Attention K-Mart Shoppers: K-Mart sells stores to Home Depot, Sears

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Attention K-Mart Shoppers: K-Mart sells stores to Home Depot, Sears (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 8/23/2004 2:04:36 AM EDT

Kmart's store sales might cost jobs

Report: Retailer could terminate as many as 1,200 positions stemming from stores sold to Home Depot.
August 20, 2004: 10:06 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Kmart Holdings Corp.'s sale of 13 stores to home-improvement retailer Home Depot Inc. could cost as many as 1,200 jobs, according to a report published Friday.

According to its recently amended deal with Home Depot (HD: Research, Estimates), Troy, Mich.-based Kmart said it will sell no fewer than 13 and possibly up to 19 stores to Home Depot for $288.5 million.

The Detroit Free Press, quoting Kmart spokesman Steve Pagnani, said the Kmart employees being laid off will receive no severance pay but will receive benefits owed to them such as unused vacation time.

Kmart on Thursday identified the stores being sold to Home Depot, the report said. The first three stores to close later this month are in Hanover, Pa.; New Milford, Conn., and Champaign, Ill.

Other stores set to close in October are in Broomhall, Pa.; Tempe, Ariz.; Huntington Beach, Orange, Seaside, and Thousand Oaks, Calif.; Coconut Grove and Jacksonville Beach, Fla., and Levitown, N.Y.

The 13th store, in Dallas, has been vacant since 2003, the report said.

Home Depot owns leases on the other nine stores for $114 million, the report said, and is expected to close on up to six more leased stores by the end of August.

Kmart emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in May 2003. While it has significantly streamlined operations, closing 599 stores and slashing 67,000 jobs, its sales are eroding rapidly.

Kmart also has a separate deal to sell 54 of its stores to Sears, Roebuck and Co. for up to $621 million. Sears plans to occupy those stores by April 2005, report said, when approximately 5,000 more Kmart workers will lose their jobs.

Posted: 8/23/2004 2:15:57 AM EDT

[#1]

No big deal here, in the South. Sure it has an effect - but this is "employment at will" territory. So screw the employees - who cares?

But up North....uh oh. That's Union counrty. Not giving severence pay to take care of long standing, faithful employees? Trouble astir!!! They better watch their backs! The States up North advocate Unions to protect people who may find themselves in "lay-off" situations. Put in 19 years? Well it ain't 20 - HA! F/O! Not in a Union State. Those 19 year faithful employees will be taken care of.

Down South? FORGET the Unions! Employment at will, dammit! If I work 19 years and 360 days and get laid off - F**k it - I'm all for non-union labor and all I deserve is my vacation pay!

[/rant]

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:27:35 AM EDT

[#2]

opinions?

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:35:00 AM EDT

[#3]

If the union employees have issues with KMart, they need to take it up with their union. Face it, union members work for their union and not for their real employer. If a union member ends up losing his retirement, his union is at fault since they obviously allowed this loophole in the collective bargaining agreement.

KMart stopped being relevent when WalMart took hold. The unions are one of several huge reasons why KMart will disappear.

The whole idea that you deserve high wages for being a clerk at an overgrown five-and-dime is incomprehensible.

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:48:57 AM EDT

[#4]

Sorry my friend, that didn't make a lot of sense to me. So Unions are to blame for K-mart's demise? Proof? And you address nothing about the non-union workers getting screwed by the "employment at will" States.

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:56:50 AM EDT

[#5]

Unions forced KMart to have higher operating costs and as a result made them less competitive in the market.

BTW, just because someone makes an accurate statement and you don't agree with it doesn't mean that statement doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense to you.

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:59:10 AM EDT

[#6]

Kmart can also thank ther erstewhile spokeswhale Rosie for alienating a good part of their customer base. I used to get film developed there + would usually pick up a few things, but after Rosie went after the firearms community, I stopped shopping COMPLETELY there. Might have been only a few hundred bucks a year, but it adds up.

Posted: 8/23/2004 3:59:57 AM EDT

[#7]

GOOD.

Kmart sucks.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:02:48 AM EDT

[#8]

Closing a store usually means the people that work at the store lose their jobs. There is no "employment for life, you owe me a living" clause in most union contracts.

I wrote Kmart off when they got into the anti-gun thing.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:05:46 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Unions forced KMart to have higher operating costs and as a result made them less competitive in the market.

BTW, just because someone makes an accurate statement and you don't agree with it doesn't mean that statement doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense to you.

And this rhetoric can be proven how? This is supposed to be true because it falls in line with your belief system?

Ha-Ha, I don't think so. And you've still evaded my question twice about at-will employment consequences.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:20:41 AM EDT

[#10]

Since an employee can quit at any moment, I don't see why it's such a crime they can be laid off at any moment as well.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:25:09 AM EDT

[#11]

No big surprise here. Just like Hechinger....another example of not changing with the times. The future of dept. stores is Target - clean , well managed stores. I'm surprised they have held on this long.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:26:01 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Since an employee can quit at any moment, I don't see why it's such a crime they can be laid off at any moment as well.

Self preservation maybe? Come to work for my company. I'll promise you retirement benefits after 20 years of faithful employment to last you well into your senior years. No, wait, after 19 years - since its employment at will - the hell with your dedication, buh-bye. No benefits for you.

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:50:32 AM EDT

[#13]

Yes I totaly agree!!!! I was with a company for eight faithful, loyal years and company downsized then said ok don't need you bye bye"Employment at will" F them

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:53:38 AM EDT

[#14]

You mean that after 8 years you hadn't increased your value to the company where they wanted to keep you?

What did you do during those years to inprove your skillset so that you could bargain for a better job somewhere else?

Or did you stagnate and become too expensive to keep?

Posted: 8/23/2004 4:58:38 AM EDT

[#15]

82nd,

This is basic economics. Money flows to the most efficient. WalMart is more efficient at delivering the goods to its customers. KMart became less efficient. One of the reasons KMart is near death is from higher labor costs.

Do you have any basic grasp of free markets? This is so simple. It scares me when I run into adults who don't seem to have a clue about the costs of running a business and what it takes to make money.

The purpose of a business is to make money. If hiring employees increases profits, then employees will be hired. But if an employee costs more than what they produce, they get in the way of a company making money.

No one has an obligation to have employees. No one has an obligation to go into business. No one forces people to go to work at a particular company. It is all free choice.

Anything else just doesn't work. It is bound to fail.

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:03:03 AM EDT

[#16]

I started a the bottom of the old ladder worked my way up. I demonstrated my quality of work and worth. No did not become stagnate just too expensive for them. So again "Employment at will" F them

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:25:28 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
You mean that after 8 years you hadn't increased your value to the company where they wanted to keep you?

What did you do during those years to inprove your skillset so that you could bargain for a better job somewhere else?

Or did you stagnate and become too expensive to keep?

There is also the case of management raping a company - plenty of examples of 7 figure salaries taken by execs who gutted companies, destroyed their stock's value & broke promises to employees. Most employees do not have a legal firm on retainer, and cannot afford to challenge a compnay to live up to it's stated obligations - if you have a claim of a few thousand dollars, a company will tell you to fuck off, and be 95% certain that you do not have the resources or the stomach to pursue it.

It's about integrity, and I can tell you personally of a few CEO's I have known, including at least one who sits at the top of an NYSE company, who have looked employees in the eye and lied to them. Capitalism is not at question, it's personal integrity, and many executives have NONE.

(Samuel Gompers himself stated that if employers were decent (he was referring to George Westinghouse) that there would be no need for unions.

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:32:39 AM EDT

[#18]

kmart has been out of business for 20 years. they just haven't figured it out yet.

mike

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:35:00 AM EDT

[#19]

I have a union representing me now and they are screwing me. They have already cost me way over $1,000 and they'll cost me even more as time goes on.

GunLvr

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:38:06 AM EDT

[#20]

Firing an employee is known as the economic death penalty for a reason.

These companies that are moving their operations to India, Mexico, and China are killing the futures of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Every penny that WalMart stock goes up in value is a few thousand children condemed to a life as a member of the 'working poor'.

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:48:00 AM EDT

[#21]

These people are not out of jobs at all. Other retalers are moving in and they can get jobs there. I was in a Kmart the other day and the place was barren...nothing on the shelves and a lot more expensive than other places. I only buy the red tag items...I got a 100 rnd shot shell box for $2. The last time they closed stored I got 2 leatherman waves for $30 each.

Posted: 8/23/2004 5:57:17 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
82nd,

This is basic economics. Money flows to the most efficient. WalMart is more efficient at delivering the goods to its customers. KMart became less efficient. One of the reasons KMart is near death is from higher labor costs.

Do you have any basic grasp of free markets? This is so simple. It scares me when I run into adults who don't seem to have a clue about the costs of running a business and what it takes to make money.

The purpose of a business is to make money. If hiring employees increases profits, then employees will be hired. But if an employee costs more than what they produce, they get in the way of a company making money.

No one has an obligation to have employees. No one has an obligation to go into business. No one forces people to go to work at a particular company. It is all free choice.

Anything else just doesn't work. It is bound to fail.

Yeah, I get all that. I didn't think we were arguing business economics and capitalism. That point is neither here nor there.

WHAT we're talking about is job security and employment benefits. You seem to agree that an employee entering the job market, trusting the company which hires him, promising retirment benefits, and then deciding, to hell with him - after 15 years - we don't owe him squat.

I'm SURE you'd feel just dandy being 60 years old, on the brink of your golden years, looking forward to that pension and having your company say, "ah, employment at will - take a hike, start over."

That would be just fine with you, right? Yeah, paint me another picture.

Unions prevent crap like that from happening.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:03:03 AM EDT

[#23]

So Home Depot is buying at least 13 Kmart locations and 1200 people lose their jobs. Well the average Home Depot employs 150 Associates, and has much better pay and benefits. Thats 1950 better jobs replacing 1200 jobs with a poorly run company. Sounds like a fantastic deal for those communities to me....

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:07:56 AM EDT

[#24]

The old Kmart store closest to me has been closed for at least a year, probably more. They put up a sign a little bit ago that said shortly a "McClendon Hardware, iirc, is opening soon.

The KMart people were gone long ago, these are new jobs in this area.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:18:05 AM EDT

[#25]

You bring up the Constitution for your gun rights.

The Constitution is the greatest device for free enterprise and capitalism but bring up the possibility of losing your job after XX years of faithful service AND WATCH THE GOD DAMN SOCIALISTS, MARXISTS, LENINISTS...... THAT LOVE GUNS COME OUT OF THE FUCKING WOODWORK.

You fucks would be the next I'd shoot after fighting along side of you in the violent re-establishment of the Constitution...........if it ever comes to that.

Dave[theifitismycompanyIcanhireandfireasIseefitinthisfreecountry]S

YOU SOCIALIST ECONOMICS FUCKS DON'T WANT TO BE FIRED/LAYED OFF AFTER SO MANY FAITHFUL YEARS...............START YOUR OWN GOD DAMN COMPANY. ASSHOLES.

BTW, I was laid-off 30APR04.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:23:44 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
You bring up the Constitution for your gun rights.

The Constitution is the greatest device for free enterprise and capitalism but bring up the possibility of losing your job after XX years of faithful service AND WATCH THE GOD DAMN SOCIALISTS, MARXISTS, LENINISTS...... THAT LOVE GUNS COME OUT OF THE FUCKING WOODWORK.

You fucks would be the next I'd shoot after fighting along side of you in the violent re-establishment of the Constitution...........if it ever comes to that.

Dave[theifitismycompanyIcanhireandfireasIseefitinthisfreecountry]S

So you'd be just tickled to be on the brink of retirement and end up losing your job - because it would represent your idealism of "this free country", right? HmmHmm, yeah....sing it to someone else.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:26:51 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
So Home Depot is buying at least 13 Kmart locations and 1200 people lose their jobs. Well the average Home Depot employs 150 Associates, and has much better pay and benefits. Thats 1950 better jobs replacing 1200 jobs with a poorly run company. Sounds like a fantastic deal for those communities to me....

Yup, what a great deal - nothing like starting over. Put 16 years in Kmart. Kmart fails. You get a job at Home Depot starting at year one again. That's terrific - what happens 15 years later when Home depot goes down the tubes? Start again.....and then again?

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:27:03 AM EDT

[#28]

Just my $.02. No one owes anyone anything....That's just the way it works. It may be me someday, but I'm not putting my faith in a company or union. It would be unwise to look at it any other way.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:32:10 AM EDT

[#29]

I had one incident at Kmart that has turned me against them for a long time.
We wanted to buy a vacuum cleaner. We looked at the ones on display, saw the model we wanted. None on the shelf though. So, we walk over and hit the little button on the call box. The speaker does its announcement thing. We wait....and wait....and the speaker announces again...and we wait...and a Kmart employee walks by one row down from us, looks at us as she walks by....we wait....the speaker announces....she walks back by, looking at us again!!!....we realize that no one in Kmart gives a shit.

Oh, and their sporting goods section sucks. And they usually only have 2-3 guns in the cabinet. Oh, and their return policy sucks compared to WalMart.

I only go there now if the wife wants to look at some curtains or something. She likes the Martha Stewart stuff.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:40:49 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

So you'd be just tickled to be on the brink of retirement and end up losing your job - because it would represent your idealism of "this free country", right? HmmHmm, yeah....sing it to someone else.

Waaaa…Waaaaa…. You owe me jobs for life…….I’m entitled to a retirement program….Waaaaaaaaaaa…… Want your pacifier now?????? No one owes you anything.
If you did not / do not plan for the potential of your job “Going South”, you have no one to blame but yourself. Grow a pair and accept responsibility for you future, but then it IS easier to blame the ‘evil Corporations’, Waaaaaa….. Waaaaaaaaaaaa………

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:41:04 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You bring up the Constitution for your gun rights.

The Constitution is the greatest device for free enterprise and capitalism but bring up the possibility of losing your job after XX years of faithful service AND WATCH THE GOD DAMN SOCIALISTS, MARXISTS, LENINISTS...... THAT LOVE GUNS COME OUT OF THE FUCKING WOODWORK.

You fucks would be the next I'd shoot after fighting along side of you in the violent re-establishment of the Constitution...........if it ever comes to that.

Dave[theifitismycompanyIcanhireandfireasIseefitinthisfreecountry]S

So you'd be just tickled to be on the brink of retirement and end up losing your job - because it would represent your idealism of "this free country", right? HmmHmm, yeah....sing it to someone else.

82ndAbn, why aren't you a mod at DU? You could be the god mod of the economics forum.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:45:00 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:

So you'd be just tickled to be on the brink of retirement and end up losing your job - because it would represent your idealism of "this free country", right? HmmHmm, yeah....sing it to someone else.

Waaaa…Waaaaa…. You owe me jobs for life…….I’m entitled to a retirement program….Waaaaaaaaaaa…… Want your pacifier now?????? No one owes you anything.
If you did not / do not plan for the potential of your job “Going South”, you have no one to blame but yourself. Grow a pair and accept responsibility for you future, but then it IS easier to blame the ‘evil Corporations’, Waaaaaa….. Waaaaaaaaaaaa………

Everyone wants to regurgitate some rhetoric - no one wants to directly address what I've said.

That's pretty lame.

You'll be crying yourself a river if you find yourself in that position. And don't give me that lame assed retort, "buh, buh, I done put away mah monies juss in case dis happens." Yeah, RIGHT. Everyone has that much cash, sure.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:46:16 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
82ndAbn, why aren't you a mod at DU? You could be the god mod of the economics forum.

AAAAANNNDDDD, there you have it folks - his best response.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:48:09 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
You bring up the Constitution for your gun rights.

The Constitution is the greatest device for free enterprise and capitalism but bring up the possibility of losing your job after XX years of faithful service AND WATCH THE GOD DAMN SOCIALISTS, MARXISTS, LENINISTS...... THAT LOVE GUNS COME OUT OF THE FUCKING WOODWORK.

You fucks would be the next I'd shoot after fighting along side of you in the violent re-establishment of the Constitution...........if it ever comes to that.

Dave[theifitismycompanyIcanhireandfireasIseefitinthisfreecountry]S

YOU SOCIALIST ECONOMICS FUCKS DON'T WANT TO BE FIRED/LAYED OFF AFTER SO MANY FAITHFUL YEARS...............START YOUR OWN GOD DAMN COMPANY. ASSHOLES.

BTW, I was laid-off 30APR04.

er, I DID start my own business, a number of years ago, doing fine, thanks.

that does not excuse the behavior of certain management types who lie to employees (if you knew anyone in HR, you would be AMAZED at the things companies will do to get out of obligations)

It's not about socialism, I don't think anyone is OWED anything. I DO have a problem with people in management who do not KEEP THEIR WORD. There are many many decent people running companies. There are also liars, and that's where the problems start.

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:50:53 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So Home Depot is buying at least 13 Kmart locations and 1200 people lose their jobs. Well the average Home Depot employs 150 Associates, and has much better pay and benefits. Thats 1950 better jobs replacing 1200 jobs with a poorly run company. Sounds like a fantastic deal for those communities to me....

Yup, what a great deal - nothing like starting over. Put 16 years in Kmart. Kmart fails. You get a job at Home Depot starting at year one again. That's terrific - what happens 15 years later when Home depot goes down the tubes? Start again.....and then again?

Yes. Thats what happens when companies go bankrupt. If you had been with Kmart for 16 years you knew the end was coming, Kmart has had a terrible balance sheet for a long time now. Home Depot currently has 3.8 BILLION in cash, I don't think they will be filing chapter 11 anytime soon.....

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:58:17 AM EDT

[#36]

Somebody mentioned Target ; I went to the target here and everything was double what you could buy it for it sucked I call it 'prepackaged Hell ' Their ammo selection was sorry as well. Just my experience though .............................

Posted: 8/23/2004 6:59:04 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

So you'd be just tickled to be on the brink of retirement and end up losing your job - because it would represent your idealism of "this free country", right? HmmHmm, yeah....sing it to someone else.

Waaaa…Waaaaa…. You owe me jobs for life…….I’m entitled to a retirement program….Waaaaaaaaaaa…… Want your pacifier now?????? No one owes you anything.
If you did not / do not plan for the potential of your job “Going South”, you have no one to blame but yourself. Grow a pair and accept responsibility for you future, but then it IS easier to blame the ‘evil Corporations’, Waaaaaa….. Waaaaaaaaaaaa………

Everyone wants to regurgitate some rhetoric - no one wants to directly address what I've said.

That's pretty lame.

You'll be crying yourself a river if you find yourself in that position. And don't give me that lame assed retort, "buh, buh, I done put away mah monies juss in case dis happens." Yeah, RIGHT. Everyone has that much cash, sure.

Who said anything about money? Got a marketable skill???? Keeping those skills current to the needs of the present times????? You keep going back to the world owes you something cause your here. Sorrrrrrryyyyyyy, nobody owes you squat, the sooner you figure that out, the brighter your future will be.

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:06:40 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Who said anything about money? Got a marketable skill???? Keeping those skills current to the needs of the present times????? You keep going back to the world owes you something cause your here. Sorrrrrrryyyyyyy, nobody owes you squat, the sooner you figure that out, the brighter your future will be.

What a GRAND idea. Yeah. I'll keep using my marketable skill up into my 70s and 80s. What the hell, who needs some stinking pension when you have that magical "marketable skill."

I guess I could be a paramedic when I'm 90. Sure.

Retirement, shmirement.

You all are so full of it your eyes are brown. There is NO ONE here who doesn't desire job security.

Prediction: The next response will be, "Yes, I want job security but I still believe no one owes me anything."

Well, if the words "job security" ever escape your mouth - accredit it to the development of unions.

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:10:25 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Yes. Thats what happens when companies go bankrupt. If you had been with Kmart for 16 years you knew the end was coming, Kmart has had a terrible balance sheet for a long time now. Home Depot currently has 3.8 BILLION in cash, I don't think they will be filing chapter 11 anytime soon.....

UGGHH! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, just say the words: "I don't care if I get screwed when I'm nearing retirement."

If you say that, I will stop this debate.

If you DO care if you get bent over after a decade of hard work - then you have but little choice other than to advocate worker protection plans.

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:15:43 AM EDT

[#40]

I've never seen a Target with guns or ammo.

Quoted:
Somebody mentioned Target ; I went to the target here and everything was double what you could buy it for it sucked I call it 'prepackaged Hell ' Their ammo selection was sorry as well. Just my experience though .............................

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:22:08 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Who said anything about money? Got a marketable skill???? Keeping those skills current to the needs of the present times????? You keep going back to the world owes you something cause your here. Sorrrrrrryyyyyyy, nobody owes you squat, the sooner you figure that out, the brighter your future will be.

What a GRAND idea. Yeah. I'll keep using my marketable skill up into my 70s and 80s. What the hell, who needs some stinking pension when you have that magical "marketable skill."

I guess I could be a paramedic when I'm 90. Sure.

Retirement, shmirement.

You all are so full of it your eyes are brown. There is NO ONE here who doesn't desire job security.

Prediction: The next response will be, "Yes, I want job security but I still believe no one owes me anything."

Well, if the words "job security" ever escape your mouth - accredit it to the development of unions.

Junior, you just dont get it, probly never will. I would like 'Job Security', but I am also smart enough to know that animal has been extinct for many years. You can deal with the present, and plan for the future, or, sit and whine about how everybody 'owes' you. On that note, I leave this thread with a

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:30:27 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Junior, you just dont get it, probly never will. I would like 'Job Security', but I am also smart enough to know that animal has been extinct for many years. You can deal with the present, and plan for the future, or, sit and whine about how everybody 'owes' you. On that note, I leave this thread with a

Son, with that mindset, you line yourself up for worker's abuses. Even a knuckle head puts away a little and establishes an IRA and a 401(k). You're telling me, without income, everything would be hunky freaking dorey with your bills, car payments, mortgage, etc.?

Well if that's true, then congratulations - you've just entered the 1% of America crowd. Ain't happening.

And unions don't just protect wages and job security - they've been the keystone of developments such as the 8-12 hour work day, OSHA, overtime pay, safety equipment, and everything else that makes a job comfortable.

But, SON, you'll probably just never understand all that.

Buh-bye.

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:38:01 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes. Thats what happens when companies go bankrupt. If you had been with Kmart for 16 years you knew the end was coming, Kmart has had a terrible balance sheet for a long time now. Home Depot currently has 3.8 BILLION in cash, I don't think they will be filing chapter 11 anytime soon.....

UGGHH! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, just say the words: "I don't care if I get screwed when I'm nearing retirement."

If you say that, I will stop this debate.

If you DO care if you get bent over after a decade of hard work - then you have but little choice other than to advocate worker protection plans.

Whoa now hold on. I'm not saying that I don't care if I get screwed when I'm nearing retirement. What I am saying is that sometimes those things happen with companies, and while it would be nice if the shareholders of a bankrupt company wouldn't mind getting ALOT less of their investment back to continue funding retirment plans for associates and managers that lost THEIR money, fact is it just doesn't happen. They want to liquidate as much as possible, get maybe a small amount of their investment back and move on. So what you are saying is that the investors in ENRON should have to fund the retirement of all those employees and managers who lost their money. Screw the retired investors who trusted their life savings to ENRON, no what we need to do is make sure the employees and managers continue to have a safe retirement. Now if you are with a comapany for 16 years and you did not have the vision to diversify your investment portfolio and did not keep an eye on the direction of your employer, then you are at fault as well. I am so tired of this society that when something bad happens in their life, the first thing they want to know is whose fault it is OTHER THAN THEIR OWN, and who can they sue to get a payoff.

So if you will just say, " I want to screw the investors of my company a little bit more, so I can have a good retirement despite the fact that I lost their money", then I will quit the debate as well.

Oh well, isn't this a great country we live in where we can have these lively debates???

Jason.

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:43:22 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Since an employee can quit at any moment, I don't see why it's such a crime they can be laid off at any moment as well.

Self preservation maybe? Come to work for my company. I'll promise you retirement benefits after 20 years of faithful employment to last you well into your senior years. No, wait, after 19 years - since its employment at will - the hell with your dedication, buh-bye. No benefits for you.

The thing is that you don't get a PENSION from an AT-WILL employer. They just don't offer them...

WI is an employment-at-will state (unless you work for a unionized company).

The govt and union employers are the only ones offering pensions. Everyone else does stock-purchase/profit-sharing and 401(k), which you keep weather you leave at 5yrs or 19...

The market has taken care of the '19-and-gone' problem by eliminating time-in retirement plans...

This is also a good thing, as the employer doesn't end up carrying a bunch of guys who's only aspiration is to not get fired for 20yrs so they can live off the Corp's dime...

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:47:44 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Whoa now hold on. I'm not saying that I don't care if I get screwed when I'm nearing retirement. What I am saying is that sometimes those things happen with companies, and while it would be nice if the shareholders of a bankrupt company wouldn't mind getting ALOT less of their investment back to continue funding retirment plans for associates and managers that lost THEIR money, fact is it just doesn't happen. They want to liquidate as much as possible, get maybe a small amount of their investment back and move on. So what you are saying is that the investors in ENRON should have to fund the retirement of all those employees and managers who lost their money. Screw the retired investors who trusted their life savings to ENRON, no what we need to do is make sure the employees and managers continue to have a safe retirement. Now if you are with a comapany for 16 years and you did not have the vision to diversify your investment portfolio and did not keep an eye on the direction of your employer, then you are at fault as well. I am so tired of this society that when something bad happens in their life, the first thing they want to know is whose fault it is OTHER THAN THEIR OWN, and who can they sue to get a payoff.

So if you will just say, " I want to screw the investors of my company a little bit more, so I can have a good retirement despite the fact that I lost their money", then I will quit the debate as well.

Oh well, isn't this a great country we live in where we can have these lively debates???

Jason.

Brother, I agree with a few of your points there and I mistook you for having some beliefs you don't.

You too, are misunderstanding some of my points. And I will continue this later today.

Right now its bed time. I'm beat. If I go on I'll probably integrate some army cadences in mid sentence. So, with that, I'll catch up with this after I get some zzz's.

Posted: 8/23/2004 7:57:39 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whoa now hold on. I'm not saying that I don't care if I get screwed when I'm nearing retirement. What I am saying is that sometimes those things happen with companies, and while it would be nice if the shareholders of a bankrupt company wouldn't mind getting ALOT less of their investment back to continue funding retirment plans for associates and managers that lost THEIR money, fact is it just doesn't happen. They want to liquidate as much as possible, get maybe a small amount of their investment back and move on. So what you are saying is that the investors in ENRON should have to fund the retirement of all those employees and managers who lost their money. Screw the retired investors who trusted their life savings to ENRON, no what we need to do is make sure the employees and managers continue to have a safe retirement. Now if you are with a comapany for 16 years and you did not have the vision to diversify your investment portfolio and did not keep an eye on the direction of your employer, then you are at fault as well. I am so tired of this society that when something bad happens in their life, the first thing they want to know is whose fault it is OTHER THAN THEIR OWN, and who can they sue to get a payoff.

So if you will just say, " I want to screw the investors of my company a little bit more, so I can have a good retirement despite the fact that I lost their money", then I will quit the debate as well.

Oh well, isn't this a great country we live in where we can have these lively debates???

Jason.

Brother, I agree with a few of your points there and I mistook you for having some beliefs you don't.

You too, are misunderstanding some of my points. And I will continue this later today.

Right now its bed time. I'm beat. If I go on I'll probably integrate some army cadences in mid sentence. So, with that, I'll catch up with this after I get some zzz's.

AAHHH....someone who works overnight ....my hats of to you, I have to do it every couple of months for a week or two and it KILLS me.....

Yeah, I've got to go to work anyway. Good points though.......
take care,
Jason.

Posted: 8/23/2004 8:04:21 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
]

Son, with that mindset, you line yourself up for worker's abuses. Even a knuckle head puts away a little and establishes an IRA and a 401(k). You're telling me, without income, everything would be hunky freaking dorey with your bills, car payments, mortgage, etc.?

Well if that's true, then congratulations - you've just entered the 1% of America crowd. Ain't happening.

And unions don't just protect wages and job security - they've been the keystone of developments such as the 8-12 hour work day, OSHA, overtime pay, safety equipment, and everything else that makes a job comfortable.

But, SON, you'll probably just never understand all that.

Buh-bye.

Is the “Entitlement Mentality” so ingrained in you that you can not conceive of someone walking off a job if they believe they are not being treated fairly??? That someone could not retire without outside funding?????? I have done the first, and am doing the last. Adapt with the changing times and survive, or bury you head in the sand looking for all those entitlements you think you are owed. Oh, buy the way, in 8 years when the Wife and I retire, we will be ‘Hunky Freaking Dorey’ without job related income.

Posted: 8/23/2004 8:45:12 AM EDT

[#48]

There's a new Super Wal-Mart going up about a half mile down the road from my house. The K-Mart is about 50 yds from the construction site. The sooner the better.

Posted: 8/23/2004 10:29:32 AM EDT

[#49]

Anybody who works 20 years for benefits is a sucker. Hell, 5 years is pushing it.

Posted: 8/23/2004 10:56:52 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Anybody who works 20 years for benefits is a sucker. Hell, 5 years is pushing it.

This says it all. If you want a cradle-to-grave welfare state, go live in France ! Oh, and remember, you'll have to pay 50%+ tax for the whole of your life to pay for it.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Attention K-Mart Shoppers: K-Mart sells stores to Home Depot, Sears (Page 1 of 2)

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