At CCA(Coal Creek Armory, the firearm/ tactical supply store I manage), we have a lot of customers who are excited about the sunset of the '94 AW ban. The customers come from all walks of life, all different manner of guns strike their fancy, and we have sold $3k Steyr-import FN FALs alongside used Ruger p89's at $250, Barret 50s and Taurus on the same day. They are, for the most part, very enjoyable people, and our informed regulars look forward to cheap Glock mags, or a collapsible buttstock on an AR15, or whatever particular feature strikes their fancy.  We've gone out of our way to educate people as to exactly what the ban sunset means, because while many of them have heard a snippet on the news, or seen it mentioned on the internet, they aren't always fully aware of the ban sunset's full meaning.

I get questions such as "Can I put a folding stock on my MAK-90?" or "So now I can get a 11' barrel on my AR15?" or even "Well, the new ban might be retroactive about 11 years, so only the pre-94 guns will hold their value" or god forbid, "I can't wait to make mine full -auto as soon as it sunsets"! As you can see, keeping the customers informed, safe and above all, LEGAL, is a part time job in and of itself.

Enough Backstory, On With The Show!

A gentleman who frequents our store, and has purchased from us in the past, took a shine to one of our more expensive rifles on display, an SEBR AR10 on display. He likes the gun, but not the price, and made sure we were aware of both. We took it all in stride, in many cases, people just need to get the sticker shock out of their system before they commit to a high dollar item. If he wanted an AR10, fine, if not, that's fine too, and we'd let him decide which. We had just had a long and interesting discourse on what the sunset of the AW ban would do to high preban rifle prices, and he had nodded and agreed that new AWs from manufacturers would cause a drastic drop in the days on the $2000 Colt preban. But apparently, the AR10 changed all that.

He moseys over to the counter where I'm standing, and says "You guys do any trading"?

Sure we do!

"Well, I've got 2 Colt AR15s. They're PREBANDS, and they're New in the box. I though maybe I could trade one of them and 'get some back', we might could trade". He heads on down to the car to retrive said prebans.

Oh heck. The AR10, ordered from Armalite in that config would cost about $1600-$1800. He has a new in the box Colt Blue Label Sporter sitting in front of me 30 seconds later, and wants to know how many hundred dollars he'll get in addition to that new AR10. Now, I could have sworn I just got done explaining to him that yes, we would be recieiving new AW-featured AR's from several distributors, for the same prices post bans sell for- about $750-850, depending on brand, and that he or anyone else eligible could legally purchase on here.

"Hmm" I said, peering into the box. "Nice, very nice".

"Yeah, Preband, new in the box, you know what that's worth. What can we do on this here for the AR10? Mind you, I want to get some back now."

Uh, how do I break this to him nicely? I force a chuckle, and "You mean what it's worth now, or 25 days from now? The '94 ban will sunset soon...I don't know what we can really do here..."

"Now, don't give me that. This rifle was BANNED, and they won't be making any more like this. I paid a lot for it. It's worth more than that AR10, because it's unfired, and BANNED."

Hm. I just that day had recieved a call from a large distributor of ours, alerting us that thy would have Colt AR15A3 Tactical Carbines ready to ship the day the ban dropped, as well as other models. I muster my courage, and charge politely back into the breach."Actually, sir, I  did get a call today from a Colt distributor, to let us know that they would ship rifles like these after the ban ends."

His forced grin fades like frost on a skillet. "No, not like these. There won't be any more."

"True, this Sporter is an older model, but even though the newer guns may not be exactly like this one,"I say glancing at it's lack of a bayonet lug "they will have the correct banned features, just like this gun."

"No."

"Well, Yes. We can't really offer you the high preban prices of the past in trade on this gun, because we'd just end up selling alongside new production ones for about $900, give or take."

He scowls and closes the box back up. "No, I can't do $900, you know what this gun's worth. I guess I'll just put it back in my closet with the other and wait." My brain twinges, as I try to imagine what he could possibly be waiting for. I offer him the option of an out of state sale to NJ or state level AW ban equivalent, whe the rifle "would still command a premium as a preban, and you could get some of your money out of it", but he is not interested, and leaves shortly after.

Hm. I thought I was clear when I explained it before, I had JUST got done explaining the sunset to him, to no argument but somehow, the news of the ban end didn't quite sink in when it was HIS gun. I was destined to repeat this scene, with only minor variations twice more this week-

Person asks about AW ban sunset, and has it clearly explained.
Person asks about new AW-featured AR15 prices, hears that they will be about the same as postbans.
Person realizes AW ban sunset means that their purchased-in-'97 $1.5k+ beat up Bushmaster will probably become a $650 beat up Bushmaster.
Person runs home, brings back overpriced Preban, offering to sell it to me for a whole $100 off($1400) what they paid, as a favor.

ARGH!

J.

Most of them never heard of a sunset clause, and I'm sure that many were told that their guns could never go down in value. Still, it makes me smile everytime I think of the millions of dollars people will lose on their pre-ban "investments" next month.

ETA: Is it common for people to come ino a gun store expecting to trade a gun and get cash for it? I think the gun stores here would tell me to get out if I tried that.

idiots in all walks

some people are dense, it is amazing.

I have a PWA pre-ban that I built right before the ban, because I was afraid that I would not be able to get an AR15 after the ban.  I was in college at the time, and I saved and borrowed enough money to get the lower and Bushmaster parts.

When the ban went into effect I was delighted to discover that I could still get neutered ARs, and I eventually realized that my old PWA was worth more money because it was Pre-ban.  I never considered selling that gun, and what the gun may or may not be worth now dosn't matter to me at all, it is mine and I'm keeping it.

What I am trying to say is, I am glad I got the gun before the ban, I will never regret keeping that gun, even though at one time it was worth more money that it is now.

I know that what I have is a $600 gun just like back when I put it together in 94.

I sold all my prebans through the store already, years ago. I'm still holding onto one, but I managed to come out even all said.

Can't say the same for the boss and all his magazines, though.

I'm trying to remember the last time somebody wanted to trade in there preban for $$$; nothing comes to mind.

TR

you sound frustrated, like you were expecting some brain cells or common sense or something ?!

common, you should know better than that.  98% of all people think on a 4 year old's level you just have to deal with that..

 I'm glad I shot the hell out of all my prebans for the last ten years  Never owned a virgin safe queen.

I saw the same "never been fired" Blue Babel Colt for $1,850 in a gun store last week .  My boss has been going around for a month buying up preban AR and M1A mags.  I keep telling him that he is wasting his money.  Oh well

Quoted: Most of them never heard of a sunset clause, and I'm sure that many were told that their guns could never go down in value. Still, it makes me smile everytime I think of the millions of dollars people will lose on their pre-ban "investments" next month. ETA: Is it common for people to come ino a gun store expecting to trade a gun and get cash for it? I think the gun stores here would tell me to get out if I tried that.

The sunset clause is part of what I explained to him, it just didn't apply to HIS gun.

And yes, customers can and do offer to trade guns and get cash back, if the trade is uneven in their favor. Or they just sell the gun for cash, that works too, but trades are more common.

Quoted: that's really odd. the dealers up here STILL have those $1500 price tags on their rifles. i try to explain to them that in 25 days or so their toys won't be worth more than $800 and they just give me this really weird stare. the funny thing is...most of those fucked up dealers have sat on those overpriced rifles for the last 6-8 years!!!! supply and demand, my ass!

There will be this huge clue fall out of the sky and hit them on the head next month

Quoted: that's really odd. the dealers up here STILL have those $1500 price tags on their rifles. i try to explain to them that in 25 days or so their toys won't be worth more than $800 and they just give me this really weird stare. the funny thing is...most of those fucked up dealers have sat on those overpriced rifles for the last 6-8 years!!!! supply and demand, my ass!

They are probably waiting for some smuck to walk through the door looking for something for home defense and try to dump a "preban" on them.  They are just trying to make a buck.

Quoted: that's really odd. the dealers up here STILL have those $1500 price tags on their rifles. i try to explain to them that in 25 days or so their toys won't be worth more than $800 and they just give me this really weird stare. the funny thing is...most of those fucked up dealers have sat on those overpriced rifles for the last 6-8 years!!!! supply and demand, my ass!

Hell, check the EE. It's everywhere. $1800 colt prebans.

Too many dealers got into the preban market for too much, and just can't afford to lose $600-900 per gun, I suppose. They'll just end up losing more than that at their bankruptcy auction, if they keep it up.

J.

The main reason I sold EVERY pre-ban rifle I had except for those with specific memories.  I could not believe the prices people paid for a flash hider.  Lots of living in denial going on here.  If someone was willing to give me 1800$ for a rifle I paid 440$ for and then fired nearly into oblivion,  hey,  I would even throw in a 5$ rifle sock.

Got a new boat out of the deal AND a slew of post bans.

The rules may change, but the dealers won't. They are out to make a buck and have to deal with a lot of poorly educated consumers in the process. I don't begrudge them their money.

I see sports card and comic book dealers face the same problem. Somebody comes in with a rare card or comic and wants top dollar even though its slightly off center and has a few handling marks. The dealer also has four of the things he's willing to sell for less than the customer wants for his item.

Reality checks are frequently painful to cash.

Quoted: idiots in all walks

Not an idiot, just ignorant.
AB

Goatboay should write a script that converts the text "pre-ban" into "old" for the EE.

This is probably going to be the only investment I have made that I am going to be happy about loosing money on.

Eh, that's ok...

My local "gunshop" (or as I liked to refer to it, the "Asshole Club") sells post-ban Bushmasters for $1150. Oh, by sale, I mean they put ridiculous price tags on them and only friggen morons buy them.

Quoted: Interesting.  I have a very good friend who bought his Colt HBAR the day before the Ban went into effect.  If new afterban guns are $800 or thereabouts, he still stands to make a tidy profit.

Correcting for compounded inflation or the stock market?  Depending on what he paid in 94, $800 in 2004 may not be much of a profit.

WHAT     YOU mean to tell me my PRE-BAN COLT AR-15, which no more willl ever be made, and it is very rare to find one like mine, since it says COLT and is a Blue Label, will be worth next to nothing, and that I will lose all that PROFIT, HUH, is that what you are saying......
GOOD, I AM SOOOOOOO HAPPY TO HEAR THAT, I AM VERY THANKFULL AND WILL BE HAPPY TO LOSE MONEY ON A PRE-BAN

I guess I really lucked out when I bought my NIB Colt MT6601 preban for $900 back in 1997. First thing I did was install one of the Colt 16" M4 conversion uppers everyone was selling for $400 back then--with bolt carrier and carry handle. Now you're lucky if you can find the 16" Colt M4 barrel for that price. Also installed a Colt 4 position collapsible, which was only $135 back then as well.

BTW I'm in California. After I had a compensator mounted I put the original MT6601 upper on a Bushmaster lower I bought for $250. Sold that frankengun for $1100 just before the Cali AWB went into effect.

My net cost was $585 for an all Colt M4gery

There are certain pre-bans that I believe will hold their value to a large degree.  The AR180s, the original ones, won't ever be made again.  Neither will Colt make a slab-sided Sp1 with triangle handguards ever again.  I'm not sure that Colt will make fully evil 9mm caliber carbines again either.  But even those guns will drop down in price to a certain extent because of what other fully evil firearms you can get for less money.

was at a gunstore in VA friday that sells reloading components dirt cheap,the guy has a preban oly on the rack @ $2300,obviosly has been there for over a year now.As I am paying,I mention how it was a shame for him that that rifle would only be worth 550 to 600 in a few weeks.His response was,no way,the guy I bought it off of said he never fired it,therefore it is new and I look for it to go up in price.As they say,denial isnt just a river in eygpt...........

Quoted: The main reason I sold EVERY pre-ban rifle I had except for those with specific memories.  I could not believe the prices people paid for a flash hider.  Lots of living in denial going on here.  If someone was willing to give me 1800$ for a rifle I paid 440$ for and then fired nearly into oblivion,  hey,  I would even throw in a 5$ rifle sock. Got a new boat out of the deal AND a slew of post bans.

Damn, my prebans have flash suppressors instead of flash hiders.  Damn!

Quoted: Most of them never heard of a sunset clause, and I'm sure that many were told that their guns could never go down in value. Still, it makes me smile everytime I think of the millions of dollars people will lose on their pre-ban "investments" next month. ETA: Is it common for people to come ino a gun store expecting to trade a gun and get cash for it? I think the gun stores here would tell me to get out if I tried that.

Gee, thanks a lot.  I know my prebans will be devalued next month and it is worth it to see the ban go away.  However, you don't need to take glee at my loss.

Quoted:  I'm glad I shot the hell out of all my prebans for the last ten years  Never owned a virgin safe queen.

I have one that is waiting for Sept 14.  Brand new, in the box Eagle Arms carbine.  I have been saving it for that day.

Quoted: Quoted:  I'm glad I shot the hell out of all my prebans for the last ten years  Never owned a virgin safe queen. I have one that is waiting for Sept 14.  Brand new, in the box Eagle Arms carbine.  I have been saving it for that day.

should be a busy day at the range.  everywhere!

This story isn't as bad as the dealer here who tried to tell me that high capacity magazines were banned by another ban passed in '96 and that there was two more years before that ban would expire.  

He claimed he wouldn't sell normal capacity mags with guns until he received a signed memo from the ATF that he could sell them... I wonder what he's gonna do when all the new pistols start shipping with normal cap mags?

He was 100% positive he was right.  I tried telling him he was FOS, but he just knew the law.  He also claims he won't sell an FN 5-7 because it's made for going through body armor.  I wanted to tell him he knows damn good and well a gang-banger isn't gonna walk in and buy a $1000 pistol in some off the wall caliber... but hey, he knew what he was talking about.

He was so damn confused he was making up his own laws.  Like he said that LEO marked mags are legal to use as long as you aren't committing a crime.  If you commmit a crime while one is in your firearm, then it is an extra charge.  He said that the reason cops don't want the ban to go away is because now criminals won't get the extra time in jail for using an LEO mag.

All this stupidity is making my head hurt.

MAKE IT GO AWAY!!!

Quoted: some people are dense, it is amazing. I have a PWA pre-ban that I built right before the ban, because I was afraid that I would not be able to get an AR15 after the ban.  I was in college at the time, and I saved and borrowed enough money to get the lower and Bushmaster parts. When the ban went into effect I was delighted to discover that I could still get neutered ARs, and I eventually realized that my old PWA was worth more money because it was Pre-ban.  I never considered selling that gun, and what the gun may or may not be worth now dosn't matter to me at all, it is mine and I'm keeping it. What I am trying to say is, I am glad I got the gun before the ban, I will never regret keeping that gun, even though at one time it was worth more money that it is now. I know that what I have is a $600 gun just like back when I put it together in 94.

You didn't buy that lower in Terre Haute, did you?

Quoted: I offer him the option of an out of state sale to NJ or state level AW ban equivalent, whe the rifle "would still command a premium as a preban, and you could get some of your money out of it", but he is not interested, and leaves shortly after.

Thinking that you can "Unload" a preban in one of the no sunset states for during ban prices might not work too well . Over the past few weeks I have seen a marked increase in the number of prebans on the racks of shops here in NY . Used models are going 800-1000 and NIB Colts around 1200-1400 , that’s about 200-300 less then they were a few months ago .

I for one wont be rushing out to pick up a 10+ year old used weapon for more the a brand new one because it has 2 features that a new one doesn’t have . What I will be looking for is a Lower
with the right serial number that I can use to build what I want with new parts .

Other states that had a registration date to own banned weapons still wont be able to buy .
So that shrinks the potential market even more .

Quoted:
Eh, that's ok...

My local "gunshop" (or as I liked to refer to it, the "Asshole Club") sells post-ban Bushmasters for $1150. Oh, by sale, I mean they put ridiculous price tags on them and only friggen morons buy them.[/quote]


You must be near Myrtle Beach . My sub $600 remington 700 vs is $1250 at a local store. Tag says that the caliber is no longer made! Duh Yeah.

Quoted: Quoted: I offer him the option of an out of state sale to NJ or state level AW ban equivalent, whe the rifle "would still command a premium as a preban, and you could get some of your money out of it", but he is not interested, and leaves shortly after. Thinking that you can "Unload" a preban in one of the no sunset states for during ban prices might not work too well . Over the past few weeks I have seen a marked increase in the number of prebans on the racks of shops here in NY . Used models are going 800-1000 and NIB Colts around 1200-1400 , that’s about 200-300 less then they were a few months ago . I for one wont be rushing out to pick up a 10+ year old used weapon for more the a brand new one because it has 2 features that a new one doesn’t have . What I will be looking for is a Lower with the right serial number that I can use to build what I want with new parts . Other states that had a registration date to own banned weapons still wont be able to buy . So that shrinks the potential market even more .

As I said, "some" of the money, not all of it by any means(he had in mind a total value of nearly $2k)...I sure as heck wasn't going to take it off his hands at a high price and hope to sell it to NY/NJ/MD/etc. at any profit, that's up to him - Though I did offer to show him how to get set up on Gunbroker. No, no new-fangledy interweb for him, thank you very much. He wasn't interested in taking ANY hit on the price he paid, so it's a moot point.

J.

Quoted: True Tales of the FFL is officially the domain of SteyrAUG. Please cease and decists it's use. Sincerely Gecko45, The Mall Ninja.

I enjoyed that so much, that I decided to put it in my 2500th post.

J.

Quoted: True Tales of the FFL is officially the domain of SteyrAUG. Please cease and decists it's use. Sincerely Gecko45, The Mall Ninja.

Bwahahahahaa, bwhaahahaaa.......

Yep, a lot of pre-ban owners who paid a premium for the evil features are going to take it in the ass.  Stupid law.

Quoted: was at a gunstore in VA friday that sells reloading components dirt cheap,the guy has a preban oly on the rack @ $2300,obviosly has been there for over a year now.As I am paying,I mention how it was a shame for him that that rifle would only be worth 550 to 600 in a few weeks.His response was,no way,the guy I bought it off of said he never fired it,therefore it is new and I look for it to go up in price.As they say,denial isnt just a river in eygpt...........

You are so right... the headwaters of the Nile are in Sudan.

CRC

Quoted: Goatboay should write a script that converts the text "pre-ban" into "old" for the EE.

yeah but there will still be some preban's ie pre 89 imports

Quoted: Eh, that's ok... My local "gunshop" (or as I liked to refer to it, the "Asshole Club") sells post-ban Bushmasters for $1150. Oh, by sale, I mean they put ridiculous price tags on them and only friggen morons buy them.

That sounds a whole lot like the store in my town. Maybe a bit more, but not by much.

I like the idea that the Colt Blue label I bought in '91 for $650 will be worth somewhere around that in a month. 13yrs of free shooting, now that's value. I have always considered that gun a $650 gun. It has never been for sale. Especially at the over inflated prices of recent.

I kept my pre-ban,NIB, Belgian Fal sidefolders,my NIB,H&K 91,93,and 94 para stock rifles and 1 hungarian underfoldig AK a Polytech, Legend underfolder and thats about it.I don't think there will be anymore of those coming in so I kept those and sold the others off to buy machineguns.A monkey can build a "Pre-Ban"AR-15 for about $600.00 in a couple of weeks so why would any sane person pay more?Unless it was for a slab side Colt or somthing?

A lot of people have been doing so much fucking with this per-ban shit that they just can't seem to see the end of the road coming up fast.In fact,IMHO,the time for selling based on "Banned features" alone,has long gone.Went to a show last weekend and kept hearing "Pre-ban"mentioned as a justification for a $1600.00 tag on ARs.Bwaaaahaaa.Get over it.I have the receivers and the kits just waiting for 9-14-2004 to come to pass and it will be build and ship time.Business is allways business.

Quoted: I get questions such as "Can I put a folding stock on my MAK-90?" or "So now I can get a 11' barrel on my AR15?" or even "Well, the new ban might be retroactive about 11 years, so only the pre-94 guns will hold their value" or god forbid, "I can't wait to make mine full -auto as soon as it sunsets"! As you can see, keeping the customers informed, safe and above all, LEGAL, is a part time job in and of itself.

You  can put an 11 foot barrel on your AR now. Don't know where you'd find one though........unless you meant 11"(inch).....

Quoted: I just came back from the local fun show.................quite frankly I was shocked, the pre-ban used prices were actually up by 20% at the dealers and guys filled the show ARs in hand trying to sell them.  This is not the big show but a smaller one and had never seen so many ARs at this show. As far as I am concerned the panic is on. Tj

Did you go to the show at the Knoxvilee Expo Center. I saw some guy looking at a Colt SP1 that had CAR features on it. The seller wanted like $1,600 for it, I told the guy looking at it to wait untill after September 14 and it will just be a used gun.

I am sick and tired of these damn vultures trying to rip folks off. I think it is going to be crazy right after the end of the ban. Folks will still be trying to sell mags and "Pre Bans" for jacked up prices untill the word gets out.