User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:05:58 AM EDT
Spoke to some relatives and friends today from Russia. The word is the planes were hi-jacked by Chechen terrorists and the Russians responded with force because they were afraid they were going to crash the planes into one of the nuclear facilities which has 4 reactors. The debris field is scattered over 50 miles from one of the planes. They are down playing this in the news because it was one of those dammed if you do and dammed if you dont situations for Putin. Currently, Putin has a high rating among Russian voters and as said by Russian news sources the "investigation" continues and after everyone has had a few bottles of Vodka over the next couple of weeks, we should all by then forget about it and go on with our lives......
and now back to "Kerry's purple hearts and all the attrocities in Vietnam."  |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:07:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Sad, but I hope it's true. Word gets out that we just take out any hi-jacked airline, then the hijackers will stop doing it. There is no value to them anymore.
TXL |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:10:29 AM EDT
[#2]
I wouldn't dought it at all, in Russia, "PC" means Pound & Crush.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:16:09 AM EDT
[#3]
damn, hard way to go.
 moral. don't let them take the plane! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:16:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Sounds about right on par for the Russians/Soviets. Listening to the news last night, and even though
the crash-site for the second plane had only been found abt 3 hours previousl, the mouthpiece for the Russians was saying, "Investigation of the crash site wreckage shows no evidence of any terrorism related damage...." Uh-huh... and it takes TSA here how long to make their best guesses sometimes? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:20:02 AM EDT
[#5]
extra layers of tinfoil added to head.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:22:34 AM EDT
[#6]
It wouldn't deter terrorists.
In fact, it might be more helpful to their cause. Nothing like the negative side effects (terror) of a government shooting down its own airliners. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:31:44 AM EDT
[#7]
If so, my hats off to the Russians for making the hard call.
These are the times that try mens souls. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:40:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Unfortunately in Russia, all you need is MONEY and you can go practically anywhere if the price is right.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:45:26 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't think so. It shows the government will do what it has to to defend critical targets. If this DID happen, GOOD FOR THE GOV. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:48:56 AM EDT
[#10]
I disagree. Its better than doing nothing at all. Russian politics being the way it is, controls and influences the presentation of events thats paletteable[sp] to their public and the world. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:52:26 AM EDT
[#11]
+1 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:59:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Oh, like it cost the Russian government anything to do that and then lie about it. Just like Flight 93 here. All governments are the same. Times that try mens' souls? Please, I don't want to insult you, but that is a ludicrous statement. These are easy times compared to, oh, I don't know, World War Two? The Civil War? All this terrorism was induced by various government policies around the globe--it's what happens when large groups of people get completely cut out of the political process. It is all a calculated power grab. Neither the Russians or our bureaucrats care whether you or I get killed. It's sickening. If they had to shoot the jets down to stop a Russian 9/11, the decent thing to do would be to explain it and own up to it. Any government failing to do that has no credibility whatsoever. And Russia is the epitome of rule by mobsters, with Putin (who is very friendly with GWB, btw) as the head mafioso. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:00:22 AM EDT
[#13]
And apparently all idiots are the same as well. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:02:07 AM EDT
[#14]
I don't think the gov't should hold back and let them do whatever with a hijacked plane.
I agree. They did the right thing. I just believe the terrorists still get what they wanted in the first place. People living in fear. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:07:35 AM EDT
[#15]
This could scenario could happen here in the USA, if hijackers gained control of an aircraft, and all the crew had to fight them off is the stewardesses. During the days following 9/11/01 WTC/Pentagon attack, there were warplanes patroling the skies of NYC with real bullets(this is for the sheeples, actually what I meant to say, armed with live missles and warheads).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:11:50 AM EDT
[#16]
+1. [posturing]Try that shit in Texas, terrorist fuckers.[/posturing] |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:16:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Tanker, if the title of this thread turns out to be true, there is nothing incorrect about that statement. If you know the plane was shot down before terrorists had a chance to detonate anything or crash it into targets of value, then none of the damage would be terrorist-related. Actually, thinking about it more, it would be "terrorist-related," because it never would have been shot down had it not been hijacked. What this mouthpiece should have said was: "Investigation of the crash site wreckage shows no evidence of any damage caused by terrorists...." There, got that one figured out. Now back to the $100,000 question: trying to find out what the definition of "is" is. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:17:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Not only that, but you could argue that it makes the terrorists' job easier – No longer any need to smuggle explosives aboard. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:21:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Can you imagine (s)Kerry making this kind of call? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:22:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Interesting point, but to play devil's advocate, the whole purpose of a guided bomb becomes moot.  |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:35:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Would the Russians have shot them down?
Sound very likely if the Russians suspected a hijack, it's their policy, no negotiation, no compromise…period! Andy |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:42:40 AM EDT
[#22]
It would figure...the russians never were masters of public relations. Their antiquated philosophy is that "what the people don't know, can't hurt em."
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:55:47 AM EDT
[#23]
The Assoisiated Press is reporting that Russia has placed terrorism as the most likely cause of the crashes. From FoxNews Russian Official: Terror Suspected in Crashes Thursday, August 26, 2004 Fast Facts: Chechnya Conflict MOSCOW — A top Russian official said Thursday that flight recorders (search) failed to provide reliable information about what brought down two jetliners just minutes apart, but for the first time a government leader conceded that terrorism was considered the leading possibility. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 10:00:34 AM EDT
[#24]
What do you think the pilots that fly the russky skys feel about this policy ?
Pilot : If I push the "I am highjacked" button I will die by a missle or is the button just attached to a self destuct device. Maybe I could see if I can play my way out of this if I dont let anyone know I am highjacked ? What is he going to do ? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 10:19:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Just think! Both airplanes did not have a lot of people on them, just like on Sept. 11. Its easier to take over a plane with less people to confront. Seems to fall into place with how 9/11 was pulled off. Hmmmmm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 10:29:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Hrmm. One plane was 500 miles further away when it was lost from radar four minutes after the first. How long does it take for a Flanker to fly 500 miles (or fly to within the envelope of an AA11)? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 11:10:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Easy... There were two fighters, and the 'shoot' order was given at the same time. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 11:34:34 AM EDT
[#28]
There are still idiots who believe that Flight 93 was shot down, you won't be able to disway them using facts on this case either. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 11:44:10 AM EDT
[#29]
I still vote to give EVERY passenger a Taser Gun.
As long as the passengers have the terrorists outnumbered they are mathematically guaranteed to be subdued. IMHO Da' Lab |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 11:54:15 AM EDT
[#30]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:07:27 PM EDT
[#31]
"I said more peanuts, bitch!" ZZZZap. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:07:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Mmmm...approximately an hour from take off to crash? That is the time frame that The Neutral Observer was given.
That's not much time for some terrorists to pull off a hijacking, word to get out to the ground controllers, then to filter through the command structure to someone who can make a decision like that, then for the order to filter back down and the aircraft to be scrambled, intercept the aircraft, and shoot them both down. It's a stretch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:14:30 PM EDT
[#33]
IF IT'S TRUE. It makes sense to say it was an accident not terrorism. That way you deny the terrorists the victory of public knowledge of forcing a shootdown... unless Putin wants to use this to bomb the rubble piles in Chechnya again.
Explode the plane at high altitude and you could get this I'm sure. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:14:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Math wasn't my strong point in school. Its more like 15 miles. Sorry.PS: You don't have to get that ugly with a mistake, it wasn't like I intentionally want to mislead readers.  |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:16:50 PM EDT
[#35]
How about a SAM? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:20:01 PM EDT
[#36]
What's getting me thus far is how they could take of "minutes apart" (how many, exactly) and end up 500 miles apart. One was found 100mi "south" of Moscow and the other 600mi "south" of Moscow. I'd first of all like to know exactly how "south" they were (i.e. ESE, WSW, etc). Then I'd like to see the flight plan(s). I'm giving Putin 15 minutes to accede to my demands! Then he will know my wrath and ............<click here><boom! /> <silence...................> |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:21:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Possible, but only if both aircraft strayed in range of alerted, fixed-position SAM sites. Not enough time to get a mobile unit out there, especially since they couldn't assume the airplane would stay on it's original flight plan. Then you still have the problem of command-control. Waking up/alerting the crews, getting the systems online, giving them authority for the shoot down, etc. Still a stretch. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:22:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Did you guys see the report that there were six passengers who checked luggage but didn't make the flight?
Seems a bomb could have very easily made it on board. The fact that both planes went down at almost the same time, I think this is very likely. A bomb put on both planes, set on timers. The Russians say that the data recorders stopped recording instantly, they just are flying along and then both of them stop recording. I think that also fits the bomb theory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:22:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Av, it's not the space shuttle. Still, use that as a guide. Anyone remember how far that debris field stretched (honestly, i don't)? Scale it down/back/slower and go from there. Just for rough comparison. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:27:20 PM EDT
[#40]
9:35 p.m. — Tu-154 jet, carrying 46 passengers, takes off from Moscow's Domodedovo airport (search) for the Black Sea resort of Sochi (search). 10:15 p.m. — Tu-134 jet, carrying 43 passengers, takes off from Moscow's Domodedovo airport for the southern Russian city of Volgograd (search). 10:55 p.m. — Tu-154 jet activates a distress signal indicating that the plane might have been hijacked. 10:56 p.m. — Tu-134 jet disappears from radar screens and crashes. 10:59 p.m. — Tu-154 crashes in Rostov region. Wednesday, Aug. 25 3:00 a.m. — Rescuers find the wreckage of Tu-134 jet in the Tula region, about 125 miles south of Moscow. 8:41 a.m. — Rescuers discover wreckage of Tu-154 jet some 600 miles south of Moscow. They took off 40 minutes apart, and the crashes were less than 500 miles apart. That's what to be expected. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:28:39 PM EDT
[#41]
All of the reports I've seen said they took off up to 30 minutes apart. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:31:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Wonder if this'll make it to CBS/ABC/CNN tonight for the evening news.
Ben |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:34:49 PM EDT
[#43]
"Damn, baby, that's all you needed to say......!" (can't remember what that's from) That makes perfect sense now. A couple things I read last night said a few minutes. It made me think that maybe the closer one had circled back around and was maybe shot down on it's way back to strike a target. But nevermind, now. That closes that chapter/question for me. Thanks for the info. ETA: The "u" that properly belongs in the word "minutes." |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:35:11 PM EDT
[#44]
A passanger plane flying at 35,000 feet travelling at a speed of 450 miles an hour is different than the space shuttle flying at 200,000 feet at an extremely high rate of speed. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:37:31 PM EDT
[#45]
The new Russian S400 and S500 SAMs have ranges in the 300-500mi range.
The Bear has always favored ground directed interceptors and SAMs. Edit: The space shuttle was spread over two thousand miles. Remember, an SR-71 going only ~1800mph broke up high over Montana and spread debris over a few hundred miles. A 500mph airliner @ 40,000ft (terrorists will full throttle it) breaking up at altitude could spread over 15-50 miles I'd think (especially if it took it few minutes to break up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:38:40 PM EDT
[#46]
That was what I was trying to say. That it wasn't the space shuttle and that we wouldn't be seeing 50mi debris fields w/ something so "slow and low" (relative to the shuttle). |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:41:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Shit, edit. I'm all goofed up today.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:48:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Blah, Blah...
Flags at half mast in Moscow? Hmmmm. Semper Fi |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:51:19 PM EDT
[#49]
I guess there’s also the possibility that one or both of the planes crashed as a result of fighting between hijackers and the crew or passengers.
Still, if you’re willing to consider that the report of the hijack alert might be incorrect, the obvious explanation at this time would simply be bombs. I’ve got to hope that NSA was monitoring all the radio traffic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2004 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Remember that Volgagrad=Stalingrad.
GunLvr |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
