I'm a little tired and buzzed so i'll tell the complete story tomorrow, but it's a doozy. Basically the army has given my self and a few friends tickets to appear in front of a federal magistrate for tresspassing on their property. There were no signs (army aknowledged that) and BLM maps say we were OK. I am pretty sure we'll get off with the info that we have, BLM road markers, maps and such but I can't seem to find any info on what kind of misdemeanor, A,B,C or infraction this is.

Does anyone have any info to guide us through this process?

After having my face in the dirt, handcuffed, cars ransacked, guns run and 8 hours of my life taken away for a fucking camping trip, I wasn't a happy camper.  I'm sure you guys will want to hear this one so I'll go into specifics on Friday. Thanks!

I took down a fence on a missle siloh in North Dakota while cultivating a field as a 14 year old. It was the first and last time I have ever been handcuffed . I also ended up working the rest of the summer to pay to have the fence fixed.   after that the Air Force made a 25 foot buffer zone between my uncles field and their fence

Which base in Cal?

ANd were you drunk or obnoxious at the time?

SGtar15

I thought those people using come up and say, "Sir, you're trespassing on govt property, please leave!"

Pendleton?

OK, after this I gotta go to bed.
This was 1430 on a Friday, we just got out there to scout a campground like we have done ten times in the last two years.  We were not drunk nor doing anything out of the ordinary, just driving on dirt road. The instigators were two women who were "security" for NASA and immediately had to call for backup because we had guns and they did not. (they asked, we did not brandish) well, 14 vehicles, NASA security, Military Police, Sheriffs and CHP, and damn I forgot the chopper. The CHP didn't know why the hell they were out there and were the first to leave and the sheriffs were the nicest and apparently had no clue whay this whole fiasco was going on. They told us they didn't see any signs on there way in but if the Army says there is then it's up to the CO to make a decision.

At the end of it the MP's said, "well it looks like we'll have to put signs up after this one." One guy even said they don't put signs up for a reason. So secret the BLm doesn't even know the Army owns their land. Location was out by Fort Irwin. Even the damn ticket says Fort Irwin/BLM Boundary. The ticket doesn't even say we were on their land!

NASA?  AT FOrt Irwin?

Sgtar15

damn. got me again. I'll have to check out the map again but NASA has a satellite array right next to and even on the base. NASA said we were on there property first.

From www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/fort-irwin.htm

 The National Training Center (NTC), located at Fort Irwin, CA, is the only instrumented training facility in the world that is suitable for force-on-force and live fire training of heavy brigade-sized military forces. The realistic training provided at the NTC assures soldiers are adequately prepared to protect and preserve US interests here and abroad. Each month the NTC provides 4000-5000 soldiers, from other installations, the essential training opportunities necessary to maintain and improve military readiness and promote national security. The evolving sophistication of military equipment and advances in technology require a comprehensive battlefield that realistically simulates the tempo, range, and intensity of current, and future conflicts. The NTC must provide all the necessary components to achieve world-class training for the world's best Army.

The National Training Center is the Army's premier heavy maneuver Combat Training Center (CTC). As large as the state of Rhode Island, the fully instrumented NTC allows live Brigade level force-on-force exercises to be conducted numerous times each year.

The depth and width of the battle space gives brigade elements the unique opportunity to exercise all of its elements in a realistic environment. This is often a unit’s only opportunity to test its combat service and combat service support elements over a doctrinal distance. BCTs must be able to communicate through up to 8 communications corridors, evacuate casualties over 40 kilometers, and navigate at night in treacherous terrain with few distinguishable roads. Other environmental conditions such as a 40 to 50 degree diurnal temperature range, winds over 45 knots, and constant exposure to the sun stresses every system and soldier to their limit.

Fort Irwin is located approximately 37 miles northeast of Barstow, California in the High Mojave Desert midway between Las Vegas, Nevada and Los Angeles, California. The installation is surrounded by desert hills and mountains. Natural vegetation is sparse and consists of mesquite, creosote, yucca's, and other low growing plants. Beautiful sunsets, blue skies, sunny days and wide open vistas are some of the pleasures of the desert and give many a sense of freedom. Do, however, expect the primary colors to be tan and brown. For those needing to see green, Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead are two hours away providing tall trees and lakes.

Quoted: NASA?  AT FOrt Irwin? Sgtar15

Yes earthling... that is area #52

Well, if you hear a 155mm Howziter round going over your head, then I guess you're on Ft. Irwin property. I think it was a bit of over-reaction on the those women security people, too much BS from the news media. Keep us posted what happens, I think they will just give a slap on the wrists and say "don't do that again."

Pendleton is a Marine Base.

Goldstone Nasa Facility is right next to Ft. Irwin.  Lot of private property up there too interspersed with BLM land south of both the above.

Getting a little hot now though.

Do any of you look muslim?

Quoted: Do any of you look muslim?

Glad I didn't ask that.

Good question however..

SGtar15

Were the NASA chicks cute?

Quoted: Pendleton is a Marine Base. Goldstone Nasa Facility is right next to Ft. Irwin.  Lot of private property up there too interspersed with BLM land south of both the above. Getting a little hot now though.

Sorry, did not see him mention the Army.

Quoted: Quoted: Do any of you look muslim? Glad I didn't ask that. Good question however.. SGtar15

It is an honest question though . Realisticly if any of them look Arabic , I could see security going ape shit at a group of people on the perimiter of a base with guns .

Quoted: NASA has a satellite array right next to and even on the base.

Didn't know who owned the satellite array.... we drove through that area while on our way to one of the maneuver areas,
(I have a picture somewhere) and the one impression I remember was thinking that the closer we got, the more we realized
just how big they really were. "DAYUMMMMMM...."

Quoted: damn. got me again. I'll have to check out the map again but NASA has a satellite array right next to and even on the base. NASA said we were on there property first.

Bullshit, it's got to be aliens.  

Quoted: Quoted: NASA has a satellite array right next to and even on the base. Didn't know who owned the satellite array.... we drove through that area while on our way to one of the maneuver areas, (I have a picture somewhere) and the one impression I remember was thinking that the closer we got, the more we realized just how big they really were. "DAYUMMMMMM...."

When I went to Ft. Irwin in 97, those satellite dishes were inop!  At Yakima Training Center there is a "Research Station" that is run by the NSA!

Quoted: Fort Irwin is located approximately 37 miles northeast of Barstow, California in the High Mojave Desert midway between Las Vegas, Nevada and Los Angeles, California. The installation is surrounded by desert hills and mountains. Natural vegetation is sparse and consists of mesquite, creosote, yucca's, and other low growing plants. Beautiful sunsets, blue skies, sunny days and wide open vistas are some of the pleasures of the desert and give many a sense of freedom. Do, however, expect the primary colors to be tan and brown. For those needing to see green, Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead are two hours away providing tall trees and lakes.

That is one place where you can safely fire a 155mm cannon at maximum elevation. But the beaches of L.A. is only a 2 1/2 hour drive away.

Just outside of Barstow are the outside of the gates of the supply is the USMC supply depot, one of the largest west of the Mississippi. The town has spread out all up to its gates.

Quoted: Were the NASA chicks cute?

Tang. The breakfast of astronauts.

This took place just a couple of months after 9/11.

My brother & I were riding our dirt bikes exploring the Calico area (next to Ft Irwin). We saw a dry lake bed from one the mountain tops, one of two in the vicinity. We hadn't been to this one before, plus it was much larger than the one closer to our camp. We decided to go for some high speed runs on the dry lake bed.

When we got to the opposite side of the dry lake bed, after we were goofing off. We noticed a very wide road we thought was a mining road. Tire tracks were huge, more like those gigantic dump truck you see in mining operations.

We decided to follow the road a bit to see where it led. We paid particular attention to any signs about tress passing, etc.. none to be found.

Just before we came upon the next mountain ridge we see some dust clouds from three vehicle. We figured some off roaders on 4X4s. About 15 minutes past the dry lake bed @ approx 60 mph, we notice a few speed limit signs of 25 mph in the middle of nowhere (desert trails, no pavements). Then we see these "Endangered Species - Desert Tortoise - Please slow down.." We thought the signs were funny as hell, out in the middle of the boonies.

As the dust cloud get closer, I can see that they were military Humvees. Instead of turning around, we kept going. (no signs saying we weren't supposed to be there). When we passed the first two Humvees the soldiers (all geared to the max with their Interceptor vests & kevlar) all waved at us and gave us the thumbs up or peace signs. We wave back and gave the thumbs up sign also.

We had just competed in a desert race the week before and they were passing out American Flag stickers at the race. I had a couple on my front number plates, so I thought they were just giving us props for it, plus we were in Red, Whit and Blue gear on blue Yamaha's.

I notice the last Humvee was just sitting on top of the next ridge. I could see that these guys had soft caps on, instead of the Kevlar helmets of the guys we had passed earlier. I told my bro that I think they were MPs and that we should think about turning around soon... just in case. Just about where we were going to do our u-turn we come upon a huge billboard. On it it had pictures off all kinds of bombs, artillery shells, cluster ammunition, etc... On top it said that this was Ft Irwin bombing range, No Trespassing, Not to touch or go near any of the ordinances picture below, bla bla bla...

We do our u-turn as these guys watched us and nonchalantly turn back. We gain up and pass up the earlier Humvees and kick it a couple of notches to get out of there, just in case they had other MPs trying to intercept us before we got to the dry lake bed. At the dry lake bed it was full blast at 90+ mph back to camp.

Not the only time we've run into a bombing range out in the middle of nowhere. Same thing out by George AFB.

In high school we used to ride in the fields, where our fathers were stationed and we lived on base. We were riding in one of our usual spots. My buddies got caught (I got away) riding too close to the ammo bunkers that stored the nuclear bombs on Mather AFB (SAC base with B52s). We were still 3/4 to a mile from the ammo bunkers. We had Air Force MPs in cammo, jump out of some bushes to stop and catch my buddies. No biggy...one of my friends that was caught, his father was the Chief MSgt of the MPs. Just told us to stay away from the bunkers.

Quoted: This took place just a couple of months after 9/11. My brother & I were riding our dirt bikes exploring the Calico area (next to Ft Irwin). We saw a dry lake bed from one the mountain tops, one of two in the vicinity. We hadn't been to this one before, plus it was much larger than the one closer to our camp. We decided to go for some high speed runs on the dry lake bed. When we got to the opposite side of the dry lake bed, after we were goofing off. We noticed a very wide road we thought was a mining road. Tire tracks were huge, more like those gigantic dump truck you see in mining operations. We decided to follow the road a bit to see where it led. We paid particular attention to any signs about tress passing, etc.. none to be found. Just before we came upon the next mountain ridge we see some dust clouds from three vehicle. We figured some off roaders on 4X4s. About 15 minutes past the dry lake bed @ approx 60 mph, we notice a few speed limit signs of 25 mph in the middle of nowhere (desert trails, no pavements). Then we see these "Endangered Species - Desert Tortoise - Please slow down.." We thought the signs were funny as hell, out in the middle of the boonies. As the dust cloud get closer, I can see that they were military Humvees. Instead of turning around, we kept going. (no signs saying we weren't supposed to be there). When we passed the first two Humvees the soldiers (all geared to the max with their Interceptor vests & kevlar) all waved at us and gave us the thumbs up or peace signs. We wave back and gave the thumbs up sign also. We had just competed in a desert race the week before and they were passing out American Flag stickers at the race. I had a couple on my front number plates, so I thought they were just giving us props for it, plus we were in Red, Whit and Blue gear on blue Yamaha's. I notice the last Humvee was just sitting on top of the next ridge. I could see that these guys had soft caps on, instead of the Kevlar helmets of the guys we had passed earlier. I told my bro that I think they were MPs and that we should think about turning around soon... just in case. Just about where we were going to do our u-turn we come upon a huge billboard. On it it had pictures off all kinds of bombs, artillery shells, cluster ammunition, etc... On top it said that this was Ft Irwin bombing range, No Trespassing, Not to touch or go near any of the ordinances picture below, bla bla bla... We do our u-turn as these guys watched us and nonchalantly turn back. We gain up and pass up the earlier Humvees and kick it a couple of notches to get out of there, just in case they had other MPs trying to intercept us before we got to the dry lake bed. At the dry lake bed it was full blast at 90+ mph back to camp. Not the only time we've run into a bombing range out in the middle of nowhere. Same thing out by George AFB. In high school we used to ride in the fields, where our fathers were stationed and we lived on base. We were riding in one of our usual spots. My buddies got caught (I got away) riding too close to the ammo bunkers that stored the nuclear bombs on Mather AFB (SAC base with B52s). We were still 3/4 to a mile from the ammo bunkers. We had Air Force MPs in cammo, jump out of some bushes to stop and catch my buddies. No biggy...one of my friends that was caught, his father was the Chief MSgt of the MPs. Just told us to stay away from the bunkers.

If that was Leech Lake at Ft. Irwin, good thing you turned around! I went in there one time and it was littered with BLU-97's, Rockeyes, "softballs", etc!  We entered one area and promptly moved away as BLU-97's were everywhere (USAF, said they didn't drop them, yea right).  That Dry lake bed was fucking Furnace, easily 130+ degrees!!!

Ok the security chicks didn't have guns /why/ ?

None of us are Arab looking by the way.
Basically we had headed out with three guys in two vehicles looking for a campsite out by Goldstone and were to meet up with four others maybe two hours behind us. We told the single guy to stay put while we headed up a trail for a site. When we came back 15 minutes later we saw a security vehicle with a woman yeling at us to come over. (she was at this time right behind my friends truck) As we got within 25 yards he told us to "halt! military police". She had another "officer" with her but they both would not come close to us. She stood on her truck radioing her location, and us knowing where we were she was doing a mighty shitty job.

As I had turned off my truck and tried to listen to her communications I overheard that she had the "suspect" on the ground and he had pointed a gun at her offensively! WTF! Seh finally decided to come down to us and ask if we were armed. I thought it quit peculier considering where we were. She asked fr our ID's and this is where things "might" have gone a different direction. She asked my passenger who said NO, who are you? she said she was security. He asked with who, and we got NASA. She wasn't a sheriff or an MP though she originally called herself MP. She didn't take kindly to that and then said security will be here shortly.

Finally 20 minutes later two vehicles(which we had passed and waved to on the way out there) came up behind and we basically BS'd with them about why we were out there and such. When the main guy asked if we had guns and we said yes, he had a look of extreme dissapointment and said we would have to wait till the MP's got here. Fuck!

One the Mp's got there they ran up the the girls, where our friend was having a polite chat with the nasa guy while sitting on the ground. With two guys not including MP's there the chick said she felt threatened and scared  so the MP's proceded to hogtie our friend and take his shoes off. 88 degrees, face down in the dirt. Remember, we had heard he had pointed a gun at her when they drove up, I saw her do the manuever immitating him from a low ready to a weaver stance. This is what we had heard of his situation so far. I couldn't really believe it, it made no sense, 35 YO responsible married guy, doesn't compute.

I'll skip ahead two hours. Finally everyone started getting behind our two vehicles and I saw to vehicles take rear flanking moves at about 7:30, 6, 4:30. I told my friend it looks like the shit is going down and to do whatever the fuck they say...slooooowly. Didn't hear any M16's but I counted about 8 Berreta's slides racking. Dude, I'm just here to fucking camp! up to this time we had many people up to the truck talking to us, we were very cordial and polite and nobody seemed threatened except "the bitch".

Well,  after the usual get out of car, raise shirt, turn around, take off shirt with one hand crap, and the genital frisking of my life, I too was handcuffed, behind my back, face own in the dirt. This lasted about 1.5 hours and countless questioning as to who I was and my damn address. By this time I had counted 14 different vehicles and when the damn chopper(nice jet ranger) flew in I thought we were royally srewed. I still didn't know why or for what and neither did the sheriffs and chp that were there.

I'll speed this up. We were finally put in the back of  a sheriffs car,  which didn't seem like good news however I was in the car with the original guy that had been accused of pointing his weapon at the broad. I was about to kill him(somehow) and he stated that he had just bought the gun, sprngfield xd40 and had oiled it too much and had taken in apart on his tailgate wiping it down when the chick drove up and went apeshit and ordered him on the ground. Funny thing is I had overheard one of the nasa guys talking to the an MP and he stated that the gun had been taken apart. Well gee, who the fuck could have done that? The fuckin boad freaked out and caused this whole fucking mess.

We were finally taken out of the patrol car, uncuffed, alowed to piss(oh yeah, couple minutes before this we saw everyone coming dow the hill with our guns and ammo cans and we thought this is it, we are going to jail for something, don't know what yet though)
The sheriff had said he didn't see anything to arest us for and we were just out here doing what everyone else does. He said that the army stated we were on their property but didn't see any signs but that wasn't his concern. They basically escorted us to the base where the CO decied to give us tresspasing tickets. We got our guns back and left at 9pm for another far away campsite.

Forgot to add that our friends who were behind us a while had been just two miles away handcuffed at the side of the road. They said they could hear all the communications and the best part was when they were counting and recording the guns they said "holy crap,  we keep on finding more guns!" After all this one of the sheriffs mentioned he didn't know anyone with more guns than him and said it would have been one hell of a firefight!  

That's basically it. I go to court in two weeks.

Get a criminal lawyer. Resolve the criminal case, and then sue the living shit out of the agencies invoved, and when you settle, make sure it's for the cash, plus the discharge of the two stupid bitches who started the whole thing. The story you tell is outrageous. Jobs should be lost, children should go hungry, stupid Goddamned affirmative-action hires should become $2 barfly whores over this. Remind your civil lawyer to depose the rational officers first.

ETA: make sure the criminal lawyer knows you plan to sue - you may be able to get 1 lawyer to handle both.

Quoted: Get a criminal lawyer. Resolve the criminal case, Do that. and then sue the living shit out of the agencies invoved, and when you settle, make sure it's for the cash, plus the discharge of the two stupid bitches who started the whole thing. You wont get jack shit , and they will still have thier job and be gunning for you if they ever see you again. The story you tell is outrageous. Jobs should be lost, children should go hungry, stupid Goddamned affirmative-action hires should become $2 barfly whores over this. Remind your civil lawyer to depose the rational officers first. Should and will are two different things . ETA: make sure the criminal lawyer knows you plan to sue - you may be able to get 1 lawyer to handle both. Good luck getting a lawyer that will take on .gov in a mil town. P.S. they will all have a conflict of interest but they will never tell you they do .

Sucks but true .

Edit because that post was all fucked up.

They hang trespassers during war ... could spend time in Gitmo

Just tell your story to the judge who is probably more human than your average civil judge.

Sounds like a crappy situation.  Hopefully nothing comes from it.

Looks like a run in with the garden variety stupid-ass gov't employee.  I don't know how they keep finding such retards, but I suppose McDonalds wasn't hiring that week.  I think they actively recruit angry, powerhungery women with absolutely no business interacting with other human beings.

The people with any REAL authority (the cops and mil.) were just doing their jobs,  I don't fault them.

www.off-road.com/dirtbike/features/2004/coppercity/

The Copper City area is roughly triangular shaped, bordered on one side by Rainbow Basin and the Black Canyon Wilderness area, on another side by Fort Irwin and the Goldstone Tracking Station (NASA) and on the third side by Irwin Road. Within the area is possible to stumble upon mining claims (some still active), an FAA Tower, Microwave Towers, small pockets of civilization and at least one old miner's cabin that is maintained by the locals as a party hangout. Most of the Open Routes are near the peak of the ridge between Rainbow Basin and Superior Dry Lake and are easily accessed off of Copper City Road.

As with any Limited Use Area, it is important to stay on the posted trails. The good news about this area is that most of the trails are posted as open. Perhaps this is because this area was never used as a "cross country" area and therefore doesn't have enough scarring to cause the environmentalists to cringe. Regardless, it is a gem of a place. It is also a rather large and hilly area, so it is very easy to get lost. It is a good idea to keep a bearing on the tallest feature in the area so that you can keep some idea of where you are in relation to where you started.

Did I mention that is easy to get lost in this area? I can't stress this enough. I am originally from the desert and know most of the desert surrounding Barstow like the back of my hand, so if I say it is easy to get lost here you will want to be extra careful. While this can be an imposing thought, what it really means is that you should take your time to get to know the area before venturing too far from the truck. Just remember that if you keep going you will eventually hit a wide dirt road that leads to pavement, a paved road that leads to town, a Wilderness Area that is well marked or a military base that is completely off limits. If you have a basic understanding of the layout of the area this should tell you which direction you need to go to get back to where you started.

From the access points off of Copper City road, most of the open riding area will be to the West, towards the Black Canyon Wilderness area. One of the best staging areas that I have found is just North of the FAA Tower. The tower is accessed by following a power line road at the crest of the ridge on Copper City Road. You will find that this tower is shown on both the AAA map of Southern California as well as the BLM maps of the area. The unfortunate thing about the BLM maps is that they are in quadrants and the Barstow area falls at the corner of four different quadrants, so to have all of the pertinent information about the area surrounding Barstow you will have to purchase four different maps from the BLM. These are available from the local BLM office in Barstow at six bucks a pop.

I thought the sheriffs were the most professional of the bunch and weren't too thrilled to be driving their cruisers 30 miles off road for nothing. At the base the chick that made the call took forfrickinever to write her report and I could hear all the guys bitchin n moaning about what the hell was she doing. This looks like a total CYA to me, they COULDN'T just let us go after 14 vehicles and the fucking chopper, we HAD to get something. We have maps from the BLM and we recorded road markers on our way in, The facts look to be on our side.

I originally was thinking that two woman alone out in the middle of nowhere should be armed. However, it sickens me to think that this dumb broad would have shot my friend for cleaning his dissasembled pistol on the tailgate. I have been with groups of guys and the rangers and MP's have come up to us while we were armed to the teeth and said nothing. We would talk for 1/2 hour about laws and crap while strapping AK's and AR's. No problems. These shitheads see a fucking slide and call out a fucking division on us? come on!

I heard this chicks story got even better as time went on showing the stances by friend "allegedly" took and that we were agressive to her in our vehicle. We did refuse our licenses till an actual officer showed up but we were truly nothing but polite and cordial, right below ass kissing to everyone.
i'm almost sure they know she was bullshitting her story so I hope heads roll a bit on this one.

For God's sake, get a lawyer. I will send money to help, and put in a call for "professional courtesy" if need be, but GET A LAWYER.

i still have not been able to find out what kind of charge it is we are facing and the penalties. Anyone know? We are going to court and it will either be dismissed or we'll have to plead not guilty and get a lawyer. i like the first option. We were told to call someone to get a date, I believe it was the provost marshall and he stated from the looks of it it was a misunderstanding and it will probably be dismissed. Hope so.

I would be curious, who are the people that rough up you and your group?

i wouldn't say we were roughed up. The actions were all pretty much normal procedure for maybe an armed felony stop. I just didn't know why were were being treated the way we were, ie faces in the ground hands behind our backs. We had done absofuckinglutely nothing wrong.  We had numerous peeople come right up to us in the truck and ask how things were going, what were we doing, had we been out here before. Normal questions and a little casual conversation.

After the chambering the rds the guy got on the bull horn and had the balls to ask us "is there any reason you are refusing to exit the vehicle?" I'd been wanting to get out of the car for two hours and had asked them repeatedly. they told us to stay inside.

This whole thing was what the gov't actually meant by shock and awe.

Dude, do not wait until the hearing to get a lawyer.  Get one NOW!  Take up FL's advice man!!!  That sounds like a total clusterfuck.  Is there a judge in the world that would uphold a trespassing charge without signage of any type?  Seriously, that broad needs her ass kicked down to mopping floors, and  I really like the part about how they wouldn't let you get out of the truck, then got on the bullhorn and asked if there was any reason why you wouldn't get out.......that must have been when they got the video camera rolling for their own CYA.

Grrrr.....