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Posted: 8/28/2017 1:14:58 PM EDT
@bluefalcon tests Wolf Gold .223 55gr FMJ from a 16" Carbine with a 1:9 twist.
 Wolf Gold .223 55gr Full Metal Jacket | Gel Test Watch this ammo tested at The Chopping Block from an 11.5" SBR  .223 gel test: Wolf Gold 55 gr FMJ (SBR test) |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 1:26:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Cool, it shoots really well in my ARs.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 2:10:19 PM EDT
[#2]
My go to 5.56 ammo.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 2:10:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Love that stuff
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Posted: 8/28/2017 3:20:23 PM EDT
[#4]
So tell me why people dont like 193? I dont think I've ever seen it not perform in gel.
It certainly punches above its price would indicate. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 3:58:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So tell me why people dont like 193? I dont think I've ever seen it not perform in gel. It certainly punches above its price would indicate. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 5:54:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because people like to use really short barrels for fantasy scenarios that never happen and short barrels don't help that much for anyway. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So tell me why people dont like 193? I dont think I've ever seen it not perform in gel. It certainly punches above its price would indicate. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. 
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:42:41 PM EDT
[#7]
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I like my hearing, I'll keep a can for my SHTFantasy rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So tell me why people dont like 193? I dont think I've ever seen it not perform in gel. It certainly punches above its price would indicate. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. Shorter barrels are exponentially louder. How much less are they than a 16" w/ no can? I dont have and SBR AR.. so cant run a test myself. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:00:52 PM EDT
[#8]
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Someone needs to do a test that shows the DB reduction of a SBR w/ a can vs an 16" or 20" AR w/ no can. Shorter barrels are exponentially louder. How much less are they than a 16" w/ no can? I dont have and SBR AR.. so cant run a test myself. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 7:20:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Good videos, thanks. I've always wondered how Gold might perform in my short rifles.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:07:16 PM EDT
[#10]
I shot some at a L-3 AR500 plate at 25 yards using a carbine. Just bounced right off.
It's about 10% (300 FPS) slower that Federal M193. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:12:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone needs to do a test that shows the DB reduction of a SBR w/ a can vs an 16" or 20" AR w/ no can. Shorter barrels are exponentially louder. How much less are they than a 16" w/ no can? I dont have and SBR AR.. so cant run a test myself. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:22:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shot some at a L-3 AR500 plate at 25 yards using a carbine. Just bounced right off. It's about 10% (300 FPS) slower that Federal M193. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 10:54:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At 25 yards, LC M193 will splatter on a steel target too. But Wolf Gold is roughly the same speed as Lake City M193. A lot of folks have chronoed it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I shot some at a L-3 AR500 plate at 25 yards using a carbine. Just bounced right off. It's about 10% (300 FPS) slower that Federal M193. About 50/50 on the M193 bouncing at 25 yards (3,180 FPS)... |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 8:05:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Are there any studies correlating the expansion and fragmentation in gel of any rifle ammo to performance in human soft tissue? The only once I know about is the Fackler study that only measured penetration of a specific 9mm pistol load.
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Posted: 8/29/2017 9:09:15 AM EDT
[#15]
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Because people like to use really short barrels for fantasy scenarios that never happen and short barrels don't help that much for anyway. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 9:58:34 AM EDT
[#16]
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So 4 inches makes someone tacticool? Got it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because people like to use really short barrels for fantasy scenarios that never happen and short barrels don't help that much for anyway. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 10:32:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I chrono'd it too and got an average of 2,950 FPS at 25 yards and it just bounced right off... About 50/50 on the M193 bouncing at 25 yards (3,180 FPS)... |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 12:05:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because people like to use really short barrels for fantasy scenarios that never happen and short barrels don't help that much for anyway. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. Which is more likely? An attack at close range or 100 yards away? Who the fuck cares? Realistically, it ain't gonna happen. All scenarios are "fantasy scenarios". SBRs (I personally don't have one yet) are fun toys, and another tool in the "golf bag". There are putters, pitching wedges, sand wedges, irons (long and short range) and wood drivers (extra long range). I have pistols, revolvers, shotguns, lever guns, long range sniper rifles, CQB rifles in multiple calibers and hopefully soon I will have short barreled rifles. It's all good. . Edit to thank @bluefalcon for his excellent videos!! |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 12:36:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not "bouncing off". 
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Posted: 8/29/2017 1:17:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is your purpose besides displaying poor grammar and sentence structure? You pose as an authority on what is proper for what I would assume is lethal self defense. I am quite sure that rounds fired from a short barrel rifle would be effective in neutralizing an attacker. You mention "fantasy scenarios". I submit that you also have "fantasy scenarios" where you need an extra 200fps to save your life from attackers 100 yards away. Which is more likely? An attack at close range or 100 yards away? Who the fuck cares? Realistically, it ain't gonna happen. All scenarios are "fantasy scenarios". . Edit to thank @bluefalcon for his excellent videos!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because people like to use really short barrels for fantasy scenarios that never happen and short barrels don't help that much for anyway. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. Which is more likely? An attack at close range or 100 yards away? Who the fuck cares? Realistically, it ain't gonna happen. All scenarios are "fantasy scenarios". . Edit to thank @bluefalcon for his excellent videos!! In fact in the very next sentence you stated how sure you are of what will neutralize an attacker. Who exactly is posing as an authority here? I like how you say "rounds fired from a short barrel rifle", as if that's enough information. I never said anything about 100 yards away, again that is something that you made up. Maybe stick to things that I actually said instead of taking exception to things you came up with on your own? The fantasy scenario I was referring to, is the one where a shorter barrel somehow saves the day. The exceedingly rare (actually non existent) scenario where an 11" barrel affords you the maneuverability to save your life and the cumbersome 16" behemoth barrel would have slowed you down the point that you got killed. That. Doesn't. Happen. "Needing" an SBR is a fantasy, people just think they're cool. However the reduced velocity and reduced terminal effectiveness of 5.56 fired from a shorter barrel is very real. So you're giving up real performance for a shorter barrel that will literally never help you do anything you can't do with a 16". I hope my purpose and sentence structure are satisfactory to you now lol |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 2:22:20 PM EDT
[#21]
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Yes. It's stupid, it does't help with anything practical at all. However it does reduce the effectiveness of the weapon. And lets be honest that's what matters the most That said, bunch of dudes have been dropped out to 300m with a setup similar as below 
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Posted: 8/29/2017 2:31:33 PM EDT
[#22]
It cuts both ways. The terminal difference isn't going to get you killed. But SBRs are more convenient. Carrying a rifle every day is a pain in the ass. Getting in and out of vehicles with a rifle is a pain in the ass. Doing it with a shorter barrel is less inconvenient.
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Posted: 8/29/2017 2:35:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't "pose as an authority", that is something you made up. In fact in the very next sentence you stated how sure you are of what will neutralize an attacker. Who exactly is posing as an authority here? I like how you say "rounds fired from a short barrel rifle", as if that's enough information. I never said anything about 100 yards away, again that is something that you made up. Maybe stick to things that I actually said instead of taking exception to things you came up with on your own? The fantasy scenario I was referring to, is the one where a shorter barrel somehow saves the day. The exceedingly rare (actually non existent) scenario where an 11" barrel affords you the maneuverability to save your life and the cumbersome 16" behemoth barrel would have slowed you down the point that you got killed. That. Doesn't. Happen. "Needing" an SBR is a fantasy, people just think they're cool. However the reduced velocity and reduced terminal effectiveness of 5.56 fired from a shorter barrel is very real. So you're giving up real performance for a shorter barrel that will literally never help you do anything you can't do with a 16". I hope my purpose and sentence structure are satisfactory to you now lol |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 3:32:13 PM EDT
[#24]
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By your logic... why would anyone ever own a tacticool 16" AR? I mean... what can it do that a 20" can't do better? |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 3:47:58 PM EDT
[#25]
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That actually is his point. He's argued that several times. The post I quoted specifically compared a 16" vs 11" barrel. If the argument was that 20" trumps all, I would have expected 20" to be used in the comparison. |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 3:53:17 PM EDT
[#26]
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By your logic... why would anyone ever own a tacticool 16" AR? I mean... what can it do that a 20" can't do better? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't "pose as an authority", that is something you made up. In fact in the very next sentence you stated how sure you are of what will neutralize an attacker. Who exactly is posing as an authority here? I like how you say "rounds fired from a short barrel rifle", as if that's enough information. I never said anything about 100 yards away, again that is something that you made up. Maybe stick to things that I actually said instead of taking exception to things you came up with on your own? The fantasy scenario I was referring to, is the one where a shorter barrel somehow saves the day. The exceedingly rare (actually non existent) scenario where an 11" barrel affords you the maneuverability to save your life and the cumbersome 16" behemoth barrel would have slowed you down the point that you got killed. That. Doesn't. Happen. "Needing" an SBR is a fantasy, people just think they're cool. However the reduced velocity and reduced terminal effectiveness of 5.56 fired from a shorter barrel is very real. So you're giving up real performance for a shorter barrel that will literally never help you do anything you can't do with a 16". I hope my purpose and sentence structure are satisfactory to you now lol |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#27]
For some of us that are only intending to use our suppressed SBR instead of a shotgun it is more compact and I think easier to move around with than one of my longer ARs would be with a can on them. I used the recently posted SBR velocity posts to choose my go to ammo and since I do not intend to shoot it farther than 10-15 yards and there are gel testing videos of said ammo performing sufficiently I don't think I am giving anything up to a longer barrel.
This is only for short range use as other than that I would of course choose a longer barrel. If I were law enforcement and had unknown engagement ranges I would opt for a 16" barrel. Yes with the can on my sbr is about the same overall length as one of my 16" rifles but it sure is a hell of a lot quieter. |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 11:45:24 PM EDT
[#28]
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Exactly. Soooo... Why use a 20" AR indoors? It's difficult going around doors and corners. Maybe a short barrel is useful if you aren't handicapped by caliber choices. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 7:22:20 AM EDT
[#29]
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Exactly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't "pose as an authority", that is something you made up. In fact in the very next sentence you stated how sure you are of what will neutralize an attacker. Who exactly is posing as an authority here? I like how you say "rounds fired from a short barrel rifle", as if that's enough information. I never said anything about 100 yards away, again that is something that you made up. Maybe stick to things that I actually said instead of taking exception to things you came up with on your own? The fantasy scenario I was referring to, is the one where a shorter barrel somehow saves the day. The exceedingly rare (actually non existent) scenario where an 11" barrel affords you the maneuverability to save your life and the cumbersome 16" behemoth barrel would have slowed you down the point that you got killed. That. Doesn't. Happen. "Needing" an SBR is a fantasy, people just think they're cool. However the reduced velocity and reduced terminal effectiveness of 5.56 fired from a shorter barrel is very real. So you're giving up real performance for a shorter barrel that will literally never help you do anything you can't do with a 16". I hope my purpose and sentence structure are satisfactory to you now lol Unless you're saying that an SBR is ineffective to stop the threat (which is a high bar to leap, and which you haven't done), then they're all effective enough. Every weapon is a trade between convenience and effectiveness. Are some more effective than others? Of course. Are the ones we're discussing all effective enough? Of course. Tacticool = stupid term used to deride those things that don't pass my arbitrary standard of what is "necessary." |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:05:30 AM EDT
[#30]
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I'm planning on my 8" SBR being my HD weapon. It's .300 blk so it doesn't suffer as much for such a short barrel. I've practiced room clearing with it vs. a 16" barreled carbine. It's far easier to use. It's as maneuverable as a pistol, with far more accuracy and power. Soooo... Why use a 20" AR indoors? It's difficult going around doors and corners. Maybe a short barrel is useful if you aren't handicapped by caliber choices. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Exactly. Soooo... Why use a 20" AR indoors? It's difficult going around doors and corners. Maybe a short barrel is useful if you aren't handicapped by caliber choices. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:09:33 AM EDT
[#31]
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LOL I'm not sure whats so "LOL" about that comment Not a bunch of guys kicking doors with 20" ARs given the choice of something else that's smaller. I can assure you it would be easier to move in a house with my little MP5K than it would be my 21" FAL |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:09:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And what can a 20" AR do that a 7.62x51 SCAR can't do better? And what can a 7.62x51 SCAR do that 21" FAL do better? Where does it end? Do we have to hear from the M1 Garand guys? The 45-70 Govt guys? Unless you're saying that an SBR is ineffective to stop the threat (which is a high bar to leap, and which you haven't done), then they're all effective enough. Every weapon is a trade between convenience and effectiveness. Are some more effective than others? Of course. Are the ones we're discussing all effective enough? Of course. Tacticool = stupid term used to deride those things that don't pass my arbitrary standard of what is "necessary." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't "pose as an authority", that is something you made up. In fact in the very next sentence you stated how sure you are of what will neutralize an attacker. Who exactly is posing as an authority here? I like how you say "rounds fired from a short barrel rifle", as if that's enough information. I never said anything about 100 yards away, again that is something that you made up. Maybe stick to things that I actually said instead of taking exception to things you came up with on your own? The fantasy scenario I was referring to, is the one where a shorter barrel somehow saves the day. The exceedingly rare (actually non existent) scenario where an 11" barrel affords you the maneuverability to save your life and the cumbersome 16" behemoth barrel would have slowed you down the point that you got killed. That. Doesn't. Happen. "Needing" an SBR is a fantasy, people just think they're cool. However the reduced velocity and reduced terminal effectiveness of 5.56 fired from a shorter barrel is very real. So you're giving up real performance for a shorter barrel that will literally never help you do anything you can't do with a 16". I hope my purpose and sentence structure are satisfactory to you now lol Unless you're saying that an SBR is ineffective to stop the threat (which is a high bar to leap, and which you haven't done), then they're all effective enough. Every weapon is a trade between convenience and effectiveness. Are some more effective than others? Of course. Are the ones we're discussing all effective enough? Of course. Tacticool = stupid term used to deride those things that don't pass my arbitrary standard of what is "necessary." If people would just admit they think SBR's look cool (they do) and they are willing to give up some performance for looks I wouldn't care. But this whole "I need mah short barrel or I can't clear my house" is BS. Tacticool = things you don't need because you think the cool guys have them. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:16:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Just curious, were you a SEAL or Ranger? Because with all your snobbish I am smarter than all you dumb asses out there you must have some serious credentials.
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:17:32 AM EDT
[#34]
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A smaller weapon is easier to use indoors and in crowded spaces. I'm not sure whats so "LOL" about that comment Not a bunch of guys kicking doors with 20" ARs given the choice of something else that's smaller. I can assure you it would be easier to move in a house with my little MP5K than it would be my 21" FAL Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL I'm not sure whats so "LOL" about that comment Not a bunch of guys kicking doors with 20" ARs given the choice of something else that's smaller. I can assure you it would be easier to move in a house with my little MP5K than it would be my 21" FAL Tests like this, and threads like this are geared toward home defense users. And it's very "LOL" for someone to think they NEED an SBR at home or they will be ineffective. I'll say it again since it appears my actual point is being missed. Having a short barrel for sure reduces the effectiveness of 5.56, there is no maybe. However, having a short barrel doesn't help 99.99% of HD users get something done they couldn't otherwise with a longer barrel as far as maneuverability. What I'm saying is the trade off is disproportionate. Of course a shorter barrel is easier to swing around...so what? A 22lr has less recoil and follow up shots are much better, but you wouldn't trade off the effectiveness of 5.56 just to get that, because it's a bad trade. Trading 4-5" of barrel on a 5.56 AR to "maneuver" better is a bad trade. If you really think you're in that .1% that NEEDS a short barrel, more power to you. But you're probably not. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:18:03 AM EDT
[#35]
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Just curious, were you a SEAL or Ranger? Because with all your snobbish I am smarter than all you dumb asses out there you must have some serious credentials. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:21:25 AM EDT
[#36]
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And how many in this thread kick in doors? Really? And if they are, I sure as fuck hope they aren't going to us YouTube creators for ammo tests. Tests like this, and threads like this are geared toward home defense users. And it's very "LOL" for someone to think they NEED an SBR at home or they will be ineffective. I'll say it again since it appears my actual point is being missed. Having a short barrel for sure reduces the effectiveness of 5.56, there is no maybe. However, having a short barrel doesn't help 99.99% of HD users get something done they couldn't otherwise with a longer barrel as far as maneuverability. What I'm saying is the trade off is disproportionate. Of course a shorter barrel is easier to swing around...so what? A 22lr has less recoil and follow up shots are much better, but you wouldn't trade off the effectiveness of 5.56 just to get that, because it's a bad trade. Trading 4-5" of barrel on a 5.56 AR to "maneuver" better is a bad trade. If you really think you're in that .1% that NEEDS a short barrel, more power to you. But you're probably not. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:32:45 AM EDT
[#37]
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So what youre saying is you don't have a SBR? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And how many in this thread kick in doors? Really? And if they are, I sure as fuck hope they aren't going to us YouTube creators for ammo tests. Tests like this, and threads like this are geared toward home defense users. And it's very "LOL" for someone to think they NEED an SBR at home or they will be ineffective. I'll say it again since it appears my actual point is being missed. Having a short barrel for sure reduces the effectiveness of 5.56, there is no maybe. However, having a short barrel doesn't help 99.99% of HD users get something done they couldn't otherwise with a longer barrel as far as maneuverability. What I'm saying is the trade off is disproportionate. Of course a shorter barrel is easier to swing around...so what? A 22lr has less recoil and follow up shots are much better, but you wouldn't trade off the effectiveness of 5.56 just to get that, because it's a bad trade. Trading 4-5" of barrel on a 5.56 AR to "maneuver" better is a bad trade. If you really think you're in that .1% that NEEDS a short barrel, more power to you. But you're probably not. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:46:05 AM EDT
[#38]
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Not in 5.56, I do have a pistol AR in 300blk. Its more about being able to move around quickly in tight quarters without bumping into shit. Being able to keep it shouldered and able to sight a target while moving around. That's not something I can do with my full size FAL, but can my smaller SBRs You got SF guys that have been dropping dudes with 10.x" guns for a long time so they do work I get what youre saying, don't get me wrong. But denying the benefits that a SBR has in a HD scenario I don't understand. And yes, as I stated above, they look a fuck ton cooler |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 11:02:37 AM EDT
[#39]
What you're both missing is that the differences on both sides really aren't that important. Yes, an SBR handles a little better. But most of us are putting a can on our SBR and then it's back to being about the same length as a 16" carbine. Yes, a 20" rifle had better external and terminal ballistics and will punch steel armor with the right amount at longer distances. But 77gr TMK, 50gr TSX, and 62gr Fusion will positively fuck someone up from a 10" barrel and the amount of bonus tissue damage produced from a 20" tube is unlikely to make a difference in a fight.
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Posted: 8/30/2017 11:11:27 AM EDT
[#40]
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What you're both missing is that the differences on both sides really aren't that important. Yes, an SBR handles a little better. But most of us are putting a can on our SBR and then it's back to being about the same length as a 16" carbine. Yes, a 20" rifle had better external and terminal ballistics and will punch steel armor with the right amount at longer distances. But 77gr TMK, 50gr TSX, and 62gr Fusion will positively fuck someone up from a 10" barrel and the amount of bonus tissue damage produced from a 20" tube is unlikely to make a difference in a fight. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 11:27:25 AM EDT
[#41]
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Is worth more than the little bit you can swing around a doorway better with a shorter barrel. I mean I can literally walk down my hallways and prove how it would be easier to use a small weapon vs a large one. But I digress. You use your long ones. Ill use my short ones and well all be happy |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 11:51:11 AM EDT
[#42]
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Is worth more than the little bit you can swing around a doorway better with a shorter barrel. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 12:37:29 PM EDT
[#43]
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Value statements are subjective. Objectively speaking, the difference is small. If you value the sight terminal advantage at close range, that's fine. If something else values the slight handling advantage, that's also rational. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is worth more than the little bit you can swing around a doorway better with a shorter barrel. What is the % chance that a longer barrel will have a real effect on your ability to stop a threat because you can't maneuver? That sounds like it's a lot more subjective to me. Like I said, you're sacrificing a real (measurable) loss in effectiveness, for some intangible good feeling about moving around quicker. Even though it may be true that you can run around your house faster with an SBR the trade off is bad, and the instance where you "lose" because your barrel was too long just doesn't exist. This reminds me of "what if the round exits the bad guy after a COM hit and continues on to hit an innocent bystander". It just doesn't happen. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 12:42:05 PM EDT
[#44]
So your whole thesis is on one round? Some of us use other ammo like Speer Gold Dot, Fusion MSR or similar.
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Posted: 8/30/2017 12:48:41 PM EDT
[#45]
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So your whole thesis is on one round? Some of us use other ammo like Speer Gold Dot, Fusion MSR or similar. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 1:07:05 PM EDT
[#46]
You're right, I went with that round as that is the one you referenced. It doesn't matter that there is plenty of evidence of that a shorter barrel is often used by those who do stuff like get into danger. Isn't the current M4 issued with a 14.5" or so barrel? Dang, they should ask you for advice as all of those in the military are sure confused. Could the reason be that they like that it is more maneuverable than a longer barrel when they enter buildings not to mention getting in and out of vehicles?
I am not in the military but maybe someone that is or has been can comment. I do see that the marine corp agree with the longer barrel though. So I guess you are not all wrong. 
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Posted: 8/30/2017 1:55:55 PM EDT
[#47]
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You're right, I went with that round as that is the one you referenced. It doesn't matter that there is plenty of evidence of that a shorter barrel is often used by those who do stuff like get into danger. Isn't the current M4 issued with a 14.5" or so barrel? Dang, they should ask you for advice as all of those in the military are sure confused. Could the reason be that they like that it is more maneuverable than a longer barrel when they enter buildings not to mention getting in and out of vehicles? I am not in the military but maybe someone that is or has been can comment. I do see that the marine corp agree with the longer barrel though. So I guess you are not all wrong. That's pretty funny that you brought up the Military and then noted that the face shooters use 20" barrels lol |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 2:06:03 PM EDT
[#48]
I can only speak on behalf of myself. But the indoor maneuverability difference between a 20" suppressed rifle and a 10.5" suppressed SBR has quantifiable value.
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Posted: 8/30/2017 2:54:41 PM EDT
[#49]
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Do you get in and out of vehicles with people shooting at you often? Like I said, the scenarios where the people posting in this thread NEED a shorter barrel are pure fantasy. That's pretty funny that you brought up the Military and then noted that the face shooters use 20" barrels lol |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 4:24:18 PM EDT
[#50]
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Someone needs to do a test that shows the DB reduction of a SBR w/ a can vs an 16" or 20" AR w/ no can. Shorter barrels are exponentially louder. How much less are they than a 16" w/ no can? I dont have and SBR AR.. so cant run a test myself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So tell me why people dont like 193? I dont think I've ever seen it not perform in gel. It certainly punches above its price would indicate. Short barrels are tacticool and M193 isn't as good when you slow it down, although it is still very good. Shorter barrels are exponentially louder. How much less are they than a 16" w/ no can? I dont have and SBR AR.. so cant run a test myself. 
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