Our POS governeor vetoed concealed carry today. He said it would endanger the lives of police officers. .

Now the real fight starts.

Well, if MO can override a veto, ya'll can too.

Best of luck to you.

Of course, after it gets overridden, you can plan on it being tied up in court for months.

how are things looking for the override?

Quoted: Our POS governeor vetoed concealed carry today. He said it would endanger the lives of police officers. . Now the real fight starts.

Gee the LEOs I was talking to and hanging out with all weekend all seem to disagree with the gov. And I'm sure they would know more about what is or is not a danger to them. Fuck Doyle, at least he just assured himself of being a 1 term gov.

Quoted: how are things looking for the override?

Close very close, if it does or does not get overridden will be maybe by a vote or two in the assembly

I'm sure sorry for you WI guys & gals.  That sucks.

Good luck man!

Quoted: "it would endanger the lives of police officers". . Now the real fight starts.

I've always been amused by that comment. Don't the bad guys have guns in the first place, so the risk is still there?

We're suffering the same thing with our spinless Governor Taft. And it's guaranteed in the Ohio costitution.

[sarcasm on] oh yeah.  that is why law abiding citizens don't go around shootin LE - because they can't carry concealed guns [sarcasm off]  Amazing!

Quoted: Quoted: "it would endanger the lives of police officers". . Now the real fight starts. I've always been amused by that comment. Don't the bad guys have guns in the first place, so the risk is still there? We're suffering the same thing with our spinless Governor Taft. And it's guaranteed in the Ohio costitution.

The WSSC did kinda leave us a hole, if we get busted we have to prove that we were carrying for security, defence or "any other lawful purpose" as written in the state RKBA amendment. So basicly if yer not dealing drugs like the ass who got busted and who's apeal lead to the ruling, or ccw with intent to commit a crime and the such, you should be able to beat the charge. It was cuz of the fucker CCW while dealing that the court told the legislature you need to fix this by passing a bill. It wouldhave just been better had they ruled that as long as no laws were bing broken, or there was no intent to commit a crime while ccw that it was ok. as was they fucked us. And now were getting it again. We will win this we will get the override, but if we don't just wait till the next election!

Press Releases

For Immediate Release
Tuesday, November 18, 2003

Jessica Erickson, Governor’s Office, 608-261-2156

Governor Doyle Announces Veto of Concealed Carry Bill

Flanked by sheriffs, deputies, police chiefs, police officers, troopers and other law enforcement officers, Governor Jim Doyle announced today that he has vetoed SB 214, legislation that would allow concealed weapons into almost all public places and would weaken restrictions against guns on school grounds and in school zones.

“This bill doesn’t create a single job, doesn’t help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, and doesn’t improve schools for a single Wisconsin child,” Governor Doyle said. “It’s time for the Legislature to get back to the serious work of solving problems that face Wisconsin families, instead of catering to the wishes of extremist special interest groups.”

“That is why earlier today I took my veto pen, and used it to stand with law enforcement to keep lethal weapons away from our schools, businesses, and communities,” Doyle said.

A wide range of law enforcement groups oppose the legislation, including:

-- The Badger State Sheriff’s Association
-- The Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association
-- The Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association
-- The Wisconsin District Attorneys Association
-- The Wisconsin County Police Association
-- The Association of State Prosecutors
-- The Wisconsin Troopers’ Association

Additionally, out of 72 sheriffs in Wisconsin, just three are on record supporting a concealed hand gun law. And at least 65 sheriffs have vowed to “opt out” of the bill.

The Governor noted that the bill passed by the Legislature would allow concealed weapons into crowded shopping malls during the holidays, public libraries, public buildings, Boys and Girls Clubs, banks, universities, movie theaters, concert venues like Alpine Valley, Summerfest, parades, parking lots, farmers markets, and the State Fair.

“Even after the tragedy at Columbine, this bill would weaken restrictions against carrying lethal weapons on school grounds,” said Governor Doyle. “I think we all agree that Wisconsin’s schools need more textbooks and more teachers - but one thing they sure don’t need is more guns.”

The Governor noted that, under SB 214, the only way that a businessowner can legally prevent people from walking into a store with a concealed weapon is to physically approach the person and tell them to leave, a provision that hurts businesses and puts employees at risk.

The bill also carves out an exception to Wisconsin’s open records law that would keep information about concealed weapons secret from the public, and would also limit access to the information by law enforcement.

“Under this bill, hunting and fishing licenses would be public information, but permits to carry lethal weapons into shopping malls would be kept secret,” Governor Doyle said. “And it’s even more absurd that the bill limits access to information by the police. Before approaching a car on a routine traffic stop, officers will have access to a person’s driving record, but not whether that person has a concealed weapon. It’s just wrong to put our officers in danger like that.”

The Governor noted that the bill will bury our sheriffs departments in a mountain of paperwork, create a huge unfunded mandate, and cost local governments more than $3.7 million. According to the Department of Justice, 35,000 people would apply for a permit in the first year. “That’s 35,000 forms to process, 35,000 background checks to conduct, and 35,000 applicants to keep track of - leaving less time and fewer resources for the really important work of preventing, investigating, and prosecuting crimes,” the Governor said.

Now that the bill has been vetoed, the Governor urged legislators in both parties to get back to work on his job creation agenda. “I’m calling on the Legislature - Republicans and Democrats - to work with me to address the real issues in our state. It’s time for us to get back to work, so our citizens can get back to work too,” the Governor concluded.

You guys could get a recall movement underway, that will make him the 2nd sitting governor to be recalled in 82 years.

We've recalled people for less in this state like making us have to pay a tax to support the building of a stadium for the perenial seller dwelling milwaukee brewers. And one that was not sate wide but only effected 5 counties. Damn it I'm a cubs fan why the hell should I support a privetly owned team in this state!


Ok but back on topic. I really don't think that his veto of this bill is worth a re-call, however all the selling out he has done to the likes of the teachers union and such should be as it's costing us. Sure not in tax increases but in fee increases at the DMV and such. He panders to his favorite special intrest groups and the rest of us are just extremists. Like I said before he has assured himself of one term as gov.

He just kissed goodbye what little future in government he had.



recalldoyle.org
recalldoyle.com
www.thewheelerreport.com/releases/Nov03/Nov10/1110recalldoylesign.PDF

STATE OF WISCONSIN JIM DOYLE GOVERNOR <snip> “This bill doesn’t create a single job, doesn’t help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, and doesn’t improve schools for a single Wisconsin child,” Governor Doyle said. “It’s time for the Legislature to get back to the serious work of solving problems that face Wisconsin families, instead of catering to the wishes of extremist special interest groups.” <snip> • Governor’s Veto Message - 30 -

www.wispolitics.com/1006/11.18.03___Concealed_Carry_Veto.pdf

Funny, but I've never thought of myself as part of an "extremist special interest group" before.  

More praise for Doyle's "courageous" veto can be found here:  www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Content=21

EDITED to remove part of the majority of the quote that also appears in another post to this thread.

Not unexpected.

Now it's time to show him that Madison does NOT run the state.

Dig in- it's time to FIGHT.

Mike

Quoted: Not unexpected. Now it's time to show him that Madison does NOT run the state. Dig in- it's time to FIGHT. Mike

Can we do it from rooftops?

Can you folks recall the Governor as they did in California? Not all States have that provision in their laws. I really hope you guys do. We must fight the Liberal Lie Machine on all fronts.
I know there is a groundswell of people in Arizona who want our Lesbian ,Bull-Dyke Bitch of a Governor gone ... LONG GONE !!!!! They are getting gunned up to begin the recall but Maricopa County (Phoenix metro area) is going damn Liberal. So ,it;ll be tough going but MUST BE DONE!!!

Quoted: Gee the LEOs I was talking to and hanging out with all weekend all seem to disagree with the gov. And I'm sure they would know more about what is or is not a danger to them. Fuck Doyle, at least he just assured himself of being a 1 term gov.

You guys elected a guy named "Doyle" governor?  Well, that was your first mistake.

Quoted: Governor Doyle Announces Veto of Concealed Carry Bill Flanked by sheriffs, deputies, police chiefs, police officers, troopers and other law enforcement officers, Governor Jim Doyle announced today that he has vetoed SB 214, legislation that would allow concealed weapons into almost all public places and would weaken restrictions against guns on school grounds and in school zones. A wide range of law enforcement groups oppose the legislation, including: -- The Badger State Sheriff’s Association -- The Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association -- The Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association -- The Wisconsin District Attorneys Association -- The Wisconsin County Police Association -- The Association of State Prosecutors -- The Wisconsin Troopers’ Association Additionally, out of 72 sheriffs in Wisconsin, just three are on record supporting a concealed hand gun law. And at least 65 sheriffs have vowed to “opt out” of the bill.

Not to worry, I've heard that the police will "do the right thing when it really matters".

God knows when that will be!

From  Dick Baker   Sent  Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:17 pm To  misc email alert list   Subject  WCCA alert: Doyle vetoes concealed carry bill As expected, Governor Doyle today vetoed SB214, the Personal Protection Act concealed carry bill. In two staged events reminiscent of Bill Clinton, he surrounded himself with sheriffs and police chiefs as he claimed that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons would be dangerous for Wisconsin. Absent from his speech was a statement saying he thought Wisconsinites are stupid, unstable and untrustworthy, which is what he must believe, since permit holders in 45 other states haven't shown themselves to be a problem. Our next step is a veto override session in the senate, which will happen in just a few weeks. The bill passed the senate on October 24th by a margin of 24 to 8 votes. We need 22 to override Doyle's veto, which means that we need to keep at least four of the six Democrat senators who voted for the bill on our side. We need to put pressure on them to make sure that they don't fall prey to Doyle's arm-twisting. Those six Democrat senators, their districts, and their phone numbers are: SENATOR ROGER BRESKE, from Vilas, Oneida, Lincoln, Langlade, Menominee, Florence, Marinette, Forest counties (800)-334-8773 SENATOR ROBERT WIRCH, from Kenosha county (888)-769-4724 SENATOR JULIE LASSA, from Wood, Portage, Adams counties (608)-266-3123 SENATOR RUSS DECKER, from Price, Rusk, Taylor, Marathon counties (608)-266-2502   SENATOR MARK MEYER, from La Crosse, Trempeleau, Vernon, Crawford, Jackson counties (608)-266-5490 SENATOR JEFF PLALE, from southern Milwaukee county (608)-266-7505 Of course, we need to continue to pressure our representatives as well. To find out who your representatives in the assembly are, go to http://www.legis.state.wi.us/waml and enter your address. Your friends who don't have internet access can call 1-800-362-9472 and they'll be transferred to their representative's office. We're nearing the end of a fight that began ten years ago. With the continued phone calls and letters to legislators from you and your friends, we can win. Thanks, The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association

bummer dudes.....

good luck on the override

Whew!

Just whipped out 3 veto override letters to Plale for friends/co-workers to send and one to Breske for my Dad.

(tho Breske is a bill co-author and already stated that he will support the override - he has REALLY come around!)

I just don't know what to say to my Senator, Gwen Moore...  Maybe I'll tell her there's a fire sale going on the first couple weeks of December down at the local "Fat & Stupid" store.



Edited to add:  See the irony of that is, even though she is so fat & stupid, that she'd still go to a sale at "Fat & Stupid".  Ya know, because everything was on sale, it would be stupid not to buy more fat & stupid.  It'd be just like making money!  Snap!

(she has admitted for the record afterall to be the most intelligent member in the senate!)

I don't know if it possible to recall a gov in WI, but for us in Cali-fornia, it was something like a 3 year effort to get rid of Gray(out) Davis. I personally gather many, many signatures the first around.

I'm all for getting the motherfucker recalled - but it would require a lot more work than what you guys did in Cali - we'd need 25% - or 450K signatures.

Brave people are trying tho - God bless 'em:

www.channel3000.com/politics/2541547/detail.html

From our good friend, Dave Zien:
November 18, 2003

ZIEN: DOYLE'S VETO PROTECTS CRIMINALS

Madison... Today Governor Tim Doyle (D-Madison) vetoed a bill that would have allowed law-abiding Wisconsin citizens a better chance to survive a violent attack.  The Personal Protection Act would allow Wisconsin citizens the ability to carry a concealed weapon for personal protection, a right afforded the citizens of 45 other states.

Senator Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), author of the Personal Protection Act, expressed his sorrow for the roughly 12,000 victims of violent crime annually in Wisconsin who never had a chance to defend themselves because of a 130-year old ban on carrying concealed weapons.  "Today the Governor ensured that violent criminals may continue their work without fear of their victims being able to defend themselves," said Zien.

The debate on concealed carry in Wisconsin has come down to law-abiding citizens with common sense who deserve the right of self-defense versus the Governor and certain law enforcement officials who want to maintain a disarmed citizenry.  As most victims of violent crime know,  law enforcement officers cannot always be there to protect you.

"FBI crime statistics in year 2000 show that there were 12,701 reported victims of violent crime in Wisconsin.  Apparently Governor Doyle thinks that is an acceptable level of victims," said Zien.

Many courts have ruled that law enforcement has no obligation whatsoever to protect the individual citizen, just society as a whole.  Yet, you are banned by the State from protecting yourself with the most effective means of self-defense.  "So, on the one hand, government is saying it is not responsible to protect you, while on the other saying you don't have any right to protect yourself.  What a concept.  Who, then, is responsible for protecting your life?" said Zien.

The experiences of 45 other states show that there is absolutely no reason for law enforcement personnel or other law-abiding citizens to fear permit holders.  No state has ever repealed its concealed carry law.  This is a great testament to the responsibility shown by permit holders to not become part of the "blood in the streets" doomsday predictions that opponents often cry, but never come to fruition.

In most other states that have gone through the process of passing a concealed weapons law, groups representing elected law enforcement officials such as Sheriffs and Police Chiefs have opposed the idea of regular people lawfully carrying guns for self-defense.  But many ranking law enforcement officials who opposed right-to-carry bills through the legislative process became supporters after a positive experience with the law.

Tarrant County, Texas Sheriff David Williams told the Fort Worth Star Telegram on 7/17/96 (after passage of Texas' right-to-carry law on 1/1/96) "As we have seen in other states and had predicted would occur in Texas, all the fears of the naysayers have not come to fruition.  A lot of the critics argued that the law-abiding citizens couldn't be trusted... But the facts do speak for themselves.  None of these horror stories have materialized."

Senior Corporal Glen White, President of the Dallas Police Association, lobbied against Texas' right to carry laws in multiple sessions of the legislature.  He said this to the Dallas Morning News almost 2 years after the law was enacted: "All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen... No boogie man.  I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits.  I'm a convert."

North Carolina passed its right-to-carry law in January of 1995. Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Dennis Nowicki had this to say to The News & Observer nearly 3 year later: "The concerns that I had - with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons - we haven't experienced that."

In the 37 states with "shall issue" permit systems, there has never been an incident involving a license holder shooting at or killing a law enforcement officer.

Wisconsin's Personal Protection Act has the support of major organizations representing rank-and file law enforcement.  The Wisconsin membership of the Fraternal Order of Police and the Law Enforcement Alliance of America, the two largest law enforcement organizations in the country, support allowing Wisconsin citizens to carry concealed weapons.

The Milwaukee Police Association representing approximately 1,700 rank-and-file law enforcement officers supports the Personal Protection Act.  Bradley DeBraska, President of the Milwaukee Police Association, writes in his testimony at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on September 9, 2003 "The good law abiding citizens deserve every opportunity to defend themselves against persons committing heinous crimes."

"The Governor ignored the vote of the people's elected representatives, he ignored the success of 45 other states, he ignored the facts about the bill, and he ignored the 12,000 annual reported victims of violent crime in Wisconsin," said Zien.  Zien noted that the truth about concealed carry in other states and the facts within Senate Bill 214 itself have apparently been elusive to opponents of self-defense.

On November 12, 2003, Zien issued a 9-page memo addressing the concerns of the Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association, which lobbied heavily against the Personal Protection Act based solely on misinformation and misunderstanding of the bill.  "The Sheriffs' organization has shown undaunted hypocrisy in their continued opposition to the bill," said Zien. "To this day, some Sheriffs continue to say, for example, that the background check will take them 8 hours to complete.  Truth is, one phone call to DOJ makes all the necessary information available, and it only takes a minute or two."

Senator Zien said the full Senate will attempt to override Doyle's veto in the upcoming weeks.  The bill passed the Senate on October 23 by a vote of 24-8, and the Assembly on November 8 by a vote of 64-35.  The Senate only needs 22 votes to meet the 2/3 majority necessary to override the Governor's veto.  The Assembly would need 66 votes to override the veto.

Quoted: From our good friend, Dave Zien: November 18, 2003 ZIEN: DOYLE'S VETO PROTECTS CRIMINALS

Unwittingly he does. I'm sure that Doyle thinks he is doing what is right in his own eyes. Unfortunately, this means keeping power in the hands of the State. So much for gov't "of the people, by the people and for the people". Unwittingly, he is also a domestic enemy of this nation and its constitution.

that rat bastard.

Quoted: Can you folks recall the Governor as they did in California? Not all States have that provision in their laws. I really hope you guys do. We must fight the Liberal Lie Machine on all fronts. I know there is a groundswell of people in Arizona who want our Lesbian ,Bull-Dyke Bitch of a Governor gone ... LONG GONE !!!!! They are getting gunned up to begin the recall but Maricopa County (Phoenix metro area) is going damn Liberal. So ,it;ll be tough going but MUST BE DONE!!!

Recalls are a good part a Wisconsin invention...

We can recall any public official... In Milwaukee, we just tossed a good part of the county board because they voted themselves a golden pension deal...

Doyle has managed to piss off everyone but his cronies in government, and the teachers unions.

He gave the Indians a sweetheart deal on gambling rights for life (no coincidence, they gave him a huge campaign donation)...

He vetoed a statewide freeze on property taxes, despite overwhelming (uh, duh) public support...

Now he vetoes CCW...

2 veto overrides have failed, both by 1 vote... We may be in for the same thing, but we won't know 'till next year... The legislature is adjourned...

That statement from Senator Zien (see Dolomite's post on the bottom of p. 1) is an excellent response.

Why is it that these Dumocrats can't accept the facts of concealed carry?

I'm ready to roll like I've never been before.  Dust off the ole' printer, we're going to town!

Quoted:2 veto overrides have failed, both by 1 vote... We may be in for the same thing, but we won't know 'till next year... The legislature is adjourned...

this makes me thing that they're all right in line and picking out one person to take the heat for unpopular decisions.

“Under this bill, hunting and fishing licenses would be public information, but permits to carry lethal weapons into shopping malls would be kept secret,” Governor Doyle said. “And it’s even more absurd that the bill limits access to information by the police. Before approaching a car on a routine traffic stop, officers will have access to a person’s driving record, but not whether that person has a concealed weapon. It’s just wrong to put our officers in danger like that.”

If the guy hates guns,  why doesn't he just say he hates guns.

What is with all of these limp dick excuses he is throwing around???  I mean,  come one,  when was the last time a CCW holder shot a cop when they were pulled over for a traffic violation.  Let's even go further,  when was the last time a ccw holder shot a cop PERIOD???

I hope the citizens of Wisconsin hold this fucker accountable for being such an elitist left wing whacko about this.

this guy has some nice things to say

www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P2378

It's Ball-Kicking Time In Wisconsin    November 19,2003 Kim du Toit   I understand from several Readers up in Wisconsin that their evil suckwad gun-grabbing asswipe oily heap of shit Democrat governor Doyle has, in line with Democrat principle everywhere, vetoed the Wisconsin CCW law. This despite it having been passed by close to two-thirds majorities in both the state Assembly and Senate. Here are the details. I fear for the worst, because I know how this little game is played. The weasel Democrat senators and assemblymen vote in favor of the bill, secure in the knowledge that the scumbag Democrat sonofabitch sitting in the governor's chair is going to veto it. Then, when the bill is sent back for a veto override vote, they'll suddenly "back the governor's constitutional duty" or some such specious bullshit, and change their votes to nay, whereupon the damn bill sinks without a trace. This cannot be allowed to happen. If you're reading this, and you're a voter in Wisconsin, call your local weasel senator and assemblyman immediately, and warn them that their vote will influence your vote in 2004 and beyond. Be polite. Don't call him a fucking Commie bastard, or her a rancid socialist gun-grabbing bitch [whichever applies]. Just remind them that gun owners have long memories, and an act of treachery now will not be forgotten. Go here to find out how to contact your local weasels. Call your assemblyman too -- nothing helps a senator vote on the side of the righteous more, than when he gets panicked phone calls from three or four assemblymen in his district. It's time, long past time, to bring Wisconsin into Red America. This is Step One. Step Two will be to kick this bastard Doyle out at the earliest possible election.

Quoted: Press Releases For Immediate Release Tuesday, November 18, 2003 Jessica Erickson, Governor’s Office, 608-261-2156 Governor Doyle Announces Veto of Concealed Carry Bill “This bill doesn’t create a single job, doesn’t help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, and doesn’t improve schools for a single Wisconsin child,” Governor Doyle said. “It’s time for the Legislature to get back to the serious work of solving problems that face Wisconsin families, instead of catering to the wishes of extremist special interest groups.” The Governor noted that the bill will bury our sheriffs departments in a mountain of paperwork, create a huge unfunded mandate, and cost local governments more than $3.7 million. According to the Department of Justice, 35,000 people would apply for a permit in the first year. “That’s 35,000 forms to process, 35,000 background checks to conduct, and 35,000 applicants to keep track of - leaving less time and fewer resources for the really important work of preventing, investigating, and prosecuting crimes,” the Governor said. Now that the bill has been vetoed, the Governor urged legislators in both parties to get back to work on his job creation agenda. “I’m calling on the Legislature - Republicans and Democrats - to work with me to address the real issues in our state. It’s time for us to get back to work, so our citizens can get back to work too,” the Governor concluded.

I guess performing 35,000 background checks won't create any jobs..  

If he's so concerned about the money, he should ask for a Vermont carry law.

Quoted: If the guy hates guns,  why doesn't he just say he hates guns.

He has. At one point he advocated banning anything except single shot shotguns and rifles, no shit.

He was elected by the cities of Milwaukee and Madison. Virtually no counties of rural WI voted for him. The city folk don't mind his brand of fascism and have no doubt, this man is a fascist in the basest sense. He finds people such as us repugnant and is interested only in holding power. His version of power is the police state which he would like to wield like an iron fist against us.

The reasons though why the cities voted for him is that his election guarantees them a continued opportunity to drain the rural communities dry. Over 1/3 of my property taxes got to Milwaukee and Madison. Further, the tribes pushed his election over the top by giving millions in campaign contributions in return for his cutting them a sweetheart deal on gaming compacts. Corruption in its basest form, once again.

He would've made a great NAZI. Only Jews would not be his enemy. His enemy is freedom and free thought.

After reading all this, I cant believe what I'm readng actually pertains to a state in America. It reads more like something out of Nazi Germany.

Do you have open carry in WI?  If so every mothers son of ya' should strap on your side arm and let em' see why you wanted a CCW.  I think that was part of the reason that they got CCW in AZ., some of the "snow birds" were getting scared at seeing all the people with guns on so they passed a CCW to keep them out of sight.  Good for the snow birds(they don't have to be scared by all the pards packin' heat) good for the gun owners(they can carry without drawing attention to themselves.) .  I'm pissed about this and I don't even live in WI.  

Hooray for Gov. Doyle's Concealed Weapons Veto!