Poll coming.

I have. I was sitting the desk one night in the Fuels Contol Center when the Weather line rang. Picked it up and it was a weather report stating that we had thunder storms within three miles. SOP was to shut down all fuel movement on the base when we had thunder storms within three miles so I had 5 trucks out on the line that I had shut down and return to the Fuels section.

About 5 minutes later one of the guys at the aircraft maitenance control center calls me wanting to know why I shut down the refuels. I asked him if they had gotten the weather report over the weather line and he said "yes".

I told him that was why I shut down the refuel operations...we had thunderstorms within three miles!

His reply was that the weather report said we had thunder storms within three miles and said nothing about lightning and that the regulations said we were to shut down when we had lightning within three miles, nothing about thunder storms. Then he demanded I send the trucks back out. I told him it was going to take more than his TSgt.(E-6) stripes to make me obey that order. I was an E-4 at the time.

I few minutes later, a Captain calls me and orders me to send the fuel trucks back out.

I refused and informed him I was calling my Chief. He went off on me and I just hung up. As I was calling the Chief waking him, he called back screaming into the phone. When the Chief answered I just said, "Evening Chief, Sweep here sir. Listen to this." And held the two phones up to each other, ear piece to mouth piece for about 10 seconds.

Long story short, Chief called our Colonel, Colenel called the base commander, didn't ever hear from that captain again and didn't hear from the TSgt for about 3 months after that.

In the end, the weather reports there after had to report, "Thunder storms producing lightning withing three miles".

I don't recall ever being given an unlawful order.

More than once.

I had a full bird Captain try to get me to install a telephone (a black non-secure circuit) next to a not-to-be-mentioned red (secure/secret) device for the one star admiral. I looked up the TEMPEST regulation on the matter and told the Chief-of-Staff that the book required a distance of "XX" feet which is where the phone was mounted. He about came completely unglued ranting and raving. I smiled and asked him if he would mind repeating his order either on paper or in front of a commissioned officer (my boss). The admiral came in during the "discussion" that followed and he agreed with me and said that he didn't know TEMPEST reg's were involved and that he wouldn't mind following them.

Another time I put the entire aircraft carrier on a security alert shutting down the brow and releasing the hounds on a E-4 and a W-3. The E-4 refused to show ID while leaving the brow. My sentry asked him twice before getting the finger - he told me and I stopped the guy and asked him three times (required by regulations) to present an ID card. He refused so I called for my MAA's to detain him (stuff him and cuff him). The E-4 gets on his ship's walkie talkie and calls for the ship's bo'sunmate (a warrant officer 3) to come to his rescue. He takes it upon himself to interfere with the MAA's (who are armed only with batons and mace) and tells me to let his worker go, I say no, he continues towards the MAA's and it looks like he's going to lay hands on, so I release my weapons department brow watch upon the W3. The MAA's take the W3 down as a shotgun is pointed at his head. I call the OOD (officer of the deck) to come defuse the situation and to open the brows for bussiness. When the OOD arrives he has the MAA's release the W3 who charges at me at a pretty brisk pace and starts to tap me in the chest (he's about 6" and 50 pounds smaller than me), the OOD runs over graps the bo'sun and takes him off of me and starts chewing his ass up one side and down the other for interfering with the MAA's, the sentries, and me the JOOD. Too funny. So much drama for some little asshole not producing his ID card. The deck department had trouble with their ship's television system for a year after that. Their incoming outside telephone line never worked very well after that either.

Quoted: Quoted: His reply was that the weather report said we had thunder storms within three miles and said nothing about lightning Uh, what does he think CAUSES thunder?   Duh.  Lightening. The 2 go hand in hand.

Yeah, left that part out trying to keep it short. That was why I refused to obey the order and I mentioned to him what an idiot he was.

What really cracked me up was after that the weather guys were reporting to us "Thunder storms producing lightning". The thunder doesn't produce the lightning, the lightning produces the thunder.

Quoted: Quoted: Another time I put the entire aircraft carrier on a security alert shutting down the brow and releasing the hounds on a E-4 and a W-3. The E-4 refused to show ID while leaving the brow. My sentry asked him twice before getting the finger - he told me and I stopped the guy and asked him three times (required by regulations) to present an ID card. He refused so I called for my MAA's to detain him (stuff him and cuff him). The E-4 gets on his ship's walkie talkie and calls for the ship's bo'sunmate (a warrant officer 3) to come to his rescue. He takes it upon himself to interfere with the MAA's (who are armed only with batons and mace) and tells me to let his worker go, I say no, he continues towards the MAA's and it looks like he's going to lay hands on, so I release my weapons department brow watch upon the W3. The MAA's take the W3 down as a shotgun is pointed at his head. I call the OOD (officer of the deck) to come defuse the situation and to open the brows for bussiness. When the OOD arrives he has the MAA's release the W3 who charges at me at a pretty brisk pace and starts to tap me in the chest (he's about 6" and 50 pounds smaller than me), the OOD runs over graps the bo'sun and takes him off of me and starts chewing his ass up one side and down the other for interfering with the MAA's, the sentries, and me the JOOD. Too funny. So much drama for some little asshole not producing his ID card. The deck department had trouble with their ship's television system for a year after that. Their incoming outside telephone line never worked very well after that either. That explains alot about you.

Thank you.

Orders are orders and three months after the USS Cole which was on its way to my battle group was attacked we really weren't ready to take such things casually. The ship's CO routinely reminds the watch standers that everyone is to be checked coming and going - including him and the admiral. If someone slips past the watch team they get to stand the 0000 to 0400 watch as training.

Quoted: I don't know that you refused to follow an illegal order. An illegal order is one that violates the UCMJ, or treaties. IE, beat those prisoners, or not feeding prisoners, use hollowpoint ammo.........................etc. You had someone order you to disregard a policy, or post order. Not sure that goes "illegal". Fortunately you were using common sense, and following established policy, not to mention having a guy with a whole bunch of rockers and chevrons who backed up your call, and made sure others did too.

Maybe you're right in the fact it might not have been an unlawful order, but it went against U.S. Air Force regulations.

I remember when the guy told me he was a Technical Sgt. (E-6) and that he out ranked me. I told him, "Well, I see your TSgt. and raise you a Chief!". At that point though I had no intention of waking the Chief up over some ignorant TSgt. that didn't know where the sound of thunder originated from. Really didn't have a choice when the Capt. called and started chewing my ass.

I think the Chief saw his Capt. Bars and raised him a Col.

Quoted: More than once. I had a full bird Captain try to get me to install a telephone (a black non-secure circuit) next to a not-to-be-mentioned red (secure/secret) device for the one star admiral. I looked up the TEMPEST regulation on the matter and told the Chief-of-Staff that the book required a distance of "XX" feet which is where the phone was mounted. He about came completely unglued ranting and raving. I smiled and asked him if he would mind repeating his order either on paper or in front of a commissioned officer (my boss). The admiral came in during the "discussion" that followed and he agreed with me and said that he didn't know TEMPEST reg's were involved and that he wouldn't mind following them. Another time I put the entire aircraft carrier on a security alert shutting down the brow and releasing the hounds on a E-4 and a W-3. The E-4 refused to show ID while leaving the brow. My sentry asked him twice before getting the finger - he told me and I stopped the guy and asked him three times (required by regulations) to present an ID card. He refused so I called for my MAA's to detain him (stuff him and cuff him). The E-4 gets on his ship's walkie talkie and calls for the ship's bo'sunmate (a warrant officer 3) to come to his rescue. He takes it upon himself to interfere with the MAA's (who are armed only with batons and mace) and tells me to let his worker go, I say no, he continues towards the MAA's and it looks like he's going to lay hands on, so I release my weapons department brow watch upon the W3. The MAA's take the W3 down as a shotgun is pointed at his head. I call the OOD (officer of the deck) to come defuse the situation and to open the brows for bussiness. When the OOD arrives he has the MAA's release the W3 who charges at me at a pretty brisk pace and starts to tap me in the chest (he's about 6" and 50 pounds smaller than me), the OOD runs over graps the bo'sun and takes him off of me and starts chewing his ass up one side and down the other for interfering with the MAA's, the sentries, and me the JOOD. Too funny. So much drama for some little asshole not producing his ID card. The deck department had trouble with their ship's television system for a year after that. Their incoming outside telephone line never worked very well after that either.

Got the jest of the story, but what the hell is:

TEMPEST?
brow?
MAA?
OOD?
JOOD?

Damn Navy!

Quoted: Ever refuse to obey an unlawful order? Hey, what gives here?  This is a Catch 22. If I answer "No," that implies I obeyed an unlawful order if it was given to me. Allright allright, just joking. Nope, I never refused to obey an unlawful because I was never given an unlawful order. Good question, Sweep.

Changed the wording around to: "Ever been given an unlawful order that you refused to obey?"

Quoted: Have not had to disobey one yet.  Damn good job standing up to the idiot. No way in hell I (a TSgt Crew Chief) would ever refuel an aircraft during a thunderstorm. Here's why; www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2003/images/marine_%20bolt.jpg 9/5/03 – EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif.

Awesome damn pic!

I've was on the flight line once at Tyndall AFB when lightning struck a ground on the flight line and it danced all the way up and down the tarmac. Scared the hell out me with 5,000 of JP-4 behind me in that R-9 fuel truck.

Quoted: Got the jest of the story, but what the hell is: TEMPEST? brow? MAA? OOD? JOOD? Damn Navy!

TEMPEST ... the non-secure name given to the program that reduces the electrical signatures - think emcon (emission control) and spy stuff.

Brow - The ramp that runs from the pier to the quarterdeck (where the OOD stands)

MAA - Masters At Arms - the ship's police force

OOD - Officer of the Deck (sea)/Day (shore) - the senior officer in charge after the captain's gone. Handles all the watchstanding (guard duty)

JOOD - Junior OOD - normally a mid-grade officer or senior enlisted in charge of the watch section (guards) for a four hour period. Nomally located on the quarterdeck to over see watch standards and to respond to emergencies (like a seagull shitting on the CO's car 15 minutes prior to his normal departure time).

Landlubbers

Quoted: Quoted: Poll coming. I have. I was sitting the desk one night in the Fuels Contol Center when the Weather line rang. Picked it up and it was a weather report stating that we had thunder storms within three miles. SOP was to shut down all fuel movement on the base when we had thunder storms within three miles so I had 5 trucks out on the line that I had shut down and return to the Fuels section. About 5 minutes later one of the guys at the aircraft maitenance control center calls me wanting to know why I shut down the refuels. I asked him if they had gotten the weather report over the weather line and he said "yes". I told him that was why I shut down the refuel operations...we had thunderstorms within three miles! His reply was that the weather report said we had thunder storms within three miles and said nothing about lightning and that the regulations said we were to shut down when we had lightning within three miles, nothing about thunder storms. Then he demanded I send the trucks back out. I told him it was going to take more than his TSgt.(E-6) stripes to make me obey that order. I was an E-4 at the time. I few minutes later, a Captain calls me and orders me to send the fuel trucks back out. I refused and informed him I was calling my Chief. He went off on me and I just hung up. As I was calling the Chief waking him, he called back screaming into the phone. When the Chief answered I just said, "Evening Chief, Sweep here sir. Listen to this." And held the two phones up to each other, ear piece to mouth piece for about 10 seconds. Long story short, Chief called our Colonel, Colenel called the base commander, didn't ever hear from that captain again and didn't hear from the TSgt for about 3 months after that. In the end, the weather reports there after had to report, "Thunder storms producing lightning withing three miles". Sweep, I think the order by the captain, stupid as it was, was perfectly lawful.  You don't have the right to disobey a lawful, yet very risky, order.  If you had disobeyed my order, I would have you prosecuted.   (of course, I am very hesitant to throw orders around in the first place, and I REALLY hesitate when troop safety is on the line!)

Well, a 3 star general disagrees with you. I was told, through my Chief, by the General, that I did the right thing and I should be commended for not following the order by the Captian. If it had been you, giving me that order you wouldn't have prosecuted me. Don't know what exactly happened to the Capt., but I know the base commander was NOT pleased with his stupidity and he never worked in the aircraft maintenance control center again, a prestigious job for that career field.

Quoted: Quoted: Got the jest of the story, but what the hell is: TEMPEST? brow? MAA? OOD? JOOD? Damn Navy! TEMPEST ... the non-secure name given to the program that reduces the electrical signatures - think emcon (emission control) and spy stuff. Brow - The ramp that runs from the pier to the quarterdeck (where the OOD stands) MAA - Masters At Arms - the ship's police force OOD - Officer of the Deck (sea)/Day (shore) - the senior officer in charge after the captain's gone. Handles all the watchstanding (guard duty) JOOD - Junior OOD - normally a mid-grade officer or senior enlisted in charge of the watch section (guards) for a four hour period. Nomally located on the quarterdeck to over see watch standards and to respond to emergencies (like a seagull shitting on the CO's car 15 minutes prior to his normal departure time). Landlubbers

Almost had the OOD. I was thinking Officer On Duty. Wait a minute, shouldn't that be OOT(the)D?

Quoted: any officers around here?

Tortfeasor