What do you think of USMC Major General Smedley Butler's view of war??

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What do you think of USMC Major General Smedley Butler's view of war??

Posted: 5/13/2004 5:29:13 PM EDT

he is an undoubtedly an accomplished warrior, so here is a brief excerpt from his short publication:

click the link for the entire pamphlet.

Napoleon once said,

"All men are enamored of decorations...they positively hunger for them."

So by developing the Napoleonic system – the medal business – the government learned it could get soldiers for less money, because the boys liked to be decorated. Until the Civil War there were no medals. Then the Congressional Medal of Honor was handed out. It made enlistments easier. After the Civil War no new medals were issued until the Spanish-American War.

In the World War, we used propaganda to make the boys accept conscription. They were made to feel ashamed if they didn't join the army.

So vicious was this war propaganda that even God was brought into it. With few exceptions our clergymen joined in the clamor to kill, kill, kill. To kill the Germans. God is on our side...it is His will that the Germans be killed.

And in Germany, the good pastors called upon the Germans to kill the allies...to please the same God. That was a part of the general propaganda, built up to make people war conscious and murder conscious.

Posted: 5/13/2004 5:35:26 PM EDT

[#1]

A very contemporary Marxist point of view. He doesn't sound any different than Noam Chomsky, ANSWER, or the DU crew.

Posted: 5/13/2004 5:47:38 PM EDT

[#2]

Old Smed is one of my true heros, I iften spoke from his leadership strategies as well as Chesty Pullers. Chesty was a crazy MF, Smedley was very down to earth and a warrior at heart. semper fi!

c

Posted: 5/13/2004 5:53:10 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
A very contemporary Marxist point of view. He doesn't sound any different than Noam Chomsky, ANSWER, or the DU crew.

But none of them have received TWO Medals of Honor. I would think that would entitle him to his opinion.

Posted: 5/13/2004 5:57:17 PM EDT

[#4]

mr raven

yes, while in chapter 4 he does make it sound a little like the marxist bourgeois/worker struggle, if you are familiar with the generals politics you will realize he was far from being a marxist - he was making his point about the truths of most wars and who pushes for them.

the same thing is happening now, but it isnt the weapons producers this time - its the politically connected "contractors" (read carpetbaggers).

the solutions he "purposed" were simply to make his point with the article.

Posted: 5/13/2004 6:03:04 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Old Smed is one of my true heros, I iften spoke from his leadership strategies as well as Chesty Pullers. Chesty was a crazy MF, Smedley was very down to earth and a warrior at heart. semper fi!

c

Well said Marine.

Posted: 5/13/2004 7:17:36 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 5/13/2004 7:55:17 PM EDT

[#7]

you got that right!

c

Posted: 5/13/2004 8:03:07 PM EDT

[#8]

www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Well had he been listened to we wouldn't be bickering with the various members of the EU over what do in Iraq because Nazi germany would control all of Europe and, I would guess at least north Africa if not the entire african continent, south america and australia. Well I suppose they might ad time to develop jets and nuclear bombs so we might all be enslaved by the Nazis also. But hey at least that way no one would have profited from war since we would have eventually been wiped out before we were able to build up a decent fighting force when the Nazis and Japanese eventually decided to carve the USA up

Posted: 5/13/2004 8:14:09 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Well had he been listened to we wouldn't be bickering with the various members of the EU over what do in Iraq because Nazi germany would control all of Europe and, I would guess at least north Africa if not the entire african continent, south america and australia. Well I suppose they might ad time to develop jets and nuclear bombs so we might all be enslaved by the Nazis also. But hey at least that way no one would have profited from war since we would have eventually been wiped out before we were able to build up a decent fighting force when the Nazis and Japanese eventually decided to carve the USA up

holy cow!! are you joking. you must be writing a fantasy movie script or something. so where does darth vader figure into this. i think it would be a good addition to your script

Posted: 5/13/2004 8:36:50 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
mr raven

yes, while in chapter 4 he does make it sound a little like the marxist bourgeois/worker struggle, if you are familiar with the generals politics you will realize he was far from being a marxist - he was making his point about the truths of most wars and who pushes for them.

the same thing is happening now, but it isnt the weapons producers this time - its the politically connected "contractors" (read carpetbaggers).

the solutions he "puposed" were simply to make his point with the article.

Whatever. Same shit, different day. It's how the world works everywhere, for as long as we've recorded history. Nothing changes. So forgive me if I'm not shocked or moved by Gen. Smedley's profound observations. They may be novel to you, but not me.

Posted: 5/13/2004 8:51:26 PM EDT

[#11]

mr raven

the words were not meant to shock or move you. they are there simply there to give expert credence to the evil of the war hawks. so your attempt to "sound" intelligent failed.

general smedley was a great leader of men. what have you ever done?? im all ears.

Posted: 5/13/2004 9:01:23 PM EDT

[#12]

Except for ending slavery, facism, nazism, and communism, war has never solved anything!

Posted: 5/13/2004 9:05:41 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
mr raven

the words were not meant to shock or move you. they are there simply there to give expert credence to the evil of the war hawks. so your attempt to "sound" intelligent failed.

general smedley was a great leader of men. what have you ever done?? im all ears.

I love how you try to disqualify what I say by trying to tie the validity of what I say to military service.

You find an anomalous instance of a war hero who's disgusted by the miltary and how the US works, and thinks this is somehow an airtight indictment of the American system. And when someone bothers to say, "I think Smedley's full of shit", all you can do to refute me is throw Smedley's medals in my face and ask what I have done.

What sort of argument is that? That makes Smedley the chump and ME the smart one, doesn't it?

Posted: 5/13/2004 9:10:02 PM EDT

[#14]

So we should have refused to fight the Germans and Japanese after they declared war on us?

The whole concept that war is about capitalist profits, very fashionable after WWI, is of course ludicrous. War is very risky, and businesses hate risk. There might be some companies that can take advantage of the distorted markets and make tons of money, but for every business that profits there are probably three that go bankrupt. Ever notice that the stock markets fall when it looks like we are going to go to war? War is bad for business. A few will profit, most will suffer. If anything, the "business class" are a bunch of appeasers.

Like I said, this concept of capitalists lusting after war was very popular after WWI. This and other similar delusions regarding the nature of war led directly to appeasement and thus WWII. Hopfully, we will not let such idiotic thinking again guide our foreign policy.

Posted: 5/14/2004 4:09:47 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
mr raven

the words were not meant to shock or move you. they are there simply there to give expert credence to the evil of the war hawks. so your attempt to "sound" intelligent failed.

general smedley was a great leader of men. what have you ever done?? im all ears.

It is unfortunate in Smedley Butler's waning years, that he penned a few words which would later be repeated ad naseum by hardcore, anti-war Leftists.
Butler was a Marine's Marine. TWO MOH's. Were he to encounter any of the smelly hippies who now so gleefully repeat his words, I have no doubt he'd be appalled. He would probably beat them down with his riding crop.
The Leftists who love this screed would no doubt spit on Smedley in any other circumstance.
These elitist hippy, hypocrites.

Posted: 5/14/2004 4:15:43 AM EDT

[#16]

Unfortunatley it appears that Mr. carbine left us behind for a better place last night. Fortunately I have an alibi.

Posted: 5/14/2004 4:29:17 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
A very contemporary Marxist point of view. He doesn't sound any different than Noam Chomsky, ANSWER, or the DU crew.

But none of them have received TWO Medals of Honor. I would think that would entitle him to his opinion.

Thats very true.

Posted: 5/14/2004 4:30:53 AM EDT

[#18]

John Kerry has medals, and his opinions stink.

Posted: 5/14/2004 2:10:01 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A very contemporary Marxist point of view. He doesn't sound any different than Noam Chomsky, ANSWER, or the DU crew.

But none of them have received TWO Medals of Honor. I would think that would entitle him to his opinion.

Thats very true.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, medals or no. The facts are, however, that Butler's opinions, while perhaps holding some truth in his day, have very little bearing on the present. The ones who attempt to apply them to the present are ignorant ideologues with very little knowledge of history, current events or politics.
I think that, even in his day, Butler was exaggerating things likely because of bitterness.
But the fact remains that being a good soldier doesn't make one a good political theorist.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What do you think of USMC Major General Smedley Butler's view of war??

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