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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:17:24 PM EDT
Between Special Weapons, and Vector Arms. I have not seen one in person. What are the goods and bads of these clones?
I'm specifically interested in Vector Arms' (V93) HK-93 in .223 with 17in barrel. How are their quality in finish and function? Any help is appreciated 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:20:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Special Weapons are said to be absolute crap... Vector not much better.
Ohio Rapid Fire makes the best and JLD makes very nice ones as well. ORF mosty uses JLD and SW receivers from what I have heard. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:20:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Vector Arms was using Special Weapons receivers last time I checked. Vector has a decent reputation for build quality. Most Special Wepaons guns work fine, a few need tweaking but I have never heard of one yet that couldn't be fixed.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:21:27 PM EDT
[#3]
For a G3-type (not a clone, but certainly the same lineage), look at the CAI CETMEs with the stainless recievers. I love mine.  |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:22:31 PM EDT
[#4]
SW is real bad. Save your money. Vector doesn't make a 9mm and their .223 works but looked kinda sloppy. If you want a 9mm carbine get over to the EE and preorder a Factory Colt 9mm AR15 for less than the price of either. Edit: Thought you said Hesse or SW. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:26:14 PM EDT
[#5]
I've seen lots that could never be made to function. Horrible pieces of garbage. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:27:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow, I didin't realize they're that bad... Is Hesse and Vector Arms the same company?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:29:32 PM EDT
[#7]
John Kerry single handedly killed more VC with Toad Baileys SpeshulWappons in Cambodia during Christmas 1968 than all other guns in history combined.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:30:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Actually I thought you said Hesse or SW. Vector does not make a 9mm HK rifle. They made really nice Uzis and they make a .223 rifle. I was not terribly impressed with their .223 overall but at least it worked. For the money I'd rather have a AR15. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:34:22 PM EDT
[#9]
+1 Ohio Rapid Fire is the best way to go. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:36:53 PM EDT
[#10]
How the hell could someone build a firearm that wouldn't function? I mean, jesus, the fucking Speshul Epuns models START at $1300. I guess Toady was blantantly raping gun owners' in the ass instead of beating around the bushes. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:41:12 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm specifically interested in Vector Arms' HK-93 in .223 with 17in barrel...
I went to Ohio Rapid Fire. They said their RF33 (like the HK-93) were build off Vector receivers. What makes Ohio Rapid Fire a better quality, is it the parts they use in their clones? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:43:15 PM EDT
[#12]
The PTR's aren't bad either.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 2:46:43 PM EDT
[#13]
I have a PTR and I can recommend it without any hesitation....
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:06:50 PM EDT
[#14]
ORF takes great pride in building a quality product. They use good parts in their clones and do a great job at assembling. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:11:43 PM EDT
[#15]
NOTHING could be further from the truth. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:13:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Probably doing what we had to do. Trigger packs were loose, sloppy welds and mag wells so tight you could load a mag faster than you could change one. They were so bad we took to selling custom smith rebuilgs where everything was corrected and the gun refinished. We are also building them from the ground up for the same reason. The Vector receiver is fine and with a decent kit and qualified smith can be a great rifle. But the factory ones looked like they just didn't care. I imagine that is more or less what ORF is doing. Here is our custom build in LE config.  They will be civie legal in a month. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:14:30 PM EDT
[#17]
tag
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:16:30 PM EDT
[#18]
MUCH less than a month now, Steyr... 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:18:27 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm gonna make people wait.... Anticipation.......it's making me wait...  Actually if anyone wants one they can get the project rolling right now. Just won't be built until AFTER the sunset. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:20:48 PM EDT
[#20]
What's your opinion on the PTR-91? I have one on the way this week that I got in a trade and was thinking of scoping it. The factory told me they get .5" to 1" groups regularly... If this one will hold groups like that, I will definitely scope it. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Did a group buy last year and all of us had bugs. Tight chambers and FTE with all types of ammo. Loose trigger pacs, cheesy US made furniture and I hated that rear peep sight. I paid to have my trigger pack professionally reshelfed to fit. JLD did this velcro thing for a shim, kinda ghetto if you ask me. Swapped out the furniture for US made stuff from Top Notch (it's not factory but was better) and JLD respec'd the chamber. Got it to where it would eat most ammo and sold it at a loss. I was a bit dissapointed as I wanted to make it a MSG90 type clone. Just not reliable enough for me to keep. Best attempt at a commercial G3 by anoyone and can be made into a reliable rifle with some work I'm sure. I just wasn't crazy about it out of the box. But I cannot stress this enough, it was light years ahead of CAI, Hesse and the usual suspects. When people come to me wanting a G3 type rifle I again go with a custom built, NEW HK parts on a JLD receiver. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 4:33:54 PM EDT
[#22]
I musta got a good one...my PTR-91 has been ultra reliable. It has fed and shucked every round and was, with 144gr Aussie surplus, shooting 1 inch or less groups at 100yd....I would bet that with match I can tighten that up....
I'm more than happy my PTR-91...  Some of the groups with the Aussie surplus 144gr ball...  |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 5:31:00 PM EDT
[#23]
What about POF?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:10:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Perhaps the current ones are improved. Got a pic? Is the furniture better these days? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:12:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Not offering semi rifles yet as far as I know. POF is Pakistani HK contract. While not quite true HK spec in my opinion it is a hell of a lot closer than any US manufacture I've seen so far. I'd love to see POF produce domestic semi auto HK rifles. I'd buy several. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:12:36 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:13:56 PM EDT
[#27]
 I don't think that the furniture is any better than the older ones....I can live with that for now. I will be changing that out in the future... I got for only $525 at a local shop....so..I have some more leway with my money that I can spend on it..... |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:14:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Ask, and ye shall receive.. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:17:57 PM EDT
[#29]
$1450 for one that has been redone by our smith. $1650 for one built right from the ground up and in LE config. LE models will have FACTORY German barrels and despite what certain people claim about that not being legal, once you satisfy 922r compliance it IS legal. Just like it is legal for DSA to use Steyr barrels. The long and short of it is, once you make a rifle 922r compliant, it is no longer a weapon which is "non-importable". The "re-interpretation" of the 89 ban, added receivers and barrels to the import restrictions, except for those used as "repair or replacement purposes" and not to build non-importable type rifles... Once you add the US made parts, it is then magically deemed "particularly suitable". |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:20:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Saw that on FA.com Only 2 problems. 1. POF-USA to announce very soon rifle sales to FFL dealers. 2. No mention of semi auto civie legal. If they are push pins even with a semi pack they are MGs. I'm gonna wait till I know for sure before I get a hard on. Be cool if he does it though. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:23:28 PM EDT
[#31]
The most important thing they did was get the cocking tube length right which means you can actually operate the action with one hand. Also doesn't look like it was welded together by a kid in auto shop high on meth. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:24:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Yeah, not trying to give you a stiffie, just a heads-up.. no pun intended
I think POF-USA is starting to realize, along with ORF and (to a degree) Vector, that there's a huge civvie market for these rifles. I've got a 91 now, but I'd buy a high quality 93 and 94 in a heartbeat. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:25:53 PM EDT
[#33]
I will buy one of each caliber and retire my pre89 imports to the back of the safe. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:30:12 PM EDT
[#34]
As would I, but the gotcha about these rifles is the mag prices. MP5 mags won't be bad once we can own all the LEO overstock, but I'll be hard pressed to pay $50 a pop for 93 mags when I can get NIW LaBelles for $15-$18. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 7:35:46 PM EDT
[#35]
I will gladly pay $50 a mag for 93 mags. I just bought 25 at that price and I used to pay as much as $125 per mag. Mags are a nickel and dime issue for me. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:25:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Now I'm not really an FFL-according to SteyerAug, but I would think twice about getting a PTR-91. I just had a customer who had to send his back for fail to extract problems-and before you say it, it was an #1800 serial number. They supposedly had all those problems fixed, but they don't. If you don't mind shelling out $800-$900 and then $30 both ways for shipping and about 3 weeks wait, go ahead and get one. If you want a fine bolt-action gun, get a PTR. But bring a ball peen hammer to the range with you to extract the cases. If you want a nice 91 clone, go the Ohio Rapid Fire route. Have Todd build you one on a PTR receiver (their receivers are nice, but their guns suck) with POF parts. That's what I am going to do after Sept. 13th.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:54:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Buy neither. Save your money and get a real HK. The satisfaction will more than compensate for the price. I've seen and shot both real HK's and clones...and theres no contest. After seeing and shooten a real HK, I could NEVER EVER get a clone. Trust me on this. Waiting is a bitch, I know, but in the end...you'll thank me.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 10:27:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Been over this 3 times now. I asked if you were a FFL, I never said you weren't. I asked because you weren't terribly specific. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 5:52:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Yea ok whatever...All I know, and I should because I own one, is that mine is a sweet shooter and I love it...at a fraction of a over-blown HK... And I never once needed a hammer at the range..... |
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