I'm starting to believe that there were no WMD in Iraq at the time of our invasion.  I think that had Saddam had them at his disposal, he would have used them.  He obviously didn't give a shit about his own people and sure as hell would have liked to use them on an invading force.  This is not to say that he didn't have them at one time.  We all know of the horrors the Kurds in the north faced.  

Now, before I get slammed I want to say that I fully supported the overthrow of his government and still do.  We did the right thing, period.  Our government need a selling point and that's what they used. I would have gone for some like "this guys a dick and needs waxed."  Although I would have gone for a reason like that most of the world wouldn't.  My point is, even if there are no WMD I don't really care.  That guy needed plugged in '91 and we didn't get him.  This time around it's a different story.    

What are your thoughts?

DG84

Dude....not to change the subject..(well ok maybe so)

you need to change your avitar, without my glasses on it looks like 2WhiskeyP trying to give ETH a physical.[:D]



Sadam was a WMD...

We'll never know until we get to Syria or unearth the entire Iraqi desert.

As my mother once said, "even if they don't find a single nuclear, chemical or biological weapon in Iraq this war was right. Saddam killed and had killed 100s of thousands of people, that alone makes him a WMD and that is justification enough."

Oh and by the way my mom leans left in her politics, though she has no problems with guns so I have no problems with her politics.

[LOLabove]

No, don't change the avatar - it's great! [beer]


Exactly.

My friend, you are correct.

-HS

I know they had and were developing other proscribed weapons.  The evidence of these will not be presented in the media unless you know what to look for.

Consider the following.
[url]http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraqi_mobile_plants/[/url]

The "rest of the world" heard an anonymous report splattered with alphabet soup of government acronyms that "dispelled" the rumor these were for biological weapons. Included in these agencies were the Defense Intelligence Agency. What you didn't hear was the following:



Now what the hell was sodium azide doing in those tanks???  This is INCREDIBLY toxic but more damning, it is a chemical used to inhibit bacterial growth, like inhibiting bacterial growth in biotoxins.  It is NOT used for any hydrogen gas generating facility.  

Now, what more proof do you need?  FYI, these trailers would run about 10 million USD to manufacture.  

They're there somewhere.

I fear you're right. Don't forget Iran...

Even so, that would be an internal matter, for the Iraqi people, not a matter for the U.S. to step in on. As about  him killing Iraqi's , they hate the U.S. and resent us being there, so far as I can see from the media, and protests, so about him killing his own people, good riddance to bad trash.

Damn!

Well there is good chance that WMD's are not in Iraq, than again we didn't know about the fighter planes that were buried till we dug them up.

I posted a thread about Iraqi bloggers and the media. Go read it.

Here: [url]http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/494vhvue.asp?pg=1[/url]



When looking for info on Iraq, stop watching CNN, ABC, and CBS and start reading Command-Post and the other internet blogs. Wave of the future.

Before the war the US, every other country, and even the dumbocrats all believed he had WMD's. But the truth was, the only way of knowing for sure was for Saddam to fully cooperate with the U.N. inspectors, which he didn't.

So it very well may turn out that he didn't have them, War was the only way to find out one way or another. Well... I guess we could have sat around and waited to see if, and on who, he used WMD's but I think given those two options war was the better choice.

What, not one of you thong-wearing neolibs cares to debate the issue of the trailers?  Have you all been poisoned by the liberal media into thinking these were for hydrogen generation?

Are you expecting to find a cache of 155mm rounds, filled and fused even though the Iraqi chemical industry had problems with the stability of most of their nerve agents?

And unmixed binary agents were found.  Since they were unmixed, they didn't fit the rigorous definition of chemical weapons but were still on the UN short list. Oh, yes, the media reported these to be "agricultural chemicals"...right.  The EXACT SAME process used to make Malithion can also make Sarin.

Come on in and debate.

Thanks spade, I will look at this in the future.

NP.

There was Pakistani guy on Hannity & Colmes last night..his name is Monsour something-or-other..anyway, his "people" who are in Iraq found a man who is willing to tell our leaders where the location of wmd's are. The catch (was) that he wanted to make sure Saddam was gone AND the U.S. could provide safe passage out of the country. His proof? His wife and son were infected by the wmd's becuase of their exposure to them...they have a cancer now that can only come from a certain type of bio-weapon.

Anyway..Mr. Monsour said, now that Saddam is gone, the guy is spilling the details supposedly. He would not doubt that within the next 30 days, the U.S. would corroborate and find the wmd's...Just in time for the State of the Union.

I believe him.

Hey now.....whatcha trying to say R-32, that dude giving the exam has no hair![BD]

It never made a difference to me one way or another.

The issue isn't the presence of WMDs (which he had, and used), but the existence of WMD production programs which there is lots of evidence confirming.

Once the program is in place, going to production would have been very fast and easy.

He was too have gotten rid of all the WMD, and programs, in late 1991. He didn't.

I heard this dumb cunt say, on the Glenn Beck show , that it is all big oil and that really isn't Saddam and we invaded Iraq with no just cause BlAH BLA BLAH........ I so hat the left wing assholes !!!!!

Saddam will tell us the disposition of his WMDs.  It is only a question of when he will tell us.

If he didn't have WMDs how did all those Kurds and Iranian soldiers wind up dead?

The question is not did he have them but where they went and who has them now...

Who Really cares if they have them or not?

They were either destroyed ot moved before the invasion started.
The only ones that give a damn about WMD are the liberals, even if they find them, they will call it a plant job by republicans.

I kinda figure, we "know" he had them, pretty close to our cold war enemy. Hell he was "pretty close" to us at one point. Were are they now, Korea, Syria, lets hope they DO find them in Iraq.

I care that they are found so that they don't suddenly turn up in a subway in some American city.

Same with the nuke materials, so someday some cargo container doesn't vaporise in one of our ports, and take everything for several miles around with it.

Errr, Keith:

I can't debate you because:
(1) I don't understand a single word you typed.
(2) I happened to be on your side  

I would like to learn more, though, so can you please lead me to literatures, websites, links, etc that I can read (in plain ENGLISH, please, I am not too bright)and so I can learn a thing or two about this matter?

Thanks!

... I view it as an investment in our country's future

The true WMD in Iraq was Saddam Hussein. He tortured, killed, and oppressed large numbers of people.  Seems to me that satisfies the definition of a WMD.

The best site for education on UN prosrcibed weapons programs (WMD's and mfg facilities) is
[url]http://www.fas.org[/url]

There is a great search engine tied to this site.

For a little primer.  Iraq developed their WMD programs incrementally from technology "bits and pieces" but mostly from former Soviet Union technology.  In addition, legitimate technology was imported to produce argiculturally important insecticides, many of which are chemical cousins to nerve agents.  Durasban, Diazonon and Malithion are all insect grade nerve agents.  All of these are legal to manufacture anywhere, even in post GWI Iraq WITH UN INSPECTION.

During the Iran war, the stability of many of their nerve agents was so poor these chemicals arrived on the battlefield in an ineffective condition.  All nerve agents deteriorate over time.  These Iraqi agents had a shelf life of DAYS, not months or years.  After the Iraq war, the corrective action for this limitation was a two-pronged approach.  One was qaulity improvement. The other was development of binary systems whose components were mixed immediately before use and the precursors were much more stable than the product.

Both of these approaches were not openly possible in the presence of UN inspectors after GWI.  The solution was to create dual use facilities and mobile plants.  The limitation of this was "tip off" of the upcoming inspections were required to hide/change/destroy any evidence of banned activity.  And this is EXACTLY what happened up to October of 1998 when the inspectors were forced to leave under suspicion of US espionage. The sites to be inspected were determined at the UN headquarters of the UN, then transmitted under dioplomatic pouch to the inspectors in Iraq.  This worked well until 1996 when a leak in the UN was suspected.  The security of the office where the insepction list was held had been compromised and the response was to create a "red herring" list.  This list contained  sites other than that which were suspected of these dual use capacity.  Eventually this list was extended to three layers deep because SOMEONE tipped them off.

I apoligize if this is long.  The UN documents are even longer...yet a 10 second blurb on the news of "No WMD have been found" is sufficient for establishment of fact.  Crying shame.  Remember, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE.

Hopefully, we'll find them soon. My Democrat buddies are giving me hell about the reason Bush defied the rest of the world to invade Iraq.

I would be great if they found them soon...


Wouldn't it be great to see all this blow up in the face of the liberals.  And to have it start out with the capture of Saddam would be priceless.