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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:18:18 PM EDT
Thinking about moving to NY soon. I am currently in the PRK and have a .40 cal handgun that I use for home defense duties. I am most likely going to be leaving my handguns here in CA until the dust settles in NY and I have alot of spare time and $$$$ to have them registered in NY. ANYWAYS....I am going to want to switch to a rifle for home defense purposes. I am going to pick up a pre-ban AR (only prebans get the fun goodies in NY) for home defense. I am planing on modifying the weapon to meet my needs (home defense). A collapsable stock is in order (make the rifle more maneuverable indoors) and some sort of surefire type light for the forend. MY QUESTION HOWEVER FOR THE ARFCOMERS.....what is the best rifle set-up for home defense at night...I dont have much experience with the situation, and I am curious what the best way to aim a rifle at night. indoors/outdoors (backyard). Use the surefire as an aiming tool? Surefire/iron sights? Bother with anykind of an aimpoint etc in such close quarters?
any info/suggestions/smart ass remarks are appreciated 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:20:41 PM EDT
[#1]
For a HD rifle, I prefer the 12 ga. kind
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:21:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Remington 870HD |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:25:32 PM EDT
[#3]
To modify an AR for home defense you would need to conver it to a 12 guage shotgun upper (Read Joke) 223 would be a pretty serious overpenatration danger, unless you got a big ass house. Sure frangible would fix that. A winchester Defender or Mossy would be better if your going to do a long gun. Plus the cocking sound of butting a shotgun in battery is a very unique sound that any criminal will hear loud and clear and most likely turn and run. remeber the best gun fight is the one that doesnt happen. Civil court is a bitch. Typically your now dead assailant comes from a family with little money. So the slip and fall attorney prods the low income family into a civil suite. In NY your 50-50 at best. SAme applaies with the 223 overpenatration. It would suck to kill an innocent neighbors child spraying .223 all over the place. Then you get sued for it. Buy a shotgun and sleep easy.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:32:19 PM EDT
[#4]
I do have a mossy 590....shotgun is good advice
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:32:59 PM EDT
[#5]
For Home defense, you don't want an AR. Go for a Rem 870, extended mag tube, add a Surefire forend and top it with a set of ghost rings.
 Shit, you can just stick with this...  Sweet, simple, reliable and cheap right out of the box. Overall, a shotgun is ideal since you don't really need to real aim at close range. With tactical loads (#4 buckshot) you wouldn't need to worry about penetrating several walls, but more importantly everyone or anyone who makes "a living" by B&E will know that distinctive metallic sound when you chamber a shell. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:35:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Benelli M1 Tactical CW |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:35:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Tactical loads? Any Recommendations? .00 Buck?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:36:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Jesucristo, the Misinformation Squad is really out in force tonight.
Disregard all that shit you read above if you actually want to know what to do. Buckshot overpenetrates more than 5.56. Aimpoint, SureFire forearm rail mounted light, and 77gr TAP or Mk262. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:36:42 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:37:07 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:37:21 PM EDT
[#11]
In addition to the ballistic advantages, you might also prefer having a $200 shotgun confiscated and held as evidence after a defensive shooting, instead of the $1500 AR-15.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:37:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Where do you get your information - Mike Hammer novels? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:38:59 PM EDT
[#13]
I load mine with the first two 00-buck and the rest with slugs. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:39:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Since many of the others seem to have an issue trying to figure out the difference between a rifle and shotgun.... Keep it simple and short. 16" barrel - not muzzle brake - A1 stock or shorter. Light (Surefire) is a MUST. Ammo should be Black Hills 68gr, 69gr, or 75gr (if your particular rifle will stabilize it). Black hills is selected because it's low flash, inexpensive, and those particular bullets perform VERY well as defensive rounds and don't have the overpenetration issues that handguns and buckshot/slugs have.
Aimpoint is a VERY good thing. However there is an easy way to get some leaning on this subject. FIRE Institute has some EXCELLENT classes on handling a carbine for these kind of situations. Even the basic course touches on night shooting (you will fire rounds at night). Classes are held in Pittsburgh and not too far away from any point in NY. Lots of site members have been there, including the NY Crew. Get Trained! and FIRE classes are the inexpensive way to do it. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:39:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Yeah, that'll solve his overpenetration concerns... 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:41:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Obviously you are someone who has NEVER shot a shotgun at close range. At typical home distances spread is only a few inches - you still have to aim it just like any other long arm. Go back to reading your 'spy books' and let the grown ups talk. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:43:03 PM EDT
[#17]
You are responsible for everything you put downrange. You better aim everything you shoot. Nevermind the 4 rules. 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:44:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Who says I am worried about over penetration? Get off the high horse dude. Any HD firearm shot in my house is not going to get out other than a window. Where is your your .223 now jackass? BTW where does he mention anything about overpenetration cooncerns? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:47:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Overpenatration applies indoors as well. Do you have kids? Are the police entering after your wife calls 911. Sure would suck to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, when 1 of the birds is your child or a LEO. Of course I dunno your situation, but overpenatraion should alwyas be a concern. Shit, I don't want to clean all the blood off the walls! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:51:32 PM EDT
[#20]
So are you of the opinion that 223 is not going to go thru drywall? 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:52:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Now for some Good Olde Tyme Arfcom slang... Good For You. I suggest you refer to Forest's words of wisdom above, and close your cockholster. You might learn something. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:52:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Geez, these guys with their magical shotguns are worse than the airsofters.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:54:03 PM EDT
[#23]
From ammo-oracle :
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:54:41 PM EDT
[#24]
1776 is cut of the same bolt of cloth as the airsofters. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:56:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Its good to see someone give up when they know they dont have a leg to stand on. I can understand you being new to the world of firearms and all but let the grown ups get on with this disscussion and go to your room. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:57:17 PM EDT
[#26]
 Junior, the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a bigger ass...and I wasn't even sure you could do that. Run along, now. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:59:48 PM EDT
[#27]
OK, OK I give up. Pump shotguns are the perfect solution to every defensive situation. That is precisely why police departments the world over have been dumping their M4 carbines for 870s and 500s for the last ten years.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:00:46 PM EDT
[#28]
you want less recoil, bigger pattern. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:02:12 PM EDT
[#29]
What exactly are you trying to prove? Shotguns and handguns are not good for home defense and an AR15 is sooooo much better? Where are you trying to hijack this thread to? Please do tell. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:04:58 PM EDT
[#30]
The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole. Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up. Are we all clear now? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:08:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Actually, Botch was asking about home defense RIFLES. That was before the team of tactical duck hunters showed up. How long before someone reccomends #6 shot for the old home defense shotgun? 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:10:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Aww, shit. Now I'm all confused.
You guys keep going with this...please. 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:10:23 PM EDT
[#33]
+1  Anything that will penetrate a man will penetrate sheetrock. You ALWAYS need to consider background. But squeezing off single rounds against an intruder isn't ideal. If some prick is in your house you want to rack the slide, point, and fire. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:10:28 PM EDT
[#34]
No you are the one who charged in here like superman and ripped your shirt off to expose the "S" on your chest. Go back and read your posts and tell me thats not how you came off. Thats when I took offence. Go ahead and re-read it. See? you came off like a know it all fuck jerk. The readers and posters in this thread deserve an apology from you. Be a man and step up. I will go first. Sorry for calling you out on your know it all attitude. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:10:48 PM EDT
[#35]
[FloydRTurbo]You jest rack the ol' deer gun and them sumbitches will piss in thar pants and run like a stripe-assed ape![/FRT]
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:13:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Okay, I'm sorry I pointed out you're a know-nothing fuckstick. Why do I get the feeling of arguing with a potted plant? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:13:34 PM EDT
[#37]
For home defenche you want a 1911 with a light and laded with 1/1 hydra shock/FMJ a 12ga with a shure fire and pistol grip loaded with 00-buck a backup .357 and a sub gun with a supresor
now this is just what i have read on this forum i have no firearms expereance with any thing other then a frends .410 single shot and some high power air rifles i acept no responceability for body harm/dismembermint or death it might be smart to take classes like CCW and go to thunder rige |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:14:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Yeah, and asshats like you.....
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:14:45 PM EDT
[#39]
..and it helps if ya got a mean 'ol look on yer face. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:16:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Dont apologise to me. You owe it to the readers and poster in this thread. Step up. BTW did you reread your posts? Most likly not, you're far too busy stroking your ego among other things. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:17:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quietshooter certainly doesn't owe me an apology. If anything, I think I'll apologize. I offered my own opinion but didn't contribute to answering the original question.
IBTL |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:17:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Actually, I have, but thanks for playing. Buckshot will spread atleast 4"...which last time I took out my calipers and checked, is a tiny bit wider than AR ammo...... And you know what, try and be civil...and let me get back to my spybook grampa. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:19:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Good point, he did ask the correct question and got wrong answers. +1000 on taking a course or 2. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:19:11 PM EDT
[#44]
.... and the best part is, if ya ever get ta shoot anybody with yer shotgun, they a go flyin' 'bout tweny feet up in tha air.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:22:43 PM EDT
[#45]
QuietShootr, you definitely owe me an apology. I hate it when when someone gets to correct the ignorant before I do.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:24:46 PM EDT
[#46]
I think QuietShooter nailed it as far as the AR goes. I do not think overpenetration is a problem if you hit your target. I believe the California Department of Corrections went back to the Mini-14 from a 9mm carbine because it was proven the .223 penetrated less.
I still believe the 12 ga with 00 Buck would be more likely to cause IMMEDIATE incapacitation I believe the AR with 55-70 grain bullets would work just fine in most home defense situations. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:25:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Please do tell.
The poster asked about a rifle for home defense. You and some other folks offered him some well-intentioned but misguided advice about shotguns. A couple of people who know what the hell they're talking about tried to steer him in the correct direction, and you showed up and started acting like an asshole. Yes, an M4 is better for home defense than a pistol or a shotgun, if it's properly set up. Are we all clear now? Yes, the poster did.....but merely suggesting a shotgun for home defense is a bad idea? No offense to the poster since this is an example that has nothing to do with him, but if he asked which samurai sword to use for home defense, wouldn't suggesting an alternative be appropriate? However, I'm enjoying pants dropping and ruler grabbing....
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:26:55 PM EDT
[#48]
If a guy posted asking about the best motorcycle for commuting to school, would you find a suggestion that he buy a ten-speed bike a useful answer? Edit: This water's cold....and deep, too. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:27:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Holy Shit! Mike Hammer like, just did that and junk! Chapter 5 is like, sooooo cool. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:28:39 PM EDT
[#50]
QuietShootr, do you and 1776 have some ongoing pissing contest or do you just normally come across as an arrogant prick?
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