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Posted: 4/24/2018 2:41:38 PM EDT


From April 29 to May 4 in 1992; Los Angeles was ablaze. Rioting and looting was in the streets. Homes and business were burglarized and destroyed by arson. The law abiding and honest people and business owners were mugged and beaten. the LAPD pulled out and told folks they were on their own. But a small section of Los Angeles known as Koreatown didn't burn. (For those that don't know; Koreatown is the most densely populated district by population in Los Angeles County, with some 120,000 residents in 2.7 square miles.)

Why? Because the Korean shop owners banded together and exercised their 2nd Amendment Rights and protected their property, their businesses, and their livelihoods. Here are some of the actual news reports from the riots.

Korean Store Owners Defend Their Property With Firearms During Rodney King Riots


La Riots store owners protect store with guns(Original recording)




They were well armed and defended themselves. Let's take a look at some of the guns they used.


Two Korean Americans take cover behind a forklift during an exchange of gunfire between store owners and looters.

First off we have a GLOCK and what appears to be a stainless 1911. This was back in 1992, so the GLOCK more than likely is the Model 19. The .40 S&W while just introduced; was more popular in the law enforcement market than the civilian market. The G17 and G19 were hugely popular on the civilian market and sold quickly. At this point in time, the Clinton AWB didn't happen yet, so the 17rd and 15rd mags were easy to get.



What appears to be a 1911 actually isn't. It is actually a Colt Double Eagle. They were a 1911 Slide and Barrel on a Double Action frame. Made for a short period of time. They were chambered in 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto. They had a number of issues and were quickly pulled from the market. The most common one made was a stainless .45 ACP 5 model. So this is more than likely that. They used standard 1911 magazines. They were Colt's answer to the Sig Sauer P220 and the S&W Modle 4506/4566 line.


Korean supermarket employee returns fire from drive-by shooters at the corner of Western Avenue and 5th Street while attempting to protect the market from looters.

This gentleman is shooting what appears to be your standard period Colt Model "1991 Commander". It came from factory with G.I Sights and a Ring Hammer. These used the Series 80 safety block and came with a stainless barrel. They were a more affordable option from Colt and were popular back then. Al Pacino famously used one in the L.A. Crime Drama Heat as Lieutenant Vincent Hanna.


Store owner Richard Rhee stands vigil and armed on the roof of his grocery store.

Here you have a blued Colt Government Model .380 and an equally impressive period cellphone. Specifically a black Motorola DynaTAC commonly known as the "Brick". The Government Model .380 was part of Colt's .380 Conceal Carry line back before the .380 Pocket Pistol market took off with the Kel-Tec P3AT and the Ruger LCP. It was the "full-size" .380 pistol. Colt had the smaller single action Mustang and the double action only Pony Pocketlite. When Colt went into financial hardship, production ceased.



Here we have a Korean store employee armed with a Norinco made MAK-90 AK pattern rifle. The fully enclosed front sight hood is the give-away. Norinco Type 56s and MAK-90s had them while your Eastern European and Egyptian made guns had the standard winged sight protector instead. Also there is the George Bush Import Ban compliant thumb-hole stock. And of course is the ever classic "shoot me" safari/photo vest and the period fanny pack which is clipped straight onto his belt loops of his pants.


Armed volunteers take position behind cabbage boxes as they guard California market from approaching looters during the second day riots.





Personal hunting guns were also employed. Traditional box lock Over & Under shotguns and a Remington 700 bolt action. Sure, the O/U ain't "tactical" but it is better than foul words and mean stares. Besides, 00 Buck even from one of those is liable to ruin someone's day. The bolt action rifle is a might useful to provide over-watch.


Korean Security Guard taking cover while his cohorts provide over-watch.

This security guard is armed with the ever classic Wheel Gun. Either a Smith & Wesson K-Frame Service Revolver or a Taurus Clone. I'm leaning towards the Taurus due to the half lug on the barrel and it being a blued finish. The blued S&W K-Frame in .38 Special had an exposed ejector rod like the Model 10 and the only .357 Magnum K-Frame with a half lug like that was the S&W Model 66 which was stainless. Taurus did a K-Frame clone just like the one shown in a blued finish, with a half lug, and came in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum.


Period newspaper photo showing David Joo armed with a TEC-9.

This being the early 90s, the Intratec TEC-9 was an extremely popular (if misguided) pistol. Designed by Swedish George Kellgren (current owner and lead designer of Kel-Tec) in 1985. It was a huge seller and stayed in production even during the Clinton AWB. They went through three designs. First an there was an the KG-9 and KG-99. Which had an open-end upper receiver tube where the bolt, recoil springs, and buffer plate were held in place by the polymer lower receiver frame. This design only allows for 115 grain 9mm ammunition, and if a heavier grain ammunition or hot loads are used, the lower receiver would fail. Then you had the TEC-9, which solved the issues of the KG series and came from factory with a threaded barrel. Then when the Clinton AWB was passed; you had the AB-10. Which was the post ban version.

The gentleman behind Mr. Joo is holding a Remingotn 870 with a Remington LE Overfold Stock.



Here we have Korean American carrying a chrome finished KG-9/KG-99 as the LAFD is attempting to save a building.



And here is another standard TEC-9 being held as someone listens to the news on the radio.


Korean store owners and employees watching from the roof.

The gentleman on the far right is armed with a Ruger Mini-14. Chambered in 5.56x45mm; the Ruger Mini-14 was a very affordbale option back then for a rifle. Colt, Bushmaster, and Olympic Arms all made AR-15s, but prices were closer to $1,000 back then for one. A Mini-14 cost around $250-$300; 20rd and 30rd magazines were easy to get. To the left of him is a unknown shotgun.


A Korean man carries an rifle to prevent looters from entering a grocery store .

Last but not the least, is a Korean American armed with a Daewoo K1. It is actually a South Korean design and built rifle still used to this day by the ROK Army. It is direct impingement like an AR-15 and uses standard AR-15 STANAG pattern magazines. Chambered in 5.56x45mm. Entering service as a replacement for the M3 "Grease Gun" SMG; it was designed with an 11.5 barrel and a small flash hider like the Colt XM-177 Carbines from Vietnam. For the American Civilian Market; Daewoo made it with a 16 barrel where the flash hider was part of it. Sold into the US until George Bush Import Ban; it was sold under two marketing names by the various importers that brought them into the country. They were marketed as the Daewoo K1A1 Rifle and the AR-110C Carbine. They were priced to compete against the Ruger Mini-14  but had the features and quality hat rivaled a Colt SP1 AR-15. They sold very well.



All in all, there was the period pieces that were common back then. AR-15s were just not on the radar yet as the "GO TO" gun. They were pricey and had a number of competitors that beat them. You had the influx of Norinco made AKs which were priced around $250, SKS Carbines going for under $100, Daewoos and Mini-14s directly competing at the same price point, and you common hunting guns. In the handgun side of things. The Revolver was still holding strong. GLOCK was gaining ground while the other Wonder Nines of the era like the Beretta 92, S&W Model 5906, and Sig Sauer P226 were selling like hot cakes. Then of course you had the classic 1911 still holding it's own while being dealt a blow with the US Army adopting the Beretta.

But just like today, you have Americans defending their property and income with the best they could get their hands on. And the common thing shown is that even then, folks knew and understand that when the fecal matter impacts the oscillator. You're on your own and you have to deal with the problem yourself. Because the government sure won't.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:45:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:48:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Awesome post.

I wonder how many of the guns in the gun store photo were lowkey cash and carried thanks to a friendly FFL.

CA had a 14 day waiting period at the time and sales of guns and ammo were suspended statewide during the riots.

ETA: I was never into guns prior to the LA riots. I bought my first (Mossberg 590) the day that sales were restarted. Watching a city that was less then 100 miles from you being looted and burned makes you want to be armed.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:49:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Awesome info!
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:49:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:50:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
View Quote
The Mini-14, O/U, Remington 700, and the pistols if they're on the Approved Roster for sale. The TEC-9, Daewoo, and MAK-90 sure as shit aren't anymore.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:51:27 PM EDT
[#6]
I wonder if they would be criminally charged today for taking action like Open Carrying guns on their businesses.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:52:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Daewoo always makes me laugh.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:52:16 PM EDT
[#8]
The S&W 19 was a blued K-frame with a half underlug.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:52:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
View Quote
The owners probably didn’t register any of them
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:53:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wonder if they would be criminally charged today for taking action like Open Carrying guns on their businesses.
View Quote
PD would be busying themselves disarming and removing residents and business owners ahead of the mobs.

"Space to destroy. It is just stuff, that is what insurance is for" etc.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:54:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Our tac unit spent a week and a half in LA during that mess.

Hard to believe it’s been that long.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:54:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:54:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Every single one of them are cool in my book.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:54:59 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a blued colt double eagle officers model in 45 ACP.

It has a factory defect and was sold for 50 dollars off the screamin deal of 459.99..

The auto decock is nice.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:55:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Some of the video footage shows Korean dudes that look like they probably served in Korean military. I wouldn't want to fuck with any of those guys. Consequently I believe not many did there either.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:55:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:56:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The S&W 19 was a blued K-frame with a half underlug.
View Quote
Could be, but I think that gun is a fixed sight model.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:57:09 PM EDT
[#18]
In the second video the women newscaster asked if their guns were registered.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:57:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The S&W 19 was a blued K-frame with a half underlug.
View Quote
Could be, but I think that gun is a fixed sight model.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 2:57:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Pathetic. Nobody needs to be armed in a civilized society.

Koreans, turn them all in!
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:00:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Excellent post, as always.  Thank you.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:01:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
View Quote
South Central LA just happen to have a Korean neighborhood. Not sure what happened to everyone else who was in the area, white, black and Hispanic.
I remember this black guy yelling at people because his corner store got burned down. It was not a franchise business, he owned it and black rioters burned it down. It was sad. The store was his life, means of income and all. He was in his 50s or 60s. Not sure what happened to him.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:05:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In the second video the women newscaster asked if their guns were registered.
View Quote
I believe the shooting vest guy had come from the gun-store the Jewelry store owner also owned. They were probably off the rack.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:06:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
South Central LA just happen to have a Korean neighborhood. Not sure what happened to everyone else who was in the area, white, black and Hispanic.
I remember this black guy yelling at people because his corner store got burned down. It was not a franchise business, he owned it and black rioters burned it down. It was sad. The store was his life, means of income and all. He was in his 50s or 60s. Not sure what happened to him.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
South Central LA just happen to have a Korean neighborhood. Not sure what happened to everyone else who was in the area, white, black and Hispanic.
I remember this black guy yelling at people because his corner store got burned down. It was not a franchise business, he owned it and black rioters burned it down. It was sad. The store was his life, means of income and all. He was in his 50s or 60s. Not sure what happened to him.
The majority of Black and Hispanic/Latino residents of LA took to the streets committing crime. The majority of Koreans stayed home and protected their businesses. The Demographics sadly was that two of out three of the minority groups committed more crime than the other. Culture was a big factor.

Koreans came to American and immediately started to build wealth through hard work. Black and Hispanic/Latinos were majority welfare recipients and Democrat voters. Koreans were Republican.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:10:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Roof Koreans are not to be fucked with.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:10:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:12:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Roof Koreans are not to be fucked with.
View Quote
Roof Koreans don't exist anymore like Cuban Conservatives. They've been outbred and replaced with Leftists.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:15:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:17:08 PM EDT
[#29]
When the cops retreat, then who is going to protect you?
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:17:28 PM EDT
[#30]
I'd like one of the old Daewoo's. I've got a DR200, but it doesn't have the factory folder.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:18:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Koreans don't play!
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:18:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Roof Koreans don't exist anymore like Cuban Conservatives. They've been outbred and replaced with Leftists.
View Quote
Truth.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:22:06 PM EDT
[#33]
How fucked up is it that one day you're running your shop and the next day you're involved in a firefight?
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:22:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Great post! Very interesting.

Was wondering as I was reading it: how many looters did the Roof Korean Brigade take out? Looks like they could have done pretty good.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:23:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Roof Koreans don't exist anymore like Cuban Conservatives. They've been outbred and replaced with Leftists.
View Quote
The next generation of Korean-Americans tend to be liberal. They didn't go through the same "I started a business from the ground up after moving from Korea" life. They went to college, got a degree, and started their careers. Almost a silver spoon upbringing.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:23:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Great post!  Those guys didn't have a fuck to give, love it!!
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:24:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great post! Very interesting.

Was wondering as I was reading it: how many looters did the Roof Korean Brigade take out? Looks like they could have done pretty good.
View Quote
Not many.... I believe 65% of the business targeted were Korean Owned
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:24:25 PM EDT
[#38]
I remember the LA riots.  I don't remember anyone actually getting shot with all those bullets flying around.  I do remember the gangs stayed away from those guarded buildings for the most part.  Mostly I remember Reginald Denny, an unarmed truck driver, got pulled from his truck and beat within an inch of his life by thugs.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:24:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Roof Koreans don't exist anymore like Cuban Conservatives. They've been outbred and replaced with Leftists.
View Quote
I married into a family of young cuban conservatives who are friends with yet more young cuban conservatives.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:25:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The next generation of Korean-Americans tend to be liberal. They didn't go through the same "I started a business from the ground up after moving from Korea" life. They went to college, got a degree, and started their careers. Almost a silver spoon upbringing.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Roof Koreans don't exist anymore like Cuban Conservatives. They've been outbred and replaced with Leftists.
The next generation of Korean-Americans tend to be liberal. They didn't go through the same "I started a business from the ground up after moving from Korea" life. They went to college, got a degree, and started their careers. Almost a silver spoon upbringing.
Same as Cuban Americans. Plus they were raised and educated in American Public Schools and the history of both Cuba and the ROK are old stuff that doesn't matter to the current generation.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:26:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Great post and good reminder of why we have the 2nd.
Good Folks, many of them Immigrants actually putting it into practice.
Don't think a similar situation it couldn't happen again today.
The description of LEO's arresting folks in one of the video's for defending their property is frustrating.....
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:27:02 PM EDT
[#42]
I recall the telephone calls from friends and family in LA during the riots, watching it all live on TV as I was home from work that whole week with the flu.  Frantic, hysterically crying friends and family asking me to come rescue them or bring them ANYTHING better than maybe the baseball-bat or steak knife they were armed with at the time.

ALL of them left LA and most, the entire State of California after the riots.  It was a real eye opener.......
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:27:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I married into a family of young cuban conservatives who are friends with yet more young cuban conservatives.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Roof Koreans don't exist anymore like Cuban Conservatives. They've been outbred and replaced with Leftists.
I married into a family of young cuban conservatives who are friends with yet more young cuban conservatives.


They are becoming a minority.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:28:35 PM EDT
[#44]
If that happened today, the LAPD would take a page out of NOPD's playbook and Disarm everyone like they did after Katrina.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:29:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
But just like today, you have Americans defending their property and income with the best they could get their hands on. And the common thing shown is that even then, folks knew and understand that when the fecal matter impacts the oscillator. You're on your own and you have to deal with the problem yourself. Because the government sure won't.
View Quote


This right here.  And as MikeE23666 said, these guys are cool in my book.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:30:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The majority of Black and Hispanic/Latino residents of LA took to the streets committing crime. The majority of Koreans stayed home and protected their businesses. The Demographics sadly was that two of out three of the minority groups committed more crime than the other. Culture was a big factor.

Koreans came to American and immediately started to build wealth through hard work. Black and Hispanic/Latinos were majority welfare recipients and Democrat voters. Koreans were Republican.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
South Central LA just happen to have a Korean neighborhood. Not sure what happened to everyone else who was in the area, white, black and Hispanic.
I remember this black guy yelling at people because his corner store got burned down. It was not a franchise business, he owned it and black rioters burned it down. It was sad. The store was his life, means of income and all. He was in his 50s or 60s. Not sure what happened to him.
The majority of Black and Hispanic/Latino residents of LA took to the streets committing crime. The majority of Koreans stayed home and protected their businesses. The Demographics sadly was that two of out three of the minority groups committed more crime than the other. Culture was a big factor.

Koreans came to American and immediately started to build wealth through hard work. Black and Hispanic/Latinos were majority welfare recipients and Democrat voters. Koreans were Republican.
Before the riots there were tensions between the black and Korean communities due to the Koreans being relative newcomers yet being highly successful and owning many businesses in black neighborhoods.

And this really didn't help:

On March 16, 1991, a year prior to the Los Angeles riots, storekeeper Soon Ja Du physically confronted black ninth-grader Latasha Harlins, grabbing her sweater and backpack when she suspected she had been trying to steal a bottle of orange juice from Empire Liquor, the store Du's family owned in Compton. After Latasha hit Du, she shot her in the back of the head, killing her. (Security tape showed the girl, already dead, was clutching $2 in her hand when investigators arrived.) Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and forced to pay a fine of $500, but not sentenced to any prison time
The surveillance video is pretty damning - Harlins had money and was attempting to pay. When Du screamed at her to leave, she turned to go, then Du shot her in the back of the head.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:32:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Before the riots there were tensions between the black and Korean communities due to the Koreans being relative newcomers yet being highly successful and owning many businesses in black neighborhoods.

And this really didn't help:

The surveillance video is pretty damning - Harlins had money and was attempting to pay. When Du screamed at her to leave, she turned to go, then Du shot her in the back of the head.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are even half of those guns California legal today?  Next time the rioters will be better armed.
South Central LA just happen to have a Korean neighborhood. Not sure what happened to everyone else who was in the area, white, black and Hispanic.
I remember this black guy yelling at people because his corner store got burned down. It was not a franchise business, he owned it and black rioters burned it down. It was sad. The store was his life, means of income and all. He was in his 50s or 60s. Not sure what happened to him.
The majority of Black and Hispanic/Latino residents of LA took to the streets committing crime. The majority of Koreans stayed home and protected their businesses. The Demographics sadly was that two of out three of the minority groups committed more crime than the other. Culture was a big factor.

Koreans came to American and immediately started to build wealth through hard work. Black and Hispanic/Latinos were majority welfare recipients and Democrat voters. Koreans were Republican.
Before the riots there were tensions between the black and Korean communities due to the Koreans being relative newcomers yet being highly successful and owning many businesses in black neighborhoods.

And this really didn't help:

On March 16, 1991, a year prior to the Los Angeles riots, storekeeper Soon Ja Du physically confronted black ninth-grader Latasha Harlins, grabbing her sweater and backpack when she suspected she had been trying to steal a bottle of orange juice from Empire Liquor, the store Du's family owned in Compton. After Latasha hit Du, she shot her in the back of the head, killing her. (Security tape showed the girl, already dead, was clutching $2 in her hand when investigators arrived.) Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and forced to pay a fine of $500, but not sentenced to any prison time
The surveillance video is pretty damning - Harlins had money and was attempting to pay. When Du screamed at her to leave, she turned to go, then Du shot her in the back of the head.
The shooting didn't help. But a lot of it was Leftist Social Leaders in the Black and Latino communities being jealous of the Koreans making money.

They busted their was and didn't rely on handouts.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:34:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wonder if they would be criminally charged today for taking action like Open Carrying guns on their businesses.
View Quote
Some of them were arrested back then. The liberals weren't happy about the roof Koreans but they were a minority with political pull so they got some special treatment. I'd bet if whites banded together to protect their shops we'd still be hearing about all the poor blacks murdered by racists who took the opportunity caused by the chaos to satiate their blood lust by murdering minorities.
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:34:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 4/24/2018 3:35:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Do we have an accurate number of dead?
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