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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:34:05 PM EDT
DEAR MODS I'MMA NOT GONNA SAY WHAT COMPANY I AM, POST LINKS, OR DISCUSS PRODUCTS, JUST SAFETY.
PLEASE DON'T BANT ME.  Got this picture from [redacted]. Apparently, it was set up at 20 yards as part of upcoming [redacted event]. Some absolute donut shot what appears to be a full mag of 556 at it. That would be bad for the target and potentially the shooter if it was 3/8" AR500, but this was a blem, made of AR400 cause the shop screwed up. It was sold as a magnum pistol rated target, which it would be fine for. Result - lots of pits, and at least two outright penetrations. Hopefully no damage to the hostage mechanism (you can see the paddle behind to the left). Solution - Short term, unbolt it, use the clean side for pistol. Long term, [redacted] is sending out a new plate to reduce risk of spalling during the event. Damaged plate may be given as a prize or something to someone who did terrible. Do read manufacturer recommendations. Do use common fucking sense. Don't shoot rifle at steel that close. Safety third, but don't be dumb. Shills Team Six - don't @ me don't post links in this one, I don't wanna get in trouble or for you to do so. If you wanna post your own reviews of [redacted] products, feel free, but elsewhere. xoxoxoxooxox |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:38:30 PM EDT
[#1]
20 yrds is too close for rifle on steel.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:40:08 PM EDT
[#2]
FPNI
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:40:30 PM EDT
[#3]
That's a shitty thing to do to someone else's target.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:41:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Someone needs to have a talk with that idiot.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:42:36 PM EDT
[#5]
lol yes I would say that is the expected evidence of abusing a steel target with a rifle at 20 yards.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:42:50 PM EDT
[#6]
I wouldnt be surprised to find pitting if it was m855. M193 too, but mostly if it was a 20"
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:43:05 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:45:57 PM EDT
[#8]
How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard?
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:48:07 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:48:38 PM EDT
[#10]
I wonder how much spall that guy got back.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:48:40 PM EDT
[#11]
A few years of M855 and M193 at 100 yards .
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:49:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…
I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time. Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:49:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard? Those pockets will redirect bullet fragments back at you. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:49:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Pitting creates a safety hazard. You want as smooooooth as possible. My experience is the surface speed limit for AR500 is 2800 ft/s, 2500 ft/s for AR400. That's at the target, not the muzzle.
Best practice is the worse the surface, the further you want that target away from you. Once you get holes, you should make it an extreme long range target, or junk it. The target in the OP is not safe to shoot at pistol distance any more. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard? Anything inside of 25 yards at steel plates is risky business. It's not so much about the damage to the plates as it is the chance of catching some frags from bullet jackets, or lead. While the shooter at close range targets is at risk, anyone else nearby on the firing line is at risk. I've seen other people catch first aid type injuries because another shooter on the line set up a target too close and blasted away at it. Got one guy banned from a club I was a member at. When I was younger, I caught a richochet from a 38 special lead semiwadcutter that bounced back off the plate / metal stand the plates were sitting on. I was probably 20 yards away, shooting by myself. Took the round to my abdomen and scared the shit out of me, luckily didn't penetrate, as it had flattened out to a quarter sized piece of hot lead. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a shitty thing to do to someone else's target. I had a dude at the AZHTF camping/shooting event shoot one of my full size IPSC silhouettes with a 50 BMG AP round. People are fucking retards. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:24 PM EDT
[#17]
If someone did that to my range, they would never come back.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:45 PM EDT
[#18]
20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel. Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:52 PM EDT
[#19]
 75 yard minimum at buddy’s private set up with 556. No green tip ever. You would think that would be a no brainer. How about some angle down as well. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:53:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard? Steel is one aspect of range safety school that is very real and unforgiving. You need hard line policies to safety shoot a full line of guys on steel. Wrap around eye pro, long sleeves, hats, frangible ammo, targets hanging free to move or angled to direct frag down, clear understanding of range ran and frag impact areas…it all matters. Yes, divots on steel can cause ricochet. I would shoot frangible on it no closer than 15 yards. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:13 PM EDT
[#21]
I called it when I first saw the photo. People are idiots.
Love you Mitch |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pitting creates a safety hazard. You want as smooooooth as possible. My experience is the surface speed limit for AR500 is 2800 ft/s, 2500 ft/s for AR400. That's at the target, not the muzzle. Best practice is the worse the surface, the further you want that target away from you. Once you get holes, you should make it an extreme long range target, or junk it. The target in the OP is not safe to shoot at pistol distance any more. :like: When OP talks about hardness, penetration and holes, folks should listen up. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:34 PM EDT
[#23]
[redacted] & [redacted]
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Looks good to me.
My club uses old AR 500 dozer cleats and they don't look any worse than that. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:56:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel. Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500.  It's AR400, sold as a magnum pistol rated blem. Shop screwed up and cut it from 400 instead of 500. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:57:13 PM EDT
[#26]
About 10 years ago I was at a training event and one of my good friends took a copper jacket into his TONGUE from shooting a steel target setup at a bad angle.
I am here to tell you there was blood. And getting metal taken out of your tongue isnt cool. Not to be fucked with at short range. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:58:19 PM EDT
[#27]
What fuckwit would find that acceptable?
Was shooting a national qualifier IPSC match a dozen years ago and some fucking dickbag had a go at the mini pepper popper steel before the match with a rifle leaving the edges of it looking that that. I was burning through the stage and out of the corner in my see my 180 grain Berry's JHP coming back at me like the world's shiniest bumblebee. It hit me right in the elbow, fracturing the humerus. RO should have cancelled the stage before the match began, and I should have had the sense to not give it a go after doing the walkthrough. That range was shut down soon after, but that's ok, it was a dumpster fire :( |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:59:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel. Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500. Reading isn't your strong point, huh? |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:04:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…
I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time. Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:06:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're correct, but if you'd read the OP, you wouldn't have had to be correct. It's AR400, sold as a magnum pistol rated blem. Shop screwed up and cut it from 400 instead of 500. Ah ha. So much for my Evelyn Wood speed reading classes. I'd throw it out to the 100 yard line and shoot the shit out of it. I never bother with anything other that AR500 from a quality manufacturer who uses a water jet or something similar. Even soft edges from a plasma cutter will cause a target to cup after a while. I have full size poppers (stab and shoots) that have 10's and 10's of thousands of 5.56 rounds on them from 10 yards and out and they don't look that bad. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:07:37 PM EDT
[#31]
It’s not like you know what you’re talking about or anything
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:08:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel. Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500. Reading is fundamental. “…this was a blem, made of AR400 cause the shop screwed up. It was sold as a magnum pistol rated target, which it would be fine for…” |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:09:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation… I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time. Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better. Quoted: Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation… I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time. Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better. You can say that again |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:12:04 PM EDT
[#34]
AR500 3/8" hang fast target,angled down at 50 yards 556 rounds
I never shoot them closer than 50 yards with 556/223  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:12:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Guy that trashed that target is a fucking mook
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:12:39 PM EDT
[#36]
that did a pretty good job of fucking up that plate.
I've shot your shit about that close and didn't jack it up that bad. of course a swinging gong doesn't take the hits quite as bad. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:13:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard? the pitting creates a safety hazard |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:14:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Because I love all things [redacted] & [redacted] log out and log back in OP.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:16:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything inside of 25 yards at steel plates is risky business. It's not so much about the damage to the plates as it is the chance of catching some frags from bullet jackets, or lead. While the shooter at close range targets is at risk, anyone else nearby on the firing line is at risk. I've seen other people catch first aid type injuries because another shooter on the line set up a target too close and blasted away at it. Got one guy banned from a club I was a member at. When I was younger, I caught a richochet from a 38 special lead semiwadcutter that bounced back off the plate / metal stand the plates were sitting on. I was probably 20 yards away, shooting by myself. Took the round to my abdomen and scared the shit out of me, luckily didn't penetrate, as it had flattened out to a quarter sized piece of hot lead. yeah i yanked a pretty big piece of copper jacket out of my thigh at a 3 gun match before. was sitting probably ten yards behind and to the right of the shooter target was fairly close to shooter... bled like a motherfucker |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:21:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation… I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time. Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better. Me and the fellas set a 5,000btu window unit on fire in the Orosco Ridge Truck Trails with Norinco 7.62 steel core back in the 90's. Ahh, those were the days of being young and dumb. I never knew aluminum could burn! |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:22:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything inside of 25 yards at steel plates is risky business. It's not so much about the damage to the plates as it is the chance of catching some frags from bullet jackets, or lead. While the shooter at close range targets is at risk, anyone else nearby on the firing line is at risk. I've seen other people catch first aid type injuries because another shooter on the line set up a target too close and blasted away at it. Got one guy banned from a club I was a member at. When I was younger, I caught a richochet from a 38 special lead semiwadcutter that bounced back off the plate / metal stand the plates were sitting on. I was probably 20 yards away, shooting by myself. Took the round to my abdomen and scared the shit out of me, luckily didn't penetrate, as it had flattened out to a quarter sized piece of hot lead. For rifle, absolutely. Pistol rounds on steel is just fine at 7 yards. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:23:27 PM EDT
[#42]
i think i saw this on reddit
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:24:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few years of M855 and M193 at 100 yards . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47916/steel1-2090998.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47916/steel-2090997.jpg Long ago at a Flatiron mountain shoot west of Phoenix, a friend brought out this neat steel target, looked a lot like that. Had a kind of spring tensioned ball and socket pivot mount. He sets it about 100 yards downrange, says "you can shoot all you want at that". During the shoot I see people busting on it with a variety of things, mostly SMG's and handguns,a couple shorty AR's but he did say "anything". I double checked. He said "anything". So I plonked a 30 round mag full of MkVII ball in a friend's MKII BREN, and stitched the target. Yeah. Pretty much took it apart. What did not blow through, shattered the welds and blew the mounting to bits. That's when I learned that "anything" did not mean "ANYTHING". He wasn't too mad, I offered to pay for the damage, reweld it, anything, I was thoroughly embarassed. The guy who made it said "No, don't worry about it.", and that "Next one would be better". Later I had similar done to a gong I made using a VW flywheel. I figured it could stand off a good burst, even tested pretty thoroughly it with my battery of Enfields.. Nope. For those that remember him, Bob Faris took it apart with a Lewis gun, and as the flywheel was rolling downhill, reduced that to fragments. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:25:22 PM EDT
[#44]
This is why I'm bringing a belt of m995 and m80a1 to Cola east
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:27:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Probably 15 years ago I was blasting away at some targets at a friends ranch and swung around on his 20 yard pistol target just as he said NO WAIT I blazed a clean hole straight through it.
And now I know that you don’t do that. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:27:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those pockets will redirect bullet fragments back at you. Yup. Been there. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:29:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Good Lord, I thought the title must have been a typo until I opened the thread.
I use 300 blk powder coated lead subs in a clone of my 5.56 rifle (with different mags and a different color handguard) to practice on steel, but even then, I'm wary of anything inside of 25 yards or so. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:29:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably 15 years ago I was blasting away at some targets at a friends ranch and swung around on his 20 yard pistol target just as he said NO WAIT I blazed a clean hole straight through it. And now I know that you don't do that. Steel targets are a lot like chronographs. You generally buy your first one to replace the one you just destroyed that you were borrowing from a buddy. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:30:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me and the fellas set a 5,000btu window unit on fire in the Orosco Ridge Truck Trails with Norinco 7.62 steel core back in the 90's. Ahh, those were the days of being young and dumb. I never knew aluminum could burn! Dust initiator. Not only will it burn, it'll explode.....or at least appear to the untrained eye. 
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:39:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably 15 years ago I was blasting away at some targets at a friends ranch and swung around on his 20 yard pistol target just as he said NO WAIT I blazed a clean hole straight through it. And now I know that you don’t do that. ....because you never got invited back? |
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