Going shopping for a new ride for the wife.  Anyone drive one of these?

I drive a Dodge Ram so I'm all set, but she needs a new car.

nice car, but take a look at the '03 and later corolla, it's just as big as the older camrys and gets better fuel economy, up to 40mpg on the highway.

Will do, thank you for the advice.  I'll check that out.  She's pretty bent on one of these mid-size 4 door cars.

To me shopping for cars is like shopping for guns, I always spend more than I should getting options I probably could live without.

But it's an adventure.  Does anyone know of any standing problems with Camry's?

oh yeah, one other thing on the camry, I would avoid toyotas 6cyls, the 4 bangers are more than adequate and much more reliable.  I have direct experience with a few of their 6cyls lunching themselves, but never a problem with the 4s. Oh, and according to consumer reports, the camry is almost flawless.

LOL, change the oil regularly and you won't have a problem with the Camry V-6.

Drive the 4 and the V-6 before you choose.

The V-6 is perfect, and if you stay off the gas you get good milage.
My wife averages 24 MPG with the V-6, unless I am driving.

If you guys like driving, you may find the Camry a little too bland.  Perhaps check out the Nissan Altima or a 2002/2003 Maxima.  I own a 2003 Maxima...and I absolutely love it.

Funny you mention the Maxima.  We test drove a 2003 Maxima SE (sunroof, all the bells n whistles, metallic grey, etc) and it was MOST sweet.

Little too high for the budget though.  I was hoping the dealership would just 'move the car' off the lot but they didn't want to take that big a loss I guess.

The Altimas look good as well, although we're selling a tired 97 Altima to fund this car.

My biggest concern about the Camry is that, like Zippy eluded to, is that it's a little to bland on the eyes.  This may be my own fault though, I drive a suped up Ram, so every car looks the same to me.

Seems like the Camry is a nice ride though, I appreciate all this feedback.

The Camry is the perfect soul-less driving appliance for those who care nothing about cars and don't want any hassle. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you're looking for.

For a car with a pulse, check out the new (2002 & later) Nissan Altima. It is significantly different than the 97 that you are trading in, and is a blast to drive.

Don't know about the Camry, but have a 97 Corolla (automatic) with 140,000 miles on it.  Thing runs and drives like new yet.  Great car.  Sisters have had had Toyotas and Hondas...they haven't had a bad one yet.  They have all been great cars.......damn japs, anyway.

vmax84

Well, I hate cars in general, especially ricers. Having said that, I just had to rent a car to take a trip with. (wife has a stripped ZX2, no cruise, no power anything, no room, and I drive an F250 w/a V10, has all the goodies, but BAD gas milage) We ended up with an Impala. Very nice car, good power, GREAT gas milage for a V6 (over 30 mpg), lots of room. If you don't mind domestics (some people HATE American cars for some reason), test drive one, I was impressed.

You're in Maine, so maybe this isn't relevant, but Camry's are the most-stolen car in the US.  My mom has one, is hyper paranoid about that.

The wife's got a '93, it's extremely reliable. The only major problem we had with it is the air conditioning system. We've got the 4cyl engine, extremely good gas mileage. I don't know what the fun factor is, to me driving is just that, driving.

Wife's '93 V6 wagon, purchased new, now has 77K miles. Aside from tires, brakes, battery, belts, hoses, etc, the maintenance items, the only true repair was two radio knobs for a total of $4. Oil is changed 2X yearly, trans pan drained and 3 fresh qts Dexron  added 1X yearly.
If you want reliable, you won't do better than a Camry. For just around town a Corolla will do fine also, the Camry being a better car for trips, etc.

We have an 02 model, 4cyl. It was not the first car on our list, but after many budget problems it quickly came to the top of our list. My father has always sworn by the Camry and has owned his for 8 years with no problems. My grandmother who has always been the luxury car driver, i.e. Caddy, Mercedes, gave up those cars for a Camry. And she loved it. I knew if she could do that then I needed to look at this car at least. The 4 cylinder is suprisingly fast for such a large car, and my previous car was a 4 cylinder. Its quiet and has a smooth ride. But thats comming from my experience with my previous cars. Yes it has an overall blandness to it, but In this time of my life Im willing to accept that in exchange for reliability and affordability.

Very bland, very reliable, very stolen!  But the best thing is how they hold their value compared to American cars.  Used car guys (Several in the family) will tell you they would love to get their hands on all the used Toys and Hondas they can.  Much less headaches with getting them ready for resale and no real reliablity issues.  People also know this and will look for them. Same thing with Chevy trucks.  People will pay extra for one.  Most smart used car buyers will pass on Fords and Dodges.

I test drove the Camry and absolutely hated it.  The steering is awfully mushy.  If you like mushy steering, then it's probably ok.  If you like a tighter feel and more road feedback, look elsewhere.

The Infiniti G35 looks nice!

From a mechanics point of view the Camry is a very good car. The 4 cylinder is stronger than I expected but still not lively enough to consider purchasing it over the smooth V6. The Toyota 6 cyl motor is very responsive off the line and has nice power throughout the entire RPM range. The 4 cyl needs to be driven too hard to keep up with a more aggressive driver compared to the 6. The car is built very well and I don't see them in my shop for a lot of big repairs, mostly basic maintenance, tires, brakes etc. Bland but strong and reliable, great choice for those who need a super dependable daily driver with some balls.

For comparable vehicles in the same 'class'

I'm guessing the Nissan Altima? Ford ... Taurus?, Honda Accord?

Love the Maxima, but it's a little out of the price range.  Funny thing about Camry's, I never noticed ANY cars and could never differeniate between any of them.  But since I've been thrown into car shopping, I'm seeing Camry's all over the place!

When we bought my fiance's '01 Jetta we test drove the Camry, Accord, IS300, Maxima, etc...

They have changed a little since then, but I have always found the Camry line to be a little "sterile" for my liking.  The new model my be different, but I can't stand the exterior now, so I haven't even looked inside one.

[red]I would really suggest an [b][size=4]Infiniti G35[/b][/size=4][/red]...I think my co-worker got her's for under $32K.

Ed

Just to shake things up a little bit...

Have you considered the new Prius? It's now supposed to be as roomy as the Camry (and is faster than the 4-cylinder model), costs under $20K well-equipped, and has some of the most impressive engineering seen on any car in the past 30 years.

Aside from the claimed 60 MPG (in the city, no less!), buyers get a $2K tax incentive – Could actually cost less to own over the long run than a Corolla.

Hadn't considered that at all, I'll look it up, I could certainly go for 60mpg!

Nothing wrong with the Camry - it's just your basic sedan. My '91 is still going strong with 191,000 and there's also a '92 in the family with 210,000 or so and also doing well. The new Camry's have gotten bigger as time has gone by - like cduarte said, the new Corolla's are about the size of my Camry if not a little taller.

A G35 for $32???


Hell, for that kind of money, I'd get a BMW and have a real car. And they are IMPOSSIBLE TO STEAL short of towing it away.

And it is anything but bland!!!

Nice car but it is no Buick LeSabre.  Check out the LeSabre.

GunLvr

Good luck finding a Prius for sale.  Most all of them have been presold.  Expect to pay oversticker for one.  Great cars though.

If you want a V6 Camry, get the SE V6.  It has the 3.3 liter V6 in it which produces 225 HP.    Same V6 thats in the Lexux ES 330 and Sienna Van.  The Le and XLE V6 Camrys have the 3.0 liter V6 in them which produces 192 HP.

Great programs on Camrys right now in Arizona.  The programs differ based on region.  Im not sure what incentives they are running in Maine, but in Arizona there is 0% @48mos, 1.9% @60mos, or $750 rebate.

My parents have driven them since 1990... I learned to drive in them... And promptly bought a Firebird for my first car!

They're underpowered go-karts (4-banger varieties, anyhow) of the 'must floor it to reach 55mph in time to merge' variety...

BIG underpowered go-karts compared to a Civic or Corolla, but still...

Then again, most women don't care about such things, and would rather merge at 40mph than buy 'more' car...

IMHO, a Pontiac Grand Am with a 3.4L V6 is a much better choice for a 'wife car'...

Also, a note on Camry engines:

My mother's current car is a 1996 4cyl Camry...

She bought it 'certified pre-owned' in 2000, and the engine literally self destructed (threw a rod) 5 months later.... My Dad had changed the oil properly, and there was oil in the crankcase, so it wasn't a maintanance issue... Fortunately, there was one month of warranty left, or it would have been on the way to the scrap heap...

I have *never* heard of a properly maintained 6yo GM motor Ka-Boom (I feel a Glock joke coming on)... This car has also suffered from borken door handles and pieces of inside-trim falling off... So much for 'Japanese Quality'...

anything man made is prone to failure.  Toyotas are less prone to failure than GM cars.  No sane person can argue this.  Its FACT.

I've owned 2 Camry's. I've loved both of them.  I would by one again.  I had a 1994 and still have my 2001.

My dad bought a Camry new in 94' and is still driving it. Its a 4cyl auto 4Door. He just uses it as a commuter car. A couple years ago the motor blew up at 180,000 miles. Got a new moter put in it 30k "teriaki take out" (sp) I belive. It now has about 215000 on it. Other that the moter going the only other problem with it was the heter core wnt out and the power up antanna has been stuck in the up position for a long time. I think the antanne moter went out when the car was about 5 years old. fairly reliable if ya ask me. still on the original transmission also. Not exactly a sporty car and kinda lacks power but for your basic everyday commuter its ok. If I was buying a car for just a basic get around car Id look at a VW diesle like maby a golf or somthing. they get around 50mpg. and diesle prices around here are usually a little cheaper than gas. Has anyone heard bad things onVW diesles?

I bought a new Camry 4 cylinder in 2000. The body is so tin like that you can dent it with the tips of your fingers so avoid parking lots.

The angle of the roof makes water run in on your door locks and window controls so avoid water.

The water pump will go out at about 40,000 miles on the four banger.

The four banger has not enough power on hills or anywhere else when car is full.

The suspension is very weak so you have to drive slow or bust a shock.

Radio antenae is sub standard.

cup holders are weak so don't let kids(anyone under 50) near them.

You can't use ARCO gasoline as the vehicle won't run.

No I will never buy one again.

Tom

Hardly fact, unless you confine your 'fact' to 4-cyl vehicles...

American car companies SUCK at producing 4-bangers (the converse applies to Japanese vehicles, the smaller the motor the more reliable it gets. Suzuki's motorcycle engines are practically bulletproof)...

However, your average V8 or V6 GM car (esp the V8s) will outlast it's 4-cyl counterpart... Especially 5.7L and 3.8L vehicles...

There's a reason there are so many 20+ year-old US cars puttering around out there... WRT engine design, simple/big = reliable... The more you try and pull out of a machine (Japanese design philosophy: why put the right size engine in when we can just tune up a cheaper-but-smalller motor) the faster it dies...

One more note:

[b]AVOID HYBRIDS LIKE THE PLAGUE[/b]

Why? Because they contain [b]BATTERIES[/b], and rely on their [b]BATTERIES{/b] for more than just starting the motor & regulating current.

And [b]ALL RECHARGABLE BATTERIES[/b] eventually stop taking a charge, usually after 5 years (give or take one or two)...

The cost of replacing a whole bank of batteries is going to be so high you might as well get a new car!

Remember, to a 'car company', you're supposed to buy a new car every 3-5yrs, so when they say the batteries should last the 'expected life of the car', think 'life of the warranty' - that's when they expect you to buy a new one....

This is based on my experience with all manner of battery-op devices, from cell phones to laptops to cars & motorcycles... I'll believe those batteries last the 'expected life of the car' when I see a 10-15yo Prius puttering around town...

If we are talking about NEW cars, then you're not going to get that great of a BMW for a mere $32K. The G35 is the best value in the class, and it also has the same anti-theft system as the BMW. Most new cars in this price range have a similar anti-theft system. It's certainly not exclusive to BMW.

In Germany, and most of Europe, BMW's are no more exclusive than a Buick or a Lincoln. They are nice cars, no doubt, but it's only in the USA that they achieve the aura of supremacy and correspondingly drastic price inflation that is beyond what they truly, objectively deserve.

I owned a Toyota Camery for 3 years and about 50k miles. It was the best car that I have ever owned. Not one thing was wrong with it, not a bulb or a rattle, nothing. It also held it's resale value well. The only thing that supprised me was that I averaged about 20mpg.

Camry's are great cars!  They run forever, they have very few problems, quality construction...  Just generally a great car all around.  Good safety ratings, and plenty of positive things about them.

HOWEVER, that being said, I agree, check out the new Corolla models.  They are also very good cars, very reliable, problem-free, great features, and good safety ratings.  The gas mileage, and the cost savings are most definitely worth it to me...

I drive valet, 200+ cars per day, and I drive an ungodly variety of new and used cars.  Toyotas are fantastic cars, and are pretty much the best bargains on the market (especially the corolla).

Personally, I'd have to further look into the variations of these three vehicles to finalize my decision, but I've gotten things (My list of great budget cars) narrowed down to either:
1.) Toyota Matrix
2.) Toyota Corolla
3.) Toyota Prius (Using Hybrid Synergy Drive [gas/electric combo])
4.) Mercury Cougar (Manual Transmission)

These cars all have great performance and handling...  Good gas mileage, reasonable prices, and other good features.  I'm a little leary about the Prius, because it's so new in concept/design, but seems to handle nicely.

I've driven all sorts of cars on my job.  Military Hummers, Hummer 1's, Hummer H2's, 'Vettes, Camaros, Mercedes', GM / American cars...  Many kinds.  I'll just state the obvious fact that the Civilian hummers SUCK ASS.  Most Hondas are grossly overrated (especially compared to toyotas).  'Ricing' a car does little or nothing for its performance...

My list of sports cars I'd like: (that are realistically attainable)
Honda S2000
Mercedes Kompressor Sporty Convertible
Mercedes SL Series (soon hope to drive an SLR)
Toyota MR2

Edited:  I chose the Matrix for my list of great budget cars because of its performance.  It has fantastic handling, a great turn radius (better than the camry, and many comparable cars), is reliable (like all toyotas), looks much less "bland" as some people call the camry, has great features, and a great price.  

Some people have suggested the Nissan Altimas, and other Nissans.  They are nice cars, but several of the relatively new ones I've driven (30K miles or so) have quirky auto-transmissions where they 'jump' or 'clunk' from one gear to another.  This is likely due to the owners beating their car to death in less than a year or so, but it also could be a problem with the transmissions as well.

I'll stick with the Matrix for its performance, options, and price.

You can not go wrong with any Toyota product, the Camry is probably their best. I put 250K on mine before trading, great car!!

So's my 97 Z28... Almost EVERY car worth the time of day has a microchip/resistor-key system these days... GM has had it in the Firebird/Camaro since 1991, maybe earlier... If you don't have the key, you are NOT starting the car... Of course, this can be overridden, but it takes 13 specific resistors, and possibly over an hour of time (since each time you do it wrong, it locks out the engine computer for 5min, ergo no start)...

Beemers are (a) EXPENSIVE, and (B) rather boxy/ugly... Besides, a sedan is a sedan... Get a good V6 GM product, you'll do quite fine (and not pay the sticker shock of a Euro or Jap product)...

As for the Matrix (and it's Pontiac-licensed clone) if you like the Civic hatchback look (and the accompanying attention of stereo thieves, since the major selling point of these cars is for kids who want to put thumpers in the hatch), ok...

Of course, my choice for a car is, and will remain as long as I can get them, a 6-10yo (50,000 - 75,000 mi) V8 Firebird/Camaro... I can reasonably expect said car to reach 200-250k (Chevy V8 -> the ultimate 'bulletproof' car motor, the transmission design (4L60/700R4) has been in use since the mid 80's, etc), they go for $6,000-$8,000 and I get better performance than many of the comparable new imports (Celica, Eclipse, etc...) selling for $20k and an expected life around 150k and horridly expensive parts if it breaks (350 Chevy parts are a dime a dozen). Gas milage is 17-22mpg...

I didn't expect so many replies, thanks everyone!

I'll be shopping today, I'll update this evening!

Cheers,

H

AVALON

The Camry is a very reliable car with moderate performance making it the most popular car of it's type.

That being said it is like buttholes and everyone has one.  The ride is not exceptional nor is the performance.  The looks are ordinary since it's so popular.

In short, it is an old person's car, however if you are looking to blend in with traffic it's the right car. It is a good value for the money just kind of plain.

Tj

So long as I can parkerize it, I'm okay with it!

In the end, it has to be tactical[BD]

The 2004 Prius has an 8-yr/100,000 mile warranty on the traction battery.  And in some places, it's even longer due to local laws (150,000 miles in CA, I believe).  And the battery is expected to last significantly longer than that.

The battery bank is also modular in design, allowing a single failed cell to be replaced  without having to replace the entire battery bank.  So far in the US, I have heard of only one battery failure, and that was from was an audio installer accidently drilling into the battery. [:)]  I'm sure it's happened a couple of times, but certainly not enough to pop up on the radar as a potential problem.

The electrical system also maintains the battery's charge at a fairly even level.  It's not going through hundreds of repeated deep discharges like a cell phone or laptop would.  These batteries really are going to last a long time.  If you did need to replace the entire battery bank, it's currently said to be around $4000.  That is kinda steep, but it just hasn't been needed yet.  And as Toyota ramps up production, expect that price to have dropped quite a bit by the time replacements are needed (It'd take me 10 years to hit 150K miles).  

A taxi driver in Canada drove a 2001 model over 200,000 miles and reported no problems, AFAIK.  Toyota gave him a new 2003 model in exchange for his 2001 so they could tear it apart for research on the effects of longer-term wear.  These Toyota guys know how to do things!

Well, the other night I bought my wife a 2003 Toyota Camry.  It had 15k on it and was in excellent condition.

I thought it looked a little boring myself, but she's all over it so hey, if she's happy with it, and she is, then I'm happy.

Thanks for all the advice.  Hopefully I'll be chiming in on a Camry thread 10 years from now talking about how reliable they are.

[beer]
h

hey, I think I've ridden in Engineer's Camry. He had it painted to match his red coaster wagon (or visa versa!). Doesn't have any bullet holes though, like his pal danno man's ride!!!

We got a '98 two years ago with 27K for under $12K.

EXCELLENT car.

Toyotas run FOREVER.  Love 'em.

Test drove a Camry because of all the good things I heard about it.

I was impressed, but not overly.

I ended up buying of all things a Chevy Impala LS.  I like it a whole lot more than the Camry.

Funny story about my family and myself.

During the 80s when everyone was buying Toyotas and Hondas because they were so "great" my parents bought an Accord.  The damn head gasket went so many times it qualified as a lemon.  So they then got a Toyota.  It ran great for 80,000 miles and about 7 years.  Then one day the transmission dropped out of the thing.  One of the front axles literally left the transmission and entered the oil pan; I shit you not on that story.  

My family went to buying all GM cars after that and has been extremely pleased (yes, someone likes GM cars AND has good luck with them.)

To each his own though.

Spoken like someone who has never owned a Camry and drives a Buick that breaks down every 2-weeks.

Camry's are rock-solid, they are as reliable as a vehicle can be made. Period. This is a fact.

Turns out she got the loaded model with auto trans for a hair over $28K out the door.  No sport suspension, no spoiler.

Rivals a Lexus for luxury and rivals many others for driving/handling/etc.

Of course, I have my little go fast mobile...and I have my luxo-cruiser, they are two different vehicles.  I usually buy stuff with a purpose, not a jack-of-all-trades type car.

That's me.