www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2288681

Dec. 12, 2003, 5:03AM Shop with a shield Common sense and safety measures can ward off thieves, trouble By MARY VUONG Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle When James Applebe drives home from work late at night, he doesn't stop to retrieve his belongings from the trunk. He just dashes to his gated apartment complex. It's a new practice he's adopted since being robbed earlier this year. A man approached him from behind and asked for a cigarette. When Applebe turned around, he found a gun pointed at him. "If I would've gone straight in the house, it never would've happened," said Applebe, 27, a mechanical engineering student who lives between Montrose and downtown Houston. Now "I just try to be a little more careful and look around a little more closely." That includes carrying as little cash as possible, difficult because of his job as a waiter. Houston Police Department Officer Alvin Steelman urges everyone to practice this vigilance, especially during the holiday season as mall crowds swell and shoppers are distracted by gift-buying duties. "Don't think because there's people there (that) you don't have to keep your guard up," said Steelman, a veteran of the HPD Community Services Division. "Some robberies take place right in the middle of a crowded area." Added Brian Schroeder, marketing manager of Memorial City Mall: "It's the things you do day-to-day that you need to do during the holiday season." So combine common sense and the following tips for a safe shopping season: ·Take a buddy. Most victims of assault or robbery are by themselves, Steelman said. ·If your time's flexible, start early enough to finish before dark. ·From the moment you park, pay attention to your surroundings. Pick well-lighted, visible areas, preferably with security nearby. If you're planning to leave after dark, make sure there are lights in the vicinity. Know where the main entrances and emergency phones are in malls and garages. Avoid secluded restrooms. ·Keep your belongings close to you. Carry wallets in front pockets and tuck purses securely under the arm. ·Use checks and credit or debit cards to pay for purchases. "Don't carry cash unless you absolutely have to," Steelman said. ·Don't become a victim of identify theft, which claimed 10 million people last year. Pack as little personal information as you can and use your body as a shield when entering pin codes, which should be memorized. Don't leave bank or identification cards lying on the counter, and take receipts with you. For more information, contact the Federal Trade Commission at 877-IDTHEFT or www.consumer.gov/idtheft or the Insurance Information Institute at www.iii.org. ·There's no reason anyone should ever need your Social Security number for a purchase unless you're submitting a credit application, Steelman said. "If you do that, use the same cautionary practices. If you mess up a form, take it with you. Don't throw it into the trash." ·Many centers, including the Galleria in Houston and Memorial City Mall, provide a security officer to escort you to your car. Don't hesitate to request one, especially after dusk. At Memorial City, escorts also help carry packages, a perk that's particularly valuable when you're overloaded with bags, Schroeder said. Better yet, don't buy more than you can manage, and keep expensive items closest to you. ·Have your keys ready before you reach your vehicle. Check the car before entering and immediately lock the doors after you're in. If you're planning a return trip to the stores, hide your packages from plain sight and change parking spots. ·Don't forget to exercise caution on the Internet as well. The FTC advises using a secure browser and sticking with reputable merchants. Read security and privacy policies. Pay by credit or charge card to shield your transaction under the Fair Credit Billing Act, which offers some protection for unauthorized charges. Maintain records. "The best tip I can give someone is just be careful with what information they can give out," Steelman said.

If you were Applebee, and found yourself facing the muzzle of a robber's gun, and you had your CCW - would you give him the money and hope he doesn't shoot you anyway, or take your chances, and draw your CCW?

Draw.

GAVE WALLET .. THOR AS A DISTRACTION.. THEN WHEN HE GOES TO PICK UP.. THEN i DRAW..
< OPPS ALl caps>


but thats just talking out of my ass cause I havent been there..

[img]http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.johnson13/pustrana.gif[/img]

I think you would have a hard time outdrawing somebody who already has a gun pointed at you.

Decisions decisions...
left side, or right side?
[img]http://www.andrewsleather.com./juan_b.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.andrewsleather.com./juan_a.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.andrewsleather.com./firepower.jpg[/img]

Don't need to outdraw them.  Just need to have better training.  I think I do...
Scott

I am sure you do have better training.  I am sure most people here do.  I like what somebody said about throwing the wallet and then drawing when the BG is distracted.

BTW, this is the neighborhood where I currently reside.

This is a clear case of justifiable use of lethal force with a CCW if I ever saw one. The main thing is to survive whatever decision you make.

Throw your wallet on the ground, scream like a looney & run the other way. What is the BG gonna do? Shoot some loon running away & making a ruckus or pick up the wallet and leave. (circle around a  be waiting for him as he casually tries to walk away)

Act scared (maybe I wouldn't be acting), turn gun side away, telling BG I'm getting my wallet, reach, produce ccw, light him up.

is it too late to be added to the ar15.com xmas xchange?


pls  pretty pls... !!!!!!!!!!


if I  do get on the list..  and you happen to pick me.. this is what I want !!!!!!
< the whole sha-bang.. not just the harness> [:D]

Believe it or not, as long as the gun isn't right in your face, you've got a very good chance of escaping if you just take off running, and zig-zag.

We did this exercise with Simunitions, and most of the time the BG couldn't hit the runner, even though the two were standing right next to each other when the whistle blew, the runner took off, and the BG started shooting.

Actually, that's wrong.  There is a HUGE lag time (I call it the OH, SHIT!!! factor) when you do something to throw them off track.  They EXPECT you to cooperate, and when you don't, you often have a .5 to 1 second's worth of [shock] that has, many times, been enough time to shoot the idiot.  

I'd draw and shoot.

so some of the time they shot you right?
what percent is "most"
55 out of 100?
80 out of 100?

Boyd's Law in action (OODA loop for everyone else).

Action always beats reaction.

The bad guy is waving his magic wand, fully expecting the magic wand to have it's effect/

The last thing he is expecting is to have a sub 1 second draw and three placed shots.

Boyd's Law fellas.

[b]IF[/b] Applebee had been paying attention this man would not have gotten so close to him to begin with.

How close you do allow a strange to you?

a vagrant? a moocher at the traffic light?

[b]Nobody can state "un-equivocally" what is the "correct" thing to do in a situation like this, (which is why there's no reason to ask these questions). You will do what you have trained to do.[/b]

If you are the type of person who exits a vehicle, with your mind on collecting your crap outta the front, back or trunk. And don't "observe" what's going on around you, then what happens happens and I'd advise you do what the man with the gun tells ya to do.

If on the other hand, your a person who is "observant" and one who doesn't allow the un-authorized approach of strangers, and you are in the habit of being verbal with strangers and state something like "Who the hell are you?, What do you want? or that's close enough!" Then your reaction to this unwarranted approach will have already placed you into action, allowing differing choices to be available to you.

They may be mad or taken a-back, "when", in the course of my day, I stop at a red light (on my scoot) and notice a "moocher" advancing in my direction only to be greeted with "Stop Right There, I don't want what ya got, ain't got nuthin for you, so [b]STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME[/b]!" But I have yet to have been treated worse than being "cursed at" which I am more than happy to smile at and respond with "have a nice day." [b]And they have not violated my space.[/b]

Most criminals are cowards, it takes far more courage to resist or train for trouble than it does to commit it.

YMMV,
Mike

PS - for what it's worth I was brought up believing that allowing a crime to be commited in your presents or to you, merely encouraged the criminal to do it again to someone else. In olden times they'd have charged ya for giving him your wallet. I think it's best to "pay attention" giving ya more choices up front, but would not hesitate to comply, cower or do most anything to pacify the assailant, right up to the point where I shot the bastard, which makes certain nobody else will be harmed, robbed or otherwise molested by this particular perpetrator.  

For all of you internet tough-guys, how many times have you actually been in that situation?
Bear in mind, you do something to startle someone with their finger on the trigger of a gun, and their response may just be to tighten their grip.

As for that running and zig-zagging nonsense, the only person I know that tried that got shot something like 5 times.  Fortunately for him it was "only" a .22, and each round "zig-zagged" through his body doing even more damage.

[img]http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/8490.jpg[/img]


[wave]

Lost a good friend in an incident just like this.

On his way over to bar where we drank, he stopped at a self-carwash to rinse the pick-up he was to sell the next morning. In vacuming the interior, after he was done w/ the washing, a perp walked up from behind him, pulled a saw'd-off 12ga and robbed him at gunpoint. As the girlfriend was on the opposite side of the truck, just standing, my friend figured the best course of action was to give up his wallet, he did, the perp turned and walked away.

When perp turned to walk away, the girlfriend grabbed her purse from the passenger side of PU and ran around front of truck toward the perp, with a pip-sqeak 25 auto in her hand. My friend hollered "NO", too loudly as he wrested the pistol from her, only to turn and see the perp had turned also to view the commotion.

Even though James tossed the pistol down and raised his hands the perp shot him dead, right there and the girlfriend ran off down the street, took the cops 2 hours to find her. Her actions caused his death, there ain't no second chances in situations like this, don't make the wrong choice.

Mike

Isn't this just sad?  People aren't supposed to worry about their own defense 'in this day and age', so they task themselves with running and zig zagging in an effort not to get robbed or shot.  Then they barricade themselves in their house while telling themselves how good modern enlightened society is.
I guess it is more emotionally fulfilling than the figuring out how to fight back, or mount any kind of active defense.

[wave]

His actions caused his own death.

Had he let his girlfriend go after the bad guy he would have had plenty of time to get away - just like his girlfriend did.