman. |
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You been missing for about a year, it seems. Or maybe *** I ***** was missing for about a year or so. All's well, I trust?? |
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I've been around, reading more than posting. Things are going ok. Teenagers have given me a bit of rest lately. ::whew:: I was about out of hair to pull out for a while there.... What don't kill, maim or disfigure you makes you stronger. |
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