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Posted: 11/24/2003 6:45:24 AM EDT
[#1]
CMP Garand?
1. No need for accessories, except for ammo and clips 2. check 3. check, sorta, maybe you can get one with a C&R, I dunno. 4. check 5. recoil isn't all that bad. |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 6:45:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: 5)Would like it to have reasonable recoil, no M-44 Mosins or Enfield No5 Jungle carbines thank you. These are not heavy recoiling rifles. True, your shoulder will feel bruised after 50 or so rounds, but if these are punishing you, you are holding the rifle incorrectly. The heaviest recoiling milsurps are the M95 Steyr and the Berthier carbines, but even these don't approach the recoil levels of a heavy caliber sporting rifle. Don't let the non-recoil of a .223 make you think that everything else is heavy. To answer your question, buy a SAR1 (7.62*39)... |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 9:04:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Oh, I know what heavy is, while I worked at McMillian Arms in the late 80's I got to shoot the heck out of the M-88's we were making for the SEAL's. That big 50 kicks a bit after a few hundred rounds,LOL. As for the SAR, I just swaped off one for a '63 Sharps paper ctg. .54cal rifle and the SAR's aren't C&R so I'd really rather pass on it. I did think about picking up a M-94 Winchester comemorative like the Canadian Centenal or similar. It would be C&R, the 30/30 is a good woods deer ctg. and even though it's not a semi-auto it can be fired fast if needed. So far the SKS looks like the only option. I've owned about 8 of them over the last 20 years, looks like I'll be going back to one unless someone can come up with something. Also, I did think about a Swiss K-31 but ammo cost too much, I'd like something that I could pick up a thousand rounds for and not have to spend much over $150. Keep thinking and I'll look for more suggestions in a bit. Thanks.
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Posted: 11/24/2003 9:20:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: CMP Garand? 1. No need for accessories, except for ammo and clips 2. check 3. check, sorta, maybe you can get one with a C&R, I dunno. 4. check 5. recoil isn't all that bad. I agree. |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 9:47:22 AM EDT
[#5]
An M1 Garand would be sweet BUT, there is no CMP afilliated clubs in my area and I don't have a "millitary style" rifle to shoot my qualifing target with. They do still make you shoot a target to qualify for the CPM rifle , right? Looks like I'll be shopping for an SKS unless someone here can come up with something else.
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Posted: 11/24/2003 10:08:00 AM EDT
[#6]
1 vote for a SAR-1.
Gotta love 75 round drums and cheap 30 round mags [:)] If not this, SKS would be fine too. |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#7]
i don't think the the yugoslavian 59/66 siminov is c&r elgible.
the russian siminov (sks-45) is c&r elgible. perhaps a tokarev 38/40? |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 10:12:42 AM EDT
[#8]
An SKS is more of a plinker. Forget the MAS. Why not buy a modern rifle? Especially since you want to use it for hunting deer. If your local dealer is a prick, find a pawn shop that will handle a transfer for a reasonable fee like $20. I'm an FL dealer and I'll gladly make you a good price on anything that you want and ship it to a FFL of your choice.
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Posted: 11/24/2003 10:14:06 AM EDT
[#9]
I think SKS is how I'm going to have to go. I've still got around 400 rnds. left over from the SAR-1 that I had, all I'd have to get is stripper clips and a chest pouch. I was really hoping that there was something that I didn't know about on the market that I could buy other then an SKS. If I get another one it'll make number 9. Of course if I get the SKS I'd have enough left over to pick up something like a Yugo M-48 or a K-31 and put a few rounds back to play with. Also, it's not so much my local dealer it's the TBI. I get a hassel from them everytime I buy a "new" gun. My file shows where "civil rights have been restored" and that confusses the hell out of them. The have to send it to legal and then a week later I can pick up my gun after they've figured out everything. Also, I'd like to use my C&R, I've only bought 2 guns on it so far and would like to take advantage of having it. The Yugo 59/66's are C&R elegible, it's the "special" one's that have had the gernade lancher removed for Calif. use that are not C&R. Talk to ya'll later.
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Posted: 11/24/2003 10:23:07 AM EDT
[#10]
i thought c&r guns had to be 50 years old? was an exception made for the yugo sks (which was adopted in 1959/reworked in 1966)?
Department of the Treasury Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Washington, DC 20226 F:SD:FTB:FTB 3311 Mr. Rxxxxx Cxxxx Address, City and State redacted Dear Mr. Cxxxx This in response to your letter of November 17, 1997, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), in which you inquire as to whether firearms which were actually manufactured more than 50 years prior to the current date are automatically considered to be classified as curios or relics. As set out in Title 27 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 178, S178.11, the term ''curio or relic includes certain firearms or ammunition which are of special interest to collectors by way reason of some quality other than is ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recocnized as curios or relics, firearms must: (1) Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, [b]but not including replicas thereof;[/b] or (2) Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or (3) Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare or bizarre, or are from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period or event. ATF has previously determined that any firearm which was actually manufactured more than 50 years prior to the current date, automatically qualifies as a curio or relic and it is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in the ATF Firearms Curio & Relic List for it to be included. You are encouraged to contact ATF for confirmation that a firearm qualifies as a curio or relic. We have frequently encountered instances in which individuals have incorrectly dated a firearm due to misidentification of the firearm, erroneous reference material, or for various other reasons. It would be unlawful for a licensed collector to received {cqt} or transfer a firearm in interstate commerce as a curio or relic if it did not meet the definition in the cited section. We trust that the foregoing has been responsiveto your inquiry. If we may be of any further assistance, please contact us. Sincerely yours, Edward M. Owen, Jr. Chief, Firearms Technology Branch |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 10:28:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Yes, because it's 'collectible" and has been certified by a museum. The 50 year old rule doesn't always apply. The Polish TT-33 that SOG is selling are made in the early 50's making most of them 50+ years old but there not C&R . The CZ-52, made during the 50's is, go figure. Also, I can buy a new S&W, Colt or Winchester "cormemorative" gun and it'll be C&R but the same type of gun that's regular production isn't . There is even a factory nickeled UZI that's C&R but I'd bet it would cost a butt load of money if you found one. The C&R list is a funny list to read. Some guns are new(or near new) and are C&R others are older but aren't. I don't make the C&R rules, just have to follow em' no matter how silly they are.
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Posted: 11/24/2003 11:02:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Do you have to be 21 to get a C&R?
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Posted: 11/24/2003 11:04:22 AM EDT
[#13]
yep, you can even get a few AR's on your C&R, like the vietnam commerative from colt.........
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Posted: 11/24/2003 11:05:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Do you have to be 21 to get a C&R? yep |
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Posted: 11/24/2003 11:07:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Another little known fact is that not all machine guns have to be bought thru a Class lll dealer. There is a whole list of machine guns(Thompson, PPSH-41, Bren light machine gun, et al.) that can be purchased with a C&R lic. You still have to pay the $200 tax and fill out Form 4 but once you're approved it can be shipped to your door, no Class lll dealer to worry about. Heck, I may break down one day and buy a Thompson or PPSH-41 if I can come up with the money. That would be a hoot, have a machine gun shipped to my door, bet that would piss off a butt load of anti-gun types,LOL. Anyway, if ya' don't have a C&R and you've got an extra $35 bucks you can live without it's well worth sending off for one. The form you fill out is about the same as a 4473, just as easy, and you can have all kind of firearms shipped right to your door and save a bunch of money.
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