I equate it to retard fight club between two governments. Don't really care who wins or loses but I do feel bad for the people on both sides who are stuck in the middle.

I hate organized sports because of how it makes grown men act.


I find it disgusting, that men treat war like it’s a football game while pretending the human suffering isn’t biblical in scale.  


This entire topic is a lesson in why we just spent 20 years losing two wars that were scams on people who love watching sports.

There’s about 5,000 locations I’d rather vacation at first but you do you I guess.

I’ll freely admit to that, partially.  I’ve tried to learn Russian on and off for 17 years.  My first Russian teacher taught me the alphabet and some of my first words in the library of a university for a few months before I lost contact with her.  I found her recently after all that time, and learned she’s actually Ukrainian, many Ukrainians speak both languages.  I stopped for a few years after lessons with her, and started lessons with a second teacher online for most years from 2009 on.  She’s from Kiev, and had to flee with her sister in law and nephew as the missiles were raining down in 24tb February.  Her brother couldn’t leave with them, as he was within the age range of men forbidden from doing so.  Her parents are elderly, we’re living in the south near Crimea, and came under Russian occupation for several months.  Finally, they drove through checkpoint after checkpoint north, and at last made it to Ukrainian held territory.  The last checkpoint had a Chechen soldier asking them “why do you think it’s so bad here?  

Besides all this, look into the history of the Soviet Union. Look into the mass killings the communists carried out of their own citizens, shooting so many in the back of the head during Stalin’s time, because his daddy was a violent drunk who regularly beat him and his mom, and he had to take his aggression out on countless innocents.  Look at the massacres in certain places, the towns near Kiev, Izyum.  Compare these to what Red Army troops did to women in the territories they overran, especially Germany (yes, vengeance helped fuel the fire, but they raped German women on a scale not at all seen when you compare it to the incidence of rape committed by German troops against Soviet women).  Finally, look at how Russian has been taking grain from the regions they occupy, just like Moscow did when Stalin ruled and they implemented collectivization, resulting in the starvation of millions.  

The Soviet Union never disintegrated entirely, it’s been here since 1991, just pulling the same old things on a smaller scale.  Now it will truly be obliterated forever.  I saw a post on social media my second teacher made, calling for, among other things, a program of destalinization in Russia.  Yes, there are actually idiots that still worship him there.  The place needs another round of perestroika, actually, this entire world does.

I want Russia to lose, and for Ukraine to not be a wasteland afterwards.  I am in favor of giving Ukraine equipment and gear that was otherwise about to time out due to obsolescence.  

This doesn't mean I support Ukraine unconditionally, as I don't; I don't think we should send them money, or spill our blood.

And if they cross the border to attack Russia, then there is no difference between belligerents to me, in which event I would want them to both lose.

If Ukraine starts taking Russian territory the odds of nukes being launched go up drastically IMO.

We get to test our end of life weapons on Russia’s advanced tech using half trained foreign fighters. Half the munitions were destined for a training range and we accounted full sticker price value on the delivery. From a defense spending perspective, the invasion has been a bargain in proof of capability.

He will be an obituary before this one is settled.

I think russia would use tactical nukes if they were about to lose donbass and crimea

Lol! No it'll be a cold day in hell when I care about the misfortunes of Russia...

No. But they won't lose unless they want to, lol. They got an ultimate "we win" card they can pull at anytime. Actually a couple of them.

There is zero chance of Ukraine "winning". The only delay happening is because Putin is likely drumming up his axes' support. He has enough bodies to throw at Ukraine where the real assault could make tunnels under mountains of dead bodies and then leap frog new bodies in until they suffocate Ukraine.

This is a coordinated "war" with all sides in on it. The losers are the peasants of each.

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We’ll drag it out, protracted warfare was the goal.  They may expand it across Eurasia.

Fuck russia

I guess we’ll find out soon enough but the formerly pessimistic Long War journal now thinks if Ukraine receives ongoing aid thru the winter it’s possible for Ukraine to succeed https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2022/09/ukraines-counteroffensives-in-kharkiv-and-kherson-and-the-road-ahead.php

That would be significant escalation not a resolution.

I’m inclined to believe Putin is hoping to rope in Iran and China /North Korea but without conscription where would these magical amount of Russian personnel come from? Russia’s Air Force has been dog shit so that puts the burden on Russia’s small and dwindling ground forces of which 87% of the Donbass militia types are pretty worthless.

Another thread where Arfcom clutches their pearls about nuclear weapons ...


What happened to the arfcom of two years ago that was all about starting nuclear wars?

Remember when Trump ended the forever wars?

I don't give a fuck about either. If Ukraine is doing so great, maybe we can stop sending shit over there and focus on our own country for a change.

lol

Yes, the most corrupt country in all of Europe that is known for elite money laundering is not the problem. Fuck them. Fuck Russia. Fuck our gov for sending money we don’t have and making the printing press go brrrrrr.

You know you’re on the wrong side when you’re arguing against taking care of our vets with them money, with was my point. It could be better spent, but both parties choose to ignore our issues and send it to Ukraine. We’re bleeding our own arms stock pile dry to boot. Fuck all that shit. Let Europe deal with their own problems for once.

Only the American People have lost this one.

A dying nuclear  power with a mentally I’ll leader backed into corner concerns me.  They’ll lose…but will everyone else as well?

Although not technically he largely did - removing 800 out of 800 personnel from Somalia, reducing Syria to 600, Iraq down to 1 brigade after defeating isis and reducing Afghanistan to 1 brigade. That was barely 12,000 personnel worldwide compared to 150,000 in 2010 which compared to WW2, Korea or Vietnam was peanuts. Money wise I think OCO was 45 billion his first year. I’d have to check what it dropped to by 2020. Whereas Europe has had 2 brigades parked in Germany/Italy since 9/11 but now 4 more brigades got rushed to Europe now 3 brigades remain that have to be replaced every 9 months and around $65 billion has been spent in less than a year. Korea continues to require a single brigade rotation where we’ve been since 1946 / 1950 and Japan has an entire Marine division since WW2. My point being peace isn’t any cheaper or less personnel intensive barring the disbanding the Army fantasy notion of guarding the border that Democrats always impede as well as Democrats ensuring spending on social welfare which a disbanded military would just free up $ for Alexandria Ocasio Cortez ideas on fighting climate change etc.  in their minds. Everyone is all worked up over the military industrial complex but social spending dwarfs military spending and social spending isn’t going to stop. Democrats have enough power to ensure border walls dont get completed or repaired, tax and spending bills get approved and they hate the military as much if not more and prefer a Stacey Abram’s black female DMV type of department of defense jobs program if they can’t get the Pentagon entirely gutted. Now Moscow, Beijing, Tehran and Pyongyang would be ecstatic to see the USA become 100% isolationist which the USA never was - Thomas Jefferson Barbary Wars. Our economy is the best in the world because of our international trade going back to the founding. Taiwan - lose those chips and good luck with you posting on GD after Beijing gets Taiwan and Taiwan buys $1 billion in military equipment they don’t get free shit   Attached File
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https://www.latimes.com/brandpublishing/story/2021-06-07/mutually-beneficial-trade-between-the-u-s-and-taiwan-is-at-its-highest-level-in-decades

This is a tired and weakened Russia, not Stalin’s Soviet Union before it lost 25-30 million people to Hitler’s Germany and allies.  Russian people are speaking out against this war from within Russia, actual lesser officials, they want Putin gone, they aren’t getting disappeared in the night in every case, as far as I know, but imprisoned if caught, or maybe not even that.  If he tries mass conscription, there is a good chance people would revolt, and the FSB/GRU/Omon and regular police wouldn’t be able to stop it, and some of them would be joining in, maybe in plots against him at higher levels.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/South-Africa-president-here-for-100-billion-for-climate-change/5-2586728/ Attached File
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https://thehill.com/policy/finance/447077-ocasio-cortez-10-trillion-needed-for-effective-climate-plan/amp/ Attached File
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/14/texas-operation-lone-star-deployments/amp/

He definitely drew down presence and it was part of why the shitbirds that sell our allegiance to foreign governments hated him.  He saw that 60 years of bad foreign policy had compromised national security and saw that we needed to consolidate, reform a unilateral commitment and recuperate.


The current policy is the shitbirds picking up where they left off in the late 2000’s and teens, which was a continuation of 1990’s policy. Brzezinski, Talbott , Albright, Nuland, Rice…etc.

I have no idea how it will end. I just hope it ends before things, possibly,  start spiraling out of control.

?????? ?? ???????

Well I think they’re gearing up, not down.  The recent Defense Authorization Act all but eliminated reporting and accounting for current and future military expenditures…why do they want to conceal that?


https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/biden-stops-publishing-military-expenditures-arms-transfers-report/

Meh, Taiwan should just wait for china to attack and then get the shit for free.

 
Euro model FTMTW!!!!

I don't believe this so readily, but the fog of war or whatever you want to call it is so thick with bs, manipulation, confusion, who knows what exactly is really going on.  In light of the fact the Russian intelligence services are ruthless opportunistic pragmatists, I'm inclined to believe they have been playing both sides against each other.  America has been Russia's chief geopolitical foe since the end of WWII, and I think this whole stuff about Biden and his son doing shady stuff in Ukraine and Trump being in the back pocket of Putin has been encouraged to divide the US, their enemy.  Either narrative no doubt has facts about it mixed in with a good deal of BS, case in point, Trump's speech at the UN some time ago warning the Germans to get off Russian gas, as he pointed out Poland was doing (Poland really knows what Russia is after being occupied by them for decades, mom was there in the 1980s for awhile, the Poles hate the Russians).  Was it all part of some elaborate ruse?  Similarly, every US president from Eisenhower to Biden has done something to oppose Russia, suddenly is Biden just doing it all as an act?  

Things are going bad for Russia now, and I honestly wonder if China will ever come to their aid in any significant way, including invading Taiwan (which would be more out of the interest of Xi and the top CPUSA officials, but would divide the attention of the US and its allies further).  

Just the fact you people are calling each other MAGA bois and whatever Trump supporters and the right hurl at their own domestic political opponents makes the Russian intelligence services and Z flag wavers happy.  Russia won't be around much longer though, not in its current form with the type of government it has, and I honestly still love the Russian people in general, it's been hard to keep the hate at bay at times, but I've managed to a good degree.

IDGAF about either one.

What an idiotic, myopic statement.

Neither side is perfect but one side is clearly waging a war of aggressive conquest and the other is fighting for its survival.   They are absolutely not morally equivalent.  

Shame on you.

Indifference.  

Hell, no.  I want them to lose.  I just don't want to pay 60 billion a year to make it happen.

"Only on Tuesday"

What's with Tuesday?

The distance preempts that model. USAF and USN are quietly moaning about the distances required. Our subs are the shit but the shallow Chinese waters impede them a little. Taiwan may not have 6 months if Beijing learned anything from Moscow’s “special operation” but if South Africa can score 100 billion for climate change despite supporting Russia, they pro grifters!

I'll admit to quite literally betting that Ukraine would prevail in this conflict when it kicked off in February. Too bad the bet was for drinks!

Were anyone's feelings hurt when America lost the Afghan war? And ran out with our tail between our legs?

How many billions did Russia spend to make us lose? Nowhere near what we have spent, I can assure you.

no.

The way the whole thing is going, I can't help thinking about the similarities to the Ace Combat 5 storyline...

Sure, sure NATO’s boys were taking Burisma money along with Hunter… ask Anders Aslund what Russian cock tasted like while still pushing NATO…these folks wanted a proxy war and were enriching themselves and their organizations from both sides in the process.

Don’t forget that the Podesta brothers and even Mr pro-Maidan, John McCain had all been taking Yanukovych (Russian) money prior to the coup too..

Elitist circle jerk.

I, for one, am all about Russia going in there and blowing all of Ukraine's communist shit to pieces. Places like Azovstal were a thron in their side from the beginning and they finally did what needed to be done; Rid themselves of that communist shit in Ukraine, along with all of those communist people, who of course, would never have even been communist in the first place if it hadn't been for Ukraine meddling in their affairs.

I can haz Chezburger now?

It will be a great day for the entire world.

   Yeah, too bad all the invaders on D-Day didn’t get slaughtered, right?

A world with an irrelevant Russia that nobody pays any more attention to when they throw a temper tantrum doesn’t sound like a bad thing. If we let them win in Ukraine, we’ll be stuck having to listen to their shit forever.
“Oh, to hell with the mongoloid Russians! We’re going to have to fight them sooner or later anyway so, let’s do it now while we have an army here to do it with! If you ask me, I think we should give these Germans some  rifles and get them to help us!”- Patton(the movie, anyway).