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Posted: 8/28/2004 3:45:00 AM EDT
[#1]
. . . . does this actually suprise anyone ?
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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:24:58 AM EDT
[#2]
isn't the first time. won't be the last. Sometimes i'd swear our allies spy on us more than our enemies.
mike |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:28:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Of course we do!…… but we all spy on the French! ECHELON is your English Speaking Spies friend
 ANdy |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:31:03 AM EDT
[#4]
I guess its better than an Iranian spy????
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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:50:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Count me as unsurprised.
This relationship is not an alliance, it's them taking whatever we'll give them, and giving nothing back in return. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:18:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Nothing to worry about here…
It's been reported here that he was passing US information about IRAN back to Israel…… "FBI probes Israeli spy at Pentagon claim 5.00PM, Sat Aug 28 2004 The FBI is investigating a Pentagon analyst suspected of being an Israeli spy, US government sources said. The analyst is suspected of passing secret documents about Iran to the Jewish state. The officials said the analyst was connected to Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's office and is suspected of passing the documents to Israel via the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the powerful pro-Israel lobby in Washington." This could be a good thing if Israel is looking for strategic data… say for a strike on Irans nuclear facilities? ANdy |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#7]
I would imagine that we have just as many 'spies' in Israel as they have here! We have 'spies' in every nation in which we have an Embassy, I would think. I would hope! Do you doubt that? Eric The(WelcomeToTheRealWorld)Hun 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:27:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Does anyone with at least two brain cells that they can rub together NOT think that the United States was involved, and knew about beforehand, of the 1981 Israeli Air Attack against Iraq's nuclear reactor at Osirak?
Sometimes, just sometimes, the United States allows other nations to handle the heavy lifting.... Eric The(Pro-Israeli)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:27:50 AM EDT
[#9]
NO. Its a bad thing. Israel has been influencing the US to do their fighting. Brilliant on their end. No Israeli blood spilled in Iraq, the guy who paid suicide bombers is gone and they get free oil. Absolutely Brilliant! Their next target is Iran. Has anyone here ever wondered why IRAQ was at the top of the list instead of NORTH KOREA? Lets not forget that North Korea continually threatenes to rain down missles on New York. They already have the missles to attack Japan and South Korea. And they are boasting that they have a nuke. YET THEY WERE NOT HIGH ENOUGH ON THE LIST. ????? WTF!!!! Thats because they were NO threat to Israel. Israel has been running US policy for a while. Traditional Republicans, like myself, are even staying clear of the NEOCONS. 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:29:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Allies. When will people learn the US has NO allies. Leeches and opportunists, maybe. But no allies. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:30:37 AM EDT
[#11]
<yawn>
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:35:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Um, how is the Israeli guy the problem here?? We have a traitorous prick working in the Pentagon passing our information to a foreign national. Was the Israeli guy supposed to refuse it?? Our stance regarding Iran GREATLY affects the future of Israel. Of COURSE they would want this information. The bastard who passed the information should be shot as a traitor. When/why did that go out of style??
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:36:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Post from garandman -
Sorry, garandman, but the biggest and most cutthroat enemies of the United States are not located in Israel. Or anywhere in the Middle East. But are homegrown Americans who would think nothing of ending this Republic in a heartbeat...if they could just get the votes to do it! So, I have more contempt and, dare I say, hatred, for the Schumer/Clinton/Boxer Wing of the DEMO Party than I have for Jonathan Pollard...for possibly even Saddam Hussein, himself! Eric The(ChoosingMyEnemiesCarefully)Hun |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:40:46 AM EDT
[#14]
Uhh, YES.....an "ally" would. And then he would report the leak to the Pentagon. A REAL ally would. An opportunist would do EXACTLY as Israel did.
Trule allies do things against their own interest sometimes - like removing Saddam from power, as the SINGLE largest and most immediate beneficiary of doing so is Israel. (which is not to say removing Saddam didn;t have long term benefits for the US - it did.) Takes two to tango. Shoot the Pentagon leak, shoot the Israeli spy. (this of course assumes this story has ANY legs at all. I'm talking hypothetically, should the story be proven true) I don't really care who gets shot first. If you don't have the balls to shoot the Israeli spy, I do. You take care of the Pentagon leak. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:42:03 AM EDT
[#15]
I never said they were. Reading is FUNdamental. Don't care to go down your rabbit trails or chase your diversions. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:46:19 AM EDT
[#16]
And I NEVER said you did! Reading IS Fundamental!
Good! Cause I spend too much time waiting for you to catch up! Eric The(FasterThanAFlyingJew-Boy)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:49:38 AM EDT
[#18]
I would expect that we would. Because we are giving them aid. It is our business to know what they are doing with it. Since they are the ones receiving the aid I would expect them to behave like they actually appreciate it. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:49:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Ritual -
Lemme introduce to you to Eric The Hun. NOW RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (he's about to make you his personal project.) |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:51:07 AM EDT
[#20]
  I gotts this here bridge, headed over to Brooklyn.... |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:51:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Loyalty to one's own country comes first. If intel is offered it will be accepted. Period. You are being horribly naive. 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:52:01 AM EDT
[#22]
I don't disagree with you, but you better batten down the hatches. The rabidly pro-isreal faction of this board is going to jump on you with both feet. 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:54:32 AM EDT
[#23]
sorry, I corrected it. That's what I get for walking away mid-sentence & coming back to finish it without reading what I wrote before. 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:55:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Who says that they are not? Simply having someone from Israel spying on Iran from the US is NOT what I would consider unappreciative! And we don't even know that the story is true in the first place! Some folks love to see 'Elders of Zion' in everything that ever occurs in the US-Israeli relations! We shall see whether there is anything of substance to this story...or not. Eric The(ZionistFromCreation)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 8:55:37 AM EDT
[#25]
I agree. Let's shoot the Pentagon leak and the Israeli spy simultaneously. The US is my own country.
I understand an OPPORTUNIST like Israel would take the info THAT ITS SUPPOSED ALLY (THE US) DIDN'T WANT THEM TO HAVE. Doesn't mean i don't shoot the Israeli spy. And watch Israel like the opportunists they are. "Naieve" is letting them get away with it. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:00:05 AM EDT
[#26]
we've gone 'round and 'round with this before, and it's a well known fact that neither of us are going to change the other's mind. I am curious though, as it's something I don't recall ever asking... Do you support Israel because you see doing so as a tactical advantage in a volatile region, or because of your religious beliefs and bible verses? |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:00:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Wasn't it Kruschev who said "They (the US) will give us the rope to hang them with..." ETH, you remind me of a battered wife, who keeps returning to her abuser. The US has info they DO NOT want Israel to have. An ALLY would refuse the info and inform the Pentagon of the leak. Israel abuses our friendship with their spies. You say "Thank you very much" and then accuse us of having spies over there - a COMPLETELY unfounded charge, one you CANNOT and NEVER have given ANY evidence of - as if it justifies Isreals actions. Return to your abuser, battered wife. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:03:26 AM EDT
[#28]
I fixed that for ya. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:05:06 AM EDT
[#29]
why would they not spy on us regarding Iranian intelligence? i know i would if i was Israel. the S is going to H T F soon b/w the Israelis and Iranians.
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:06:29 AM EDT
[#30]
I'm not sure what the law says about this. I think spies from other countries are merely ejected and not allowed to return, but again, I'm not sure. Oh, you do recall we are a nation of laws, right? We don't get to just shoot those which you harbor a noticeably un-Christian hatred for. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:08:44 AM EDT
[#31]
I'd expect them to try. I'd also our gov't to execute them once caught. Allies SHARE info - not STEAL it from each other. That said, the US stealing intel from Israel is acceptable, as they are a US territory and protectorate, for all intents and purposes. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:13:22 AM EDT
[#32]
I'm all for following our own laws. If we'd shoot one of our own, according to the law, I'm guessing shooting a foreign spy is kosher too. (ETA: "kosher" to shoot a Jewish spy - not intentional I SWEAR!!!!!!!!!)
This is a tired old tactic, bee. Read the Bible sometime. NOTHING unChristian about nations killing others to protect their own interests. As I;ve said many times - I got NOTHING against Israel. I expect them to pull a stunt like this. Its what NATIONS THINKING OF THEIR OWN INTERESTS do. My animus is for our own politicians without the integrity to take care of business AS IF they were thinking of US interests first. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:14:17 AM EDT
[#33]
. . . in the same freaking post!! Priceless!! 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:15:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Longtime insider, and Neo-con supporter of Israel. He was also an architect of the Iraq invasion... Funny, ain't it, that Mossad had NO idea Saddam did NOT have WMD's.... (If ya believe that, there's a bridge for you somewhere!!)Israel is the only beneficiary of our invasion of Iraq. Saddam's fall took a LOT of heat off Israel. Members of AIPAC have been making mid-east policy in the interests of Israel, rather than the US.. Traitors, all of 'em!!! 
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:16:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Isreal's gov't is bought and paid for by the US. They are like a fiefdom. That said, IF there were any US spies in Israel, and they were caught, I'd anticipate Israel would execute them. its what sovereign antions do when they catcha spy. Goes with the territory. NOT what you suggest "Now nice Mr Israel spy, don;t you do that again, or we'll deport you...." |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:26:11 AM EDT
[#36]
G-man, "I would like . . . " and "The law is . . . " are two different things in real life. Oh, and I don't believe it's "if you do that again"--I think they are deported the *first* time, IIRC.
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:38:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Duly noted!
Check!
????
First, you must tell us your definition of 'Palestine', for in the History of the World, there has never been a nation that has been offivially called 'Palestine'! Are you referring to the British Mandate of Palestine that was set up after WW! by the Leage of Nations? Or are you referring to that part of the British Mandate that was partitioned by the United Nation's Committee on Palestine in 1947, which was actualized in 1948? Or are you referring to simply the West Bank and Gaza AFTER the War of 1948? Or possibly even the 'Occupied Territories' of the West Bank and Gaza AFTER the Six Days War of 1967? You must define which 'Palestine' you refer to, before I can give you the correct answer!
Again, please define which 'Palestine' you are referring to in that statement or question.
Which 'Palestine'?
I think this is where we came in.....
Shared religious values, shared cultural values, shared political values, shared citizenship (almost 25% of Israelis are US citizens), and Israel is the only democracy in the entire area! What's not to like? 
That may be your belief, but it would be wrong. When Sept 11th occurred, Israel wept! The Palestinians were photographed, filmed, and were reported to be dancing in the streets! Big difference! During both the First Gulf War and the recent War on Saddam, the Palestinians supported Saddam Hussein against the United States! Not Israel, but the United States of America!
History and good common sense says otherwise!
Uh-oh! I think you might wish to think a little more about Gaza. There is nothing of religious significance in the so-called 'Gaza Strip' that compels Israel to keep a tight watch over it It's the main highway between Egypt and the Holy Land that has been used for millenia by armies intent on conquering one way or the other. At present, it is the main conduit for weapons, explosives, and terrorists who wish to destroy Israel. It's just as strategic to Israel's security as our Southern Border is to ours! Too bad that we don't as heavily patrol ours as Israel does their's.
Good question! Maybe one of the anti-Israeli folks can explain that to you!
I quite agree!
I disagree totally with such a piece of utter nonsense as that!!
Hmmmm, I wish now that I had read the entirety of your rant BEFORE I replied to it! The Israelis, as garandman, can surely vouch for the truth, have NO INTEREST whatsoever in converting the Palesyinians to Judaism in the least! They could care less that these Palestinians are Moslems, and have, since the very beginning, simply wanted to be left alone to have their own little state. But Araby would not hear of anything so vile, as a 'Jewish' state in their neighborhood, and tried to stampt out Israel on every occasion that they could. And seriously got their asses handed to them every single ding-dong time they tried! Big time! Without fail!
Yes, I hope that Israel cuts them some slack the next time they kick the Arabs' asses! It's beginning to get tiresome, isn't it?
Oh, my! Well, it is a 'rant', after all!
No, I didn't suspect that you were Palestinian at all, or else you would know the history of this region better!
An understaement of Biblical proportions!
Does it bother you at all that some suicide bombers have happened to kill American citizens in some of their terror attacks? Some Christian American citizens? Oh, that's right, you are not a Christian! But you are an American! So, does it bother you when you read of such stories? If there were Mexican nationals who were blowing themselves up in suicide bombings at malls and pizza parlors, in churches, and in supermarkets, killing thousands of innocent American men, women and children, in San Antonio and San Diego, to protest against the loss of the Southwest in the Mexican War of 1848 (look it up), would that bother you? I 'spect it would, and what would you wish to see our government doing to stop it?
I think we are on Israel's side as well Thank God!
Yes, I would imagine that you do. As does Yasser Arafat, but who gives a flying fig what he thinks?
Copy your post and send it to him!
If you want to go to war with Israel, have at it! Maybe you could accomplish what the Arab Legions could not do! Just leave US out of it, and remember to leave your name sewn into your shorts for proper ID, along with a note for your next of kin!
Sheesh!
I give up!
You need glasses, my friend! Eric The(PleasedToMeetYou)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:40:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Post from norman74:
That's easy! Both reasons are sufficient for me. but I like the first one better, since the second reason is personal to me, and the first reason is one that everyone should be able to agree on! But there are also many, many other reasons, as well. Eric The(Realpolitik)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:59:37 AM EDT
[#39]
This all leads to a "chicken or the egg" debate, wherein one argument is that had we never supported the Israelis in the middle east, we never would have had a volatile region. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:01:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Wow - "I don't know anything and freely amdit it, but I am going to state my unfounded ridiculous opinions anyway" Everything you said showed any absolute ignorance of the history - which you freely admit. I can only assume the fact that you have opinions in line with the leftist drivel common in the US is because you have only heard snippets from such sources. You should probably read a little before developing such strong opinions. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:09:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Really? Then I guess them showing us all the really cool mods to the F-16's we sold them isn't worth anything, eh? |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:11:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Post from norman74:
Well that particular question does have an easy answer. This area has been the subject of more invasions and the object of more heated discussion than any area on the face of the planet! Would you care to hazzard a guess as to how many times in recored history the City of Jerusalem has either been conquered by armies or laid siege to by armies? Hmmmm? That alone should tell you that it will always be the center of contention, controversy, and conflict. Whether we support Israel or not! So, that is surely no reason to change our point of view now! Do you think that the IslamoFacists will agree to kiss our ring finger if we tell them we will no longer support Israel? Yeah, right ! Turn your stereo up real loud if that ever happens for you will not want to hearing the cries of anquish and terror that are coming from....Cairo and Damascus! Eric The(YouThoughtIWasGoingToSay'Israel'Didn'tYou?)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:59:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Remind me how this effects me again? |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 12:31:29 PM EDT
[#44]
That and all that rather cool ABM missile technology and some seriously good Jamming gear, not to mention battle testing the gear for the US Military so they can improve it to become the best of the best… ANdy |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 12:43:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Post from norman74:
 OK, so maybe you weren't personally affected.... But the same POSs that did the Sept 11th Attack on America are the same POSs that are doing the same thing to Israel. Only on a more routine basis.... Israel was, at the height of the so-called Second Intifadah, proportionally suffering the same losses as Sept 11th every 3 or 4 months. Eric The(FightThemThere,OrFightThemHere~YourChoice?)Hun
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Posted: 8/28/2004 12:51:47 PM EDT
[#46]
I can't believe you wrote that G-man----but since you did---if Israel is indeed a "US territory", then anything they get their hands on, no matter how, they must indeed be entitled to---since they are a "US territory". BTW, the "allies share info" statement is really ironic; because it puts you and Jonathon Pollard in the same boat. He thought that allies should share information too. The ONLY info that Pollard ever gave the Israelis, was info that the US had obligated itself to give Israel under an intelligence sharing agreement that we had signed w/them. The Israelis held up their end of the bargain, and then our military intelligence numbnuts decided that they didn't want to give the Israelis what we had obligated ourselves to disclose to them. This is the major reason Pollard got the sentence he got, and has been denied visitation all these years. Unfortunately, they had to give him access to an attorney (under court order). Otherwise, he still wouldn't have been able to share the real story about what happened and why. Strangely, the newspapers have ignored the real story of Pollard's actions. Gee, I wonder why that is  Does it occur to you that if we treated Israel more like an ally, they might act more like one? I guess we do, occasionally when it's to our advantage. Otherwise, "shut the hell up you guys and do what we tell you". |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 1:00:40 PM EDT
[#47]
I like Israel, because they kill ALMOST as many savage, muslim terrorists as we do.
And before we go further with the discussion, perhaps the content of what was passed should be discussed. If I read correctly, it was a draft of a speech. Not the Enigma Machine's blueprints. Not troop movement info. Not the plan for an invasion. It was a draft of a speech. No intelligence assets were compromised. It was a draft of a speech. That being said, I think he should be charged and fired. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 1:02:37 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm sure Israel is grateful this dirtbag passed US intel to them. It happens a lot. There are lots of sympathizers for Israel in the US.
Who was the guyt hat passed all those nuke secrets to them.? This guy in the Pentagon should get the sme treatment. Prison. End of story. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 1:33:39 PM EDT
[#49]
i pick the rus over chechnaya.
i pick the jews over the muslims. and...i'm picking argentina over italy in olympic basketball. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 1:51:33 PM EDT
[#50]
I am certain that they are, as well. Iran is more of a threat to them then it is to us! But Iran is still a threat to us, even so.
I doubt it. If you know, otherwise, then share it with us.
Being a sympathizer is far different than being a traitor or a spy, isn't it? I'm certain that most folks on this Board sympathize with Israel (the usual polls show 70%), but they are surely not traitors!
Yes, who was he?
You may be thinking about Jonathan Pollard, who gave the Israelis info on Saddam Hussein and Iraq. He is in prison and will be there for a very long time! Even Bill Clinton refused to pardon him at the end of his term as President. Eric The(American)Hun
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