I'm tired of scraping buy with my el-cheapo spotter that can BARELY pick up a .30 hole at 200 yds. And forget about .223 holes.

I/m willing to spend $400-500 on the scope, with another $100 or so on a stand.

Any suggestions????

Kowa 821 with 45 degree eyepeice is what I have.  I got the zoom and I wish I would have got the fixed power eye piece.  60 power quality isn't there.  It works good up to about 40 and they make a 35 power fixed I think.  I got mine through Creedmore.

Don't get their stand.  I can't get the mount over the joints with out loosening them first.  Also not the most stable. I seen some at Camp Perry that look like they're made out of 1 1/2 inch aluminum tube that must be a heluva lot more stable.  I'm going to get one this year.  Does anybody know what I'm talking about?

If size isn't a problem, get a Meade ETX90.  Originally intended to be a small astronomical scope, it has become very popular as a spotter. Under ideal conditions, you'll see .223 holes at 1000 yards.  For smaller and more portable sizes, try a Kowa 50mm compact with a 20x eyepiece.  I haven't got the hang of html yet so I can't make an active link here, but go to Camera Corner at www.camcor.com; they offer plenty of scope options at good prices.

Rule of thumb for optics:  the human eye (should) discern at a resolution of 1 minute of angle.  At 200 yards, this is 2 inches.  A .223 hole is roughly 1/10 that, so a minimum 10x is required in this case; 20X will give you better resolution in bad conditions.  Too much above 24X results in increased mirage, image wobble, and small field of view.  Larger objectives give a brighter image but increase the size of the scope.  Like you found out, el cheapo optics can ruin viewing even if you have enough magnification.  

You guys are going to laugh at me for suggesting this but do a find on "birding watching."  Apparently those people use spotting scopes for watching birds, and there are quite a few out there such as Fujinons, Nikons, Pentaxes, etc, and of course the high-end $1,000+ Leitz, Sworskis(?) & Steiners.  My buddy has a Kowa 82mm flourite front objective and a variable 20-60X eyepiece.  I think it set him back something like $1,000.  But Kowa has some less expensive models.

KOWA [:D]

Garandman: I just took the plunge...  Kowa 821M w/27X long eye relief eyepiece.  It's a new model (improved -821), introduced in February.  You WANT that 45-degree angled eyepiece.  Jim Owens' current price for the scope beats all other offers I've seen.  His price includes shipping, cordura cover, 27X eyepiece and screw-on protector for the eyepiece.  Most other retailers will nickel & dime you on those accessories.  Jim's a Highpower Rifle competitor and good guy.  Glad I got mine from him.  [url]http://www.jarheadtop.com/[/url]    

I have the Bausch & Lomb Discoverer. It's 15x to 60x.

Downside is that it's large and will wobble in a wind. Mirage problems set in at around 25x. But I can read tail numbers on airplanes 10 miles away on the runway.

It works for birds, and spotting. .223 holes are easier to see if you're shooting at a target with a lot of white and not much black. I shoot at a 1" white circle in a 1" black square. I have 1" grid lines around this target and a 1" black spot below it.

I can see the shots with my 14x scope most of the time. I can't see the target with my 6x scope.

There used to be an outfit in Eugene Oregon called OK Weber.  They mail order a lot of highpower shooting supplies like jackets, Kowa scopes, high grade sights and the like.

Someone on this board knows a lot more about them I bet.  

They used to sell a pretty handy shooting tripod with some screw-in extensions so you could shoot prone, sitting or standing and check out the results via the scope.  Helps to stick a weight on the bottom of the tripod in windy conditions.

The information number for Eugene would be
541-555-1212

I would check out the Bushnell Spacemaster, I have the 60 MM with the 20X60 long eye relief zoom eyepiece, Model #78-2318 this number is for scope only, they have other models that include a tripod and case, it does fine. I have stuck with Bushnell & Bausch&Lomb products for over 40 years, and they have not let me down yet. I would think they have been around long enough to know how to do it right. Watch your money, do not get caught up in hype.

I didn't deal with Eugene, but I just got my Champion's Choice Inc. catalogue, and they list a scope stand on page 66 that has stand, head, and 3 22-inch 5/8" dia. extensions for $120.  They also have a 3/4" dia extensions for $10 extra.  There website is www.champchoice.com

I have the same setup as Waldo with both eyepieces he mentioned. Great at dusk.