I was having a good ol' political debate with a friend that lives in Cali. Hes pro Kerry (working on that, put some doubt in him about sKerrys after vietnam performance), and sorta anti 2nd since he doesn't see the need for gun but doesn't care if others own em. He raised the point his parents raised him in a way that would never condone him taking the life of another. Even if it meant him loosing his, because if he lived his life in persuit of god, he would go to heaven. I mentioned that 80% of people shot survive in the united states, but this led down to him asking me if I was willing to accept that I could be taking a life. After thinking about it, I pretty much realised that my father had explicitly told me that he would never want me to take the life of another in defense of him (he found my loaded .45). After thinking about how I came to accept the possibility that using a firearm in self defence could mean the death of another, I realised where this influence come from. I'm 20, and graduated in 02. Where this came from was seeing what kind of quality youth even my suburban Nevada highschool had produced. I wen't to the same school as those confused white kids from the '311 boyz' gang (made national news for the assault and attempted murder of another kid who went to my school). I had also been a sort of victim of these kids because of a stupid string of decisions that escalated a situation with a potent potential for violence. I got off lucky with a busted nose, some damage to a vehicle, and slight property damage that occured in conjuction with the vehicle. The kind of stupidity, drug use, and no ability to take responsibility for their own actions was depressing.

Sad that seeing my generation grow up is the reason would influence me to value my self preservation, over theirs.

I learned from my family that you do the right thing, and if youre in the right, and someone threatend you, you must defend yourself. Not could, must.

It is not sad that your self preservation means something to you. I am only a little older than you, I turned 24 not too long ago, and I also put myself ahead of others (not including my child of course). We live in a dog eat dog world, and to be perfectly honest it is not only your generation that feels this way. Look at the way past wars have influenced people. Youth violence may be on the rise, but it is nothing new either. IMHO if more people felt strongly about self preservation, we wouldn't have so many people dying of AIDS or drug overdoses. It is your job to protect yourself. You are an adult which means mom and dad can't do it anymore. Someday you will have a family (if you don't already) and you will protect them as well. To be perfectly honest, I hope I never get into a do or die situation, but if I am faced with some creep in an alley intent on killing me or my child I will put everything I have into preventing him from accomplishing his task. I am not very strong and could fail, but as God is my witness I would die trying.

Thanks for the replies. It isn't disturbing to me that I'd be willing to kill another to prevent myself or someone I care about from being killing.. Its that my logical thought process to accept it, came from my own peers. =\

I graduated HS in 2000, im 22 in less than a month. I was always raised to defend yourself, the issue of killing someone in self defense was never said out loud, but I know that my father and i share the same thought patterns.. If it is the bad guy or me who walks out of it, better believe it will be me. If someone intends to injure or kill you, then you have every right to defend yourself.
i can honestly say i would willingly and without much hesitation, end somebody's days for attempting to inflict serious injury, and kill Myself, my family or my blood. and it would not haunt me one bit.

your family and your life is the most precious thing in the world, if someone encroaches on that, then they have decided to surrender their own lives.

think about it.

It's me or them....I am a lot more valuable to my family then "they"are.

That being said, I would kill for my family's safety. No questions, no remorse (if justified).

The way I see it, the criminal is the one to blame.

Glad my Dad was raised on Saturday matinees of Western movies-he taught me that the good guy defends himself against the bad guys, even if you have to kill them (which, realistically, most of us won't have to face).
Hollywod sure does teach different values now, though.

Quoted: You are going to die someday, so is everybody else. You have little say in when your time comes, but that does not mean that you shuld be willing to die so that you don't have to make the choice for somebody else. When you are out into a situation where you have to decide to use leathal force remember that, the person who is making you make the descision set his own fate, you are not deciding if they live or die, you are deciding if you live or die, the bonehead who is threatening your life decided they would die, and that you were the one who would facilitate it.

+1

I've seldom seen the rationale for lethal self-defense put so eloquently.  Well put, Lightning_P38

Those who would not take another's life in defense of a loved one, or themself, value neither that loved one nor themself.

It is worse to let a criminal injure or kill the innocent, then to stop that criminal, even if it means killing him. Whether or not the criminal dies, is HIS choice ...  

Quoted: He raised the point his parents raised him in a way that would never condone him taking the life of another. Even if it meant him loosing his, because if he lived his life in persuit of god, he would go to heaven.

Tell him his parents were utopian douchebags...  

In my experience, people with this philosiphy are always the biggest hypocrites in a given population.  

A friend of mines sister and brother in law are like that...  Bars on the windows, 5 locks on every door, a hot phone to ADT, and a son that's afraid of everything, yet, I'm the one that is supposed to be a paranoid wacko because of my firearms hobby....

wouldn't allowing yourself to be killed be equal to suicide?
And isn't suicide the unforgivable sin?
It would then stand to reason that Not defending your life to the death is a sin.

ktm500