From a NYTimes article

Marines in Najaf

As a reconstruction of the battle in Najaf shows, the sequence of events was strikingly reminiscent of the battle of Falluja in April. In both cases, newly arrived Marine units immediately confronted guerrillas in firefights that quickly escalated. And in both cases, the American military failed to achieve its strategic goals, pulling back after the political costs of the confrontation rose. Falluja is now essentially off-limits to American ground troops and has become a haven for Sunni Muslim insurgents and terrorists menacing Baghdad, American commanders say.

   I hate this shit.  They complain because we respond with an iron hand when the militias start something.  Do they just expect the Marines to stand there and take it?  Fuck it, lets get the fighting out of the way now instead of letting it simmer.

they're supposed to kill people and blow shit up

God forbid they actually do it, that would be so un-PC

No country can defeat us Militarily, MOST can defeat us politically!    Sad, ain't it!

Marine units immediately confronted guerrillas in firefights?

Without offering them Ice Cream first? Neanderthal Leatherneck bastards!

Let me play the role of a liberal:

Option A: The Marines go in and kick the asses of the terrorists in Fallujah. In the course of the fighting, a few Marines die and a few civilians are also killed. Most of the terrorists are killed in battle. The problem is over.

The response from the left would be that our armed forces are a bunch of murdering, trouble-seeking, babykillers under the command of the Hitler-like Bush who throws men away like piss in the wind.

Option B: You fight in a more limited fashion (in an effort to appease such folks). You avoid taking the action needed to win because you don't want to set off the left-wing idiots after some soldiers and civilians are killed, which will happen. It's just a given. Therefore you have limited battles with limited success.

Regardless of which option you choose, the left will come down on you equally hard. There is no way to win with those people. Either you do what is needed and spart riots across the nation and further divide it. Or you seek to appease these people by being soft. When you do that, you not only still catch flak but don't achieve your objective.

I just wish Bush would say fuck it and wipe these assholes out when they materialize. As divided as the nation is, politically, it doesn't matter what he does anyway. The simple fact is both sides hate the other so bad, it would not matter if either candidate was caught in an alley shooting up dope with a 10 year old girl. Their party would still support them at this point. That's reality in the year 2004. So do what's right. And oh yeah, fuck the NYT! These fuckers know so much about combat, let's send their wise asses over there to find the insurgents.

Anyway, the original point of my post is to point out how the left has seriously hindered our ability to wage war. There are enough of them, and they have enough media coverage (support), that allows them to do this. Perhaps we should turn the tanks loose on them first, then go back after the terrorists when these communists have been dealt with.

Marines want to fight too much

God Bless 'em every one!

Quoted: Marines want to fight too much   God Bless 'em every one!

God Bless our devil Dogs  +1

I don't think they failed at all. Now, Fallujah is one of the most orderly damn places in Iraq.

Quoted: Marine units immediately confronted guerrillas in firefights? Without offering them Ice Cream first? Neanderthal Leatherneck bastards!

God BLESS the Marines!
God DAMN the Media!

Those Marines!  

We need to confiscate their guns... immediately!



Why do liberals get so bent out of shape when these guys do their job?

GOD BLESS THE MARINES!!!

GOD, has a hardon for Marines.... Because we KILL, EVERYTHING WE SEE!

The problem with this "war" is not fighting too much, but not fighting enough.

The longer this thing is protracted, drawn out, and the enemy is mollycoddled, the longer there will be unrest in Iraq, and the longer the people of Iraq will be unsure about exactly who is in charge.  

The "insurgents"/terrorists/remnants of Saddam's old guard should be basically nuked from orbit (figuratively).  Then, with them out the way, the Iraqis can get down to the business of rebuilding a country.

Peace talks and cease fires (remember VN?) only foment discontent and cause the people to be unsure about the direction of the country; and make it MORE likely they will side with the "insurgents.".  

I guarantee you the Iraqi people want the fighting to stop.  The sooner it does, the sooner we can begin drawing down force levels, and the more likely they are to come over to our side, so to speak, and have a favorable opinion of us being there, which will in turn further reduce the militants ability to disrupt things.  

It's really fucking simple and it galls me to no end that the Bush administration doesn't see this and take appropriate measures.  

Quoted: I don't think they failed at all. Now, Fallujah is one of the most orderly damn places in Iraq.

Huh?

Quoted: Quoted: I don't think they failed at all. Now, Fallujah is one of the most orderly damn places in Iraq. Huh?

+1

Its kind of a problem still  

- BUCC_Guy

I thought that was the Marines SOP (both US and British)

"we kill people and break things"

ANdy

The boys in Falluja will get theirs. The April fights resulted in a standoff in Falluja and Najaf, after groups in both cities took heavy losses. Right now Najaf is being cleaned out. Once that's done they'll roll on Sadr city and Fallujah. The US is finsihing off their opponents in serial rather than in parallel.

What really gets me is that we seem to be steamrolling then the next I hear is that there is a cease fire.  Then more fighting, then another cease fire.  We should cease fire when there are no more targets.  

I read an article about a journalist accompanying the USMC in Fallujah.  He said the Marines were ATTRACTED to gunfire.  If someone started shooting at them with automatic fire, the Marines would figure out where it was coming from and start advancing on the shooter, contrary to the instinctive natural urge to run or hide. Before, he felt like Marines were like him, ordinary people in a bad situation.  After watching them in action, he realized the Marines were nothing like him, not even close.

Doersn't quite fit into Michael Moore's view of them as being innocent children or victims of their own government.

Quoted: I thought that was the Marines SOP (both US and British) "we kill people and break things" ANdy

HoooRAH!

Semper Fi

Quoted: God BLESS the Marines! God DAMN the Media!

+1

That's my boys..........

It sickens me to see American lives sacrificed for political correctness. I don't give a shit about the enemy's lives or those of their supporters, much less "offending" the friggin' Muslims. There is no such thing as limited war---at least there shouldn't be! I'm not talking about nukes or the wholesale slaughter of civilians. I'm talking about using the optimal (not minimal) military force needed to crush the enemy. NO NEGOTIATING!!! And if a few civies get whacked in the process? Get off the tracks when the train's coming.

What bothers me is that Bush is allowing this to occur. And he's the more "hard-nosed" of the 2 candidates! Go figure.  

Quoted: The boys in Falluja will get theirs. The April fights resulted in a standoff in Falluja and Najaf, after groups in both cities took heavy losses. Right now Najaf is being cleaned out. Once that's done they'll roll on Sadr city and Fallujah. The US is finsihing off their opponents in serial rather than in parallel.

I doubt it, but I hope you're right.

Who gives a rat's ass what a whiney, French-loving, Kerry loving, New York fucking liberal newspaper columnist has to say.

With each passing day, the NYT becomes more irrevalent outside of the city confines.

When the election is over and Bush wins big, all of the people in the Times building and all of their friends and neigbors uptown are going to be shaking their heads in amazement saying they didn't know anyone who voted for Bush!

The Marines are the strong rough young men on the ramparts guarding these pussies right to say stupid things like this.

God Bless the Marines...

The Times weenies can go to hell!

Uncle
Sam's
Misguided
Children

When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight!!

Semper Fi!  My brothers!

Semper Fi!

Top

Remember guys.

GOD is the only judge of the people fighting on the other side in these battles.

U.S. Marines only arange the meeting!

Semper Fi my fellow brothers
89' to 96'

RW3

Quoted: I read an article about a journalist accompanying the USMC in Fallujah.  He said the Marines were ATTRACTED to gunfire.  If someone started shooting at them with automatic fire, the Marines would figure out where it was coming from and start advancing on the shooter, contrary to the instinctive natural urge to run or hide. Before, he felt like Marines were like him, ordinary people in a bad situation.  After watching them in action, he realized the Marines were nothing like him, not even close. Doersn't quite fit into Michael Moore's view of them as being innocent children or victims of their own government.

We were trained to do that. The further you are from a machine gun, the larger the cone of fire. You get closer to it, causing the gunner to actually aim, and allowing you to engage with less of a chance of being hit. At least that is what they told us.

This isn't a new thing. During WWII many of the Japanese prisoners described the Marines as "fanatical". Quite a statement from the Japanese in WWII.

Marines want to fight too much

That's what they're there for.

Kerry will restructure the Marine Corps into the:  

United Nations' Approved Fascilitators for Sensative Cooperation.  

They won't call them the Devil Dogs anymore, they will be called the Peace Poodles.  

The Eagle, Globe and Anchor will be replaced by the Dove, UN Building, and Umbrella.

The Few, the Proud, the Marines motto will change to The Fewer, the Less Arrogant, the Boys on Boats.

The Mamuluke will be henceforth called The Gay Blade.

No insult intended to the Leathernecks.  For our fellow Forum members who think Kerry is the Bomb, guess again.  Our little Gunboat Gilligan is a dud....always has been; always will be.

I kind of think of  it this way,  Bush can't afford to piss off too many people right now because he has to be re-elected. He has to appease the Arab world and the press.  However, if Bush gets re elected, he can go all out.

If Kerry is elected he will be even more wishy washy about esclating fighting because he is wishy washy anyway, has to appease the leftists who put him in and will want to be re elected. In fact,  if Kerry is elected, this war may end up being all in vain.