User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 4:28:15 AM EDT
[#1]
for the same reason the fuzz calls us "civilians" they are the government
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 4:31:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Police departments are often called "para-military organizations". This is because they have many of the aspects of the military, i.e., rank, uniforms, etc.
Burials are usually of the military style. Sorry that that police officer was so unthoughtful as to die and mess up your commute. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 4:38:25 AM EDT
[#3]
One reason for the major production is to remind the rest of you that a good man died protecting you. He got killed dealing with the sewage of society, you got to take a few minutes and reflect on that sacrifice. I kind of think people who die in the service of their nation, community or saving the lives of others, deserve a little respect from the average commuter. Especially since the average commuter is hard pressed to do more than call 911 and keep driving.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 4:41:04 AM EDT
[#4]
I just have one question. Now this from a very hormonal female right now, so be kind to me,
Did this officer deserve anything less then the funeral he was given? He after all charged into danger, without thinking of himself, he thought of saving others, he lost his life for it. It's not like the city of Indianapolis DIDN'T know the details of this, it is all we have heard about for days. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 4:42:56 AM EDT
[#5]
We had to issue alot of radios to guys that were in the procession, but normally work under cover. He was a good kid. I had to handle the radio they buried him with. Really makes you reflect on what it all means. Thats as good a reason as any for a traffic snarl.
PS Most of the guys were off duty. We had a bunch of town departments, (like beechgrove) working south district last night for IPD. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:00:27 AM EDT
[#6]
"On a side note, I'd like to give the person whom decided to have the 700 car funeral procession drive through Indy at rush hour, a piece of my mind. I'm sure most of these fellas had the day off, but those of us that may work more than one job were pretty much screwed when they basically shut down the downtown area."
Yeah, why don't you write them a fucking letter. Make sure to send a copy the cop's window and chidren so they know how fucking inconveinanced you were. I am sure they would be interested. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:03:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Actually, I think the correct term is quasi-military not para-military. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:08:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Thats fine...y'all can rip me for this...but can you tell me what more was served by having this funeral procession at this time of day? It certainly didn't honor him anymore than if the'd done it at 1 or 2 in the afternoon. In my opinion it was done to inconvience people. As I'm sitting there late for my next job, I can't help but that the purpose was to make people stop and deal with this. I just want to know why this officer was honored more by shutting down traffic in Indy for close to an hour...I just simply don't get it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:14:15 AM EDT
[#9]
I can somewhat understand ....
When my aunt died, the funeral procession went from the capitol city in Mississippi to a small town 50 miles away where my all of my mother's family is from. The traffic was backed up for miles because no one would pass us and they would drive only 45 mph or something .... when my mother died a few months later, I insisted that we drive the speed limit, they said they couldnt do that, I opted to not have the procession to the small town cemetary. We just all met there after the drive. I could not see delaying hundreds of motorists again like that. My grieving process did not require that. maybe a policeman is different, he is a visual part of the community, I would not have a problem with the traffic for a funeral for ANYBODY ... but it is just my preference not to in-convenience so many people. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:14:21 AM EDT
[#10]
We are a sworn agency. We take our profession seriously. Most of the time we take report runs, accident reports, find runaway children and unfortunately, write traffic tickets. Every day that a LEO goes to work, there is a chance that it will be their last. Certainly, the risk involved in everyday life for anyone could hold as much danger. People are killed in car accidents; construction workers fall from high places, white-collar workers die from stress related heart attacks. The difference is that police intentionally go in harms way. Maybe not often, sometimes never depending on the department. When they are called they must go. There is no other solution. They do not have the option of calling anyone except for each other. On those rare occasions the reason they became an officer is called to the test. Officer Tim Laird, an Ex-Marine and 16 year IPD veteran answered the call on August 18th, 2004. We buried him yesterday.
Sorry for your inconvenience. Hopefully we won't have to tie up traffic with another officer's funeral ever again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:15:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Thats fine...I suppose I am just missing the point here. Not trying to trying to sou8nd like an ass, but I'm quite sure thats how I'm coming across. My bad. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:17:35 AM EDT
[#12]
I believe the funeral was to begin at 11:30 am.. someone correct if I am wrong there. It started nearly an hour late because of all the LEO coming in from all over, not just Indy. It lasted app. 2 hrs. Like I said before, it was all over the news for several days, down to the route they were going to take. Plan ahead, use a different route. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:18:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Excuse me if this is a sensitive question, but am I to understand a working radio was buried with the fallen officer? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:38:04 AM EDT
[#14]
No...it is, in fact para-military. Fire departments are also para-military organizations, there is even an old saying sometimes repeated to rookies that goes "The fire department is a para-military oganization, our job is to protect lives and property, and keep water flowing" |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:54:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Good grief! 'Para-military' organizations'? I haven't heard that phrase since the civil disturbances down in Central America! Or when referring to facist nations! That sort of language is, quite frankly, obscene for use in this Country!
It's a part of the new 'military' mindset. The funeral should be a civilian affair. Or is there some lack of connection that the surviving officers feel with civilians?
How do you equate a Member asking about this aspect of an LEO funeral with some sort of 'glee' or 'insouisance' over the officer's death? What 'mindset' should we call that?  Old_Painless, just ask yourself if that was something that... Nope. Nevermind! Eric The(Sheesh!)Hun 
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 5:56:48 AM EDT
[#16]
get back in line, plebian... no complaining! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 6:01:18 AM EDT
[#17]
ding ding ding...... Sorry, After a few years in Seattle, I have become very disgusted with LEO's as a general rule. They have to come out of the chute doing the right thing for me to even give them any slack. That said, an police officers funeral, while it should be totally civilain, can take all fucking day if they need to. And if you dont like that, dont ever call 911 and ask them to risk shit for your ass. PS- Sorry you were late for work. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 6:07:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Shutting down traffic is a guaranteed way of making sure everyone is aware of the funeral |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 6:10:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Once again, what is the connection with what you do as a profession with what the military does? When did 'military-style' funerals become de rigeur for LEOs in this country? Anything that serves to place some sort of 'veil' between law officers and the civilians who they serve is anti-Republican! So y'all NOT understand this? It's like being a civilian is second class citizenship nowadays. Well, it ain't and it will never be! Eric The(Sheesh!)Hun
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 6:32:52 AM EDT
[#20]
When I started my career as a Patrolman in 1970, funerals had been "military style" for years in our area. It was done as a sign of respect. And, as you well, know, I do not use obscene language.
That seems to be your opinion. I guess if the fallen officer is your son or brother, you can make that decision. However, this fine man's family choose a military style funeral. They have every right to do so.
The "surviving officers" do not choose the funeral arangements. The grieving family does.
Where did I mention "'glee' or 'insouisance' over the officer's death"? I didn't say that.
What's up Eric? You are a fine gentleman and usually levelheaded. You disappoint me with your attitude towards honest policemen, of which I am proud to be (an ex-) one. |
||||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 6:39:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Because he died in the armed service of his Nation, State, and locality. In that order as that is the order in which you swear to uphold the law on the oath of office. In short, he died so you or some other poor slob wouldn't have to.
Hun, In the east Formal Police style funerals that bear some resemblence to military funerals, have been the norm since roughly the 1860s. It is expected and proper. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 6:51:24 AM EDT
[#22]
It seems we've hit upon one of Erics "trigger" topics When did 'military-style' funerals become de rigeur for LEOs in this country? Ever since there have been officers. I have a picture of a 1931 police funeral in Manhattan that would give you fits. It has ARMORED CARS with 30 cal Brownings in the procession Anything that serves to place some sort of 'veil' between law officers and the civilians who they serve is anti-Republican! Really. Then why is every police funeral I've ever been to 95% non-LEO, almost all of whom never knew the officer? So y'all NOT understand this? It's like being a civilian is second class citizenship nowadays. Well, it ain't and it will never be! I went to military funeral for a "civilian" just last month. 4 years Coast Guard and he left the service in 1969. I don't have a problem with it, actually thought is was a nice touch. Oh. To head off the next line of wailing, I'm told the Indy officer was a former Marine. Eric The(Sheesh!)Hun Eric, The occasion is a funeral for a good man and a good officer. Could we lay off of the personal agendas for just a little bit? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:00:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Post from Old_Painless:
But that doesn't follow. My Grandfather was a hero from WWI and he received a very respectful funeral. Simply because there was nothing more than a US flag atop his coffin, he didn't receive a 'respectful' funeral? It must be 'military-style' in order to be respectful? And for LEOs, as well, it simply MUST be 'military-style' or it's not respectful?
'Obscene' is not merely limited to curse words, but to odious words, as well. And 'para-military organization' is a FOUR LETTER WORD in a Republic!
Yes, let's make it personal so that I can request that the President and Pope both appear alongside each other at my 'son's' funeral! LEOs can do as they wish when they attend their friends' funerals. But to make a 'military' spectacle is wrong. IMHO, of course.
Hmmm. [deleted after some heavy consideration]
Are they ever informed that a private, non-military type affair might be preferable. Or would the LEO organizations be up in arms?
Nothing other than any thing that places a 'veil' of any nature between the law officer and the citizens they are paid to protect is not very smart~ Not from a political standpoint. Not from a moral standpoint.
Thanks! I can agree with that, as edited. 
You are so wrong about my attitude towards LEOs. You presume to believe that I think one way, when I actually think just the opposite! But you are a citizen! That is all that either of us are. Your former co-workers are only citizens and should be proud of that. Somehow, I do not think that is the case. As a matter of fact, I can almost swear that this is not the case. All creatures are created equal. Some are created more equal than others. ~ George Orwell, Animal Farm Is that really what we desire for this country? Eric The(GodIsNotARespecterOfPersons)Hun
|
||||||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:07:51 AM EDT
[#24]
I think the widow wanted the police funeral. She had the option. We wanted to pay our respects to our fallen comrade. As is the custom, a lot of other departments send representatives to the funeral. That usually means a long funeral train.
We could have had a much shorter funeral train if we were burying a lawyer... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:10:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Those who where in the military get the choice of a military burial anyway.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:11:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Well that is cute! I don't expect the nation to mourn my passing. And I would ask that the Courts NOT be closed and that attorneys from all over Texas and nearby states NOT attend at the expense of the citizenry! That shows you that even lawyers can be thrifty and respectful of the public trough. Eric The(WiseBeyondHisEars)Hun
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:12:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Last LOD death I attended the train was about 4 miles long and included most agencies in this state, a few from Surrounding states and the feds. This is the normal and customary practice. Having arranged these things all too frequently in the past, I can tell you that it is always up to the family to decide how much or little they want the department to do.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:14:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Respect for flag
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. I couldn't find the correct reference, but this as close as it gets. Military, fireman, and policemen are all concidered patriotic oranizations, thus a military style funeral. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:15:54 AM EDT
[#29]
I take exception to all the statements about how cops "die to protect us" ,"died so we wouldn't have to". Cops uphold the law, they are not our bodyguards. I will never call 911 expecting a cop to come "save me". Remember Columbine?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:16:57 AM EDT
[#30]
How many families choose the simple, 'going to meet your Maker' approach? About 'None'? I've even attended a funeral in Shreveport for a Shreveport Policeman who died in a single car accident with a woman NOT his wife in the car with him. About 3:00 AM in another Parish. The cuckolded wife apparently decided for the 'military-style' over the less ostentatious private ceremony! Now that was ONE brave lady! Eric The(Perplexed)Hun
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:32:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Yeah yeah, whatever. Newsflash here buddy. You were not at Columbine. Neither was this officer, or for that matter anyone else in this thread. There is no connection except in your sweaty little brain. Maybe it's time you went back to role playing games where you can pretend to be better than you are?  Meanwhile try not to scream like a girl into the phone. the 911 operators really hate that.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:34:37 AM EDT
[#32]
So. you are slamming widows now? Eric, I expected more class from you. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:40:16 AM EDT
[#33]
'Slamming widows'? How'd you read that in there, Sir? I called her 'one brave lady', which, under the circumstances, she surely was! You don't think so, well, that's simply your opinion. That's how it works! Eric The(Simplistic)Hun
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:43:33 AM EDT
[#34]
I don't give a rats ass what you take exception to. You tried to be one, couldn't didn't like it whatever and moved on. Some stayed around and gave it their all. You have done that a couple of times in different professions. Sometimes the world is not going to work out to your liking. Thats the way things are. Hun: I find it grossly uncharacteristic of you to so dishonor the fallen. Someone dying in the service of others is deserving a noble send off. I am actually quite offended that you have persisted in this manner in this thread and I'm extremely hard to offend. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 7:55:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Post from shotar -
Then you should STOP and think about that for a minute! Why would I show any dishonor towards anyone? That would be uncharacteristic of me, I would think. So, what you perceive to be 'dishonor' is not that at all. It is respect for the manner in which our nation has operated since Day One. There are no Titles, no Royalty, no Estates, no Peerage, no Coats of Arms, nothing but common citizens! Even our military prides itself on being 'citizen-soldiers' in times of War. But these 'all military, all of the time' LEOs that seem NOT to know the difference between Fallujah and Fargo are ruining this relationship with their pompous attitudes. Pompous attitudes that say that the death of an officer in a high speed chase is much more tragic than the two civilians killed when struck by the fleeing criminals' car!
So, unless it's 'military style' it's less than a 'noble send off'? I ain't buying that, at all! That shows a degree of 'Our Deaths' versus 'their deaths' that should be reserved for military cemeteries! Not here, Stateside, among folks who are NOT soldiers.
Anything that separates LEOs from the population that they serve is counterproductive to a good healthy Republic! If that is offensive to you, then your views might well be offensive to the Founding Fathers! Sorry, but I did not mean to offend you, or anyone else. Any more than I wish to be offended. Eric The(Mortal)Hun
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 8:09:21 AM EDT
[#36]
GREAT WORDS AND THOUGHTS ERIC. chicago does it like a police funneral, usually bagpipes not quite military not quite "civilian". i think its a good compromise.
a lot of cops seem to think of their jobs as militaristic and those are the ones that need to learn they are not military, and that military type funnerals should be reserved for military geesh whats next libraians wanting military funnerals, after all they are public servants btw, who has the legal authoruty to order the america flag to be flown at half mast? i know its a custom to do it when cops die, but is it "legal"? i thought only the president has that power, but i could be wrong |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 8:19:25 AM EDT
[#37]
"Such training, and the militarization of police equipment and dress, have, I believe, encouraged cops to look upon themselves as an elite, apart from and above the rabble. That is reinforced by the official folklore about how dangerous police work is, and how cops 'put their lives on the line' to protect us poor peasants. In fact, police work is far less hazardous than occupations such as mining, farming, and construction, along with many other mundane pursuits that aren't celebrated in nine TV dramas every night....
"While miners or farmers don't give their colleagues 21-gun salutes when they buy it on the job, police funerals have become ridiculous self-parodies. Every time a cop dies, whether 'in the line of duty' or not, the funeral seems to become more absurdly pompous and elaborate, with battalions of cops in dress uniform and white gloves saluting their fallen comrade and great flotillas of shiny motorcycles and police cars escorting him to his final rest, at the same time massively tying up traffic for the serfs. "(And what's the deal with all the bagpipes?) "They even give fallen police dogs official funerals with full honors, in sharp contrast to their attitude toward our dogs. "The result of all this esprit de corps - this emphasis on police 'otherness' - must inevitably be contempt toward the public. "It's only a small step from there to seeing regular people as the enemy. In fact, in plenty of places it looks as though that step has been taken." This was taken from a Libertarian, anti-Government website, so, although it doesn't particularly fit my own opinions, I think I understand where this fellow is going. There cannot be two sets of citizens in this Country; we tried that once and all it got us was a War Between the States! Eric The(DoomedToRepeatHistory)Hun
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 8:23:09 AM EDT
[#38]
The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 8:54:15 AM EDT
[#39]
GO ERIC!!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 8:58:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Well, it seems we've reached a new low around here. Arfcommers now think that they have the perogative to critique how families bury their dead.
It's not your call guys. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:14:03 AM EDT
[#41]
In our area we have used the same protocal for police funerals since the war of southern humiliation. I see no reason to change it now and as John said, its the families call. I for one wouldn't mind the pipes and many simply like to know that someone cared about their loved one and recognizes that there are foreign and DOMESTIC enemies to this republic. We employ the military to defend against the foreign, but since we defeated the southern rebels, we have found using the police to keep the domestic enemies in check to be more than sufficient.
Shot( long live reconstruction )AR. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:14:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Imagine if every person that died literally tied up traffic for hours. How many people die per day in a major city? It's nice to say that the family got the funeral how they wanted, but it wouldn't quite be a pragmatic approach if everyone did it (which it seems everyone should be able to be, because we do not have different classes of citizens, do we?). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:17:42 AM EDT
[#43]
It's actually NOT how families bury their dead, now, is it? Do the families pay for all the overtime, pay, insurance costs, wear and tear on equipment, etc., that having half the State's resources tied up in a funeral service must cost taxpayers? EVEN if the family is writing the check to pay for everything, I would STILL have a problem with a 'military-style' funeral for non-military citizens! LEOs are NOT military, and their jobs are no more hazardous than others! If you believe anything beyond that, I'm sorry, but I can't help you! We have reached a point where IF the fallen LEO is not given a military style funeral worthy of a Caesar, we have somehow disgraced that officer! If 5 Counties send representatives for one, then 10 Counties must send reps for the next one! Eric The(KeepItSimpleAndDignified)Hun
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:19:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Not going to bother. This whole thread is pretty disgusting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:20:20 AM EDT
[#45]
I suggest some college level sociology courses to accurately answer your question. There is insufficient bandwidth available on arfcom to give your question a true and accurate answer. It is customary to give those who died in the service of their fellow citizens certain respects, courtesies and honors. Being allowed to tie up traffic and have their last ride home unimpeded is one of them. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:22:35 AM EDT
[#46]
I really think it just isn't up to us.
However, I want to know exactly what characteristics or qualities would make it military? If you are talking about a long procession, many funerals have that. If you are talking a gun salute, well police officers (at least in this country) use guns in the line of duty. If you are talking about the flag, well I feel that police officers oath is just as strong (or weak) as anyone who might join the military. I'm not sure what you are taking offense to. I think it is just a way of paying respect to someone who serves the community (no matter how much or how little they actually did). I don't see it as separating us and them in this respect. However, there is a certain amount of difference between leo and civvies. They theortically have duties above what the normal civilian does and in that they need to have certain extra rights (can speed when necessary, etc. ) Of course I don't think they have any more 2nd amendment rights than the rest of us, but I know that in general, they do a more dangerous job than me and usually don't get much respect for it. just my opinion. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:22:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Sorry, but your attempted jibes at this Unreconstructed Rebel will NOT get you the reaction that you might expect! But it SHOULD rile some Southern LEOs, but then again, they may 'feel' more attachment to their Brethren than to some failed Lost Cause from two centuries ago. They're Granddaddies oughta tan their hides for that, but that's a whole 'nother thread! Yes indeed, some LEOs die in the practice of their profession. That is regrettable, indeed. But no more regrettable than the death of any other citizen. Do you agree with that, shotar? If not, why not? Eric The(Sensible)Hun
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:25:14 AM EDT
[#48]
BTW hun, we don't pay overtime for funerals. Everyone is on their own time or if working on regular time while attending or escorting. Those on their own time are there because they feel the need to be. The difference is that those other so called dangerous professions are not in the business of going towards dangerous situations. Those in the Public safety realm are. No one said it should be the same as a military funeral. While it is similar there are differences and I'll thank you to keep your arguments to that which is civil and decent. None of which you have displayed here with a complete lack of consderation for the dead, the widow, or those who served with him.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:25:35 AM EDT
[#49]
remember that police dog that was buried with bagpipes playing and and honor guard and all that?
did his family choose that type of funeral? i hope i get to die a heroic death. i really want a para-military style viking funeral...with lots of beer...and i want a helmet with horns...and a 21-sword salute....and i want the boat shoved down the cuyahoga river where it can burn naturally. but...i don't want bagpipes. i hate bagpipes. maybe you guys can chip in and get ted to play "cat scratch fever" for me? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2004 9:29:27 AM EDT
[#50]
I also would like to know what exactly you consider a "military style" funeral. We have a POLICE style funeral for Officers. We have different layouts depending on the status of the Officer. ie: LOD deaths are different than others.
Your question about who pays for the overtime: I can only answer for my area, NO overtime is paid for these funerals. everyone there is on their own time unless they are working their normal duty day.....I'm sure the fuel expended for a funeral procession across town is enormous 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
