As much as I hate the French these guys seem like the ulitmate soldier because they are expendable.
What's your take on the issue?
I know they are known for being a rag tag group, but these guys see more action in their 5 years of sevice then any navy seal.  They don't take French citizens only foreigners.  Thier training is as tough or tougher than the seals, they are trained in desert warfare more then the seals.  They are trained to be expendable.  They serve 5 years.  90% see actual combat, 1 out of ten die in combat. They dissapear once they join, they have the option for a second tour after their 5 years is up.  After that they can retire on a French hillside and the goverment pays for everything

www.frenchforeignlegion.org/

Quoted: they are expendable.

So's a condom…

Whats the difference between the French Army and a slice of toast?
… you can make soldiers out of the toast.

Andy

Only the 2me REP is worth considering.

Quoted: As much as I hate the French these guys seem like the ulitmate soldier because they are expendable. What's your take on the issue?

I agree, they are expendible.

I think you might actually have a good idea here! The Navy SEALs would only get better if they had live targets to train with instead of paper ones. I'm going to go write my congressman right now.

Quoted: Quoted: they are expendable. So's a condom… Andy

If their parents would have used condoms, There would be no French Foreign Legion
So I'll pick the SeALS

I go with the SEALS too… SEALS are Stud's… the French are

They have to ONLY select foreigners because the ethic French would surrender at the sight of an enemy.

Andy

Quoted: Quoted: As much as I hate the French these guys seem like the ulitmate soldier because they are expendable. What's your take on the issue? I agree, they are expendible. I think you might actually have a good idea here! The Navy SEALs would only get better if they had live targets to train with instead of paper ones. I'm going to go write my congressman right now.

Southern American border would be good training grounds.. hell, they're "illegals" aren't they?

I looked into this when I was younger . They have a bad rep because around the time of Angola they let anyone in .( Scum of the earth.) Now they are preaty picky . Just because you show up doesn't mean you can get in now .They have some strange rules they follow . Things like anything you bring to the induction center you lose forever . Your pay has to be in a bank in France , and you are only allowed to draw so much of it a month . Turning in your passport which you can not have back until your contract is up . All leave must be inside France for the first few years of service . You can not get married unless you do five years of service . A standard three year contract being signed to sign up .I also have a few English buds in France and they tell me that universaly the French will hate your guts . Even though you are fighting and dieing for them , you are still a foregien scumbag in thier eyes . The best part at least to me is after service , I can't remeber if it was 3 ,5, or 7 years , you can aply for French citezenship with a new name , and French passport .

The Legion is the opposite of camels

Camels can work for 10 days without drinking.

The Legion can drink for 10 days without working.

Quoted: The best paert at least to me is after service , I can't remeber if it was 3 ,5, or 7 years , you can aply for French citezenship with a new name , and French passport .

Really???? All I have to do is serve in the military for a country that doesn't fight, and I would be able to live my dream of living in Paris and being named Pierre???

Quoted: As much as I hate the French these guys seem like the ulitmate soldier because they are expendable. What's your take on the issue? I know they are known for being a rag tag group, but these guys see more action in their 5 years of sevice then any navy seal.  They don't take French citizens only foreigners.  Thier training is as tough or tougher than the seals, they are trained in desert warfare more then the seals.  They are trained to be expendable.  They serve 5 years.  90% see actual combat, 1 out of ten die in combat. They dissapear once they join, they have the option for a second tour after their 5 years is up.  After that they can retire on a French hillside and the goverment pays for everything

Soldiers are not truly 'expendable'. They all serve a purpose, and are all human beings. This mindset can help is combat, but so can the comraderie that comes about knowing that your men will never leave you behind, no matter what. Which method of instilling effectiveness in combat can never be debated unless an individual has  been in both of the units.

How do you know they serve more? Most SEAL operations go unheard to the public, as far as I know.

They hire foreigners? how is this a good thing?? Only a possible breach of security, from what I can see.

1 out of 10 die in combat. HOW is this a good thing? The less men in your unit, the less capabilites you have.

And WHAT is the good side to retiring on the French hillside? WHO WANTS to live there?

Quoted: Quoted: The best paert at least to me is after service , I can't remeber if it was 3 ,5, or 7 years , you can aply for French citezenship with a new name , and French passport . Really???? All I have to do is serve in the military for a country that doesn't fight, and I would be able to live my dream of living in Paris and being named Pierre???

Yes realy . I looked at it as an option long and hard because my Ex wife is a nut job , and disapearing forever seemed a nice option to have .

You'd be a nutjob to end up in France. Think harder.

One other thing I realy liked was a Legionere is a Legionere for life . You can look up people you served with , and always have a place to go when the chips are down . Piss on the French all you want , but rember these guys are not French , and they are a band of brothers by fire first and formost .

Quoted: ... Thier training is as tough or tougher than the seals, ...

Pardon me while I laugh.

Legion training is semi-tough, but not nearly as difficult as US Marines.  Much less SEALS.

A Legionaire would have to stand on a 20 foot step ladder to kiss a SEAL's butt.

Quoted: You'd be a nutjob to end up in France. Think harder.

I didn't say anything about ending up in France . But with a French passport you can live just about anywhere as a complete unkown .

Any soldier is expendable, the  only question is if they are being spent wisely ?

So what's to keep this outfit from being infiltrated by fundamentalist muslims with an axe to grind?

Quoted: Piss on the French all you want

Can do!

but rember these guys are not French

So the French still need someone else to do their fighting for them huh? Why am I not surprised?

Quoted: Only the 2me REP is worth considering.

The 2eme REP is very hard, but there's an even more elite unit within the 2eme REP.

They used to be called CRAP, a French acronym that means Deep Reconnaisance Commandos (they've changed the name recently).  They're like the SAS, except for antiterrorism stuff, which CRAP doesn't do. They operate in very small groups deep in enemy territory under all condidtions.  It's open only to 2eme paratroopers who have had at least 5 years or so in the Legion, which means they re-enlisted after their first contract.  So they're all about 26-27 at the youngest.

They're the elite unit of the 2eme REP, which is the elite regiment of the Legion.

Quoted: As much as I hate the French these guys seem like the ulitmate soldier because they are expendable. What's your take on the issue? I know they are known for being a rag tag group, but these guys see more action in their 5 years of sevice then any navy seal.  They don't take French citizens only foreigners.  Thier training is as tough or tougher than the seals, they are trained in desert warfare more then the seals.  They are trained to be expendable.  They serve 5 years.  90% see actual combat, 1 out of ten die in combat. They dissapear once they join, they have the option for a second tour after their 5 years is up.  After that they can retire on a French hillside and the goverment pays for everything

What makes you think SEALS don't see any action. They're busy conducting operations even during peacetime.Alot more than you think.

Seals see plenty of action, but these guys don't care who they are fighting for, they just want to fight.
Also the French goverment doesn't give two shits about them.  True I really don't think they would be a match for the seals, but I bet they are a close second.

I don't know if the French goverment really even reconize the other parts of the Legion, just the 2nd.

Quoted: Quoted: ... Thier training is as tough or tougher than the seals, ... Pardon me while I laugh. Legion training is semi-tough, but not nearly as difficult as US Marines.  Much less SEALS. A Legionaire would have to stand on a 20 foot step ladder to kiss a SEAL's butt.

What do you base this on Old Painless? Not trying to be a wiseass. I always assumed their training was harder than Parris Island (which by the way I did myself). Enlighten me.

Read "Hell in a Very Small Place" (if you can find a cpopy).  It is a very well researched, careful examination of the foreign legion at Dien Bien Phu.  Dispells a lot of myths, concentrates on reality.  I HIGHLY reccommend it.  

BTT

If you have a 'past' you can't start over under a new name,,if you live through it

Quoted: Read "Hell in a Very Small Place" (if you can find a cpopy).  It is a very well researched, careful examination of the foreign legion at Dien Bien Phu.  Dispells a lot of myths, concentrates on reality.  I HIGHLY reccommend it.

Not to be arguementative, but didn't they get the snot kicked out them at Dien Bien Phu?

Quoted: What do you base this on Old Painless? Not trying to be a wiseass. I always assumed their training was harder than Parris Island (which by the way I did myself). Enlighten me.

I base this upon reading about their training and watching programs about the training.

It is difficult, no doubt.  But nothing like SEAL training.

And the physical training didn't seem any more difficult than Marine training, if as hard.

In addition, SEALS are smart guys.  No dummies need apply.  They are probably the most motivated fighters on the planet.

On one program, which I am sure many here have seen, a SEAL trainee is required to swim under water, without a breath, for a long distance.  Several made it, but were pulled out of the water as they had passed out and finished the dive on guts alone.  Truly amazing.

I had a teacher in high school that spent a lot of time in France in the 70s.  Collector of militaria as well.  He might have been in some sort of French military too, not sure if it was Foriegn Legion though.

Old Painless is right on about their training.  My best friend went over there and when he got back he told me it was a joke.

Quoted: True I really don't think they would be a match for the seals, but I bet they are a close second.

I wouldnt bet on that

There was a great video floating around of the 2eme REP in action in the Ivory Coast. The link I had for it is now dead.


In 2001 the "2eme REP" was a force of 1297 men including officers.
Nearly all of the officers are French.
Listed here are the troops countries of origin.
France: 250 (they had to change their name and declared other nationality)
Poland: 115
Hungary: 68
Switzerland:65
Canada: 60
Roumany: 55
Russia: 56
Ukraine: 49
Slovaquia: 49
England: 44
Rep tcheck: 39
Portugal: 30
Lituania: 19
Bielorussia: 18
Spain: 16
Luxenburg: 14
Japan: 13
Germany: 12
Korea: 12
Italia: 12
Bulgary: 11
Lettonie: 10
Belgium: 10
Finland: 10
Croatia: 10
Irland: 10
monaco: 9
Madagascar: 8
Moroco: 7
Sweden:5
New zealand:5
Brasil: 5
Danmark: 4
USA: 4
Turkey: 4
Moldavia: 4
South Africa: 3
Kazakstan: 3
Ouzbekistan: 3
Mexico: 3
Estonia: 3
Liban: 3
Albania: 3
Australia: 2
Algeria: 2
Tunisia: 2
Slovenia: 2
Benin, Ethiopy, Kirghisgistan, China, Laos, Nepal,Peru, Uruguay, chiliea, argentina,holland, Iceland, norway, Scotland, austria: 1 each

I see plenty of posts from guys who know nothing about either organization. Its just one of the reasons why these type of threads on comparing Special Forces groups are moronic.

Quoted: Quoted: True I really don't think they would be a match for the seals, but I bet they are a close second. I wouldnt bet on that

Indeed, SAS would be a close second. SEALs and Delta are quite comparable but SEALs have the advantage of working in water where as no other unit in the US has that ability, at least not to the same degree. I'd have to say SEALs are the tip of spear. The Foreign Legion is for the most part comparable to WWII Japanese. Their training is sadistic, as in their instructors were shit on and they shit on the recruits. They have stupid rules, traditions, and idiosyncrasies. These guys just want something out their service, and for the most part they are men with a past who want to start over. Not all are like that, some want the challenge and such, but most. The french are known for being pretty barbaric when it comes to fighting, and not in an aggressive warrior way. It would be more accurate to compare them to WWII Japanese military when it comes to ruthless barbarism. SEALs and indeed US forces are an overall more honorable group.

SEALS all the way.  No comparison.  The training is better, the personnel is more motivated and more intelligent, the support is better, and The Neutral Observer is fairly certain that the SEALS have been seeing some action lately.  The Legion is larger: there are elite units like 2 REP based in Corsica and units that are essentially labor battalions like 5 REI based in French Polynesia.  The last The Neutral Observer heard, the Legion's OOB was the following, in descending order based on skill/desire of posting (some of this may be out of date):

2 REP, based in Corsica.  New recruits are forbidden to leave the island for the first year of service in this regiment.  This unit regularly sends detachments to East Africa to augment 13 DBLE.  This unit is the elite of the legion, takes tradition very seriously, and possess the Legion's counterpart to the SEALS.

13 DBLE is a small detachment based in East Africa; this is a desired posting due to the increased pay for being deployed there.

1 REC is the Legion's armored regiment, and is based in France.  There are several support units attached to this; this is where most of the Legion's specialists, such as combat engineers are posted.  It is part of the French rapid reaction force.

2 REI is also based in France, and is also part of the French rapid reaction force.

3 REI is based in French Guinea.  This is where the legion has established a jungle warfare school.

5 REI is a labor battalion based in French Polynesia.  They do grunt work around the nuclear test sites maintained out there.  Generally considered to be the worst possible assignment.

The Legion is treated like crap by the rest of the French military.  They get the oldest equipment, the least funding, and the worst facilities.  The training is not very good.  Although there is significant emphasis placed on physical training and building espirit de corps, there is less specialized training done and much of it is brutal hazing.  Interestingly enough, many of the "drill instructors" responsible for training a new class of recruits are the top recruits from the class that just graduated.  It tends to institutionalize the hazing.  

The officers are all French; it is a requirement, although after World War 2 some ex-Wehrmacht officers were given commissions due to their superior combat experience.  The personnel is nowhere near the quality found in the U.S. military; as someone stated, the average guy in the Legion is hard up and just looking for a chance to start over.   The personnel is not treated very well; conditions are tough, they are intentionally underfed, and they are not afforded the benefits of the protections from mistreatment that U.S. (or other NATO) servicemembers have.  Pay sucks, too.

The Legion goes through periods where it is composed of a majority of a certain nationality.  After World War 2, it's members were largely German.  After the fall of the Soviet Union, they were predominantly Eastern European/Russian.  Now, it is composed of a large number of arabs or other muslims.  See the trend?  It takes its recruits from whatever the poorest, most beaten down area of the world happens to be at the moment.  Not exactly a recipie for getting the best people.  The non-American/British members of the Legion hate Americans and Brits, as well.  Not only is an American not likely to get in if he tries, but if he does succeed, he will face added abuse merely due to the fact that he is an American.  They call the Americans and British members of the Legion the "English-speaking mafia".

And the person that mentioned that the Legion confiscates anything you bring is correct.  You will lose your entire identity  for the time you spend in service.  No bank account, no passport, no driver's liscence, nothing.  They usually don't hunt down and shoot deserters anymore, as it is not considered to be worth the effort  If you desert with a weapon, however, they will hunt you to the ends of the earth.

To elaborate on the quality of the Legion's equipment:

As recently as the mid 1990s, units were still using the MAS 49/56 and the MAT 49 as individual weapons, and 1 REC was still using AMX-13s and first generation AMX-30s.

The FAMAS didn't work its way into the Legion until the late-1990s.

i can't think of anything i would rather NOT do, than fighting for fucking france.  much less fighting along side guys who "aren't fighting for anything, just to fight"

Quoted: ...After that they can retire on a French hillside and the goverment pays for everything...

That's pretty cool...

why the hell would i want to fight for a country that is not mine.

I saw a special on the unit in the AF that extracts downed pilots and other assorted missions.
They guys looked they could rival just about any unit. The training looked like hell on earth, plus they are all medics.

Anyone familiar with this unit?

Quoted: why the hell would i want to fight for a country that is not mine. I saw a special on the unit in the AF that extracts downed pilots and other assorted missions. They guys looked they could rival just about any unit. The training looked like hell on earth, plus they are all medics. Anyone familiar with this unit?

Stargate.

Quoted: Quoted: they are expendable. So's a condom… Whats the difference between the French Army and a slice of toast? … you can make soldiers out of the toast. Andy

LOL!!!!!

rogerdodger,

U.S. Air Force Pararescue Jumpers

This is a stupid topic, it is all apples and oranges.  My dog is better than your dog, crap.  If it was so easy to be in the Legion or the SEALS, everybody would be there, the fact you are here talking shit pretty much proves you play on the X-Box and not in the real world.

Legionnaires Disease.....

...hmm, I wonder.

The french. Ha! Wine-drinking, beret-embroidering, surrender monkeys.