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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:10:37 PM EDT
Woot Woot my 100th post.
I am making this one controversial. My question is why do folks hate Jews? I must come across as sheltered or naive, but why the hatred. I am not Jewish I am a Christian from the South East. I have heard the argument made that because the Jews killed Jesus they were bad and evil. But it was prophecy that Jesus be a Jew and is killed by the Jewish people to die for our sins. My theological understanding is if Jesus did not come to earth and die we would all go to hell because we could not uphold the laws of Moses. I have also read about a book titled the "Elders of the Profits of Zion" or something of that nature that stated that the Jews are trying to take over the world, but that makes no sense either because Jews are constantly persecuted. I mean how in the hell could a race of people that were damn near wiped out in the 20th century and persecuted for many centuries before take over the world? They have a difficult time keeping the Muslims from leveling there itty bitty country, how could they "create a One World Government". So I would like this to stay civil but I want input from both sides, Pro and Anti Jew. So tell me why people hate Jews????   KEEP IT CIVIL, NEITHER SIDE SHOULD TAKE THIS PERSONAL, I AM NOT TRYING TO TURN INTO AN ANTI SEMITE. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:12:48 PM EDT
[#1]
I have no idea. But the hate against them is virulent, the ideas spread and infest some peoples' thinking like a disease.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:15:42 PM EDT
[#2]
I think that mainly it is because every bully loves to have a whipping boy. And the Jewish society is small enough and isolationist enough to be a good target.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:20:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Let me first say that these are not my beliefs, but that I have had contact with many who feel this way.
Most often the stereotype is that jewish folks put money over all else. It doesn't help that historically jewish people have been involved with business and banking. As soon as some bum runs his business into the ground, and a banker forecloses on a loan, it's all about "them damn jews". It has nothing to do with the fact that he drank his business away. Jewish people are often "clanish" just like any minority. Come down to South Florida sometime and see how the various hispanic cultures band together. The fact that someone tried to kill all of the the jews off just reinforces this clanish behavior. The whole "god's chosen people" thing doesn't help much. I have met jews that take that shit waaaaay too seriously. As an atheist, I couldn't care less who god chose, but it gets annoying being around someone who believes silly shit like that. All jews by no means buy into this, or at least are able to keep it to themselves if they do. You add these three things together, and you get the whole zionist idea. You take a clanish group of folks, give them control over the world's money, and get them believing that they are god's chosen people. Of course it just follows that they must be trying to take over the world (or already have depending on who you ask). Again, these are not my views, I'm just trying to answer your questions. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:29:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I love Jews and I love Israel.
People that hate them are foolish. My Savior was a Jew. He will return for me some day. Until then, I will bless Israel. Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:37:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Didn't have a problem with jews until law school, in fact while I was in the Marine Corps one of my best friends was a jew and I thought that the Staff NCOs (post embassy duty) who were always bad mouthing the jews were racists.
Then I got to law school, and found out who everyone was talking about. Clannish, open dislike of Christians, hateful, openly rubbing their 'hooking only each other up' in everyone elses face, openly stating that the life of any jew in Isreal was worth more than a US serviceman's. I learned quickly to dislike. It has taken a few years to get stright in my mind that the bad people are not 'all jews', they are a subset of jews who are rich and who are the dominate people in law, medicine, government, and banking because of their clannishness. In fact, I have seen jewish lawyers who were not from the right family treated as bad as a Christian would be by the powerful jews. Edit--I meant to say "Dominant", not "Dominate", but got worked up. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:41:51 PM EDT
[#6]
The "funny" thing, if you want to put it that way, is that it was anti-semetism that CAUSED jewish folk to traditionally take roles in banking, finance, law, etc. See, the trades men (i.e., like the "masons") were pretty antisemetic. There were laws passed in old europe (long time ago) that basically excluded jewish folk from the trades. They then took up the only business opportunites available, i.e., lending money on credit, etc.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:43:19 PM EDT
[#7]
I agree with norman74. European jews lived for centuries amongst the christians of Europe as a people set apart. Their customs were odd, they tended to have money, and generally stuck to their own kind. Combine the natural human tendency towards xenophobia with general ignorance and superstition as well as with the idea that the jews were jesus killers and you have the perfect scapegoat group.
That is why people hated jews. A better question might be why, in this so called enlighten age, do people still hates the jews? The progressive Europeans invariably take the side of the Palestinians as do most other countries. The U.S. has historically stuck up for Israel because, one, we have a small but significant jewish population, and two, because we don't have the historical baggage that Europe has and tend to be a more diverse society. Why do people still hate the jews? The answer, I think, is the same as it was in the middle ages or mid-nineteenth century. Ignorance. We are not as enlightened as we would like to think we are. And no, I'm not jewish.  |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:43:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Amen |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:45:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Now days, I think, one of the reason some are annoyed with Jews, is because it is politically incorrect to hate them.
 They have their short comings just as any other race groups (yes, I am stereotyping here), but you get so much flak for talking negative things about them, because of the holocaust. I am not down-playing or revising holocaust here, but it's almost as they are immune to a criticism because the were 'victims'. Heck, lot of other races/ethinic groups went through their own halocaust s(Ukranians under stalin, Chinese under Japanese, Albanians under Turks, and so on) , but Jews seems to get more break; and I have feeling that I am gonna get flak for this comment as well. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:46:29 PM EDT
[#10]
and Halleluja |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:46:49 PM EDT
[#11]
I sort of went through the same thing with Blacks in college. I went to a Historically Black College and had an all around 4.0 GPA for all of my years there. I finished my B.S in 3 years. I went to a communtiy college full time my senior year of high school. When I graduated I had the highest GPA in the college. I was to be the Validictorian of my class. During the practice for the Graduation I was to get infront of the school to be acknowledged and when the whole school saw me they went silend. After practice I got home and received a call no less then 15 min later. They came up with a bullshit story that I was not a transfer studnet nor a full student of the university and that they could not acknowledge me on stage for having the highest GPA. So know I realized that these affirmative action folks are real racists and I still get upset with blacks over it. I went to Virginia State University VSU |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:49:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Well, the Jewish community does tend to be a bit insular. They tend to stick together, which is good if you're in that community, but many people look at such tight knit communities that don't welcome outsiders as a bit odd.
And of course there are those who view jews as greedy, money hungry tyrants. They resent the fact that there are so many rich Jewish people and don't stop to think that those rich Jews got rich by WORKING VERY HARD AND EARNING IT. I think there IS a Jewish cultural bias toward making money, and they tend to get into lucrative markets and then they stay there, because it's a financially sound way of thinking. I note that the jewelry industry and the movie industry are both apparently dominated by people having Jewish names. And I wonder if it's coincidence that it's called JEWelry? I can't blame anyone for working hard to make a better life for himself and his family, or being a descendant of those who did. But SOME people CAN and DO blame them. A close knit, hard working, education oriented and industrious clan of people moves in and by virtue of their hard work, comes to dominate the local marketplace. The local yokels, who are uneducated, lazy, and quarrelsome among themselves and don't have any real sense of community then get upset and start BLAMING the newcomers. This is a story that's been repeated time and time again. It sickens me and saddens me that so many people don't understand this. If you want to have what rich Jewish families have, you would do well to emulate their work ethics and family values. Hard work, mutual support, education as a priority, and a willingness to exploit opportunities will make you a prosperous family too. CJ that the newcomers clan is getting rich while they're not. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:52:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Good point. I always try to ask anti-semites.............How many Jews are there in the WHOLE WORLD??? 100 million? 200 million? 500 million?? how 'bout 12? Thats right, 12 million WORLD WIDE give or take a few hundred thousand...........They usually shut up real quick |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:53:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Some facts about Jews:
Money. -The reason for this is historical. Back in the middle ages Christians looked down upon money lending, it was considered sinful and Christians were not allowed to do it. So... the Jews were in a way "encouraged" to be the first bankers because they were Jews. They also charged high interest ("The Greedy Jew" stereotype) because the non-jew loanee's would sometimes refuse to pay debts because they felt they were better than Jews, and money lending was a sin anyway (but somehow didnt apply to them because they only received the money) and with no way to get their investments back, Jews had to continually break even by saddling the debt on everyone else. Typical business practice, pass it on with increased price. The heritage has stuck for many Jews to this day. Clan behavior. -Jews were prosecuted from the day they became Jewish. Its only natural that they stick together no matter where they are. Do gun owners go to gay march rallies or green peace protests? No, they go to shooting ranges and ARFCOM with other like-minded people. Same deal with Jews. Nothing wrong with that when everyone else shuns you, who else are you supposed to associate with? People who hate your ass? No. Ask yourself, are not ALL nationalities clannish? If you say "No" I call bullshit. Asians with Asians, Whites with Whites, Blacks with Blacks. ETC. You stay with what you know. Very few people intermix.. I like when people critisize other races by saying "they are so clannish and wont assimilate" -while at the same time the same people who say this are moving OUT of their old neihborhoods because too many blacks now live there, etc and move to a "lighter" neihborhood. Are you not being CLANNISH? 
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Posted: 8/22/2004 1:58:33 PM EDT
[#15]
I once saw a History Channel-type show on Neo-Nazi groups (it may have been Discovery, I don't remember). The guy they interviewed said that he hated Jews because so many other people had hated them, so they must be doing something wrong.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:03:34 PM EDT
[#16]
This is also what I believe is behind a lot of antisemtism. Many Jewish parents bring their kids up from the cradle telling them that they need to be successful: doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, etc. I had a roommate for a couple of years who is Jewish and he explained to me that each generation feels that they are responsible for the success of the next, and they know that the next generation will be the ones taking care of them when they're old. Many cities in Europe (before World War II) had an entrepreneurial class of business owners, landlords, bankers, lawyers and accounants who did a lot of business and were involved in a lot of profitable deals. People naturally gravitate towards those they know well --in business just as in other aspects of life-- and those who didn't have a part in these profits looked at this as some sort of protectionism, cronyism or even its own sort of racism. There is a similar feeling toward the Lebanese who make up this entrepreneurial class today in many African cities. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:03:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Reminds me of a joke. This Jewish guy catches his friend reading some hate tract about Jews, and is shocked.
"Avram! Why the hell are you reading that garbage?" "For my self-esteem." "Huh?" "Yeah, according to this we control all the money, all the media, all the banks, all of Hollywood, and secretly run the world!" |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:03:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Not with a 25'pole.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:08:17 PM EDT
[#19]
If given the opportunity, I'd join the IDF. That's how strongly I value them.
I just watched some BS documentary on HBO yesterday about this Brit camera crew hanging out with Palestinian rebels. They completely painted the Jewish troops as these evil stormtroopers. They showed kids making homemade explosives and tossing them at the Jewish troops. And when one of those little terrorist bastards got shot, they played it up as this overly demonic act. WTF is up w/ HBO? |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:08:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Jews ended up in banking and merchantile because most European countries had laws forbidding Jews from owning land.
A non-bigoted person looks at the Jews and says that everyone likes to hang out with people who share commons bonds. A bigot attacks Jews for being clannish. One the other hand, the bigot does the same thing and calls it networking. Bigots are idiots. Every race has bigots. Every race is subjected to bigotry. A pretty good rule of thumb is that bigots tend to be poorly educated. When you get down to the nut-cutting, there isn't an ounce worth of difference between most muslim extremists and welfare-supported trailer trash/housing project scum in this country. They both hate those who are different. They are both repugnant in the eyes of the one true God, Jehovah. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:11:00 PM EDT
[#21]
My best friend is a Jew.
God was a lot more awesome in the old testament. He was all, "Spill your seed on the ground? SMITE! Opress the people of Israel? Eat plagues! Oh, and SMITE SMITE SMITE!" |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:18:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Yep, I saw that documentary too. Way, way biased against the IDF troopers. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:24:11 PM EDT
[#23]
You sir, do not know what you are talking about. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He never changes. Stick to subjects where you know something about the subject matter. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:31:42 PM EDT
[#24]
I saw this one too.. although it redeemed itself when they tried to crause a checkpoint at night and one reporter got killed.. I think it is the same documentry.. I have been to Israel and it is amazing what they have done with a forsaken desert land. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:32:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Yeah, when Jesus comes back he is going to be more old school. Those plauges and smite will seem like childs play when he consumes the earth with fire. But lets keep this on why modern educated people hate jews. And why do Europeans hate Jews, I mean the biggest Jew hater in the world almost distroed there Continent. And from my experience with the Black community at VSU I noticed they had some odd views on Jews, especially considering they are minorities too. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:34:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Penis envey.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:37:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Yes, and if you recall, the woman reporter stated that those men in the tank who shot the cameraman were not Jewish. She said it nearly under her breath - so it was easy to miss. She said something like, "...we later learned that the soldiers inside the tank were Arabs from (such and such country)..." And I did notice that she never reinforced that fact. ETA: She stated that when they were playing the Arab music over the loud speakers. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:39:01 PM EDT
[#28]
I just watched this also. The title is Death in Gaza. The take I got from it was not that they were trying to paint the Israelis as evil but rather that they were trying to have the viewer understand the thinking of the common Palestinian. They truely hate the Israelis and that hate starts the day they are born. They think nothing of using a young boy as their point man. Martyrdom is perceived as a form of victory and even children learn to relish the idea of dying. It reinforces in my mind how intractable that conflict is. These people can never live in peace together and therefore, a partition (wall) is the only way. It's a cycle of death and revenge that never ends. Interesting that the white journalist who was killed at the end of the show while carrying a white flag, was shot by Bedoiun Arabs who are part of the Israelis defence forces. 
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:50:30 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm sure you've heard of the story of how copper wire was invented???...A Scotsman and a Jew were tugging on the same penny...Get it???
OK...As an American Scotsman and a Christian Zionist...Let me qoute from a Steven Seagal movie "Exit Wounds"...In one scene the Ring Leader Bad Cop makes this statement..."The Greatest Trick Satan did was to get mankind to believe that he did not exist"...or close to that. Satan DOES exist and is teaching mankind to depise G-d's chosen one's...The Jews...It's of Biblical poportions!!! |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:52:12 PM EDT
[#30]
I dated a girl for five years who was Jewish, so I got a pretty good feel for their culture.
I liked the idea that they fended for themselves, had no hangups regarding sex or alcohol and place a very high importance on education. Some of their charity organizations bothered me a bit though. It was always Jews helping Jews. I mean when a Catholic charity decides to hand out food or clothing for the homeless, they don't check first to see what religion they are. I think this tight bonding tends to tick off outsiders sometimes. Just my two cents... Ed |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 2:58:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Thats a rip off of "The Usual Suspects". The greatest trick the devil ever played was convinceing the world he did not exist. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:16:20 PM EDT
[#32]
+1 Brothers |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:19:42 PM EDT
[#33]
The recollection I always got was
1. They killed Jesus (common you Jewish dumbfucks! You don't kill God's only child!) 2. They have had a history of 'smart' finances. With that they can screw ya. Thats were the term "Jewed" came from. That is a legitiment term too. But I have no problem with Jews and I'm a diehard Catholic. Hilter...right idea, wrong people. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:22:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Who would have been the "right" people?
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:22:46 PM EDT
[#35]
or the Asians in black neighborhoods in American. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:23:16 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm not going to answer that because I don't want to offend anyone. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:26:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Jesus was killed by some Jews who wanted to retain their power. Only idiots believe in collective guilt. Hitler was evil and his ideas were evil. Anyone who defends Hitler is a effing moron.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:28:51 PM EDT
[#38]
popcorn...check.
rum & coke...check. setting computer memory to store every facet of jewish history from biblical times thru the holocast to the building of the wall thru gaza and the west bank...check. paging shotar! paging mr. shotar! |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 3:46:31 PM EDT
[#39]
I almost converted about 8 - 9 years ago for the opposite reason. I have many, many Jewish friends and started asking them a lot of questions and looking more into Judaism. They mostly had their sh*t together, and the work ethic and extreme value placed on education really impressed me as a good world view to have. Plus, I figured any group that was hated as much by the losers of the world as the Jews must be doing something right.  Or I should rephrase to be those hated by those of the world. Could apply to both Jews AND Christians -- makes ya' think. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:01:50 PM EDT
[#40]
hello friends
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:05:29 PM EDT
[#41]
I was stationed at the Embassy in Tel Aviv and Consulate in Jerusalem for a year and a half. Good times in that country(read scantily clad women on the beach behind Embassy). It was and probably still rated as a critical intelligence threat post. Marines would often have calls disconnected when Isreal or her people were being bashed in the conversation. My experiences there will always remind me, that our country's friends aren't always our friends.
Still have some very good personal friends over there, and damn do I miss chicken schniztls! |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:11:59 PM EDT
[#42]
I've always thought it might be due to them being listed in the Bible as being the "chosen" people, even though it isn't always by people who believe in the Bible. Kind of a jealousy thing, like people I used to work with who hated "the boss" or "the owner". No other reason than to hate someone more successful.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:18:44 PM EDT
[#43]
I think a lot of it is jealousy. That being said I have a Jewish lawyer and accountant. They do a good job and are personal friends as well.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:24:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Well..............both my grandmothers were Irish. My grandfather on my mother side was Danish. My grandfather on my fathers side was a Russian Jew.
I'm an American. I was raised Catholic but have a problem with Priests who don't really live a normal life. Can't relate to them. So...................I don't know what my point is except that you can't sterotype people because of their race, religon and nationality becasuse.................if you live in America, you might be all of the above. 
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:25:33 PM EDT
[#45]
That line is actually from Baudelaire, but great reference.
Very true. Another excellent point. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:26:03 PM EDT
[#46]
They don't hate them as much as they do Muslims or those nasty pagan Budhist.
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:27:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Its rumored I'm against sending US tax dollars to Israel. But then, I'm also against sending US tax dollars to caucasian, black and hispanic welfare cases here in the US. I'm funny that way.
Its also been rumored I differ with the Scriptural interpretation that says God specially favors Jews today becasue of their DNA. Many associate that with hatred for Jews. On the contrary. Getting people addicted to the gov't teet is hatred. Giving Jewish people a false sense of secutiry in their relationship with God is hatred. Well ....you did say you wanted this to be a controversial thread. Just doin' my part.... |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:27:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Well yeah, but who can blame 'em.  |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:30:06 PM EDT
[#49]
I'm not an overly religious man... I fancy myself a Christian (Raised Catholic... they have potential).
I figure that SOMEBODY has to be right... and it sure as hell aint the Muslims. So until I figure out whats right, I'll join in the chorus with our Jewish allies. Not to mention... they don't take no gruff. "Oh? Another suicide bomber? Say hello to my hellfire missile... Alluha akbar this" - BUCC_Guy Me likey Jews. |
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Posted: 8/22/2004 4:35:31 PM EDT
[#50]
First off, the HBO special was not HBO it was Oliver Stone - 'nuff said.
Secondly, I am a jew. In fact I am the Jew I have read about on this thread. I live comfortably, I go to good schools, am very religious, have a strong family life, etc. Have I ever experienced hatred - Hell no and here';s why........: Anti-semites pray on the weak. I am not weak. Many MANY many MANY many MANY many of my people went like sheep to be slaughtered by the Nazis. Then we rebound and in 1967, the Jewish Warrior is reborn. The weak Jew is no longer and anti-semitism hits a new low "peaking" in 1972 with munich. World sympathy is at its highest. But the only person who hates strong Jews are weak Jews. Hence the American jewish/left takes on the strong jews (Israel....., Religious American Jews, religious American non-jews, etc.). They hate actual strength and instead seek to create a sense of elitism to combat the strong jews. The left will do ANYTHING to reassure themselves that they are not physically weak, so they join up with teh enemies of the STRONG jews and thus starts SELF-hatred: Weak Jews doing anything to appear strong, including teaming up with anti-semites. So, the enemy of the strong jew is the weak jew. And the enemy of the weak Jew is himself. I worry more about the liberal leftist establishment in America then I do about the french or pat buchanan. Pat buchanan I can stare down and stand up to. It is the weak jew that scares me. And that's my two million cents. (this was a ramble, so you are all prohibitted from taking apart what I wrote and presenting each quote as fact.) |
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