I tried to solve a problem with GunBroker Customer Service and was basically told to pay the money and shut up. They then threatned me if I posted this on the gun boards. Today they terminated my account for posting the problem.

Open Wednesday, August 25, 2004 Issue #23510
Subject: Winning Bidder Trying To Make Payment

Item Number: 21859299



8/25/2004 10:28:37 AM
GB Support
Winning bidder sends the following message and we have responded
"[8/24/2004 6:26:53 PM] charliem [ACTIVE] Terry Harrison ([email protected])

Hello, I have won the above mentioned auction. I have sent 3 e mails and made a long distance call ( No Answer ) to the seller without any response. As of later today it will have been 5 days since end of Auction.

I understand that if I as a buyer do not contact the seller within 5 days the transaction may be cancelled by the seller and I may receive negative feedback. My question is, as the "buyer" after 5 days without any contact from the seller am I still required to complete the transaction. After checking the seller's feedback I am not comfortable with sending funds without first making contact with them.

Thank you

[email protected]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[8/25/2004 10:25:02 AM] GB Support

Did you receive the notice advising you that you won the auction and did you receive notice on how and where to make payment? If so, you need to make the payment and complete your transaction. This is a large seller with an "A+" rating. You have alreadty probably spent more than the $2.50 the item is worth. Make the payment and keep us advised. We will copy your email to the seller as well. Thank you, GunBroker.com"



To Seller:

Please contact the buyer as soon as possible to complete this transaction. Thank you, GunBroker.com




8/25/2004 12:45:00 PM
Terry Harrison
Are you stating that a seller may ignore Gunbroker rules while the buyer must abide by them? Have you read this sellers feedback just since my auction ended? This seller seems to have quite a history of accepting payments and not sending items.

No I have not spent more than the $2.50 for the item. It is not about the cost it is about the principle. How can you say this is an A+ seller, Have you read their feedback at all?

I have received only the email from Gunbroker stating that I won the auction and providing me with the sellers e mail address.I have sent 3 emails to that address without response.

I have NOT received any e mails or any other communication from the seller stating the Address to mail payment to and final total for the item.



8/25/2004 3:11:50 PM
GB Support
Please read this carefully. The seller in this case is an "A+" seller with over 600+ completed Gunbroker.com transactions. You have 7! Also please note there is absolutely no evidence that the seller is ignoring any rules. There are many reasons why emails are not received after they are sent out. They are totally unreliable. Please read the information below regarding emails:
Internet mail is not guaranteed delivery. There is no way to guarantee that a recipient will in fact, get it, nor is there any sure way for us to know that it has been delivered. It's exactly like mailing a letter; you drop it in the box but it may never get to the recipient and you may never get it back. Unfortunately, the Post Office puts a lot of ISPs to shame in terms of delivery quality. Email may not get delivered due to many reasons: configuration or technical problems at the recipient's ISP, spam filtering, mailbox size limits, incorrect message processing rules or vacation settings or rules in the recipient's client, or several other factors. None of these are within our control.

Please be advised, you should be using the tools on the website to monitor the progress of your auctions or bids. We recommend against using emails as a source of determining the status of auctions and bids, because it is unreliable. We do appreciate that you report problems so that we can fix them, but do not rely only on e-mails for your information.


When members complain about emails or registration code not being received, the first thing we look at is their email address.
People with Hotmail.com and AOL.com emails should read the FAQ titled “Email messages are not being received'. http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Su....asp?FAQID=1145 and set their browser as advised from one of our members:

“For AOL Optimized:
Click on SETTINGS
Click on the Internet Line
Click on Custom Level at bottom of the screen
Change both the Internet and Restricted Sites Icons by clicking on the Custom Level, Medium for both the Internet and Restricted Site Icon and
Click on reset to save the settings.

After you make those two changes there is no longer a problem with registration or e-mails.”

We rarely have any system problems. It is always a problem with the user's Spam filtering or something. Our response is the same thing for the “I'm not receiving my Item Sold notifications” etc. We receive a lot of complaints about emails, because members do not know about Spam filtering and configuring their email accounts to accept our emails. Members say we are not on their Spam filtering list, etc but we have to stress that we must be explicitly added onto their 'friend' or 'allowed' Spam blocking list. The fact that we are not on their 'blocked' list does not mean our emails will get through, they must add our gunbroker.com domain to their 'friend' or 'allowed' lists. This is where we get people insisting that it must be a problem with our systems, etc. A lot of members simply do not even know they have Spam filtering.

Hotmail is known to have Gunbroker.com on their spam list. The only way to fix it is for the user to add our domain name, or our email addresses to their hotmail 'friend' email list.


We're not taking sides here, only asking you to understand the reality of email communications today. They are bad and getting worse. Expect seller to answer us and will contact you when they do. Thank you, Gunbroker.com




8/25/2004 4:59:27 PM
Terry Harrison
As you say " Read this carefully " Because a seller has 600+ sales and a buyer has 7 doesn't automatically make the seller correct. I must say I find that reasoning offensive

Perhaps I have only 7 feedbacks with your site but with EBay I have well over 400 ( mostly as a seller ). I am not a "newbie" to online auctions. I came to your site because of E Bays' Anti gun stance.

You state that you are " not taking sides " in all honesty you could fool me.

In the future I will take the problem up with the seller when I can contact them. Do not worry about my taking up customer service time any further. At this point I feel it would be a waste of my time.






8/26/2004 4:53:44 AM
GB Support
No, at this point you are wasting our time not yours. Sorry you feel the way you do. We disagree with your thoughts on this matter. GunBroker.com



8/26/2004 6:38:41 AM
Terry Harrison
Not a problem I am a member of several gun forums
( potential buyers ) I will be happy to post this entire customer service problem on the boards an well see who's time is being wasted



8/26/2004 6:43:41 AM
GB Support
Your threats are falling on empty ears here. Cannot believe you are being such a complete jerk over a $2.50 auction transaction item that was not completed within 5 days! Post your messages and include this one. Be very careful though, libel can be very expensive and your threats have been recorded. GunBroker.com



8/26/2004 9:05:33 AM
Terry Harrison
Truth is a complete defense for libel and trust me your last response will be the icing on the cake.

Remember the 5 day rule is YOUR rule not mine



8/26/2004 9:12:30 AM
GB Support
You are not an attorney, or you would not make such a statement. Anyway, take your best shot. No ill will here, just common sense wondering what your real agenda here is? GunBroker.com



8/26/2004 9:23:49 AM
Terry Harrison
My only agenda is fair treatment for both buyer and seller. It appears that you could care less about the seller following rules but buyers must. You insist on saying a seller is A+ with 32 negatives isn't breaking any of your rules but I must send money whether or not the seller contacts me.

As you say " take your best shot " I have free speech rights and whatever I may post anywhere will be only direct copies with no additions or subtractions. The only party here making threats is you. So perhaps you need to contact your legal dept as I'm sure from your eloquent remarks you are not an attorney either.



8/27/2004 1:44:10 PM
GB Support
You know what, I'm tired of listening to you wine & bellyache. You're wasting GunBroker's time and you're now terminated!!!! Post that! Bye!


__________________

Ohh well fuck em

I really do agree with you on this... Gunbroker is a bit out of line.

HOWEVER.... for $2.50, I would have just sent the damn money order.  I'm guessing they deal with complaints involving thousands of dollars on a daily basis so your continued communication regarding $2.50  could get a bit annoying.

My .02

- BUCC_Guy

I gotta ask, for 2 dollars and 50 cents, what was it that caused you to lose this much sleep and raise your blood pressure this much??

nevermind, I just saw that it was for a manual for the M14.

That is totally un-acceptable from GB. Makes me think twice about using them ever again...

What the hell kind of customer service is that? "jerk" "tired of your whine and bellyache" "take your best shot"

Sheesh, they need some serious retraining there!

Quoted: I gotta ask, for 2 dollars and 50 cents, what was it that caused you to lose this much sleep and raise your blood pressure this much??

I would be concerned if the seller suddenly had a rash of negative ratings and didn't respond to email and phone calls, too. Granted $2.50 is not a large sum, but I don't think it is the point in this case.

Regardless of price, professional conduct should be expected and required. Gunbroker is really stepping in it with this crap.

Other than the fact that the guy has zero poeple skills ... I wonder if it going to his head that he thinks gunbroker is the "only game in town" now that eBay has quit accepting gun related auctions.

Quoted: Quoted: I gotta ask, for 2 dollars and 50 cents, what was it that caused you to lose this much sleep and raise your blood pressure this much?? I would be concerned if the seller suddenly had a rash of negative ratings and didn't respond to email and phone calls, too. Granted $2.50 is not a large sum, but I don't think it is the point in this case.

+1

note to self, avoid gunbroker

I would have just sent payment and waited, especially over $2.50!! Now, for a big ticket item, I'd want to make telephone contact. I agree though....Gunbroker's customer service sucks.

Your right it was never the $2.50, it was the principle of it. Thankfully I am at a point in my life that $2.50 will hardly make me or break me. It's the fact that I asked a supposedly NEUTRAL third party ( Gunbroker Customer service ) a question and was told not bother them and just pay the auction. The seller in question is nursemarge1975, check her feedback. She has 32 negative feedbacks for the same offense. I fully understand it's my fault for bidding and I can accept that.

However, it's Gunbrokers 5 day rule not mine. All I did was to ask if the seller can leave negative feedback for the buyer after 5 days of no contact and void the auction, then does the buyer have the same rights.

No I have never received an e mail from nursemarge1975 giving me an address to send payment to. I received a e mail from Gunbroker stating that I had won and an e mail address for the seller. I have sent three emails to the seller and a long distance phone call, all with no response.

I have since been able to obtain the sellers address and I have sent the funds with still no contact with the seller. I fully expect to be in the same position as the other 32 buyers she didn't send their item out.

I am much more irritated with Gunbroker, who is supposed be be professional, and their attitude than I am with the seller. I simply asked Gunbroker a question and still have never received an answer to that question

Quoted: Other than the fact that the guy has zero poeple skills ... I wonder if it going to his head that he thinks gunbroker is the "only game in town" now that eBay has quit accepting gun related auctions.

Ebay has stopped ALL gun related auctions? I haven;t been over there to check in awhile.....

S.O.

Nevermind how much money it was, thats just stupidity on GBs part.
I wouldnt send money to some virtual person without some sort of contact first. I have never used GB before but I guess this seals it for me.
Thanks for posting this. I vote you are right.

Quoted: Quoted: Other than the fact that the guy has zero poeple skills ... I wonder if it going to his head that he thinks gunbroker is the "only game in town" now that eBay has quit accepting gun related auctions. Ebay has stopped ALL gun related auctions? I haven;t been over there to check in awhile..... S.O.

Well .... not ALL .... but all so called "assault weapon" related items .... my point being; it puts gunbroker more in a position to feel like they are "the only game in town" ... are there any other gun related auction sites?

http://www.auctionarms.com/

Damn I just used them too.  Well, fuck 'em if they're that stupid.  Hope they read this thread, someone should forward it to them.  

The reps understanding of legal matters is pretty poor, to boot.

(note, this is barring any additional unreported info)

Quoted: www.auctionarms.com

yep.  there's more than one game in town.

I've made three purchases on gunbroker and one was pretty sizable. Paid all of them on time and still recieved a negative mark somehow by mistake, I guess. Anyway, when I tried to bring it to their attention they said I didn't pay for one of the items. Funny thing my check book shows a cancelled check and I have the item. This they ignored and they would not respond anymore to my e-mails. Yeh, fuck'em.

Look at this if you thing GB is on the level. I emailed them twice about this guy's fraudulent offerings (high cap 357 sig glock mags) TWO WEEKS BEFORE the final person was ripped off. They ignored by emails.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewUserFeedback.asp?User=408476

I'll never use them or their service.

JW

I've only got a couple things from there.  So far, so good, but this guy seems to have a bad attitude about the situation, and you're right to be a little upset about it.  Having no contact from the seller for a while isn't the right way to do business.  If the seller was going to be out of town or something, they should have ended their auctions.

Quoted: 8/26/2004 6:43:41 AM GB Support Your threats are falling on empty ears here. Cannot believe you are being such a complete jerk over a $2.50 auction transaction item that was not completed within 5 days! Post your messages and include this one. Be very careful though, libel can be very expensive and your threats have been recorded. GunBroker.com

That's customer support?  Lame-O.  

Sounds like the Cust. support guy was, like, 12 yrs old.

Fuck that shit-GunBroker is a piece of shit.  I had a problem with a dude last year who sold  me a "pre-ban" rifle-turns out it was not pre-ban, and it was configured illegally.  This would constitute  "materially not as described."  Their Customer Service didn't do jack shit about it.  This word needs to  get out-you're playing with your $$$$ if you spend it on GunBroker.  The insurance is a fraud.  Also, they won't do jack shit about a gun that you bought that was supposed to be in  "NIB" condition, but when you get it, it looks like it was buried at the bottom of a lake for 10 years.  

Here is the link to the sellers feedback I had asked Gunbroker about

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewUserFeedback.asp?User=393169

8/26/2004 9:05:33 AM Terry Harrison Truth is a complete defense for libel and trust me your last response will be the icing on the cake. Remember the 5 day rule is YOUR rule not mine 8/26/2004 9:12:30 AM GB Support You are not an attorney, or you would not make such a statement.Anyway, take your best shot. No ill will here, just common sense wondering what your real agenda here is? GunBroker.com

The guy proved he was a moron with that statement alone. It is funny when someone knows not of what they speak but still speaks it with utter conviction.

Ditto on the truth being a defense to libel thing.  I AM an attorney and although it's not exactly my area of practice I think you're right . . . at least about that.

Being a FNG, maybe we should all step back and say "You get what you paid for".  I agree,  you SHOULD get what you paid for!  GB, your response to this gives a black mark against you (if the posts are true).  I'll vote with my dollars, thank you very much.  But for the life of me, an item that is less than $5, especially for something that may be as important to you, why not use the EE?  As a FNG to this site, I FIND AR15.COM TO BE THE MOST USEFULL AND INFORMATIVE SITE AROUND!!! Factually:  you won it, he/she/it won't sell it, mgt. won't fix it/work to have it fixed.  I'm glad EE has lots of moderators and industry partners/reps who just may have what you want without the BS, and I mean true honest deals with honest people (to be sure, there are some low-life's hiding on the EE, it's  just that they can't hide but only so much!).  I'll ask some of my friends and THEY ARE LAWYERS.  I'll ask, no guarantees they'll even answer me (it's not my personal problem)- but I'll at least query.

Thanks for the thought. I have numerous friends that are attorneys. My line of work brought me to city and county courthouses for 25 years dealing with law. I'm not the least bit concerned they will sue me.

Quoted: Regardless of price, professional conduct should be expected and required. Gunbroker is really stepping in it with this crap.

A BIG +1.  I never liked them anyway!

Quoted: Quoted: Regardless of price, professional conduct should be expected and required. Gunbroker is really stepping in it with this crap.

A BIG +1.  I never liked them anyway!

Absolutely +1 again. I will relay this thread to every one of my friends for review. I will never do business through them again. Consider my account closed as well ASSHOLE (and I bet a few of my friends will be leaving as well).

Their Customer Service is for shit. Here is a link to their forum; forums.gunbroker.com/default.asp Maybe someone wants to post this there.
I'm considering closing my account...

GB is getting a reputation for this type of behavior on this board and others. They have a reputation of not helping a buyer if things go wrong. I have read about people getting locked for none-payment when in fact they were not the high bidder and no one advised other wise and lots of these smart ass responses.

That seems pretty radical to me for a CS agent to talk to a customer that way.  

What was the item?

I love how they state that e-mail is unreliable
I work for a global company and e-mail makes up about 98% of our communication.  Seems to work fine for me but then again I am in the communication industry

For $2.50 I wouldn't expect much.

What kind of messages does a seller get from them when they haven't completed the transaction?

I just don't like the idea of buying something I can't inspect myself unless they are known to me from experience, friends, etc. to be entirely great, with a liberal return policy.

Aren't you glad this wasn't a $250 transaction, or even $2,500 ?

The item was just a M1A manual, no big deal. I wasn't asking them to call "Guido" and have him " talk " to the seller. I just wanted clarification on their 5 day rule ref. contacting each other.

As far as the email reliability, It's reliable enough for the seller to be able to give neg feedback to a buyer if they haven't been contacted within 5 days. So how does it become so unreliable for the buyer to do the same to the seller.

Again it's not so much the price of the item or the sellers lack of fullfilling orders. It's the way I was spoken to for asking a question about Gunbroker rules. If you have a rule it should be good for a $2.50 item or a $2500 item. A thief is a thief whether they steal $2.50 or $2500.

This seller has 32 negatives all for the same infraction. Now $2.50 may not sound like much but, add another $2.50 for S&H and multiply that by the number of folks that never received their items and if some of those buyers bought more than one item, not to mention the buyers that didn't think it was worth the trouble to complain about such a small amount,  and it does begin to mount up.

Anyone mail them a link yet... I know that if they will treat someone like crap for a mere 2.50, what will they do for 1000.00??

NAH... AuctionArms.com for me.

http://gunsamerica.com/

That CS guy is a prick. It seems in this case some loser was given a small amount of power over something and he chooses to rule with an iron fist.